Amanda Knox should be sentenced to life, say prosecutors

[alp227]

Source: The Guardian

Prosecutors seeking to uphold Amanda Knox's murder conviction have asked for her sentence to be increased to life – and for her to spend six months in daytime solitary confinement.

Giancarlo Costagliola said the court should also raise the sentence passed on her former boyfriend, Italian Raffaele Sollecito, to life with two months in solitary. Exploiting what has always been regarded as a weakness of the case against them, he said the lack of a motive in the killing of British student Meredith Kercher justified the harshest sentence available under Italian law.

His colleague, Manuela Comodi, earlier said that Knox, 24, and Sollecito, 27, had "killed for nothing". They were given 26 and 25 years respectively at their trial in 2009 but with good behaviour could expect to get out of jail much sooner. Life imprisonment in Italy is intended to keep prisoners inside for at least 26 years, though some are released earlier.

Knox sat motionless as the prosecution request was read out, pressing her lips against her hands. Her father, Curt Knox, said his daughter had been prepared for the development, which the prosecution had earlier signalled in a document submitted to the court.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/24/amanda-knox-life-prosecutors

---

Question: which jurisdictions in the US allow for longer re-sentencing on appeal? Or does that violate the 5th amendment? Although Italy repealed death penalty in 1948 (anyone still thinking about Troy Davis?), apparently other countries allow harsher re-sentencing instead.

[sharp_stick]

1. The Italian justice system

is a real mess. It's been a corrupt mass of garbage for years and I don't see it getting any better any time in the near future. All you have to do is walk down the street in Naples to see just how ugly it is there.

[Suich]

2. I've never been to Italy but have been following the case.

What do you see on the streets of Naples?

:shrug:

[sharp_stick]

18. I was there about 8 months ago

a friend that I went to grad school with has a bunch of family there. The entire city is controlled by the Camorra and if you don't follow the rules properly the police won't do a lot to help you out.

Every year or so the city Government tries to exert a bit of control and surprise surprise there's a massive garbage strike at the same time.

[msanthrope]

22. What does the Camorra in Naples have to do with a Perugia courtroom? nt

[rsmith6621]

3. It Is Just Plain FUCKED UP....

... I really believe that a US Diplomatic team should get involved and at worse negotiate her and her boyfriends release with the understanding they never enter Italy again....

....This should make us hear in the states appreciate our faulted system more.

[harmonicon]

5. What?!

I'd rather have the murderers locked up, thank you very much.

[pnwmom]

38. You keep saying that, but you haven't offered any evidence

except the fact that they were found guilty in a first trial, which is actually a preliminary decision until the end of the automatic second trial -- which is ongoing. Statistically speaking, in Italy there is a 50/50 chance that the results of the first trial will be overturned.

If there is real justice in Perugia, this will be one of those cases. No physical evidence or reliable DNA; no reliable witnesses (unless you like police informant heroin addicts); no motive; no weapon -- all adds up to an overwhelming amount of reasonable doubt -- the same standard we use here.

[harmonicon]

39. No evidence except guilt in an internationally recognized court system.

How ignorant of me. Of course the court of US public opinion is more valid. Give me a fucking break.

[pnwmom]

45. No. She has NOT been convicted yet. You are ignorant of that fact.

In Italy, a defendant is not considered convicted until after the verdict of the second, appeals trial.

You are assuming the appeals trial will uphold the action of the preliminary trial, even though that only happens half the time.

[COLGATE4]

9. What makes you think the Italians would ever consider an idea

like that? Because we are 'Merkans???

[msanthrope]

16. But for Knox's PR firm bemoaning the Italian justice system, do you you have any

specific complaint?

[COLGATE4]

7. Would you share your insights into the Italian justice system?

[pnwmom]

28. Mignini is a rogue prosecutor, like Nifong of the Duke lacrosse case.

I hope.

But if the appeals court also finds against Amanda and Raffaele, I will have serious doubts about the Italian justice system.

[toopers]

47. One obvious difference between US and Italian systems . . .

is that a prosecutor like Nifong loses his job, gets disbarred, and faces further civil and criminal punishment for his actions. In Italy a prosecutor of the same ilk as Nifong (Mignini) gets reprimanded and is later commended for his service. Before forming an opinion on the Knox case you should read the book "The Monster of Florence". It is a good and fast read about a serial murder case that Mignini was the lead prosecutor.

[pnwmom]

51. I've already formed the opinion that the only just result

will be a finding of not guilty. But, yes, that book is one on my list.

[toopers]

52. I agree . . .

I believe that Knox and her boy friend are innocent. The prosecutor is trying to make a name for himself again.

[Odin2005]

4. This whole thing is a disgraceful anti-American witch-hunt.

[harun]

6. +1

[msanthrope]

19. Odin, I respect you. So I will only suggest that you read up on Knox's PR

firm and how her parents launched not an Italian legal defense, but an American PR campaign that was designed to exert pressure.

After reading the report of the judge in this case, I have no doubt of her guilt. The DNA, for all the defense's posturing, is damning, as is the Luminol.

And I have no doubt of her utter racism, either....her victim was mixed race, and she first blamed the murder on an innocent African, who lost his business....

[pnwmom]

25. You only refer to the Massei report of two years ago. There has been a lengthy appeal since then.

And the appeals trial has changed everything. Judge Massei himself wrote in the report that the DNA evidence underpinned the rest of the case. Well, that evidence has been completely discredited.

During the original trial, Judge Massei wouldn't allow the defense to review the raw DNA files from which the police lab investigator drew her conclusions. (The same type of files which the prosecutors also tried to withhold in the Duke lacrosse false rape case.) Since that time, the new judge, who was appointed to handle the appeal, decided to appoint two independent forensic experts from the University of Rome. Those investigators wrote their own report which completely debunked the police lab's work. The only two pieces of physical evidence previously thought to link Amanda and Raffaele to the murder have now been completely discredited.

Also, during the appeal, the testimony of the only "eyewitness" turned out to be worthless -- he was a heroin addict and under the influence that very night., Also, he couldn't keep his nights straight. But IF anyone chose to believe him, he put Amanda and Raffaele OUTSIDE the cottage till 11:30 pm -- and the murder took place, according to evidence from the coroner's report, by 9:30.

So what are the prosecutors left with? Not a single bit of physical evidence that puts either Amanda or Raffaele inside the room where the murder took place. But the third defendant (who had no prior connection to either of the other two and spoke no English) had a history of bringing knives to his burglaries, left semen inside the victim, handprints, fingerprints and other physical evidence in the room; and stool in the toilet. The police collected dozens of pieces of physical evidence connected to Rudy Ruede in the room and not a single piece related to Amanda Knox. The only item connected to her boyfriend Raffaele -- according to your previously cited Massei report -- was a bra clasp. The independent experts appointed by the judge (not the defense) said there was so much contamination on the clasp -- so many alleles -- that almost any profile could have been found on it, including the JUDGE'S.

Just as in the Duke lacrosse case, this case has centered around a grandstanding prosecutor. And there is enough reasonable doubt to fly a 747 through. The only just outcome will be the immediate release of Amanda and Raffaele.

[msanthrope]

20. DUPE

[pnwmom]

24. Agreed. n/t

[abelenkpe]

44. +1000 nt

[McCamy Taylor]

8. Italy has a motive for framing an American. If the perp is Italian it hurts their tourist business.

Suggestion for those who care---boycott Italy until the woman comes home. Tourism is huge business in Italy. They will notice.

I mean, do you really want to spend your hard earned money in a country that will do things like this to foreigners just because they are foreign?

[dipsydoodle]

11. She wasn't a tourist herself

apart from which the Italians may well prefer tourists from other countries anyway. Even if it had been an Italian responsible its hardly likely to have any effect on their level of tourism.

[pnwmom]

29. She was an American, and that made her an easy target.

The Universities in Perugia have seen a decline in students from both the U.S. and Britain. There are plenty of other places for students to study.

[jberryhill]

13. I spend my money in a country like that every day /nt

[pnwmom]

30. R.I.P. Troy Davis.

But Amanda and Raffaele are also innocent.

[bitchkitty]

10. Bluster.

I think, I hope, that she's going to go free.

[harmonicon]

14. Please say that to the family members of who she killed. nt.

[bitchkitty]

23. She didn't kill Meredith. n/t

[harmonicon]

33. Cute.

The justice system disagrees. And what do the families of all of those she's harmed think? Do they agree with you, or do they just not get a say in this?

[pnwmom]

37. Wrong. The justice system in Italy hasn't made a final decision in this case.

In Italy, defendants aren't considered to be adjudged guilty until after the first appeal -- which is still ongoing. Then there is still a possible third appeal before the Supreme Court.

As to the families of victims, no, in a just system they do not "get a say in this." They are not in a position, in the midst of their grief, to view the evidence and the defendants objectively. That is why in the United States, Italy, and other first world countries, we never put family members on juries.

In this case, there is another complicating factor. The family, in a civil suit conducted alongside the criminal trial (and with the same jury) already won millions in damages from the defendants -- which they will never collect if the sole murderer turns out to be the penniless burglar Guede. The attorney also won't get his cut -- which is no doubt why he has been encouraging them to believe in this trumped up case.

[bitchkitty]

43. Oh, and of course,

the justice system in Italy is KNOWN for its fairness and efficiency. And for fuck's sake, stop trying to guilt trip me with the family, that's really stupid.

I do not believe that she killed Meredith.

[pnwmom]

27. There is NO evidence that she killed anyone.

No physical evidence linking her to the murder room.
No reliable witnesses placing her at the scene. (The only witness was a heroin user who couldn't keep his times or dates straight.)
No real confession (after an overnight interrogation she signed a statement agreeing to have been in the kitchen while Patrick was with Meredith -- but she withdrew the statement within a few hours -- and the Italian Supreme Court ruled that it was inadmissible because she wasn't allowed an attorney or a translator.)
No murder weapon. (The knife from the kitchen didn't match the wounds OR the imprint in in blood that the murder knife left on a sheet)
No "bloody footprints." (Footprints in the hall were tested NEGATIVE for blood.)
No motive. (But the prosecutor says that because she had no motive, her sentence should be increased to life in prison).

[harmonicon]

32. HAHAHAHA!!!!

Oh, fuck!! You vs. a first-world country's justice system!! Of course THEY got it wrong!!

[teknomanzer]

34. Evidently you believe in the infallibility of the Italian justice system...

Please enlighten us by telling us how the great Italian justice system is immune to petty human prejudices and overzealous prosecutors.

[Darth_Kitten]

41. They aren't executing black males, are they?

No system is perfect. :sarcasm:

[pnwmom]

35. That shows how little you know about Italy's justice system

or our own.

In Italy, fully half of the people who are convicted in the first trial are either freed or given reduced sentences in their second, appeals trial. (Which is an a new trial with new evidence, unlike in the U.S.)

But as to first world justice systems, we live in one, too. And we just got it very wrong, with the execution of Troy Davis.

[harmonicon]

40. Umm.... no, you don't live in a first world justice system.

I do, here in the UK. Any country with capital punishment is not part of the first world - sorry!

I know that your many degrees in international law of course are what inform your opinions and not your gullibility in the face of a bullshit PR stunt. You know who else is innocent? Andy Lindo. Do you know how I know that? Because he said so. Conviction be damned.

[pnwmom]

46. Okay, I gotcha. You're a big tabloid reader. That explains it. n/t

[harmonicon]

48. I've never read a tabloid. Sorry.

You seem to be the one getting your information from them.

[pnwmom]

50. Yeah, right. n/t

[devilgrrl]

12. This couldn't be happening to a nicer person

:popcorn:

[pnwmom]

31. Amanda's niceness was part of what got her into trouble.

Unlike the Italian and British girls, she didn't hire an attorney or quickly leave the country. She hung around and tried to help the police. It never dawned on her, in her innocence, that anyone would imagine that she could be a Satanic-ritual-murderer.

[maxsolomon]

56. Care to share what you know of Amanda Knox personally?

aside from the character assassination in the european tabloids?

from Seattle, she looks remarkably like most nice college girls from this town - does well in school, goes to yoga classes, likes to smoke pot, likes to have sex with her boyfriend, wants to study overseas. barely anyone in this town worships JESUS, let alone the devil.

whether she's "nice" or not nice, or weird, or reacts differently to stress than british girls has shit to do with this case.

[msanthrope]

15. All US jurisdictions allow for longer sentencing on appeal. Eye, mote, beam.

Ask Conrad Black....

[pnwmom]

36. We do not have to have a perfect justice system to call for justice

everywhere. Our justice system failed in the case of Troy Davis and others. It almost failed in the case of the Duke lacrosse false rape case, with a similar grandstanding prosecutor. That doesn't mean that Amanda and Raffaele aren't innocent and that anyone who cares isn't justified -- based on the extensive evidence of the burglar Rudy Guede's guilt and their innocence -- in calling for the students' release.

[devils chaplain]

17. I don't like sensationalized stories...

... but now I kinda wish I knew enough about this story to know whether or not it's probable that she's truly guilty.

[msanthrope]

21. The judge in the case put out a report of the evidence that's pretty damming.

It's called the Massei Report. If you can't read Italian, I am sure you can find in online, translated.

[pnwmom]

26. Are you unaware that there is a new judge in the appeals trial

Though the first judge, Massei, the one who wrote the long report, wouldn't allow the defense to even review the raw DNA files (which the police lab used to claim that the kitchen knife had Amanda's DNA and the bra clasp had been touched by Raffaele), the new judge, Hellman, appointed his own experts from the University of Rome. They wrote a scathing report, backed up by videotaped evidence, concluding that the police lab's work was unreliable and that neither item can be said to contain the DNA of the defendants.

Massei himself said that this DNA evidence was KEY to the case. He also acknowledged, contrary to tabloid reports, that there was no "mixed blood" in the bathroom. Only Meredith's blood plus DNA skin cells from Amanda that were the normal result of her using the bathroom. Amanda left no physical evidence in the murder room and had no cuts on her body. Neither did her boyfriend Raffaele. Rudy Guede left dozens of pieces of evidence in the murder room and had multiple cuts on his body when the police found him later. He was clearly the only murderer and the real travesty of this case is that he was only sentenced to 16 years and will probably be released in half that time.

[jman0]

42. She looks guilty from where i'm sitting

General and circumstantial evidence:

- Alibis changed several times.
- Inconsistencies alibis, which still remain.
- Alibis contradicted by 3 independent witnesses, and by analysis of computer hard drive.
- Witness saw them both outside cottage with knives that night.
- Cell phones switched off early in evening, contrary to normal habits.
- Break-in was faked, nobody but Knox and Sollecito had a motive.
- Washing machine was run on morning after murder, and cleanup attempted long after Guede had fled.
- Victim's injuries point to more than one attacker, as do footprints and witness hearing running feet.
- Highly improbable story of Knox showering in house on morning after murder, unworried by broken window, open door, blood stains, unflushed toilet.
- Lie by Sollecito about phone call from father that evening.
- Lie by Sollecito about Meredith being pricked with knife while cooking.
- Lie about what time they called the Carabanieri.
- Knox had knowledge about manner of victim's death even before the police knew.
- False accusation by Knox against Patrick. Knox told mother shortly afterwards that Patrick was innocent, but neither made any attempt to tell police or lawyers.
- Knox may have been on bad terms with victim.

Forensic evidence:

- Knife with victim's DNA in Sollecito's apartment.
- Sollectio's DNA on victims bra, possibly Knox's DNA on victim's bra.
- Knox's blood mixed with victim's blood: in bathroom (3 places), hallway, room with faked break-in.
- Footprints in blood compatible with Knox in hallway, cleaned after murder, revealed with luminol.
- Footprint in victim's blood compatible with Sollecito on bathmat.
- Print of woman's shoe compatible with Knox's shoe size (not victim's) under victim's body.
- A number of forensic experts called by the defence were unable to dent the prosecution case.

[pnwmom]

49. You're repeating lies.

- Alibis changed several times.
- Inconsistencies alibis, which still remain.
She did not change her alibi. The only inconsistency occurred when after an overnight questioning, without an attorney or translator, she broke down and said she could "imagine" having been in the kitchen while Patrick was in the kitchen. A few hours later she withdrew the statement. Other than that, she has consistently, repeatedly, said she was with Raffaele at his apartment.

- Alibis contradicted by 3 independent witnesses, and by analysis of computer hard drive.
The independent witnesses were all strongly discredited in the appeals trial. One was a heroin user who used heroin that night -- and got the dates wrong. One was a deaf and mentally ill woman whose claim to have heard a scream was internally contradictory.

The police "accidentally" destroyed 4 computer hard drives, which makes it impossible to verify the police claims or for Amanda and Raffaele to defend themselves on this matter.

- Witness saw them both outside cottage with knives that night.

No credible witness saw them outside with knives. Apparently you believe heroin users who routinely offer testimony for the police in murder cases.

- Cell phones switched off early in evening, contrary to normal habits.

Oh yeah -- not wanting to be interrupted when you're alone together makes you a murderer. (If they didn't want to be traced by their cell phones, all they had to do was leave them at home.)

- Break-in was faked, nobody but Knox and Sollecito had a motive.

No evidence that the break in was faked, unless you think that glass could get lodged in the outside panes of windows by throwing a rock through the inside; and unless you think no young woman ever dropped dirty clothes on the floor, on which broken glass could fall.
Miginini, the prosecutor, said in his closing statements that Knox and Sollecito had NO motive, and so they deserved a life sentence. Do you know something he doesn't?

- Washing machine was run on morning after murder, and cleanup attempted long after Guede had fled.

No evidence of clean-up was presented in court. This is a lie.

- Victim's injuries point to more than one attacker, as do footprints and witness hearing running feet.

Rudy Guede is a strong man with a history of knife wielding -- he could easily have overpowered Meredith on his own -- as many men have overpowered smaller women. There were no bloody footprints in the hall -- they were tested NEGATIVE for blood; and the only bloody footprints or handprints in the murder room belonged to the real murderer, Rudy Guede. The witness who claimed to have heard running feet turned out to be deaf. And running feet wouldn't implicate anyone in particular.

- Highly improbable story of Knox showering in house on morning after murder, unworried by broken window, open door, blood stains, unflushed toilet.

Highly improbable and a lie. Videotapes of the bathroom which anyone can see online show that there is virtually no visible blood in the bathroom -- the bathroom looks so clean that the police themselves had no idea that anything had happened -- which is why they at first refused to break down Meredith's door. As to the broken window and the unflushed toiled, why would Amanda have checked her other roommates rooms and bathroom before taking a shower in her own? And the door had had a problem for a while -- that hadn't been keeping anyone from taking showers.

- Lie by Sollecito about phone call from father that evening.

He was smoking marijuana that evening -- so he was confused about the time when questioned the next day. This doesn't make him a murderer.

- Lie by Sollecito about Meredith being pricked with knife while cooking.

The police were insisting, falsely, that Meredith's blood was on the knife. (There was no blood and no DNA either, according to the court appointed experts.) He was speculating about how it could have gotten there.

- Lie about what time they called the Carabanieri.

No, there were no lies about the time. This was proven in the first trial.

- Knox had knowledge about manner of victim's death even before the police knew.

Knox had knowledge that turned out to be INCORRECT -- because she was just going by things she was overhearing the other girls say.

- False accusation by Knox against Patrick. Knox told mother shortly afterwards that Patrick was innocent, but neither made any attempt to tell police or lawyers.

Knox never accused Patrick of anything, which you would know if you read her statement. After 4 and a half days of questioning leading to an overnight, tag team interrogation without an attorney or a translator, she finally signed a statement saying that she could imagine having been in the kitchen with her hands over her ears while Patrick was with Meredith in the bedroom. A few hours later, she herself WITHDREW the statement, saying that she didn't think it was right and no one should rely on it.

- Knox may have been on bad terms with victim.
They had been roommates for only 3 weeks. No evidence was presented in court that Amanda had ever said anything negative about her roommate.

Forensic evidence:

- Knife with victim's DNA in Sollecito's apartment.

Court appointed experts said that there was rye flour on the knife, not the victim's DNA.

- Sollectio's DNA on victims bra, possibly Knox's DNA on victim's bra.

The court appointed experts said there was so much contamination on the victim's bra clasp -- which had been kicked around the room for 6 weeks, that a profile of virtually anyone could be found among the alleles, including the JUDGE himself.

- Knox's blood mixed with victim's blood: in bathroom (3 places), hallway, room with faked break-in.

Another lie. Knox had no cuts on her body. Her blood wasn't mixed with Meredith's. Meredith's blood dropped in the bathroom where Amanda's skin DNA was naturally scattered around -- since she LIVED there.

- Footprints in blood compatible with Knox in hallway, cleaned after murder, revealed with laminal.

Another lie. The laminal revealed footprints were then specifically tested for blood, with a NEGATIVE result. The police lab originally withheld this result from the court, but finally acknowledged this in the first trial.


- Footprint in victim's blood compatible with Sollecito on bathmat.
That smear would have been compatible with virtually anyone, including the actual murderer, Rudy Guede, and the other roommates. (Whose footprints were never taken by the police.)

- Print of woman's shoe compatible with Knox's shoe size (not victim's) under victim's body.

That print was proven to clearly match not Knox's shoe, but Rudy Guede's.
- A number of forensic experts called by the defence were unable to dent the prosecution case.

[toopers]

54. You beat me to it!

[toopers]

53. Just a couple of points . . .

The bra was not initially collected as evidence and actually was moved around the apartment before it was collected. So, it is contaminated evidence and could easily have come in contact with something else in the apartment that contained Sollecito's and Knox's DNA. During the appeal a court appointed forensic expert testified that there was not enough DNA on the bra clasp to retest.

The knife blade collected at Sollecito's apartment which supposedly had Kercher's blood on it was inconsistent with the wounds left on Kercher. As well, the court appointed DNA expert testified that there was no DNA evidence on the knife. Further, the expert testified that it would have been just about impossible to clean the knife completely of DNA.

The footprint under the victims body could not be associated with any of the accused, or the victim.

Knox was interrogated in Italian and had to sign a statement that was written in Italian. She is not fluent in Italian. As well, there were accusations of prosecutor misconduct related to abuse of Amanda Knox while in custody and during the initial interrogation/questioning. An Italian court has since found that Knox's rights were violated because she was not read her legal rights, appointed an attorney, or provided an interpreter during the interrogation.

The evidence of "bloody foot prints" presented by the prosecution was debunked by the defense. There were actually two test done on the foot prints -- the luminol test and test to detect the presence of blood. Any evidence that had DNA remnance did not test positive for blood, so the cleaned bloody foot prints claimed by the prosecution were not actually bloody foot prints.

There is no known assocation between Guede and Knox/Sollecito/Kercher prior to the murder, so you have to believe that Guede, Knox, and Sollecito conspired to murder Kercher without knowing each other -- not likely.

Guede claimed that he did not have sex with Kercher but his DNA was found inside Kercher.

The only witness to contradict Knox/Sollecito's testimony that they were in his apartment all night is a heroine addict, and his testimony changed numerous times. Ultimately, the police have not been able to contradict the time line presented by Sollecito and Knox.

The prosecutor's initial theory on the case was the same one he used for his bungled Il Mostro case -- a demonic cult sacrifice.

The prosecutor has been found guilty of abuse of power since the Knox case concluded.

Guede initially admitted being at the apartment alone with Kercher. An indepent group has shown that the murder could easily have been committed by one person. Also, Guede was identified as the perpetrator in another crime in which he threw a rock through a window to gain access to the apartment (just like the Kercher crime scene). Guede was found in possession of a computer and cell phone from the earlier crime.

Finally, an independent review of the investigation found that the police mishandled evidence or failed to follow proper forensic procedure almost 60 times. Basically, all the DNA evidence incriminating Knox/Sollecito is questionable.

Just a couple discrepencies to the general, physical/forensic and circumstantial evidence.

[maxsolomon]

55. when the interrogators coerced her into naming her boss,

Patrick Lumumba, and he had an alibi (unlike the actual murderer who is in prison), she was then prosecuted and sued for false accusation. Or something - the details escape me at this time.

This is more of the same - prosecutorial intimidation - i.e., shut up and accept your unjust conviction or it will get even worse.

Those maintaining her guilt here need to do us all a favor - give us a realistic motivation for this couple to join Rudy Guede in killing Meridith Kercher.