ATF 'Fast and Furious' secret audio: Murder of Border Patrol agent 'collateral damage'

[RamboLiberal]

Source: CBS News

In secretly recorded conversations between two individuals deeply entwined in the ATF's controversial "Fast and Furious" operation, the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry is described as "collateral damage."

The recordings were obtained exclusively by CBS News. The man who made them - Arizona gun dealer Andre Howard - ran the Lone Wolf Trading Company and was speaking with Hope MacAllister, the ATF operation's case agent.

Two of the guns Howard sold while cooperating with the ATF that were later found at Terry's murder.

"It happened. It's terrible," Howard said. "That's life ok we move on."



Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20109529-10391695.html?tag=stack

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Agent Terry was a U.S. Marine Corps veteran and had served with the United States Border Patrol for 3.5 years. He had previously served as a police officer with the Lincoln Park, Michigan, Police Department. He is survived by his parents, brother, two sisters, five nieces, and one nephew.

http://www.odmp.org/officer/20596-border-patrol-agent-brian-a-terry

Tell that to his family you smug heartless f**kers!

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[B2G]

2. This is not going to end well. n/t

[PragmaticLiberal]

4. It sure isn't.....

:-(

[underpants]

3. So one guy ( a gun dealer) in a program that started 6 years ago made that one statement?

He's an asshole but that's life ok we move on

[B2G]

5. You really need to do a little research on this. n/t

[underpants]

6. It started in 2005 n/t

[B2G]

7. I don't care when it started

200 Mexicans and an ATF agent dead...that we know of to date. Why wasn't it stopped??

[stockholmer]

10. you are wrong, 'Fast and Furious' (which let the guns 'walk out') started in 2009, Gunrunner started

in 2005, but DID NOT let the guns go over the border. The Obama DOJ and BATF used Operation Gunrunner funding to start the new programme.

excellent summary:

http://www.handgunclub.com/hca/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Project-Gunrunner-timelines0715.pdf

One thing requires clarification however. The code names the government used can be
confusing. Project Gunrunner was a BATF program begun under the Bush administration
to arrest straw-purchasers and gun smugglers moving guns to Mexico. From 2005 through
2008, it was moderately successful and resulted in hundreds of arrests and prosecutions.
Operation Fast and Furious is a separate program that began in 2009. The ATF launched
this program using Project Gunrunner funding and reportedly moved the focus from the
straw-buyer to "higher level" players. Their claim was that they were targeting those with the
money to buy guns and move them to Mexico. It was under Operation Fast and Furious that
ATF agents simply watched guns "walk" over the border into Mexico and lost track of them.
At least until they turned up at a crime scene.
David Codrea coined the term "Gunwalker" to name the scandal when rumors of it first
surfaced in connection with Project Gunrunner. Unfortunately, this does cause some folks to
focus on the successful Project Gunrunner instead of Operation Fast and Furious.

[X_Digger]

12. No. Project Gunrunner started in 2005. Project Fast and Furious was 2009.

I know you want to make this a 'bush' thing, but the fuck up belongs to the ATF and anyone in the DOJ who knew and approved it- starting in 2009.

[SavWriter]

8. Here is what I don't understand

Why haven't the Mexicans delivered an Ultimatum demanding that those responsible for starting this, directing it, covering it up, be turned over to stand trial for thier crimes against the Mexican Government and as accessories to Murder.

This is absolutely a reason to go to War. In fact, War's have been started over less than this. It was, and is inexcusable. The idea that the Government promoted three ATF officials who were involved is unforgivable. That the only one fired was a whistleblower is unbelievable.

If I was the President of Mexico, I would seriously demand answers from those responsible or else.

[B2G]

9. I can't understand it either

It looks positively horrendous. Like I said, this is going to end very very badly.

[TheWraith]

11. Because that would draw too much attention to their own transgressions.

Including the number of US military spec weapons--including automatic rifles, 40mm grenades, rocket launchers, etcetera--which have "disappeared" from the Mexican Army's stockpiles and found their way to the cartels.

[SavWriter]

14. That isn't a justification.

That is a child screaming he did it too as he's caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Additionally, it can easily be argued that weapons sold by individual soldiers or police, or stolen by the cartels from military armories is NOT Government policy. Whereas the encouragement of the sales to straw-buyers with the knowledge beforehand that they would be in the hands of the Cartel in days WAS Government policy in Fast and Furious.

Again, why the Mexican Government HAS NOT delivered an Ultimatum demanding the surrendering of those responsible is beyond me. It is clearly and historically sufficient cause for such a demand.

[Psephos]

13. The promotions and firings are simply a signal to others in ATF and DOJ.

The signal is: shut your mouth, and you will get a raise. Open your mouth, and you won't even get foodstamps.

[PavePusher]

15. Reading the transcript, I don't get the feeling that the dealer was being callous....

so much as that he was deeply concerned that he would become the fall-guy for co-operating with government agents in what he had assumed was good faith.

I don't think the co-operating dealer is at fault here.