Obama making final push to blunt Palestinian bid

[Freddie Stubbs]

Source: Associated Press

NEW YORK (AP) - Scrambling to head off a diplomatic clash, President Barack Obama will publicly push for the Palestinians to drop a statehood bid when he addresses the U.N. General Assembly on Wednesday.

Obama will follow up his speech with separate meetings with Israeli and Palestinian leaders as he seeks to coax both parties back to direct peace talks.

At the same time, U.S. officials are conceding that they probably cannot prevent Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas from moving forward with a request to the U.N. Security Council for full Palestinian membership.

Recognizing that Abbas seems intent to proceed, Obama is expected to privately ask the Palestinian leader to essentially drop the move for statehood recognition after Abbas delivers a formal letter of intent to the U.N. on Friday.

Read more: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110921/D9PSSPA01.html

[dipsydoodle]

1. Abbas has promised his people that he won't back down.

I would expect him to keep such a promise.

[Mosby]

32. cnn is reporting that abbas is backing away from ga recognition

Nt

[ixion]

2. Don't we have more pressing issues, Mr. Obama?

Shouldn't you be worried about the fact that the US is sinking in a quagmire? Why deny others the same rights to statehood granted to the US?

[Freddie Stubbs]

3. Apparently President Obama is able to multitask

[ixion]

8. not very well at all

in my opinion. Still, I don't think pushing against a Palestinian statehood request is worth any processing cycles.

[Freddie Stubbs]

11. It is worth it if he doesn't want to be the first Democratic President to lose the Jewish vote

[Why Syzygy]

18. So Obama

should try to sabotage a people's freedom in order to get the "Jewish vote"?

Must everything be undertaken with the express goal of getting the "Jewish vote"?

Surely your stripes are showing.

[Freddie Stubbs]

20. President Obama owes his allegiance to the American people, not the Palestinians

He cannot continue to help the American people if he is a one-term President.

[Hardrada]

34. Obama owes his allegiance to the American people not to the Israelis.

That way works just as well for me. The American people does not consist of Jews who are pro-Likud government. Not the same at all.

[Freddie Stubbs]

47. He is quite capable of keeping his allegiance with the American people and supporting Isreal

Do American voters want him to support Israel, or the Palestinians?

[Why Syzygy]

74. Easy enough to answer

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/2102/palestinian-statehood-israel-united-nations
Americans, especially DEMOCRATS, want a Palestinian state recognition.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

24. Johnson was willing to lose the South -

to do the right thing with Civil Rights in the 60s. The right thing is always the right thing, and Statehood for the Palestinians is the right thing.

[totodeinhere]

35. President Obama supports Palestinian statehood as I'm sure you know.

The only disagreement is over how best to get there. Reasonable people can disagree sometimes.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

56. I believe if it is left to Israel to sign on --

it will never happen. I think a unilateral approach is the Palestinians best hope.

The world gave Jews a State of their own, from another People's land.

Why is that process not good enough for the Palestinians?

[No Elephants]

57. Actually, I don't know that he supports it.

I think the two state solution is every bit as beautiful as the Emperor's new clothes.

At least, I am sure I would think so, if it ever came into being.

I think the chances of that are about as good as the chances of the tooth fairy winning the 2012 Presidential election.

At least, that's been the reality so far.

[JDPriestly]

21. The same could be asked of the Palestinians.

Why do they want to deprive Israel of its statehood? Why can't they live in peace with it?

Have you read the 1947 UN Declaration that created the Jewish State of Israel as well as the Palestinian state?

It is very reasonable and an excellent starting place for negotiations for the establishment of two friendly states in the area, both of which could be members of the United Nations. The idea of an economic union in the area is especially interesting.

Obviously, the borders would have to be redrawn and land traded.

Check it out.

http://daccess-dds-ny.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION/GEN/NR0/038/88/IMG/NR003888.pdf?OpenElement

[ixion]

26. There is no deprivation of Israel. Seriously, do you honestly feel it's a 'shared' state?

I really don't know how you can make that claim. For all practical intents and purposes, Israel runs rough shod over Palestine, which is hardly 'shared', and if the two can't get along, it's better to separate them.

[JDPriestly]

48. If the Palestinians recognized Israel and did not play victim and enemy

of Israel, then the Palestinians would gain a lot of respect, not least of all from Israelis.

The Palestinians need to be realistic about their situation as do we all. Holding on to the illusion that they will somehow "return" to the situation prior to 1947 is what is harming them.

They should negotiate in good faith with Israel. The Palestinians have lost so much time wallowing in bitterness. Life isn't fair. It wasn't fair to the Jews who immigrated to Israel. It wasn't fair to the Jews who lived in Israel prior to WWII. Life isn't fair.

You accept that fact and negotiate for the best deal you can get. The Palestinians have enormous support around the world. They simply have to live in peace with their neighbor, Israel, and their situation will improve dramatically. It is such an obvious, simple thing.

The Palestinians have been mislead by generations of leaders including Arafat who made themselves wealthy at the expense of ordinary people. Their leadership thrived on stirring up hatred on both sides of the Palestine/Israeli conflict. It is very sad.

The answer is for Palestinians to simply accept the existence of Israel and negotiate for an economic union and certain property rights to be established gradually over time as the peoples of the countries learn to trust each other.

[ixion]

49. uh, yeah...

Your un-critical love of Israel is showing. I find your assumptions lacking in reality, at best.

[JDPriestly]

55. I see a lot of un-critical love for Palestine on DU.

I grew up in a household that was pro-Palestinian, studied the issues, watched history unfold and realized that the Palestinians were not taking their own destiny in hand.

They have allowed many, many opportunities to negotiate for peace and a better life for their people pass without taking advantage of them. And, in the past, the outright corruption in the Palestinian leadership has been a disgrace. Learn something about the amount of money that Arafat for one had, it seems, when he died. Arafat amassed that money while the Palestinian people did without.

Palestinians were given so much aid, but never seemed to every leave the refugee camp mentality behind them. I repeat that Palestinians need to stop playing the victims. They are not the world's stepchildren. They should stand up and take care of each other and respect and live in peace with all their neighbors. When they do that, they will get everything they need and much of what they want even if they don't need all of it.

It isn't a matter of being pro on side or the other. It is a matter of taking advantage of opportunities rather than feeling sorry for yourself.

[RT Atlanta]

4. Help me understand why?

As in, why does our "freedom loving and democracy inspiring shining beacon" want to blunt a population's efforts to organize their own country?

[FarLeftFist]

5. Because Israel doesn't approve of their state's borders.

[Freddie Stubbs]

6. Perhaps because that population continues to launch missiles at the citizens of one of our allies

[truebrit71]

7. Oh yeah, and our "ally" is pure as the driven snow...

...when it comes to violence in this dispute...:eyes:

[Freddie Stubbs]

16. Of course not. But we are not going to force our ally to put themselves into a position of

disadvantage if it is unnecessary.

[No Elephants]

58. We could say Palestine is our ally.

[Lars77]

9. So what? Let them have their state, and if they keep doing it, Israel would be right to intervene.

[Freddie Stubbs]

13. The Allies did not allow Japan to become self-governing until several years after

WWII hostilities ended.

[Lars77]

23. If the allies kept up the occupation for 60+ years maybe the Japanese would be pissed too

[movonne]

17. That is a two way street.....and soon Israel will be our only ally...

[Freddie Stubbs]

22. Only ally? What about the UK? Germany? Japan? Canada?

[The Stranger]

29. Oh, bullshit, "that population" is a civilian population that has been brutally occupied for decades

[hack89]

33. Gaza is not occupied - Israel unilaterally left that territory

and the rockets from Gaza started immediately.

[Marrah_G]

37. It is a prison in a a sense though, correct?

It's hard to get in and out of and the people there have little in the way of an economy.

[hack89]

38. It was not a prison in the minutes after the IDF left and before Hamas started shooting

The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to make the wrong choice.

[The Stranger]

40. It's actually the Mossad that funded and fostered Hamas as opposition to Fatah.

Who missed the opportunity there and made the wrong choice there, huh?

[hack89]

41. But Hamas are the ones shooting rockets

can you imagine how different things would be in Gaza if they had embraced peaceful co-existence? Here was a significant unilateral move by Israel to give up territory and Hamas responded with violence. So explain to me, after that, why Israel should embrace the notion of land for peace. They got land for war.

[The Stranger]

51. So you admit Israel's secretly supporting Hamas against Fatah was a mistake and missed opportunity.

And there are so, so many others.

[hack89]

53. But since it was the Palestinian voters that put them Hamas in power

at some point the Palestinians have to take some responsibility for their situation. They made a poor choice, it would appear.

[The Stranger]

66. They've been occupied, bombed, starved, murdered -- they don't really have choices.

So the meme about "responsibility" really doesn't work here.

[hack89]

68. So they have no other choice but to shoot rockets? Got it.

So if they can't control the violence, what exactly can Israel do? Beside doing everything in their power to ensure Hamas does not get more powerful weapons?

How is Gaza occupied? I could have sworn there was a unilateral withdraw from Gaza by the Israelis. Dismantled settlements and left - isn't that what happened? Do you remember Hamas' immediate response was?

[hack89]

69. Twenty years ago Palestinians freely commuted to Israel for jobs.

the economy was good and there were no walls. What event precipitated the great change that produced the current situation? The Intifada, correct? And all the terrorist bombings in Israel, correct? Do the Palestinians bear any responsibility for those acts and the resulting changes in their quality of life?

Is your position that the Arabs and the Palestinians bear no blame or responsibility for past actions that led to their present condition? All the wars started and lost, all the terrorist bombings, electing a terrorist group into power - are all of those things irrelevant in your eyes?

[The Stranger]

39. Of course, it's occupied. The IDF blockaded food and medicine from the civilians living there.

That's why people started trying to float rafts there, remember?

[hack89]

42. Lets review the Gaza time line, shall we?

1. Israel unilaterally moves its settlers and army from Gaza.

2. Hamas responds immediately with rockets from Gaza.

3. Israel imposes a blockade to prevent Hamas from getting bigger rockets.

Think how much better things would be in Gaza if Hamas had responded to Israel with peaceful co-existence instead of violence.

[The Stranger]

52. Those talking points. Hmm, I've seen them somewhere else . . .

[hack89]

54. So you have to deny real facts to support your world view?

it explains a lot.

[The Stranger]

64. No, I'm pointing out that the list you posted is appearing all over the place.

It can't be coincidence.

[hack89]

70. But is it wrong? Can we stick to facts and forgo personal attacks? nt

[vminfla]

72. You seen these before because it really happened

despite any dystopian attempt to rewrite history, this is how it went down.

[Marrah_G]

36. And that country also launches weapons....much better weapons that we pay for.

I thought Obama wanted a 2 party solution?

[dgibby]

10. Obama needs the Jewish vote. n/t

[BloomTownie]

12. so-called jewish vote is a myth n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

15. Tell that to David Weprin

[The Stranger]

30. Weprin isn't running for President of the United States. You go tell him that.

[Freddie Stubbs]

45. Weprin is evidence of what happens to Democrats when Jewish voters get nervous about Israel

[No Elephants]

59. What does whether Weprin ran for President have to do with

whether or not a "Jewish vote" exists and whether or not Obama needs it, if it does exist?

[The Stranger]

65. Weprin's district is dominated by Orthodox Jews.

Are you pretending you didn't know this?

[Why Syzygy]

19. amen

a big ole bogus boogie creature. Illusion, Mr. Wordsworth. Illusion.

[No Elephants]

63. There is however, a pro-Israel vote that has come to encompass many Christians.

And it is almost unconditional.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[solarman350]

25. and this guy's a Nobel P-E-A-C-E Prize Recipient?

and he's got this agenda to push for Palestinian statehood if we re-elect him right?....Sort of like believing richard noxon when he said he had a secret plan to end the Vietnam War if we re-elected him.....hmmmmmm...do we REALLY have to go down that road again?

[dipsydoodle]

27. That was only for intent

Still seems misguided.

[harun]

44. They thought giving him the Peace Prize would push him to do peaceful

actions. (Which is about the stupidest thing they have ever done).

[vminfla]

73. Just like the UN, the Nobel committee is politics

Handing someone a peace prize for something he may do makes about as much sense as handing out a peace prize to a terrorist. Oh wait, they did that too.

[No Elephants]

60. As a member of the Nobel Committee hinted broadly, the award in Obama's case was

"aspirational." They "hoped" it would turn him toward peace.

In turn, by giving the award away, he signaled he was not going to let the award influence him.

Check mate. Not three dimensional chess, though. And guess who really lost.

[prevere54]

28. Palestinians Get Some Obama Style Hope & Change

This is the same caliber of Hope & Change The Palestinians have been getting for 60 Years.

Geez.. It just makes me wonder - How much more hope and change can The World endure before waking up one day and finding ourselves back in the stone age?

[iamthebandfanman]

31. "There is no shortcut to the end of a conflict that has endured for decades."

not with that attitude.


why o why cant we have an actual LIBERAL as president :(

[No Elephants]

61. As if anyone in power actually wanted a shortcut to end the status quo.

[harun]

43. I wish Obama worked at protecting rights of U.S. citizen's as hard as right wing Israeli's.

[bvar22]

46. I thought the official US Policy was SUPPORT for a Two State Solution?

Obama himself said that a "Two State Solution" was "critical" to peace in the Middle East.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE7IfQ7CGeI

Guess he was FOR it
before he was AGAINST it.


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their promises.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[No Elephants]

62. It is. "Official" being the key word. Now, ask about our actual policy.

[pettypace]

50. Hope and change

This guy is the ultimate chameleon.

At least he's smart enough to know where his bread is buttered.

[Bragi]

67. A major repudiation of Obama by Obama

That's what we have here. Obama has basically eliminated himself as a major influence on what happens next in the middle east.

Here's how the NY Times article describes his pathetic performance yesterday:

UNITED NATIONS — A last-ditch American effort to head off a Palestinian bid for membership in the United Nations faltered. President Obama tried to qualify his own call, just a year ago, for a Palestinian state. And President Nicolas Sarkozy of France stepped forcefully into the void, with a proposal that pointedly repudiated Mr. Obama’s approach.

The extraordinary tableau Wednesday at the United Nations underscored a stark new reality: the United States is facing the prospect of having to share, or even cede, its decades-long role as the architect of Middle East peacemaking...

<http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/22/world/obama-rebuffed-as-palestinians-pursue-un-seat.html?_r=1&hp>

Sadly, Obama is now fully aligned with the neoconservative right-wing Prime Minister of (my country) Canada. Seriously, you can't get much more imbalanced against the Palestinians and blindly in support of Likudism than Harper, and Obama is now right there with him.

This is really disappointing.

[Vidar]

71. Another "courageous" move by the Panderer in Chief.