Obama's Postal Service plan would cut Saturday mail

[alp227]

Source: Reuters

(Reuters) - The Obama administration's plan to rescue the U.S. Postal Service would allow the agency to end Saturday mail delivery and sell non-postal products, according to documents released on Monday.

The plan, introduced alongside a deficit-reduction package, also would restructure a massive annual payment to prefund retiree health benefits and refund $6.9 billion the mail carrier says it overpaid into a federal retirement fund.

The White House says its plan would save the Postal Service more than $20 billion in the next few years.

"The administration recognizes the enormous value of the U.S. Postal Service to the nation's commerce and communications, as well as the urgent need for reform to ensure its future viability," the White House document said.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/19/us-usa-postalservice-amendment-idUSTRE78I3XF20110919`

[elleng]

1. Good they plan to restructure the payment.

Need legislation to eliminate the bogus pre-payment, but that's probably a fight for another day.

[Born Free]

43. HR 1351

From the APWU website:

Please contact your Representative and urge them to cosponsor and support HR 1351, a bill introduced by Rep. Steve Lynch (D-MA).

The U.S. Postal Service is currently facing a financial crisis partly due to the recession but more significantly caused by the burdensome requirement of the 2006 Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act that it make payments of $5.4 billion dollars annually to prefund it retiree health benefits. Absent those prefunding mandates the Postal Service would actually be operating at a surplus over the last 4 fiscal years.

Recent independent audits performed for the USPS Office of Inspector General and the Postal Regulatory Commission have shown that the USPS has already overfunded its Civil Service Retirement Fund by over $50 billion dollars and also has overfunded the Federal Employee Retirement System by nearly $7 billion dollars.

H.R. 1351 is a bill that would resolve those financial inequities and bring the Postal Service into financial solvency with no use of tax payer money.

Please take the time to contact your Representative and ask that they cosponsor, and later support HR 1351 when it is considered in the House of Representatives.


http://capwiz.com/apwu/issues/alert/?alertid=43580526

[tclambert]

2. Eliminating Saturday delivery saves money by cutting JOBS.

Just what this country needs with high unemployment crushing the economy. But, hey, what's another 100,000 layoffs?

[Freddie Stubbs]

8. If saves jobs by not allowing the USPS to go bankrupt

[joeglow3]

18. Yeah. Gas, wear and tear, etc. are free on Saturdays.

All you fools paying for that stuff on Saturdays.

[MadMaddie]

38. Not necessarily

Is it really efficient to have Saturday delivery? Back in the day they used to deliver mail twice a day, that really wasn't efficient.

Postal Service has had financial issues, eliminating Saturday delivery won't necessarily mean loss of jobs. It may mean more workers out during the week, so Shifting those Saturday delivery folks to other areas etc may be an option.

I also don't believe we want the Postal service privatized and that's exactly what the Repugs want. They privatize it, then they start sifting through our mail, we aren't guaranteed that laws are being followed. No thank you, I would rather have one less day of delivery then privatization of the Postal service.

[PATRICK]

59. In reality

Loss of service is not efficient nor cost saving. The actual effect of squeezing both work week and especially an already bare-boned work force will be to clot up the mail and hurt timed deliveries in a tsunami ripple effect worse than the hiring freeze years. Wait, we have had a hiring freeze for years except for replacing older workers with cheaper workers.

Or else privatization? It will mostly, by its effects, heighten the call and leave gaps that will make stepping in (like some Medi-gap thinking) more attractive. The lack of future for paper, the lack of sane American business models much less concept of national service, the impetus to reduce workforce to make up for the "new" improvements until it can't work, means such compromises lead us down many dark and irreversible paths not good for anyone.

Every efficiency justifies itself by reducing workers until it can't work, can't function without the presence of the stripped down human element, can't operate beyond the limits of 24/7 aging stressed machines. OSHA limits in the field are almost always exceeded when "productivity" goals are almost met. Those limits are also exceeded by stressed workplace environment and stressed workforce. This whole drive to the bottom is plain old smoke until the rapists get a shot to make a quick buck, completely ruin service, go bankrupt, get taxpayer bailouts unthinkable for the USPS and disappear. Think TSA.

[customerserviceguy]

3. I'm deeply disappointed

that the obvious money-raiser wasn't included - raising the price of that litter known as junk mail.

Oh well, drag the stamp price up to a buck, and even Gramps and Gramma will find a way to get and pay their bills over the Internet. Keep the shit mail prices low, and the guys at the landfill will have jobs.

[Freddie Stubbs]

9. The USPS can do that without any change in the law

[Swede Atlanta]

4. This really sucks.....

I receive few bills or other "real" mail anymore. I was initially concerned when the idea of terminating Saturday delivery was first floated a few years ago because I was a bit NetFlix user. Now that I have switched to streaming only and considering Hulu that concern goes away. But as other posters have noted, no Saturday delivery means cutting jobs. That is something that maybe in the long-run is needed but not now.

The only mail I get in droves and droves is junk mail that I never even look at. It goes into the recycling bin at my condo building and is never seen. What a waste of a service. I'll bet I recycle at least 100 pounds of junk mail every year from sale flyers to credit card offers.

I would prefer a smaller more nimble postal service that provides quality services if we could get rid of the scourge that is junk mail.

[Freddie Stubbs]

28. Junk mail helps subsidize the delivery of first class mail

Without it, the USPS would be in even worse financial shape.

[eringer]

5. There are better ways to generate revenue

I just recieved my personal property tax bill in the mail for the county. The county gets a ton of cash from me but gets a break from USPS in sending me the bill (34 cents versus 44 cents). Same is true for my Allstate bill. Do away with these "presorted first class" rates first and then determine if Saturday delivery needs to go. BTW, where are the mail-order companies on this proposal. I would guess that places like Buy.com, Amazon.com, Meritline.com, etc. support Saturday delivery and would be willing to pay a little more to keep it around. I sell a few things on amazon marketplace and eBay and for the small stuff, USPS is the way to go for shipping.
An immediate bump in revenue could be realized if the USPS raised the maximum weight of first class mail to 16 or 18 ounces. Right now its 13 ounces and is probably based on mailbag weights which should be a thing of the past and an easy trade off (with the postal union) for keeping your job as a mailman.

[Blasphemer]

6. Good suggestions

Saturday delivery definitely gives the USPS an edge when it comes to online selling and buying. I can order on Tuesday, have it shipped on Wednesday and get it by Saturday. With UPS of Fedex that is not the case if it is shipped from too far away.

[on point]

7. Just charge 1st class rates to all the ad garbage they ship to our trash bins via the mail already

I know the argument that they make a lot of money this way, but I think it actually makes them too 'heavy'.

This is a customer they should ditch and scale back on infrastructure needed to service this client.

It would also be good for the country economically and for the planet too.

[mac56]

10. I'll bring this up again and again until my voice gets through.

SELL ADVERTISING ON POSTAGE STAMPS.

USPS would be back in the black in a matter of weeks.

Just the collectors market alone will make them solvent.

[greiner3]

11. It's the 'Junk Mail;

That allows the Post Office to be able to deliver to 99% of American homes for the price of a first class stamp. All the ads, political crap, catalogs and other bulk mail that gives the Post Office nearly all its revenue. On top of this, bulk mail is pre-sorted by zip code; a carrier just takes the top piece and delivers it to the next mail box. This allows the carrier to be able to stop at every address on the route.

If I get an average of 2 pieces of 'junk mail' per day, in a month I'll get about 50 per month, 600 a year. The pricing I found was about 16 cents per letter sized piece for national commercial companies and about 20 cents for local. It's about 7 cents for national non-profits. The price jumps for 3.3 ounces and above; for commercial this is 28 cants and non-profits about 30 cents.

I would say I get 90% letter sized and 10% greater than the 3.3 oz cutoff for the higher pricing for both local and national. I figure I get 70% local of this total and 30% national.

A quick and dirty total for the cost of companies sending me 'junk mail' trying to get me to buy something is;

70% of 600=420 local
of this 90% is at the lower pricing=378 and 42 for the higher pricing
378*.2=$75.60
42*.28=$11.76

30% of 600=180 national
180*.9=162
162*.16=$25.92
18*.28=$5.04

$75.60+$11.76+$25.92+$5.04=$118.32

I live in a zip code with about 20,000 addresses.

20,000*$118.32=$2,366,400

There are about 60 carrier routes in this zip code. Figure that there are 25% more carriers than carrier routes to cover the Saturday deliveries (regular carriers would have rotating days off) and that gives each carrier in this zip code a total of;

$2,366,400\75=$31,552

This is the amount that 'junk mail' subsidizes the ability of each American to get individual mail delivered to their home address.

Say the reducto ad absurdum is applied (the argument that follows an argument to it's logical end). This means that each carrier would have to depend on personal mail deliveries. I get maybe 3-4 of these delivered a month. My 1 1/4 carriers would have to be paid off of my monthly revenue generated at the total cost of $1.76. That gives each carrier a total weekly amount of $0.33 incoming revenue.

This amount is not all going toward the carrier. I can only give a figure of say 10 hands that touch my mail. That brings the weekly revenue to $0.033. I would add another 10% for admin costs bringing in a revenue of $0.0030. Add another say 3% for buildings, the vehicle the carrier drives (I'm on a rural route) and misc. and I get a figure of $0.0029 for my weekly delivery of home delivery of 4 pieces of personal mail.

Of course the Post Office could not even afford to go this route (pun intended?). There would have to be the delivery of 'junk mail.' If there would be a price increase too high for pre-sort costs the amount of pieces of commercial mail I get would be greatly reduced. I would get most of the measly national mail I get. It would be the local merchants that would not be able to afford much of a price increase. I leave it to you to figure out the lost revenue this would bring in. I'm tired.

2,366,400\60=

[OverDone]

13. Your Correct

The amount of junk mail delivered is insane, cut that out and that will at least help on deliveries.

[Romulox]

20. No it doesn't. The USPS loses billions. So it's false to argue that "junk mail makes it possible"

In reality, we the people subsidize junk mail delivery.

[Scruffy1]

39. The USPS gets no money from "we the people".

Advertising revenue is the only growth area in mailing. Under the new APWU contract more work was brought in house since the USPS can sort it for less than the presort discount that was given.

[Occulus]

53. Incorrect.

In reality, Presort Standard mail subsidizes the cost of First Class mail.

You pay the rest when you buy a stamp. Without Presort Standard, a stamp would likely cost close to a dollar, universal service would be too costly to maintain, and the USPS would end up being privatized.

Raising rates on Presort Standard would have the same effect, with a side bonus of local business closures because that's their primary, if not only, form of advertising.

[Romulox]

56. A service which loses money can't logically be said to "subsidize" anything else;

as it doesn't pay its own way in the first place. At most, it can "offset" some of the loss it generates. :hi:

[JaneQPublic]

12. Another issue for those of us on Netflix DVD delivery

Currently, I can receive two movies/week, if I return the first promptly. However, one fewer mail delivery day will mean only one movie/week.

I've avoided the streaming video option, since it costs more and offers a much smaller selection.

[totodeinhere]

35. So that survival of the Postal Service is at stake and all you are worried about is how many

DVD's you get?

[JaneQPublic]

37. Yes.

[PATRICK]

14. About the service, the economy and ad mail

Let's remember the tinkering with the universal service is mainly a necessity because of the criminal economic crash and the equally criminal theft by Congress of billions from the budget in the guise of "caring" about postal retirees who will be so few by the time thew rape is completed that the fund will vanish entirely into the budget maw by some future wave of the wand.

Let's set aside the electronic whizzbang future that never arrived with the telegraph or telephone and is not arriving with internet and cell phone. Universal communications to meet the nation's needs have been inadequate and pricey and spoiled from the get-go by private enterprise ruling those communications domains. Until some clear headed government can tackle the problem the way the paper network was handled we will have the same fractured, ruinous competition that has given us modern 'journalism" a thousand channels of tripe, a thousand radio channels of the same and most national newspapers of the same. Somehow that gloop gives us universal crap to a totally fractured public at pricey rates. Complain to me about junk mail some other time.

Most world governments, save those who fell to the privatization lures and hurt their services, realize they need a universal dependable network to reach each citizen. Some have included the electronic media, even have their own government run TV networks. In the wide reaches of America the only reliable method of reaching everyone. whether nationally or locally is by so-called snail mail. Political contenders, charities, small businesses of any size have a chance with this still affordable, sole option. Free ads(charities) on glitzy media surprisingly has not stopped them shelling out for mailings. E-mail spam is a ruined option. getting rid of it is nowhere as easy as going to the local post office and finding out how to block bulk ad mail, or simply recycling it(less time consuming than detecting and deleting spam). Bulk mailers, the private sector in this class, are the middle men, not the businesses, pols or charities themselves.

As an aside, I think the postal problems got worse vis a vis politicians as they extricated patronage jobs, corruption from the service and made it semi-independent. The only fun they can get is selling out the service to their pals on the outside via the politically appointed Board of Governors who choose the Postmaster General.

As with Social security, public purchase of postage IS the revenue. Tinkering with that money by Congress and wailing about reform to save the service is the same Big Lie hypocrisy to cover the bankster crisis. Reducing service hurts the economy. Reducing jobs hurts the economy. Reducing service hurts the future and the current national network that is the only national outreach by a human to each each and every citizen. In the past the USPS would have budget woes and get reluctant bailouts- which went on the backs of workers being denied wages. The calming lie is that this would improve things in any way. My experience over three decades has been whenever there was a hiring freeze or belt tightening the mail piled up and up and up. When the delivery stream is compressed it keeps flowing but lumps up into mini tsunamis and lost or outdated deliveries(leading to harm to businesses and individuals). Fewer workers working longer hours tackling these moving mountains does not work. Eventually(after more grousing about how the Post Office can't deliver when you shoot one of the legs off) they hire more people, improve conditions.

All automation begins with the same blinkers and unfulfilled promises. Manual workstations and personnel are reduced before ever the system is fully implemented. Then denial. Bosses fired for giving the massive overtime and failing to get the automated machine system to work as it does on paper. The mandate to deliver the mail and the complaints of customers add pressure. In the current madness the solution is to do even more "smart business" schemes like consolidation, reduce workforce, extend the time for mail failure by act of Congress.

The unions make the Post Office work, with no expectation of the reins let loose on real profit making. Letting the Post Office sell "other products" is pathetic compared to letting them no holds barred "compete" with package mailers. After massive expansion of plant facilities, the universal network would have it all, thereby avoiding the brawling tumbling mass of electronic competition that(thankfully for my career) can't be tamed to serve in the needed basic ways.

China and Hungary are reining in the unruly draining private competitions threatening their postal networks. In the US reality is so beyond the nationally allowed comprehension as to make such actions virtually unimaginable and practically undiscussed.

[zogofzorkon]

15. What you said x10,000

and compliments to the postal workers behind the counter and the ones that deliver the mail to the door. In 55 years of using the Postal Service have always found them to be helpful and the deliveries reliable.

This is just more smoke and mirrors in an attempt to hide the profiteering and to blame labor for bad management decisions.

[mainer]

16. Add another way we're worse off than our parents

To think Americans are about to lose a service that we've known all our lives. Something Americans have counted on since 1863!!!

I suppose this move is necessary, and we'll adjust, but it's one more example of how this country is sliding into a hole. Hard to imagine that something Americans have expected for 150 years is now considered a luxury.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sketchy]

24. There are very vulnerable people who NEED Saturday delivery

And posting on this forum to respond to comments is NOT AN OPTION for them. For example: a close friend who recently died of severe MS was dependent on his monthly SSI check, which came in the mail. Small businesspeople like myself receive paper checks on Saturdays that are urgently needed, and direct deposit is not always an option when one is a freelancer! People receive medicine in the mail also, including on Saturdays.

[U4ikLefty]

31. also the unemployed

I can't tell you how many times I needed that check to buy groceries & waiting until Monday would be a hungy weekend.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

23. I don't know if you've heard, but a lot has changed since 1863.

[kiranon]

50. My IPad and IPhone say welcome to the new age of electronics.

Now to get a good solar charger. I'm looking forward to the future and the change it will bring. The Pony Express isn't coming back.

[Occulus]

51. Subpoenas.

Tax forms.
Legal notices.
Notarized documents.
Rebate checks.
Money orders.
Live animals.
Prescription drugs.

Those, just off the top of my head.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

57. iPads and iPhones don't deliver medications to elderly relatives, though.

And neither does UPS, FedEx or other private companies to certain parts of the country.

Personally, I don't use USPS for correspondence aside from cards. But I do use it exclusively for probably 12-20 packages a year I send within the US and occasionally Canada and Europe - great service, typically better prices than UPS, FedEx, etc. They do their job well, IMO.

[Township75]

19. Good! One less day of junk mail, bills, and other crap.

.

[Scruffy1]

40. Have you tried that modern invention-the wastebasket?

Recyclable too.

[Township75]

48. Sure have. But it doesn't change the fact that I would rather have one less day

of putting stuff into the wastebasket and recycle bin.

[Romulox]

21. Thank GAWD it passed! nt

[Brian Okamura]

26. Yes! (nt)

[Gregorian]

22. What a fucking joke! Money for wars, but not for the people.

Dipshit nation.

[Freddie Stubbs]

27. The USPS is financially self-sufficient. It is not supported by tax dollars

[Gregorian]

32. Thanks. I knew that. Sometimes I lose it.

The whole Troy Davis thing has me somewhat irrational this morning.

[Yupster]

47. If it was self-sufficient

it wouldn't have a deficit in the billions of dollars.

More accurate to say it is working toward becoming self-sufficient again.

[vminfla]

61. It *is* self-sufficient but subject to the whims of Congress

The USPS is a private enterprise. It can achieve solvency if unfettered by the special interests of Congress. It does not need so many processing centers in congressmen's districts nor 6 day a week delivery. However, Congress has put impediments on full independence of the USPS. This is what you get when you allow Congress to interject itself into things it has no business in. This should serve as a cautionary tale for those who want the Fed to be subjected to the whims of the ilk of Ron Paul.

[Brian Okamura]

25. No Saturday mail? Whoopie!

Sorry about you Netflix/Quickster users, but your suffering is worth it. Now I only have to have mailbox anxiety 5 days a week. This is the only thing President Obama has done that I agree with. And I voted for him.

[LanternWaste]

34. I imagine that's often the case when applied to others.

"but your suffering is worth it..."

I imagine that's often the case when applied only to others. :shrug:

[daa]

29. He cuts everything else nt

[daa]

30. No Saturday delivery means your bills you mailed will be late

and you will have late penalties. May as well cancel Netflix.

[Freddie Stubbs]

33. Simple: Mail them earlier or pay them online

[totodeinhere]

36. Why can't you just mail the bill a day earlier? n/t

[sarcasmo]

62. Getting bills through the mail is an antiquated form of bill payment.

[lindysalsagal]

41. Kinda neutral on this. I just know we need the USPS

Cause private firms will lose everything and we'll have no one to complain to.

[24601]

42. If I could just sign the envelope and not have to pay for postage I

for the rest of my life, I probably wouldn't care about Saturday mail either.

[Vidar]

44. It's probably a good idea.

[alarimer]

45. So bills and checks take even longer?

When a holiday falls on a Monday you don't get mail for 4 days.

This is fucking bullshit.
The only reform necessary is to keep them from having to PREFUND their pensions which NO ONE else has to do.

[sketchy]

49. my sentiments exactly

+1

[alp227]

55. 3? (Sat+Sun+Mon) n/t

[No Elephants]

46. Why are a majority of the Postal Commissioners Republicans under a Democratic President?

[PATRICK]

58. Terms of office

Can't be legally fired. Bush I in a pique against raising postage threatened this. Only in his second term does Obama get a chance to nominate new ones and change the balance of voting power on the board. Not so happy with that prospect considering but it could be worse? Without a really good balance change they could sell the whole service they ruined down the river in lockstep with corporate wishes. The Board appoints the Postmaster General and his assistant(also voting members obviously strengthening the black). If the Postmaster were to get out of the majority program he would be easily removed by the Board.

Instead of being appointed by the sitting president the USPS must suffer the effect of a past administration until their "independent" terms run out. Right now it is a Bush II majority.

[No Elephants]

63. Not true.

The board can have no more than three members from one Party.

Obama reappointed Acton, a Republican and a Bush appointee, being under no legal compunction so to do.

At the time of the re-appointment, the Board consisted of Goldaway, Democrat (Bush appointee); Langley, Democrat (Bush Appointee); Hammond, Republican (Bush appointee), and Blair, Republican (Bush Appointee).

[No Elephants]

66. P.S. Not only did Obama re-appoint a Republican Postal Commissioner, but his nominee

to fill the vacancy left by a resignation is Taub.

According to a release from the Office of the White House Press Secretary, for over a decade, Taub served as Chief of Staff to Republican New York Congressman McHugh (who Obama recently made Secretary of the Army).

Taub's other large credential? Working on the Postal Reorganization Act of 2006.

Somewhere online, I saw Taub described as a Democrat, but Democrats simply don't serve as chiefs of staff for Republican officerholders for over ten years.

I assume he changed his voter registration to accommodate this nomination, much as Geithner changed his from Republican to Independent shortly before Obama nominated him. (Guess Timmeh could not bear to go all the way to Democrat.)

So, I repeat my question: Why, under a Democratic President, is a majority of Postal Commissioners Republican?

[TwilightGardener]

52. Saturday delivery is a pretty obvious thing to cut. I don't get UPS delivery on

Saturdays either.

[mainer]

64. I do. Just like I get FedEx delivery on Saturdays, too.

It's a part of doing business. Which the USPS will now be shut out of.

Does this mean that Express Mail will no longer be delivering on Saturdays, either?

I have a business that sometimes relies on weekend deliveries. I prefer to use the USPS because I think they should be supported, but this will further discourage me from using it.

[ljm2002]

54. Too bad he didn't propose...

...changing the rules that mandate they have funds to pay pensions for the next 75 years, as no other business, either public or private, is required to do.

This proposal will of course cost jobs, since it will remove 1/6 of delivery dates. It will also affect businesses, especially small businesses (such as those that use ebay and etsy) who disproportionately use the USPS to ship goods.

I'm all for saving the post office, and certainly stopping Saturday delivery beats closing it down or privatizing it completely. But: dayum, Obama and his people surely know about the 75-year pension thing. WHY do they never bring it up in public discussions? I would guess that 95% or more of Americans do not know about this, and one reason is that it is never, ever discussed on the talk shows or in speeches.

[vminfla]

60. A step in the right direction

non-bulk mail is at an all-time low. Now, we should also cut underutilized processing centers as well.


Personally, I would have preferred cutting Monday deliveries. Having Saturday service benefits those that are too busy during the week to get to the postal service.

[mainer]

65. Contracts, checks, legal papers, merchandise...

some of these are time-sensitive. They can't go through the internet.

And just because they don't get delivered on Saturday doesn't mean they don't HAVE to physically get delivered. So there'll be a mass movement toward UPS and FedEx, further increasing USPS losses, further accelerating their death spiral.