Bank foreclosures upon Kansas mega-church

[pstokely]

Source: KCTV 5

OVERLAND PARK, KS (KCTV) -

A well-known, yet controversial metro church is closing its doors, but not for good.

Founded by the Rev. Jerry Johnston, First Family Church will hold its final service next Sunday, Sept. 11.

First Family Church sits on a massive tract of land off 143rd and Metcalf streets in Overland Park, and thousands of Christians call the congregation home.

"In the providence and sovereignty of God, it has become clear that we must take a new direction. And our pastors have total peace," the church's board of elders announced on the First Family website.

Read more: http://www.kctv5.com/story/15396276/overland-park-mega-church-closes-its-doors

[Cirque du So-What]

1. Could this possibly signal the beginning of a trend?

Some of these megachurches are likely waaaay overextended.

[rfranklin]

2. Taking a new direction...

hightailing it out of the state with the missing funds.

[Deep13]

3. God downgraded to AA+ rating. nt

[femrap]

93. lol!

Glad to see this church feel its karma! buh-bye.

[DURHAM D]

4. Interesting comment -

"pastors have total peace"

Sounds to me like they have emptied the church coffers and taken off.

[calimary]

45. Perhaps they mean "total piece" as in - "of the pie."

[hedgehog]

5. A little more reading suggests that at least part of the problem is that

the bank is desperate for assets. Apparently they demanded full payment of the mortgage and then didn't want to re-negotiate terms. I can't say if the metro church is at fault or to what degree.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. They've been in financial trouble for a couple years now.

Johnston hired family members and paid lavish salaries. IIRC, he renegotiated the mortgage to get his hands on more money.

[RandySF]

6. I see a nice, big library in the future.

Yeah, I know.

[monmouth]

10. Or a wonderful skating rink, especially for rural youth who probably

have no recreation facilities.

[dogmoma56]

37. big money will make it the worlds largest Strip Club... , Mary Mag's nudy bar

[rurallib]

7. all that money God's taken in over the years and He can't make a payment?

[russspeakeasy]

8. I love the smell of churches and banks fighting each other.

:evilgrin:

[plumbob]

18. I know! It's nice when you don't have to pick a side - just enjoy the poison!

woo-hoo!

[Scuba]

48. Yes, that does give me a warm feeling too. n/t

[RandySF]

9. If the Spaghetti Monster is all-powerfull....

Why does He need people to collect cash and go into debt for decades to raise a building?

[msongs]

12. these people: ego, vanity, pride, social status. it is always about $$ to them nt

[SkyDaddy7]

27. How dare you insult the all knowing, all powerful...

Flying Spaghetti Monster!! Those who do not bow before FSM will feel the wrath of his big meaty balls!!

...He-He!

[bongbong]

11. Standard

This is SOP for many other types of businesses. Declare bankruptcy, shaft your creditors, and just start another corporation. Guess the Jayzus-lovers (AKA, Jesus-haters) have finally figured out another way to make lots of $$$$$.

[CanonRay]

13. One down, and how many more to go?

This is the one time I wish there was a debtors prison. What the hell is a bank going to do with a gigantic church building as REO?

[MuseRider]

14. Oh this just makes my day.

May his "church" continue to prosper in this direction. Johnston spreads enough hate for the entire state, sadly he is not alone.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

21. Nice pic. Do I sense a hint of sarcasm?

[MuseRider]

26. Well, perhaps a tad

but I live in Kansas and have always believed Glinda was a savior. :)

[UnrepentantLiberal]

36. Cool.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. Amen

Jesus is cheering this evening.

[RandySF]

15. Will Republicans and conservatives vilify churched for taking on too much debt

the way they did poor and middle class families who lost their homes?

[AlbertCat]

16. Theatre spectacles are expensive!

Why do you think movies cost so much? Big dog & pony shows cost a lot.


TAX THE CHURCHES
TAX THE BUSINESSES OWNED BY THE CHURCHES






thank you Frank Zappa

[penndragon69]

17. Greed and coveting have taken their toll.

They violate the ten commandments and then cry when the bills come due?

Greed and insanity are all that the religious monarchy are interested in, after all.
May they all be razed to the ground and turned into PUBLIC parks!

[dickthegrouch]

19. What brings a pastor total peace?

How many mega-mansions have been purchased by pastors recently?

[UnrepentantLiberal]

20. Mega-church, you've been livin' hell to me

San Quentin, you've been livin' hell to me
You've conned them since nineteen sixty three
I've seen 'em come and go and I've seen them lie
And long ago I stopped askin' why

Mega-church, I hate every inch of you.
You've cut them and have scarred them thru an' thru.
And they'll walk out a poorer weaker men;
Stupid flock why can't you understand.

Mega-church, what good do you think you do?
Do you know they'll be zombies when you're through?
You bent their hearts and minds and you may their souls,
And your stone walls turn my blood a little cold.

Mega-church, may you rot and burn in hell.
May your walls fall and may I live to tell.
May all the world forget you ever stood.
And may all the world regret you did no good.

Mega-church, you've been livin' hell to me.

[Tom Ripley]

22. God isn't good with money? I guess another stereotype bites the dust.

[stlsaxman]

23. So- is Olathe East High School (the congregations new home) a public school?

hmmm...

[pstokely]

38. Yes, a lot churches hold services in school gyms

I don't think they can legally turn them down, but I suspect someone on the school board got them a discount

[melm00se]

92. the only way that a church congregation

can be turned down is if the school does not rent the facility to any outside group.

[pstokely]

95. since many school boards are packed with fundies, churches probably get lower rates to rent school g

gyms

[melm00se]

101. in actuality

probably not.

public facilities for rent cannot differentiate between individual entities within a "group",

if they have rent $X for non-profits it must be the same for a Church (as long as it is a 501c3 non-profit) as it is for, say, the United Way (another non-profit) or Planned Parenthood.

[quakerboy]

42. Per the Olathe public School district website, yes.

http://www.olatheschools.com/schools2/school-directory

that was my first question at after reading the article myself. The whole thing sounds kinda fishy from any direction, eh.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. Hmm, with "thousands of members," they either

over-extended big time or allowed the minister access to church funds without any oversight. I suspect the latter.

In a mainline church, the finances are controlled by a board of lay people elected from the congregation, and no clergy can spend anything beyond their salaries and/or allowances without approval by the board.

[Yon_Yonson]

25. To Bad So Sad .. you folks need more GAW prayer

[Dawson Leery]

28. The bitch of karma strikes!

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Awesome - wonderful news.

Saw the headline on a newspaper at the grocery store. Wanted to jump up and cheer.

Jerry Johnston is a greedy man using Jesus to get rich. Looks like Jesus didn't like that.

[TxVietVet]

32. This pulpit pimp, Jerry Johnson, screwed those folks.

I hope the word gets out.


http://thenewdaychurchkc.com/

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. Check out the size of this church

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=7700+W+143+Overland+Park+KS&hl=en&sll=38.870583,-94.674696&sspn=0.001773,0.004077&geocode=FT8iUQIdcWFb-g%3BFScgUQId4mJb-il13KZNuMHAhzFsQnrv9RBegQ&vpsrc=0&dirflg=r&ttype=now&noexp=0&noal=0&sort=def&t=h&z=17&start=0

[pstokely]

39. Also a rich part of town

They couldn't live in a mansion if they had that church on Troost

[dimbear]

47. Strangely reminiscent of the way our closest Home Depot sits.

That freeway access is key when you're selling big volume.

[Occulus]

34. I'd like to see every last megachurch in the country shuttered and burned to the ground.

Seriously- what an unbelievable testament to the unbridled greed and misplaced priorities of America's organized religions.

A pox upon all of them!

[Scruffy1]

35. Damn! Finally some good news.

It would seem that the very good reporting by Ms. Thomas had a great effect on this pious scam artists. Her last story was about the payroll and how much dough was paid out to Mr. Johnston (about 8.000.00 per week) and all the relatives.
Of course these are not really churches, but mass political propaganda machines. They are a necessary part of right wing dogma because facts don't matter if your dealing with faith. This is why anyone who argues with a right winger is wasting his or her breath. Facts don't matter.

[alp227]

40. well, some people oughta try living WITHOUT religion. n/t

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

41. Why can't they foreclose on Westboro Baptist instead?

nt

[pstokely]

43. But he was supposed to be the next Falwell

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/next-jerry-falwell

[bengalherder]

44. Another concrete bunker for Jeezus bites the dust. n/t

[coalition_unwilling]

46. I thought Jesus saves? Except when the check bounces :) - n/t

[pstokely]

49. Former church members react after closing of mega-church is announced

Source: NBC Action News

"Anne Balmer is a former First Family Church member. She spent about two and half years at the church and even taught Sunday School classes. She said she’s sad that the church is closing because a lot of great people attend that church, but she certainly has questions about the leadership and the pastor.

“We became more and more concerned about the money. Our concern was people, including us, were giving to the church and we thought it was being used for the Lord's work for missions, for those in need, but we could never get accounting,” Balmer said.

She said Jerry Johnston, the pastor, and his family led a lifestyle describes as, “lavish, I would say just to look at their cars, their clothing their jewelry,” said Balmer.

She said anytime anyone asked where the money was going, leaders would not say. She just wanted someone to show her that the money she was giving was going to where it should be and not the pastor’s salary."

Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_kansas/johnson_county/Former-church-members-react-after-closing-of-First-Family-Church-is-announced

[Fumesucker]

50. I saw a very well known one of these assholes on the road a few months ago..

Snazzy black sports car with a vanity tag "ANOINT1"..

Yeah, he was talking on the cell phone while he was driving.

[snagglepuss]

53. Here's a pic of the scumbag Johnson

http://www.ffc.org/JohnstonBio.htm

[stranger81]

63. Say whaaaaa?????

Lists as an "Accomplishment" at this bio page
"produced a dynamic video, “DECISIONS and CONSEQUENCES,”
taped at the Kentucky State Penitentiary, which closes with
Jerry preaching strapped in the electric chair"?

[trusty elf]

66. Bizarre

This reminds me of a comment Lenny Bruce once made. He said that if Jesus had lived and died in the modern world, people would be walking around wearing little electric chairs around their necks.

[NBachers]

68. Ahhhh Great! Thank you for that!

[Botany]

75. Where could the money have gone?

32 million $ buildings on 52 acres w/ 120,000 sq. feet of indoor space ..... :puke:

but please rest easy no doubt the good pastor is taken care of

[rpannier]

76. Just like Jesus

• $32 Million Dollar facility located on 51 acres

• New $9.2 million Youth Facility (17,000 square feet) and a Children’s (52,000 square feet)

• July of 2001 Pastor Johnston launched the global television ministry of First Family Church with the support of its World Outreach Partners. Now sermons have been broadcasted all over the world via satellite and web video-streaming. Stations on which we have broadcasted include:
KC Metro Area: KMCI TV Ch. 38; KSHB, KMBC ABC 9, TV NBC; PAX TV

Regional: KPTM FOX - Omaha, NE & Lincoln, NE; KWCH CBS -Wichita, KS; KBSD CBS - Dodge City, KS; KBSH CBS - Hays, KS; KBSL CBS - Goodland, KS
Nationwide: Daystar Network, WHT Network, DirecTV, Trinity Broadcasting Network

• TVB - The Pearl
First Family’s TV broadcast aired weekly on the largest TV station in China, based in Hong Kong. Our TV program, airing every week on Sundays, reaching the 7,000,000 living in Hong Kong, plus reach into neighboring Guangdong (China’s most industrialized province with a population of 90,000,000 people). This is the most popular TV station in the Guangdong Province and is carried by the provincial and local cable operators

[glowing]

51. Tax their racket unless they can prove money they collect is going

directly to a charity cause.. and they can list that as a tax deduction... When these churches don't pay, its the town/ county that lose on property tax along with income generated by collection and gift donations to the church... Perhaps, then, there would be less churches, more tax revenue, and a few less fundies who love to make the rest of us miserable with their hypocrisy and ever need to regulate non-believer's lives.

[SoapBox]

54. Ditto.

[oldhippydude]

64. for several years

i have openly referred to these churches as the "faith industry"... the irony of the 21 century is not only that these folks are not paying any taxes... W created the faith based initiative by executive order, insuring that taxpayer funds subsidize the faith industry.. sort of an oil depletion allowance for those annointed... "funds for fundies"?

[glowing]

90. Its not like that racket has stopped under the new administration either.

I live in near Clearwater, FL (work in Clearwater). We have a different sort of church that holds this city hostage; its Scientology. They own about 1/2 of downtown Clearwater. A place where businesses would normally pay a higher property tax rate; they pay nothing. AND because its a scam based on taking everyone's life and life's savings, along with sporting a few trendy movie stars, they have money. There isn't a mayor or city councilor or county anything that isn't approved by the Church of Scientology. We could actually sport an amazing downtown, just across from the beach, that featured shopping, movie theater, even a stage theater, museums, and nighttime activity (clubs/ bars/ dining). But the church has a lot of the land, and seem to be the preferred buyers when the city offers up land to purchase. Most people don't realize how much the church actually brings the city and the county down financially, and its something we don't mention to the tourists because they are rather freaky in their cult like appearance (always wearing dark blue or black dress pants, blue button down shirt, and a sweater when it gets colder). I assume most people just think there's a close by college that has a dress code or something... or maybe they don't really pay that much attention. The route to the beach now angles through Court St, which houses the Gov't buildings. So essentially, downtown is made up of the Courthouse and other Govt type buildings, The Church of Scientology, and a few high-rise condos and a spattering of local businesses here and there. The Church even owns the historic Ft Harrison Hotel... Seriously, who thought that was a good idea? I suppose they snuck in back in the day when Florida was less populated. I would have less problems with them if they just took their "base" and moved it away from prime real-estate and just maintained 1 church. The fact that they own so much; including the local politicians is really bad for the city. The downtown area could be an incredibly vibrant area that feeds into the tourist destination of the beach just across a rather short causeway. People who do venture into the area cannot believe that for nightlife they have to spend about $100.00 on a cab one way to get to any bars or nightclubs. Its only the people of Pinellas and Clearwater that are getting screwed. The downtown space is not being utilized for the biggest bang for the buck. The property taxes have to increase on residents and other businesses to pay for Govt throughout the rest of Clearwater and Pinellas. If downtown Clearwater didn't have so much land and development belonging to a church, other businesses would have built the downtown area up into a beach-side tourist attraction. There would be jobs downtown for people who live there, more money coming into the area, and probably more people actually coming in as their preferred vacationing spot because a city is literally so close the water's edge and just a 5 minute ride across a causeway/ bridge to get onto the beach. There's a trolly that crosses over the bridge and runs along the beach area. People could utilize both the downtown area and the beach in an easy fashion without having to drive and worry about parking. If its raining or a family is sporting a severe sunburn because they didn't realize how strong our Florida sun is compared to what it is in say Connecticut, having the option of a simple trip into downtown to shop or visit museums would make a tourists visit to the beach so much more pleasurable.

Sadly, I don't see this church losing its grip or land anytime soon. They have money. They have bought their representatives on both sides of the aisle. It wasn't too long ago that they were in the run off for an extra piece of vacant land that the city was selling off. I don't know who actually got the land. There's not a lot of news about them. The St. Pete Times did a story about them over a few spreads a while back... 2004/2005. They had maps of the downtown area and how much the church owned and how they controlled the elected officials. If an elected official had not received an endorsement from the church, the church would go down and dirty on the other candidates. It was a fascinating series. I was surprised to see how in depth it actually was. I'm sure some items had been left out, but it certainly looked like a racketeering enterprise to me. Perhaps, that becomes a way to take them out? Who knows. As far as the community, it would be best if they packed it up and took their cultish compound out of a downtown city. No other church has that much power or influence on a city that I know of in these modern times.

Anyway, churches altogether need to pay taxes. At the very least, they need to pay property tax for the land they are on, oftentimes having prime real-estate that costs the town or city more money from having a non-tax paying entity taking up valuable land space. AND absolutely no politician should be allowed to speak at a church or be endorsed by a church. In fact, a church should not be able to speak about any type of political issue what so ever. They are supposed to be in the business of helping and providing comfort to the soul; they should not be there to tell someone that something or someone is evil and is the Devil Incarnate. The only time they should venture into speaking of abortion or of someone being gay is if their parishioner comes to them and asks for prayer and guidance. Otherwise, they should not be allowed to talk about anything other than helping ease the soul. In fact, the money collected from taxes should sufficiently cover enough to provide programs for the poor, homeless, and down on their luck types of people throughout the United States. If they wish to take up an extra collection plate to help the homeless or what not, the money collected on a whole from every church across the United States, could go into a special account at the Federal level to be used and dispersed specifically for helping the poor and homeless, like paying for hotel room for a family or building affordable housing, or building homeless shelters that are actually dignifying (like a mini-apt with walls, doors, bathroom, and kitchen), and rehabilitation centers to help those that are addicted to drugs. Could you imagine how much money collected and directed to a fund specifically like that would be for America? Shoot, people who don't even go to church could choose to send money into a "Poverty Initiative Fund" that the Federal Govt could use throughout the United States. The agency running the funds would never have the money stolen from to pay for war or pet perks. It would be an addendum social agency that could positively begin addressing the issues of helping people. In fact, it could probably roll food stamp, WIC, welfare issues, social security, medicare, into one agency whose sole purpose is to address social issues for the poor, infirm, and elderly. I think the social issues are rather spread out. Housing under HUD, social security elsewhere, I'm not sure where welfare and food stamp programs end up. Putting all the social issues of helping people under one "roof" would create a more powerful entity, and having churches taxes going directly into the "social issues" agency would keep the program alive and powerful... Especially, if that's where their "power" as a church within the aspects of politics ends up. It would be very hard to call out "Welfare Queens" when the churches across America send their "tax donation" into the program to help the homeless and poor. How could these so-called fundie Republicans NOT support the agency where the church is directing funds? They would have to care for the innocent people that they normally slash and burn.

[LeftyMom]

52. Shouldn't people find out where their money is going before they give?

And why would a church have a mortgage, when lending for interest is forbidden in the bible and debts are supposed to be forgiven every seven years? By taking out an interest-bearing loan of more than seven years' duration aren't they leading another to sin, by their own belief system?

[Indianademocrat91]

55. God tells them it's okay to do this and break the rules of religion.

Just like it's okay for the pastors to build mega-mansions for their family because it's just God's way... :crazy:

[boppers]

56. Most[1] "Christians" have no idea about the text of the bible.

They likely haven't ever even read it, cover-to-cover, let alone reading multiple translations, or learning the languages and reading original texts (and suppressed texts).

It's just a jumping-off point for the cults, money laundering, and social con-game scams.

<1>Yes, most, but not all. I have actually met a few (as in three, of the many thousands of people I have met) Christians who live lives of non-profit poverty, do not seek to amass personal wealth, and try to dedicate the whole of their lives towards helping others. They're a little less rare than imaginary pink unicorns<2>, but they do actually exist. Oddly enough, the most Christian (in nature) people I meet tend to be Atheists or Deists.

<2> This is an atheist shibboleth <3>.

<3> If you don't know what a shibboleth is, you are not a Christian (even if you think you are), or a Jew (even if you think you are), you are somebody who is in a social cult who has not even read the basic books of the cult you are in.

[eridani]

73. They ;never read it, they just "believe in" it

The most primitive form of religion, dedicated to the proposition that God exists to make your life and the lives of your family and tribe more pleasandt and to destroy those you don't like. Belief to these folks is an in-group loyalty oath and a get out of jail free card.

[TBA]

77. Ha!

My sister told me she was telling her AA group how she was praying to become more tolerant, more forgiving, more gracious and other stuff. Then it struck her... the only person she knew that had the virtues she aspired to gain was her atheist sister (me).

[boppers]

78. You want to talk to somebody who lives the values of Christ?

Talk to an atheist.

[Dragonfli]

59. They are required by their dogma to give a percentage of what they earn, they call it tithing

I have forgotten the percentage they are ordered to give, I think something like 10%.

But they have no choice in the matter unless they wish to betray their faith, they must give it, is a fundy spiritual law (yes, complete with the percentage it must be)


Does anyone know what that number is? it has been years since I audited (sat in, like with college classes, including bible study groups) the fundy denominations as part of research.

[LeftyMom]

61. Ten. It's not just fundies, it's in the OT so they all believe it to some degree.

The Mormons keep books and don't let you go to temple unless you're fully paid up, I don't know of any other group that's quite that blatant in their shakedown.

[oldhippydude]

62. growing up among mormons

i have heard horror stories about the bishops shaking folks down, as well as some young men resisting the "missionary experience" as we used to resist the draft..on the other hand if your a mormon in need, they do take care of their own, having their own welfare system complete with welfare farms..they also look after each other in hiring etc, far more than most denominations

[No Elephants]

80. Many cults "take care of their own" in hiring. I might call it bigotry, though.

And, in some cases, possibly illegal religious discrimination.

As to Mormons, it's a pretty good guaranty of a "whites only" hiring policy, too, maybe even WASPs only. Not 100%, of course, but the odds are there.

As far as their taking care of their own, I saw a Mormon who blogged complaint after complaint about the people in need she was supposedly helping with a few car rides.

Why, oh, why were they asking something of her? Why, oh, why were they not doing more for themselves?

Much like any other Republican might when called upon to lend a hand to someone having a hard time.

[boppers]

96. Scientologists are worse.

Mormons ask you if you're really giving 10% (Yes, I've BTDT). Some Scientologists ask to see your tax returns and pay stubs to *verify* how much you're giving. On top of that, they charge outlandish fees for every "holy book" they sell (and there's a lot of them), every "church retreat" you go to (and there's a lot of them), etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_as_a_business

[LeftyMom]

97. It goes without saying that's a scam.

I almost added something about them, but that would take a long tangent into their special kind of crazy, and since they're not an Abrahamic faith that would be a pretty distant tangent. I decided it probably wasn't worth the trouble.

[boppers]

98. No, they can't be crazy, because in Scientology, being "crazy" is a scam!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_and_psychiatry

(I am a wikipedia editor with 8+ years of experience in editing, the wikipedia articles pertaining to Scientology are one of my "pet" project areas.... very interesting area to work in.)

[ShockediSay]

57. Always the way w/ the big money gospel - false gospel n/t

[No Elephants]

58. Donating to the church is voluntary. Paying taxes is not.

Yes, this is reprehensible, but small potatoes compared to the kleptocracy.

[Dragonfli]

60. Actually to them it is not, they consider tithing to be more important than taxes, they are required

to give, you are making the common mistake many Christians from traditional faiths make, they have different rules than say the Catholic Church, most fundy Christians are even commanded to give an actual percentage.

[No Elephants]

81. No one arrests them or confiscates their property if they don't tithe.

Or if they don't even go to that particular church. Or if they don't go to any church at all.

Regardless of personal religious belief about what God whats or requires of you (which I do understand very well), there is still a real world difference between paying taxes and donating to a church.

The point of my post was that we pay trillions in legally-required taxes without worrying as much about how government spends it as we seem to worry about a corrupt minister to whom no one was forced by secular law to donate.

I guess I just wasn't in the mood when I posted to be distracted by shiny things. Other times, maybe distractions like this from what the kleptocracy is doing to this country are welcome.

BTW, all "people of the book" are directed by the OT to tithe and also to give offerings, not only non-traditional Christians.

[Dragonfli]

85. It's a racket then?

[classysassy]

65. A few rotten apples in the barrel

does not account for all the true believers and Christians,the greedy worshipers of money have always been with us,we should denounce them but not the faithful among us that have turned their lives over to God,the non-believers are not capable of understanding our faith,not until they come into the fold,then you too will see the light and walk in that light that shine so bright,God bless all of you,seek and you shall find and that is a true statement.

[AtheistCrusader]

67. Not until they come into the fold?

You mean, not until I reject reason, logic, parsimony, inquisitiveness, curiousity, judgment, etc, etc.

[Missy Vixen]

69. "A few rotten apples"?

I'm afraid you're wrong. I grew up in a fundamentalist church. It has been shown to me repeatedly that those of faith are VERY small in number, while those who use and take advantage of others "in the church" are legion.

>the non-believers are not capable of understanding our faith,<

It's unfortunate that you can't allow others to define their own belief, or lack of it. They understand perfectly.

[LeftyMom]

70. What a condescending crock of crap. nt

[naaman fletcher]

74. seek and you shall find?

Seek and you shall find that not even the gospels agree with each other on very simple things like the order of events, who was there when the stone was removed from the tomb, etc.

Peddle your crap elsewhere.

[No Elephants]

82. Bait?

[Stuckinthebush]

84. No thanks

Been there and did that. Wasn't impressed.

Logic finally prevailed and I have never been happier.

[snooper2]

87. ROFL

:rofl:

[KurtNYC]

91. "the God I believe in isn't short of cash" n/t

[quakerboy]

94. You mean a few shining examples

in barrels and barrels of apples.

As a christian, my observation is that American Christianity bears no resemblance to anything that Jesus wanted, historically or biblically. The worst thing to happen to Christianity was it becoming acceptable to the Roman Empire. The best thing that could happen today would be for this nation to completely disavow religion. Make it inconvenient. Make it unfashionable. Make it unpowerful. Make it non profitable. Then see who decides to stick with it.

[PatrynXX]

71. mega churches $$$$

saw that headline and thought only one thing. Mega Churches is all about money. if someone's closing one it means, someone kept the money for himself and not the church. looks like thats correct

[DeSwiss]

72. K&R n/t

[BigEd7]

79. Times Like this...I almost think there really is a God.

Almost..

[SemperEadem]

83. a better use of tithe money

is giving 18-20% as tips to wait staff and others who survive on tips for their living, not giving it to a mega-church.

all one needs is written in the red ink--the rest is fluff added to control the illiterate masses. You don't need
a multi million dollar structure to talk to god.

[Blue_Tires]

86. The whole concept of the megachurch needed to die a long time ago

If you pressed them, even my religious relatives who regularly attend one AND donate generously would admit that it's more for the networking/business contacts than anything else...(and for the social circles where they live, you're nobody if you aren't attening some megachurch in the region...

Money had turned church into country clubs without the golf course

[pstokely]

99. Inside "Dr" Johnston's McMansion

http://www.trulia.com/property/3039979666-18425-Canterbury-Ct-Stilwell-KS-66085

[sarcasmo]

103. One more reason the church needs to be taxed.

[pstokely]

100. No moonie bailout?

They bailed out Falwell

[WhiteTara]

88. God doesn't want them to lie to thousands at a time?

Or God doesn't like false prophets? Or?

[Tom Ripley]

89. JE$U$ $AVE$

[Vidar]

102. Wishing the same for Liberty University & Pat Robertson's farcical church.