Venezuela's Chavez condemns US role in Libya

[Zorro]

Source: AP

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on Sunday condemned NATO's bombings in Libya, saying the aim is to seize control of the country's oil wealth.

Chavez has been a staunch defender of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi. He did not say whether he had been in contact with the Libyan leader in recent days and did not refer directly to the rebels who entered the capital of Tripoli on Sunday.

"Let's pray to God for the Libyan people," Chavez said during a televised speech.

Chavez condemned the latest NATO airstrikes in the country, as well as the roles of the United States and some European nations.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/venezuelas-chavez-condemns-us-role-libya-001438656.html

---

If Gadhafi gets out of Libya, I wonder whether he'll end up in Venezuela.

[Firebrand Gary]

1. One dictator speaking in support of the other.

[onehandle]

2. 'That's right, keep eating... Little do you know you're drawing ever closer to the poison donut!'

'There is a poison one, isn't there Smithers?'
_________

Chavez knows that with each dictator that falls, his time come closer and closer.

[Dreamer Tatum]

3. Cognitive dissonance

Ah, the spinning heads of those who worship St. Hugo but want Obama to take credit for Libya.

[EFerrari]

14. There doesn't seem to be such a group.

The people here who agree with Chavez that national sovereignty must be respected also disagree with Obama that Libya's is not worth the whistling.

[cprise]

18. Maybe this will help with your cognition

Apr 14, 2011


Libya all about oil, or central banking?
By Ellen Brown

Several writers have noted the odd fact that the Libyan rebels took time out from their rebellion in March to create their own central bank - this before they even had a government. Robert Wenzel wrote in the Economic Policy Journal:

I have never before heard of a central bank being created in just a matter of weeks out of a popular uprising. This suggests we have a bit more than a rag tag bunch of rebels running around and that there are some pretty sophisticated influences.

Alex Newman wrote in the New American:

In a statement released last week, the rebels reported on the results of a meeting held on March 19. Among other things, the supposed rag-tag revolutionaries announced the "esignation of the Central Bank of Benghazi as a monetary authority competent in monetary policies in Libya and appointment of a Governor to the Central Bank of Libya, with a temporary headquarters in Benghazi."

Newman quoted CNBC senior editor John Carney, who asked, "Is this the first time a revolutionary group has created a central bank


while it is still in the midst of fighting the entrenched political power? It certainly seems to indicate how extraordinarily powerful central bankers have become in our era."

more http://atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MD14Ak02.html

[EFerrari]

19. I know if I were fighting for my life against a genocidal dictator

one of the first things I'd do is create a Central Bank and cut oil deals with the highest bidder, in this instance Qatar. :)

[neoconn]

20. Great find..

Definitely puts this little skirmish into a better perspective...

[EFerrari]

22. Qatar recognises Libyan rebels after oil deal

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/03/201132814450241767.html

Dated March 28, less than six weeks after the initial protest. Pretty slick, imo. :)

[neoconn]

28. Quote from article...

Manouchehr Takin, from the Centre of Global Energy Studies, told Al Jazeera that the deal, if confirmed, would be "a landmine, legally speaking".

"Is this council representing the Libyan people? Only two countries have accepted that. Whether we like it or not, the Tripoli government, by the United Nations, is the legitimate and sovereign government," he said.

"There is also no mechanism for this - there's no central bank , there's no ministry of finance ... I think it's a very risky commercial venture for any company to come and buy this oil.

Follow the money..

[ronnie624]

32. And another:

Whatever might be said of Gaddafi's personal crimes, the Libyan people seem to be thriving. A delegation of medical professionals from Russia, Ukraine and Belarus wrote in an appeal to Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin that after becoming acquainted with Libyan life, it was their view that in few nations did people live in such comfort:

are entitled to free treatment, and their hospitals provide the best in the world of medical equipment. Education in Libya is free, capable young people have the opportunity to study abroad at government expense. When marrying, young couples receive 60,000 Libyan dinars (about 50,000 US dollars) of financial assistance. Non-interest state loans, and as practice shows, undated. Due to government subsidies the price of cars is much lower than in Europe, and they are affordable for every family. Gasoline and bread cost a penny, no taxes for those who are engaged in agriculture. The Libyan people are quiet and peaceful, are not inclined to drink, and are very religious.

*****
If the Gaddafi government goes down, it will be interesting to watch whether the new central bank joins the BIS, whether the nationalized oil industry gets sold off to investors, and whether education and healthcare continue to be free.

[NashVegas]

58. Took a Page Straight Out of the FF's Playbook

Although I'm not a fan of CIA intervention here and other spots in the Middle East, stirring up shit, at least I have to give these "Freedom Fighters" some credit for being serious enough to go do something like this.

[ronnie624]

30. Fascinating article. Thanks for posting. n/t

[Bacchus39]

4. can't wait to hear what he says tomorrow n/t

s

[Ikonoklast]

5. Poor Hugo, losing all his dictator pals one at a time.

After Castro kicks, all he'll is have the North Korean midget left to pal around with.

[socialshockwave]

7. LOL. I love how people here still defend Chavez like he's a hero. n/t

[rainy]

10. He is. He didn't let the plutocrats win. He let the people win and

the plutocrats demonized him. He nationalized the oil so that the people could benefit but that pissed off the business class that want to have all the power and control like they do in the western countries. They lost, the Venezuelan people won.

[Lars77]

11. He´s a corrupt populist looking to set himself up as a permanent dictator.

Don´t be fooled by this guy. The world left is not doing themselves any favours supporting him.

We should be celebrating people like Lula, who are able to combine true democratic principles with good left policy.

[EFerrari]

13. The Dire Predictions File has been accumulating error for the last ten years.

And you know what Lula said about Chavez, don't you?

edit for typo

[Judi Lynn]

21. Doesn't take over a second to find out, for sure,once someone tries to link Lula,Chavez & democracy.

Here's a link to a great post on the subject:

I've seen several versions of Lula da Silva's quote about Chavez and democracy.
Peace Patriot
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4109384&mesg_id=4112373

On edit:
I completely missed this post when it was new. Really glad to see it showing up in a DU search, as that position by Lula is very hard for anyone to dismiss, and they DO try!

[Throd]

8. You can still find a few Bobby Mugabe supporters here.

He hates the West, so he is righteous.

[Posteritatis]

23. That those exist still boggles me

Not quite as much as the handful of North Korea fans ("look at how free they are! their constitution says so!"), but still.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kelly1mm]

36. Not a lie. Here is a DU poll from 2004 where 12% of respondents said Mugabe

was overall a good guy. Admittedly, it is 7 years old but certainly disproves your claim.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1245381

[fascisthunter]

39. and you know who these people are that voted?

you know for sure they aren't trolls? And now you link this poll from seven years ago without knowing who really voted with how people respond to Chavez... you do know people here can think, right? Was this supposed to invalidate what I said above, because it doesn't. It's a big(as they say) FAIL!

[kelly1mm]

47. The statement you said was a lie was that there were supporters of Mugabe

on DU. To vote in a poll you have to be a member of DU. I showed you a poll that had 10 votes that Mugabe was a overall good guy. Thus, at least 10 members of DU at the time supported Mugabe.

You did not qualify your "that's a lie" post with 'except for trolls'.

Your statement has thus been proven false.

It's OK. People are wrong all the time. You will get over it.

[Imajika]

66. Your wrong...

I've been here since 2001 and there were most definitely some Mugabe sympathizers around. Not too many, but there were a few hanging about. Mugabe would make headlines years ago by damning the UK, Blair & Bush, and West in general as imperialist monsters responsible for Zimbabwe's horrible economy, and I suppose some people were receptive and supportive of that message. Hey, Chavez considers Mugabe his "brother", why would you be surprised that others on the left would make the same mistake and embrace Mugabe too. For many folks, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[Throd]

48. I wish it were, but I have seen Mugabe defended on DU

I have also seen one person defend Josef Stalin and a few people say that North Korea isn't nearly as bad as it seems.

[msanthrope]

51. Not at all--google Mugabe and Wikileaks on this site, and you

will find at least one interesting thread supporting Mugabe's investigation of the opposition....

And if you cross-checked this thread, you might see some of the same posters.

[joshcryer]

69. Quell surprise, I did just that out of curiosity.

I'm glad at least one of those people is no longer with us (under that nickname anyway). The others are too discreet with their authoritarianism... :(

[ronnie624]

41. When all is said and done,

Libya will be a theocratic dictatorship with a much higher infant mortality rate, and where women have no standing in society. There will be no more publicly funded education and health care, and all of Libya's key assets and resources will belong to foreign multinationals.

Count on it.

[Psephos]

52. I'd say you pretty much nailed it.

Libya has a choice between frying pan and fire.

[ChangoLoa]

57. Surely, without Gaddhafi, the libyans are a bunch of tribal savages who have no clue

of how to sustain their country. In no time, they'll be back to the 1st millennium! Women will be oppressed because Gaddhafi was their only protector... a true beacon in the darkness for his backward people.
:sarcasm:

[ronnie624]

59. I'm not sure what you mean.

but military intervention by foreign powers isn't what I would call respecting the sovereignty of another country.

[Judi Lynn]

61. How could things get this warped, anyway? Self-designated emperors of the world,

and executioners of everyone who says otherwise.

Impossible to believe there are actually people who haunt message boards trying to flog people who don't believe in the sovereignty of other people and their countries.

Spiritual decay, advanced stage!

[ronnie624]

68. I guess I should have gotten used to it by now,

but I can't help but be astonished over and over again by the unshakable but illogical belief in the American 'right' to intervene in other countries and "destroy the village in order to save it".

[ChangoLoa]

72. heh you clueless little black cloud...

[ChangoLoa]

71. You're playing the fool, I didn't express support for the foreign intervention

I expressed aversion for the poor culturalist projections you made:

"Libya will be a theocratic dictatorship with a much higher infant mortality rate, and where women have no standing in society"

You're basically saying that without Ghaddafi, Libyans will naturally go back to the Middle ages. As if the guy had been some kind of divine providence to them. As if they weren't able to continue to develop now that Ghaddafi is gone after 42 years of absolute power.

And worse, you repeating word by word Ghaddafi's blackmail: that once he's gone Al Qaeda or radical islamists will inevitably take power and organize a "theocratic dictatorship".

How can you just suppose that?

[ronnie624]

73. What I'm really saying is,

self-serving military interventions rarely, if ever, turn out well. The U.S. government doesn't care about democracy in that region of the world, only political and economic dominance.

But I only have history to go by.

[iamthebandfanman]

6. just another criminal using workers rights

to steal for himself...

of course hes upset.

[EFerrari]

15. Link?

[iamthebandfanman]

53. ill go make ya a webpage so i can have a link.

and in big letters itll say 'power corrupts'.


oh wait, i dont need a link for that.

[brooklynite]

9. The mark of a great Leader...timing

Just like Mittens coming out at the last possible minute in opposition to raising the Debt Limit.

[EFerrari]

12. Nope. Chavez has been clear in speaking out against this aggression in Libya

since before NATO started bombing.

[Bacchus39]

54. looks like his buddy Gaddafi is out

[Matilda]

16. He's probably right on the mark about the oil.

The West is very slow to intervene when there's nothing in it for them, no matter how bad the abuse may be.

But I wish he wouldn't translate it into support for a tyrant - it would be better to support the aspirations of the Libyan people while issuing a warning to the West about trying to control the oil.

[Ter]

17. So do I

We have no business there, but our last four presidents LOVE war.

[gordianot]

24. Hugo should get together with Rick Perry and have one gigantic prayer fest.

Christians need to stick together.

[EFerrari]

25. Doesn't Obama close his speeches with "God bless the United States of America"?

[gordianot]

26. Throw in Obama also, invite Pope Rat and the Dali Lhama.

I will stay home and read Mark Twains "War Prayer".

[EFerrari]

27. Chavez has done much better than most Latin American leaders.

Rome HATES him because he cut into their profits so he told them to bug off and supported the establishment of a reformed Catholic Church in VZ. They welcome gays and divorced people and all kinds of things that must give the Pope ulcers.

[Bacchus39]

29. really? in what areas? anyway, I see you support Gaddafi because Chavez does n/t

s

[bitchkitty]

37. Where do you see support for Gaddafi in any of her posts?

That was feeble, even for you.

[Bacchus39]

38. I assume Chavez's position is hers. and yours?

Chavez must be worried his number is up too.

[bitchkitty]

40. I won't engage in your game of cheap shots.

I assume NOTHING of your position. I already know YOUR position. It's pretty obvious.

Off topic, but why don't you run go comment in this thread? I'm curious to see if you show the same level of scorn for a mass murdering devil that you do for the cancer-stricken, democratically elected President of Venezuela.

Some people...

[Bacchus39]

42. "feeble, even for you" I wonder who said that

sure Colombia has a 50 year of violence that includes the FARC, paramilitaries, and the army. numerous atrocities have been commmitted. You'll never see me denying that or making excuses for existing problems in Colombia.

on the other hand, the Chavistas will even defend Chavez for defending someone like Gaddafi.

[bitchkitty]

44. I have never seen you comment about,

or start a topic about, Uribe. Granted, I could have missed something.

[Bacchus39]

45. oh, I have in the Latin American forum for sure. however, he has not been president

for over a year now and I have no particular obsession with him as some here do.

[bitchkitty]

46. So, there is some record of

you heaping scorn on his name, but it's over a year ago, that's what you're saying? You were here then, right? I can't search by member, maybe you can come up with something, okay? LOL

Talk about obsession - that's really calling the kettle black, ain't it, pot? You're obsessed with Chavez, with lying about Chavez, or spreading lies about Chavez, or starting topics based on journalistic hit pieces, lying about Chavez. Do you dream of Chavez? LOL

[EFerrari]

43. The poster was talking about religion.

You're so eager to sh1t fling, you don't even read the posts in context.

[fascisthunter]

35. shhhh... the ignorant cheerleaders don't want to think

[gordianot]

49. No use to try reason or report when discussing with DU Chavez cheerleaders.

I was once told on DU that the consensus on Chavez is and always will be positive the Earth has orbited several times and that view is much more rare.

Rick Perry and Hugo Chavez could really put on a really good show if they would get together.

[EFerrari]

60. That's hilarious. Chavez has had his hands full with Venezuelan teabaggers

for years and you lump him in with Perry? Factless bashing.

[gordianot]

65. In style very similar if not political rhetoric.

Hope he provides Muammar a refuge. Demogouges can be hilarius.

[EFerrari]

67. Nope. They're nothing alike.

Gaddafi led a revolution that wound up with no democratic infrastructure in the state. Chavez did precisely the opposite. And that's why when the US and the Venezuelan teabaggers kidnapped him, the people demanded his return.

[The Northerner]

31. K&R n/t

[fascisthunter]

33. neemyanubnobb

goofy right wing crap.

[unkachuck]

50. I'm glad gadhafi is going or gone....

....but I can understand brother Hugos' concern about the US being able to illegally topple any leader or government at will that displeases our corporate masters and their global ambitions....

....I think the anti-democratically-elected-Hugo-crowd here are just jealous and pissed that brother Hugo has eluded our black-ops hit-men and now the crowd's going without their unemployment extensions....hosing away US tax-payer dollars frivolously on assassinations must make you angry when you're hungry.

[Harmony Blue]

56. Chavez tends to use hyperbole. Anways he

isn't a dictator, and there is no evidence of him becoming a dictator. I agree that this sets up a dangerous precedent when corporations align themselves, and dictate, government agendas.

[rayofreason]

55. Introducing ClubFled! The new Caribbean resort..

..for all of Hugo's friends. Will K-Daffy be the inaugural member? How about the Assad wing or the Mugabe Suite in the future?

[Judi Lynn]

62. "Club Fled?" I presume that's an attempted witticism. Miami has always held this distinction. n/t

[dipsydoodle]

63. A failed attempt in fact.

.

[indurancevile]

64. i see gray isn't something du does very well. at least reading through this thread. good guys,

bad guys -- that seems to be the prevailing frame.

[socialshockwave]

70. Watch. This will be next:

"KIM JONG IL IS MY BEST FRIEND AND I LOVE HIM!!! HUMAN RIGHTS? HA! OYA CHAVEZZZZZZZZZZZZ!"