Feds oppose temporary plan to restrict purchase of sugary drinks with food stamps in NYC

[alp227]

Source: The Washington Post

NEW YORK — A plan by New York City to combat obesity by restricting the purchase of sugary drinks with foods stamps would be too large and complex, federal officials said Friday.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture rejected a waiver request that would have allowed the city to implement the plan, which would have barred food stamp recipients from using their benefits to buy sodas, teas, sports drinks and other sugar-sweetened drinks.

The ban would have applied to any sweetened beverage that contains more than 10 calories per 8 ounces.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Gov. David Paterson announced in October that they would seek a waiver from the USDA to start up a temporary program that would be evaluated before becoming permanent.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/feds-oppose-temporary-plan-to-restrict-purchase-of-sugary-drinks-with-food-stamps-in-nyc/2011/08/19/gIQADHtyQJ_story.html

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Is there any constitutional grounding for these kinds of rules? Among the aims of the Constitution is to "promote the general welfare" of the American people. Whose rights are protected when public benefits have restrictions attached, such as in NYC's food stamp policy on sugary drinks or some states (recently Florida) requiring drug testing for welfare? Are welfare recipients' individual dietary rights more important than taxpayers' right not to fund other people's poor dietary choices? The 14th amendment: "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

[Mojorabbit]

1. I think it is a bad precedent to set

What happens if a mother has children on the school track or football team and wants to buy some gatorade or the like for them? Are people who need assistance not allowed to have an occasional coke? Nanny state behaviour really bothers me.

[midnight]

5. Thank you.

[Bette Noir]

8. Food stamps are intended to buy nourishment for one's own family, not the team.

[Mojorabbit]

19. That is what I posted.

I made no mention of buying for the team?
On edit I see where you may have thought that is what I was saying. I am speaking of buying for one's own children.

[young but wise]

44. Well said.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gormy Cuss]

25. That's exactly the reason that FNS(USDA) has maintained an inclusive list of qualifying foods.

The biggest detail is the level of programming of retailer register systems and the level of employee training needed for compliance. The more complex the rules, the less likely that merchants will participate, especially smaller merchants who are often the only source of food in the community.

There are many in and outside of FNS who would love to kick out all of the caloric but nutritionally void products like soda and they've tried to come up with ways to do so that neither decreased the number of merchants participating nor reduced the ability of recipients to buy calories (and bottom line, any calories are better than none at least in the short term.)

[bonecrusher3k]

3. diabetes

What if your child has diabetes? A common remedy for a low is to drink a 15g sugary drink or some candy. Sipping a gatorade during physical activity is a good way to also manage the lows.

[bhikkhu]

4. Looking at the corn syrup/diabetes link, I'd be in favor

http://www.naturalnews.com/026468_sugar_Amazon_corn.html

Though realizing that probably will make things less convenient for some people on occasion, and probably the whole issue could be sorted out better than it looks like it has been there - hence the "study period" they are proposing.

I don't think the constitution even remotely says anything that would force NYC to pay for sugary drinks.

[saras]

6. Why discriminate against people on food stamps? Why not move it to the liquor store and tax it?

I think we all know perfectly well that the END result of a law like this will be that Pepsi and Coke will somehow have slipped through a loophole, while fruit juice, especially fresh, ends up a banned luxury.

[Bette Noir]

7. Nothing in the law would prevent someone from buying a Coke

or a candy bar with his own money. I can see why sodas and such shouldn't be paid for on the public dime. The ban might be too strict, though, in banning "any sweetened beverage that contains more than 10 calories per 8 ounces." That would exclude a lot of fruit drinks, like cranberry juice cocktail or grapefruit juice cocktail, that are too tart to drink without sweetening.

[elocs]

9. Yes, those ignorant people that our tax dollars are going to feed...

they just don't know what is best for them to eat and drink so they should appreciate that as good Liberals we are simply looking out for their best interests since they cannot do it themselves.

[Demit]

17. No, the idea of limiting what is bought w/food stamps is simply to say, Here's money for necessities

If you qualify for food stamps, it means you are having trouble feeding yourself or yourself and your family. It's great that the government helps you with that. It's great that the government doesn't want you to starve. I don't see anything wrong with saying "however." "However, this aid is not intended for things that aren't necessities."

[elocs]

18. So, perhaps we should put you in charge of determining what are necessities

since it is so easy to determine what is and what is not a "necessity". I can only imagine the spartan diet that a Republican would consider to be "necessities". But beggars cannot be choosers, can they. They should be appreciative that they are not allowed to starve.

[Igel]

26. There is this strain of thought on the left.

It's not just a RW thing.

We know what's best, and you must obey: Whether it's what you can eat, where you can live, what you can do with your stuff and with your money, or what you can think (or at least express in any possible means).

When we do it, we say it's for their own good. We only have their best interests at heart and they don't know what they should want. When they do it, it's fascist oppression of the worst stripe. Mut. mut.

[Demit]

30. It is a matter of what the stipend is intended for. It is not "Here's some money. Do whatever

you like with it." I'm sure that if your brother-in-law came to you for a loan because he had to pay his mortgage, you would not approve of his going to buy a motor scooter with it. You were intending to help him out with his need, not with things he didn't need.

Edited to add: Why, when someone disagrees with you, do you have to look for a hidden nefarious motive behind what they are saying? Why is this subject so black and white that one of us has to be wrong, anyway? And the one who is wrong must be operating from bad motives? I hope you think about this. This is a discussion forum, where people trade opinions, not the Coliseum where we are combatants having to fight to the finish.

[christx30]

38. For Example...

the health insurance mandate.
Bans on smoking in bars.
No toys in Happy Meals
Ban on incandescent light bulbs.
I could go on and on. But I would rather have the freedom to choose.

[Demit]

29. Are you seriously arguing that your body needs soft drinks to survive? Are you really?

[Gemini Cat]

46. Are you seriously suggesting poor people can't decide on their own what

they want to put or not put into their bodies? Are you really? That they can't figure out what is or what isn't good for them? Huh?

[Demit]

47. No, I'm not.

I'm pointing out what the intent of the Food Stamps program is. You are having this fit of outrage all on your own.

[elocs]

10. dupe, again

[golfguru]

11. Food stamps are sold on open market for cash

and the cash can buy anything, including booze and drugs.
It is impossible to police 45 million food stamp recipients.

[BumRushDaShow]

16. Food "stamps" are done by debit card and not so easy to sell. n/t

[golfguru]

24. Stolen automobiles are not easy to sell either

yet millions are stolen and sold. Anything of value can be sold.

[bitchkitty]

21. Untrue.

Food stamps are done by debit card, and the majority of food stamp recipients are not criminals, alcoholics or drug users.

[golfguru]

23. Where did you read "majority" are criminals

in my post? The debit cards can easily be loaned out by people
who are hard up for cash. Anything which has value, such as food stamps,
whether paper vouchers or debit cards can be sold by people who are not
law abiding. That is the real life.

[Gormy Cuss]

27. Yes, and FNS's own estimate of fraudulent usage of this sort is less than one percent.

Furthermore, FNS is constantly looking for new ways to reduce fraudulent use. The fraud rate was much higher when paper stamps were the norm (2.5% about 15 years ago, for example.)

With all of the FNS actions to reduce fraud, one thing that is kept in mind is that fraud prevention tactics should not be so stringent that those who are trying to use their benefit properly are left without good options to buy food.

[golfguru]

31. I hope you are right, but...

and my anecdotal experience with food stamp fraud does go back a few years.
That said, do you seriously believe government has the resources to check
eligibility of 45 million receiving food stamps?

[Gormy Cuss]

40. I'm not basing that statement on anecdotes. In the past I worked on FNS research.

Most of the fraud uncovered is at the retail level (the stores where benefits are used for buying nonfood items,) because that's where the big bucks are AND it's where concerted enforcement has the best payback. Individuals who sell their benefits were harder to track with paper benefits but with EBT it would be fairly easy to link the sold benefits to the beneficiary by electronic means, but I don't know if the agency is doing that.

[Akoto]

42. Whoa. Entirely untrue, and I say that as someone receiving this assistance.

First of all, it's no longer accurate to call them food stamps. Transactions are now handled by the EBT card, which functions like a debit and can't be 'sold' to anyone.

Secondly, you can't buy booze or tobacco products/drugs with food stamps. Stores which are caught doing this get into big trouble. I'm not certain, but the EBT card may even refuse to process them. I know my grocery store's scanner automatically separates EBT goods from cash goods.

[harmonicon]

12. I'm almost completely sure that it's constitutional.

For one, isn't this program administered by the state? If so, you'd have to check the New York constitution.

Apart from that, I think in most (all?) places, you can't use food stamps to by booze, so I don't see why limits couldn't be placed on other things.

[happyslug]

34. Food Stamps is a 100% Federal Program, issued by the State but is Federal in Funding

And the relative law as to Food Stamps are FEDERAL, as are the regulations on who gets them.

[harmonicon]

37. Ok. Thanks for the info.

I knew that it was a combination of federal funds and state administration, but I didn't know that rules were the same between all states.

[pam4water]

13. On 3 dollars a day I don't think anyone is buying much soda anyway.

[jeff47]

28. It's cheaper than your other beverage options, except tap water. (nt)

[canoeist52]

14. Well that would basically exempt all fruit juices from the food stamp list.

They almost all have sugar, hfcs. or corn syrup in them.

[robcon]

15. I think banning some food/beverages, and not others (exception: alcohol) is a bad precedent.

[bigworld]

20. Aren't WIC funds, for example, restricted to certain healthy foods?

[happyslug]

36. Not that I know of, the regulations only address types of food a doctor prescribes.

Food Stamp Regulation:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title07/7cfrv4_02.tpl

WIC Regulations:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title07/7cfrv4_02.tpl

[happyslug]

35. Done in the 1970s, it was illegal to use Food Stamps to boy meat from overseas.

In the 1970s the price of beef in the US reached the highest it had been for quite some time, do to this Argentina started to ship beef to the US for sale. Congress then passed a law FORBIDDING the use of Food Stamps to buy beef NOT raised in the US. Sometimes in the late 1970s or early 1980s this rule was repelled. My point is such bans have existed in the Food Stamps program ever since it was started in the 1960s.

[bitchkitty]

22. Revolting idea.

What's next? This would set a dreadful precedent.

[totodeinhere]

32. I think that those restrictions were proposed with good intentions. After all,

fighting child obesity is a laudable goal. But I would rather see a program that addresses child obesity that focuses on everyone and not just food stamp recipients. I'm not sure exactly what the program should be, but singling out poor people on food stamps is not the answer IMO.

[eilen]

39. I think the states --particularly NY

who funds a good part of its own medicaid program is looking to decrease its costs in this area by prevention. If you consider that a good number of their medicaid and child health plus families also receive food stamps, this seems more like a preventative action to save money as diabetes, over a lifetime is extremely expensive.---Much like the very high taxes NY has put on cigarettes and the restrictions in public places one may smoke.

It does not mean that cigarettes and (if the food stamp soda law passes) would be illegal to consume --provided one was of age for the cigarettes, just they can only be consumed on their own dime, not sponsored by the state.

Of course, if one wanted sugary drinks, it is probably cheaper just to purchase sugar and make sweet tea like they do in the South. As far as I know, one can still buy 10 lbs of sugar with food stamps.

[GeorgeGist]

33. Are sugary drinks food?

[Akoto]

41. Technically, yes, and as someone on food stamps with a disability ...

Sometimes, in the misery that is my life, I want the pleasure of a damn soda. We need help, but we're not less human for it.

[totodeinhere]

43. Well said. I hope that things can get better for you. n/t

[defendandprotect]

45. Should be seen as general, overall guidance for the American public -- but no ban!!