Governor: Wind gust that fell Ind. stage a 'fluke'

[True Blue Democrat]

Source: 9news (AP)

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) - The wind gust that toppled a stage at the Indiana State Fair Saturday night, killing five and injuring dozens of fans waiting for the country band Sugarland to perform, was a "fluke" that no one could have anticipated, the governor and others said Sunday.

The wind was far stronger than that in other areas of the fairgrounds, said Dan McCarthy, chief meteorologist for the National Weather Service in Indiana. He estimated the gust at 60 to 70 mph.

Gov. Mitch Daniels said precautions were taken before the storm, but no one could have foreseen such a strong gust focused in one place. Some witnesses have said that while a storm was expected, rain hadn't begun to fall when the wind sent the stage rigging falling into the crowd of terrified fans.

"This is the finest event of its kind in America, this is the finest one we've ever had, and this desperately sad, as far as I can tell fluke event doesn't change that," Daniels said.

Four people were killed when the metal scaffolding that holds lights and other stage equipment fell, and a fifth died overnight at a hospital, Indiana State Police 1st Sgt. Dave Bursten said. The county coroner's office identified the victims as Alina Bigjohny, 23, of Fort Wayne; Christina Santiago, 29, of Chicago; Tammy Vandam, 42, of Wanatah; and two Indianapolis residents: 49-year-old Glenn Goodrich and 51-year-old Nathan Byrd. Byrd died overnight.

Read more: http://www.9news.com/news/article/213407/339/Governor-Wind-gust-that-fell-Ind-stage-a-fluke-*

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A fluke?

Is this true? Is the State Fair location in a known gusty area?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Myrina]

2. ... the front coming thru looked like a black comforter over the city ...

... literally went from a partly cloudy evening to midnight black, and there was no rain just thunder and wind.
That said, they sure as HELL could see it coming from far enough away to start evacuating the crowd.
I live about 15 minutes NW of that part of the city.

And I have to ask why that stage monstrosity was built like that in the first place? 40 or 50 feet shorter with maybe less 'wide open space' and it may not have toppled over like a cheap tv tray.

[underpants]

10. another DU'er was there

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4960447&mesg_id=4960556

[Bluenorthwest]

3. Shoddy design, cut corners, undertrained crew

This should never happen, period. This statement of his is fairly disgusting in that it is largely an announcement that no one is accountable, and an admission that none of the producers would be able to avoid a similar event from happening again.

[SpiralHawk]

7. Republicons do not do accountability or responsibility

Every American should have realized that long ago...the pattern is strong.

[BUG_BUG]

18. How Many More Deaths?

This has been happening way too much lately --shoddy set up of stages and not having proper warning mechanisms in place to protect fans and crews from this and then innocent lives being taken as a result.

A lady was killed in Alberta at the Big Valley Jamboree and the production company -Premier Global Production Company Inc of Nashville just had 33 charges laid against them for lack of safety precautions as they should.

These groups need to be held accountable for the safety of others. How many more deaths need to occur?
Bless the families of the all the victims who perished. Such a tragedy. These groups need to be held accountable on all fronts for incidents like this.

Here is the Big Vally article:

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/29/charges-laid-in-big-valley-jamboree-stage-collapse

[ChrisBorg]

21. So now Union labor is undertrained? ISTSE local #30.

http://www.iatse30.org/ Look at their calender ..... Aug. 13.....ISF...Sugarland.
Spurious accusations only reflect poorly on the accusers.

[izquierdista]

4. No one could have foreseen?

Only a union construction crew or an OSHA inspector.

[snappyturtle]

5. As I understand it, it was a union crew. nt

[izquierdista]

12. I'm surprised.....and disappointed

[Myrina]

14. Yes, it was .. Stagehands Local #30.

n/t

[reggie the dog]

6. the National Weather Service

had the area under a moderate severe weather risk and there was no way any one could have predicted winds of 60 to 70 mph????

[underpants]

9. Is there really a reasonable risk that the whole thing could fall down in those wind speeds?

if there is such a risk:
a. it needs to be redesigned
b. it should never have been approved by the local code authority
c. this was waiting to happen

[kurtzapril4]

27. No. There wasn't.

There is absolutely no way to predict localised severe downdrafts or straight line winds that can be part of a thunderstorm.

Warm air is sucked up by the thunderstorm, and it rises as warm air does. As it rises, it cools. Any precip in the system cools it further. The cool, dense air sinks very rapidly. When this air hits the ground, it splays out, usually in the direction the storm is moving. A gust front. This is a very localised phenomenon that can't be predicted yet.

Since the doppler indicated heavy rain, and the I/R showed cloud-tops in the area were @ 40K + feet...the event SHOULD have been postponed until the storm passed.

[aquart]

8. Hasn't this been happening rather often lately?

[ShockediSay]

24. +

[LanternWaste]

32. Weather?

"Hasn't this been happening rather often lately?..."

Weather? It's been happening for quite some time...

[paranoid floyd]

11. This happened in Alberta at a country show.

Some friends of mine had played earlier in the day and were just hanging out in their tour bus. Someone had remarked that the skies looked rather dark, but prairie storms can look quite ominous - tornados and the like are quite rare.

Within an amazingly short amount of time things turned horrible, a massive gust of wind seemingly came out of nowhere taking down the upper section of the stage, injuring many and killing one woman. One friend mentioned that next to their bus, a tent had been set up and when the wind came it just disappeared in seconds and was never found.

I can't speak to stage construction/safety but the way they described the wind and how things chained so quickly, you wonder what anyone could do. It does seem like the rigging overtop of the stage contains too many light fixtures and flown speaker cabinets. It might come down to an overall design flaw more that construction - not so much how it was assembled that way, but why was it assembled that way.

[CarmanK]

13. Don't buy it! There are building standards for PUBLiC events!

And, the first thing to be examined is WHO the contractor was, Who the state inspector was and then were the building standards applied. This could well be a careless disregard for life, the govt not doing its job and/or a contractor not doing his job.

[Marnie]

15. They are called down bursts or straight line winds

and in fact are quite common and to be expected from the type of severe localized storm that we see in the videos.
Winds can reach hurricane force.
With changing weather patterns and this summer's unusual heat many parts of the country are experiencing the types of local weather events that are common across the tornado belt in the sprig.

Get used it. Learn to recognize those types of storms and take sensible precautions.

[tblue37]

26. We had one of those microbursts here in Lawrence, KS, a few

years ago. The power of that wind was amazing--and it all happened very suddenly. I stepped out in the front yard to look at the sky, to gauge how long before the storm would get here--and the wind suddenly ripped my neighbor's Bartlet pear tree out of the ground and threw it right at me! I scrambled backward as fast as I could (landing hard on my rump), and the top branches of the tree missed me by maybe 2 inches at the most.

The violence of that wind burst was exceeded only by its suddenness.

[snappyturtle]

33. There's a caveat and it was pointed out this A.M. on CNN.

Oddly enough no other structures on the Midway had any damage!. I think that is VERY odd. Could be a combination of poor design and wind.

[starroute]

16. Gusts like that are not so rare

I once lived in a carriage house on a farm that was on the peak of a ridge, and the winds there when a storm came through could get pretty fierce. One time an entire metal grain dryer was ripped off its foundation and hurled to the other side of the farmyard. And that wasn't the only such event.

Also, gusts like that typically do come through before the rain starts. I suppose it's something to do with the temperature difference between the storm area and the area just ahead of it. But I do have any number of childhood memories involving first chasing after beach towels or picnic gear that were trying to blow away and then hurrying to get under shelter before the rain started. And other adolescent memories of deliberately standing in the pre-storm winds and feeling exhilarated by them.

So calling it a "fluke" seems beyond stupid. It might be considered a freak accident for the entire set to collapse, but it wouldn't have taken much smarts to foresee some sort of trouble when the clouds rolled in.

[tabasco]

17. Strong wind blowing across the plains.

Whoooda thunk it?!?! :dunce:

[Chipper Chat]

19. The Indiana State Fairgrounds just might be a "weather anomaly" area.

In 1968 or 1969 ( I cant remember the exact year) our high school marching band was lined up on the fairgrounds track waiting to peform in the annual band contest. It was a beautiful sunny August day ALL OVER THE STATE OF INDIANA when suddenly the skies darkened and the rain started pouring. The band from Richmond was performing in front of us. They were allowed to finish but their red and blue uniforms became wet rags as they stomped around in the mud. The performance was halted at that point and we had to leave the track and go back to our busses where frantic parents tried to clean off our unfortunately mostly white uniforms. Then after about 20 minutes of a solid downpour (not much wind though) the rain stopped, the sun returned, and the sky became blue again. We returned to the track and did our show. Our director was dismayed that due to the unexpected break our momentum and drive had waned (and our score showed it). It was only the next day that I learned it had not rained anywhere the entire day EXCEPT ON A 5-MILE SQUARE AREA OVER THE INDIANA STATE FAIRGROUNDS.

[liberal N proud]

20. You know, these things just happen - there is nothing anyone can do!

:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:

[LittleGirl]

22. Don't care for Gov Daniels

but I saw his news conference. He had to pause several times as he choked up with tears. The guy is still human and his 'words' were off the cuff. I'll give him a pass.

Let the lawsuits begin but that other thread on DU gives some good info from someone that used to build them. he didn't design them but he built them.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1739655&mesg_id=1739655

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

23. Here is a fucking crazy idea, indoor venues!

One of my friends is a musician you have heard of and his band won't play outdoor shows like this period after one of their techs got seriously injured about a decade ago.

[NashVegas]

25. Sure Have Been a Lot of Flukes Lately

But of course, climate change and bad judgment have little to do with it. The guys in Cheap Trick say otherwise.

http://www.spinner.com/2011/08/01/cheap-trick-ottawa-bluesfest-black-keys/

In related news, Billboard.biz reports that the Black Keys may have been the first band to raise concerns about the Mega-Stage set-up when they played the stage in question for a gig nearly ten days before the incident in Ottawa.

According to "sources," the duo's management noticed a flapping wind panel and requested it be repaired. When stage crew didn't fix the panel, Black Keys' management pulled the group from the stage until it was fixed. This latest news doesn't bode well for Mega-Stage and the crew on hand at Bluesfest considering the account given to Billboard by one of the roadies working the fest in Ottawa.

"The windwall on stage left was not released and had tore," the roadie said. "It was blowing in the wind, which was about 60 miles an hour, for over an hour and the stage crew did nothing about it. That probably put a strain on the stage's structure."

There is also speculation the repairs were done using steel cables, making them nearly impossible to cut compared to the plastic zip ties usually used. But Groupe Berge's Vice-President Stephane Berger denies the presence of steel cables were used.

[defendandprotect]

28. Not a fluke - -this is becoming more common with Global Warming breathing down our necks!!

We are now only beginning to feel the effects of human activity from 1960 --

that's because there was a 50 year gap in our feeling the effects of Global Warming --

other than the melting of the glaciers which began in 1940's!!


Also note that Global Warming has the power to change weather systems -- oceans --

and that the melting of the glaciers is also bringing increasing numbers of earthquakes

-- and increases in their severity. Same is true of other chaotic weather events we

are experiencing -- cyclones, tornados, storms, hurricanes --


We need to be putting pressure on govenrmens to begin to shut down nuclear reactors --

it takes 6 months to properly shut down those we have in US but I don't know if that

includes the WASTE?

Those in Japan -- Fukushima -- will take a full year to properly shut down -- and don't

know either if that includes WASTE disposal?

This is something we need to move on -- it may make the difference between "a whimper

or a bang."

[applegrove]

29. Wind microburst collapsed a concert stage in Ottawa in June, 2011.

[Necronomiconomics]

30. G-O-D was speaking if it was a rap show or Glee concert ... Wait, what?

It was a COUNTRY MUSIC concert?

Never mind

[yellowcanine]

31. "while a storm was expected, rain hadn't begun to fall... no one could have foreseen..." Bullshit!

Ok I don't buy this excuse. When a storm is spotted on radar and approaching, the proper procedure is to immediately evacuate people from vulnerable structures. Winds of 60 mph are not that unusual for thunderstorms in August. Localized microbursts associated with thunderstorms are well known if not well understood events. Precautions should have been taken as soon as it was clear that the storm was approaching the area of the fairgrounds. And since when does one wait for rain to begin to fall before seeking shelter from a thunderstorm? The biggest danger is lightening, which can strike well before there is any rain. The same is true of high winds. Any lifeguard knows that the pool gets evacuated as soon as lightening is spotted or it is clear on radar that a storm is approaching. You do not wait until it begins to rain. Hello!