Greece's healthcare system is on the brink of catastrophe

[alp227]

Source: The Guardian

Adonis Kostakos is unemployed and diabetic. Aged 50, he last worked regularly four years ago in the port of Piraeus. Back then he used Greece's public hospital system to have his blood sugar checked and get his medication.

These days, receiving no unemployment benefit, he cannot afford to pay for his drugs or the new €5 hospital fee introduced as part of Greece's austerity measures.

So today Kostakos has come to a free clinic in the shipbuilding town of Perama, where he lives, to pick up his medication. The drop-in surgery run by the global charity Médecins du Monde was originally set up to cater for illegal immigrants. But today, there are only native Greeks.

Posters on the wall show war and famine, but the solitary doctor, George Padakis, 30, is dealing with a different kind of catastrophe – victims of the financial meltdown, which has pushed Greece's health system to the brink.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/05/greece-healthcare-brink-catastrophe

[Citizen Worker]

1. Parasitic banksters are bailed out while the people go wanting for the basics of life. What else is

new?

[Cool Logic]

3. Actually, the Greek people elected the government that was responsible for the "parasitic" tactics.

"...the government of Greece had misreported the country's official economic statistics...In the beginning of 2010, it was discovered that Greece had paid Goldman Sachs and other banks hundreds of millions of dollars in fees since 2001 for arranging transactions that hid the actual level of borrowing.

The purpose of these deals made by several subsequent Greek governments was to enable them to continue spending while hiding the actual deficit from the EU.

[blank space]

4. Sooooooo

In other words, the Greek People are paying to bail out the banks - JUST LIKE HE SAID>>>>


The banks have a risk in lending to Greece, if they did not do their due diligence, then they lose their money, forcing the people of Greece to pay for illegal and illegitimate banking practices is wrong.

Same with Ireland, Italy, America and everywhere else.

The only place that has done the right thing is Iceland - and now they are well on the road to recovery.

[Cool Logic]

5. It was the Greek people who elected the government to represent them...

and they were also the ones who *consumed* the borrowed assets.

Thus, the Greek people are at least as responsible, if not more so, than the banks.

[katsy]

6. The corrupt politicians, the private sector

elites and the banksters did the consuming.

The poor working class had taxes taken out of their paychecks to pay for their benefits.

Farmers (my cousin is one of these) make little for their labor and always have. Farmers didn't get rich on these borrowed assets.

The doctors and lawyers and entrepreneurs, the politicians and banksters did all the consuming. Luxury cars and multiple homes and they declare $30K income. They never paid taxes!

Look around you here in America... do you think that people living on welfare or the working poor were responsible for the economic basket case the U.S. has become? Did they benefit from the corruption and piggishness of the banksters and Wall St. Did they okay no bid contracts for never ending wars on poor people in other countries? Did they make a killing on market? Really?

Why punish those who have little to begin with, and gained NOTHING of the stolen treasures? The working poor in most countries usually don't receive checks from Goldman Sachs. If you place any more austerity on their already humble lives at least have the decency to offer them euthanasia services. What is left to take but their lives?

[Tempest]

8. He is blaming the victims, which is disgusting. n/t

[katsy]

9. Exactly.

My cousin is a dirt poor farmer who, like most working poor has always dotted the i's and crossed his t's in his dealing with taxes. Government comes down very hard on the easiest bait, just like the IRS here, on the poor who can't defend themselves or make enough to save offshore. His children are in public schools, and he relies on the public health system. The whole family works the farm that has been in our family forever. No big house... nothing. A working family.

The poor and programs for the poor are always the easiest targets for the corrupt slime at the top.

[Cool Logic]

12. Greece's government failed to reform the economy and reduce public spending,

when it joined the eurozone. Government debt was bigger than their entire economy last year and is forecast to exceed 120 per cent of GDP this year.

Yes, Greece is full of tax cheats; however, that is not their only problem. Greece has been living beyond its means for years. The Government has borrowed heavily and been on a spending spree it couldn't afford. Public service wages increased 30 per cent in the previous five years and workers were paid a bonus just for arriving to work on time!

In any case, if you define austerity as "punishment," you will be pleased to know that everyone is being punished.

* Public sector limit of €1,000 introduced to bi-annual bonus, abolished entirely for those earning over €3,000 a month.
* An 8% cut on public sector allowances and a 3% pay cut for DEKO (public sector utilities) employees.
* Limit of €800 per month to 13th and 14th month pension installments; abolished for pensioners receiving over €2,500 a month.
* Return of a special tax on high pensions.
* Changes were planned to the laws governing lay-offs and overtime pay.
* Extraordinary taxes imposed on company profits.
* Increases in VAT to 23%, 11% and 5.5%.
* 10% rise in luxury taxes and taxes on alcohol, cigarettes, and fuel.
* Equalization of men's and women's pension age limits.
* General pension age has not changed, but a mechanism has been introduced to scale them to life expectancy changes.
* A financial stability fund has been created.
* Average retirement age for public sector workers has increased from 61 to 65.
* Public-owned companies to be reduced from 6,000 to 2,000.

[brentspeak]

17. Greece's debt exploded in part because Goldman Sachs helped the gov't hide the scale of their debt

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/business/global/14debt.html?pagewanted=all

And since this was all hidden from the public, the public can hardly be blamed, even if their government ok'd the deals.

[Tempest]

28. Exactly right

He needs to get educated on Greece and Europe's problems.

I recommend he start with the documentary Inside Job.

[katsy]

22. Austerity will not fix their economic problems.

An interesting perspective on this crisis:


http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/8794/



And no, I do not for one minute think that punishing the working poor is fair.

Tell me what you think is reasonable to take from them? Food? Health care? Social safety nets should not be on the table.

To take away health care or food from the already hungry and sick is horrific and while it may not fit the strict definition of a genocide, the aftermath may be just as unconscionable. No one should be denied health care. No one should go hungry.

As far as the structural changes to the economy you lay out above, without enforcement of tax laws, and without meaningful regulations on the financial sector, it will not solve the problems.

[Tempest]

7. You're blaming the victims

The people didn't vote them into office to defraud them.

Unless you're saying that the American people voted in their elected officials for the express purpose of giving the county away to the banks. Which is completely crazy talk.

[Imajika]

11. You need to stop absolving the voters...

...for their terrible decisions.

Greece is a democracy and it's people voted for these politicians - over and over and over again.

All over the Western world, voters in many countries have voted for corrupt politicians who've made promises they kept only by running up massive debt. People, organizations and yes, governments need to live within their means - and Greece simply was not doing that. Now they are paying dearly for it.

And yes, the American people are doing the same thing.

Greece should have had MUCH higher taxes on the wealthy, cleaned up their absolutely corrupt tax system where cheating was so routine it was almost a joke, streamlined their social safety net system so it was better aimed at helping only those who needed it, and otherwise balanced their books.

Politicians will ALWAYS over promise and avoid telling people they need to pay more for the services they want. ALWAYS. It is up to the voters to be responsible enough not to vote for policies that will destroy them, and if they don't then they are responsible for the outcome.

If Americans keep voting for Republicans who refuse to raise the revenue necessary to fund the social services most Americans expect, then yes, the American people are responsible for the disaster that will result from it. If Americans decide they don't want a social safety net to protect those in need, then they have a responsibility to demand it be cut to the point the funds we take in can cover it. Either way, we should be living within our means. The truth is, Americans DO want a strong social safety net and EVERY poll shows this - therefore the American public needs to grow up and insist on higher taxes on those who can easily afford to pay them.

[IScreamSundays]

16. .....

Sort of like when they tell you one thing and get into office and fugging do the exact opposite, is that kind of what you are talking about??

[Tempest]

27. He's really reaching

And I'm not buying it.

[Cool Logic]

13. "Victims...?" Well, I suppose they are victims of their belief in the notion of a "free lunch."

[brentspeak]

19. Demonstrate to us that Greek citizens were aware that their gov't was hiding Greece's debt

using Goldman Sachs' accounting. If so, then you'd be correct.

If not, you're just cluelessly recycling right-wing talking points.

[Jazzgirl]

21. Deleted. posted in the wrong place.

[The2ndWheel]

26. Was anyone/Were enough people in Greece asking those questions during the good times?

Or was it like anywhere else, that as long as things are good, nobody really cares how it got good?

[Tempest]

29. How the fuck can they ask questions if they don't know what is happening?

It's that fucking simple.

[The2ndWheel]

30. Wouldn't that be the perfect time to ask questions?

It would seem like the best time to ask questions is when things are going well. Except that's not when anyone anywhere asks any sort of question, since nobody, anywhere, ever, wants to be that guy. Then when things start going wrong, which they inevitably do for a variety of reasons, nobody is ready for it, and each side blames the other.

[Tempest]

33. Your circular logic has deflated

I suppose you're going to tell me you were asking questions in the 1990s during that boom.

Don't bother responding, I'm not going to believe you for a second.

[Cool Logic]

32. If you believe that they were not aware, then you probably also believe that there is $2.6 trillion

in the SS trust fund.

...Goldman helped the government quietly borrow billions,...That deal, hidden from public view because it was treated as a currency trade rather than a loan,

The US Congress treats SS as an off-balance-sheet liability to conceal the severity of our deficit. Do you believe that the American People were not aware of this? Or do you believe that they didn't care so long as they were getting their goodies from Washington? When something appears to be to good to be true, it usually is.

As your avatar once said:

The principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.

It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.

[bread_and_roses]

10. That's a bucket of RW spew

... right - WORKERS and the POOR crashed the economy! Sure.

[Cool Logic]

15. And that is just plain ol' generic spew...

For it is abundantly clear that Greek "democracy" represents a manifestation of corruption--morally corrupt Representatives representing a morally corrupt electorate.

[bread_and_roses]

18. Oh, now it's a "morally corrupt electorate?"

really? So I guess the diabetic in the OP is somehow "morally corrupt" for expecting that in a civilized society he not be allowed to just die because he's out of work?

If the "electorate" in Greece is so "morally corrupt" it would seem they are far less adept at corruption than our Multi-National Corporate Overlords, who've benefited so generously - so much so that a few % of them, for instance, now own most of the wealth in the US, while workers wages, benefits and rights are crushed, for instance - while in contrast, the "corruption" of the "electorate" seems to have netted them a place in the breadline, if they are healthy enough to stand there.

If the "electorate" is so "morally corrupt" and self-responsible for a global financial "crisis" that seems to have resulted in a "crisis" for workers and even more wealth for the Oligarchs, then surely they must be "punished," yes?

Tell you what. I'll line up a selection of children, disabled, sick, elderly, and unemployed and you decide which/how many of them dies to pay for the sins of the workers and the poor - and then you do the deed yourself, OK?

[katsy]

23. And the people of Fukashima are to blame

that their elected officials lie to them about the levels of radiation they are exposed to. The electorate is to blame, right?

The average Greek person is no more morally corrupt than any average human being of any country.

That is insulting.

[Cool Logic]

24. "The electorate is to blame, right?"

Ultimately, they are...

And it is regrettable that they blame everyone else but themselves.

Thus, I agree: "The average Greek person is no more morally corrupt than any average human being of any country."

[katsy]

25. Thank you.

I fear for my country. Most of my family is there. I was born there.

They need a tough IRS and jobs.

[Cool Logic]

31. I apologize if my comments appeared to single out Greeks; for that was not my intent.

In fact, I'm quite certain that each side of the political spectrum in Greece endeavors to blame the other for their problems. And just as both sides in the US are correct, both sides in Greece are correct. For both sides are responsible for consuming that which they stole from the future.

I bet they blame everyone else but themselves too...just like we do here in the US.

I sincerely hope that the People of Greece have the courage to do what it takes to stabilize their economy. To do so, they may be forced to swallow some loss of sovereignty with respect to their finances for a while. The goal is to cut the budget deficit to less than 3 per cent of GDP by 2014. If they are able to it, they will have corrected their problems far more quickly than the US appears poised to do.

[IScreamSundays]

14. wtf is the dif?

all are governments are sold out to banksters.

[dixiegrrrrl]

34. Substitute the word "Greek" for "USA" in those sentences and you have same thing.

AND Goldman makes a huge profit when a country's debt is downgraded.

[xchrom]

2. recommend

[lovuian]

20. Austere measures only steal from the poor and lower classes

it destroys economies