BREAKING: Secretary of Defense & Joint Chiefs To Certify Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell Repeal Tomorrow

[jefferson_dem]

Source: Think Progress

Julian Barnes, Pentagon reporter for the Wall Street Journal, is reporting via Twitter that Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta and the Joint Chiefs of Staff are expected to certify tomorrow that the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell “is consistent with the standards of military readiness and effectiveness, unit cohesion, and military recruiting and retention.” The certification requirement was a key component of the compromise that allowed the repeal to finally move through Congress last December. The repeal will then go into effect 60 days after President Obama makes the same certification.

Read more: http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2011/07/21/275937/breaking-secretary-of-defense-joint-chiefs-to-certify-dont-ask-dont-tell-repeal-tomorrow/

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:patriot:

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[Tx4obama]

2. Bravo! n/t

[Name removed]

Deleted message

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[Tx4obama]

3. Also NBC

http://twitter.com/BreakingNews/status/94161413622345729
BreakingNews
Pentagon to announce Friday that defense secretary, joint chiefs have certified that military is ready to repeal Don't Ask Don't Tell - NBC

[PuffedMica]

4. K&R

[Firebrand Gary]

5. An example of extrodinary leadership....

A few weeks back most of my friends flipped out over the Obama administration asking for a stay on the immediate federal repeal of DADT. That made me a little uneasy, however the last three years have taught me to wait and see what the "Obama big picture" is.

The line "The certification requirement was a key component of the compromise that allowed the repeal to finally move through Congress last December".

This is where I will remind myself that the President has to keep not only his word to me and my constituency but also his word to congress, allowing for continued level of positive, trustworthy and productive working relationship.

That is extrodinary leadership.

[Tx4obama]

7. Thank you for your voice of reason :) n/t

[dbackjon]

10. No, extraordinary leadership would have this repealed in the first 90 days

Obama was dragged kicking and screaming into this.

And he still doesn't believe in equality for all Americans.

[FreeState]

16. Not to mention protections for LGB service members were stripped from the repeal n/t

[No Elephants]

60. I was not aware of that. Shameful, but thanks for the info.

[Ikonoklast]

25. Goalposts Moved.

That didn't take long.

[Cherchez la Femme]

84. If

"protections for LGB service members were stripped from the repeal", as FreeState mentioned here, above

then WHAT goalposts were in actuality moved, pray tell?

[readmoreoften]

31. +1

[Tx4obama]

42. That is not true. n/t

[No Elephants]

61. Sure it is, factually, legally and morally.

[dbackjon]

81. What is not true?

Obama DOES not believe in equality for All Americans. That is a FACT that can NOT be refuted.

And apparantly you don't either

[MNBrewer]

11. that was about 1 week ago

and the court gave the Administration 10 days to tell them what they were going to do. This should go through both routes, as it has been, both the legislative and judicial, until it is completely finished.

[Number23]

20. What an interesting post

Alot of people were perplexed/dismayed when it appeared that the repeal was repealed by the federal appeals court. I didn't understand it at all. But five minutes of research turned up that

a) the "repeal of the repeal" was only temporary (which it obviously was as this OP points out); and
b) no military personnel were to be discharged or even investigated during the temporary repeal.

"But the order also blocks the military "from investigating, penalizing or discharging anyone from the military pursuant to the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy." http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/16/us-military-gays-idUSTRE76F14Z20110716

Glad to see this gone altogether though. And yes, the president and the Dem leadership have gotten alot of encouragement and support from smart folks on this, as I think that they should.

[dbackjon]

22. Um - that is wrong

Service members HAVE been discharged.

[Number23]

24. There's no need to play this game, okay?

The service members made a deliberate effort to be discharged because they no longer wanted to be in the military. This was all BEFORE the "repeal of the repeal" that I referred to in my link. We've all seen the topics. We all know what's going on.

If you want to be angry for no reason, do your thing. I genuinely could not care less.

[FreeState]

26. That is 100% wrong - the military was actively trying to discharge a gay man that did not want out

http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/07/08/Airmans_Discharge_Suspended_Following_Ninth_Circuit_DADT_Ruling/

In response to a federal appeals court’s Wednesday order barring further enforcement of “don’t ask, don’t’ tell,” a Pentagon official wrote Friday that the military will begin accepting enlistments “without regard to sexual orientation” and will “ensure immediate compliance” with the court ruling that prohibits further discharges under the policy.

Since the 9th Circuit Court of Appeal's ruling earlier this week, one service member facing discharge under DADT told The Advocate that officials have halted his separation proceedings.

Airman 1st Class Justin Dailey said Friday that he had been served with discharge paperwork on June 9 after his sexual orientation came to the attention of his command. Dailey, 25, said he did not make a voluntary statement on his sexual orientation and was not seeking separation from the Armed Forces.

[Number23]

30. Your article states that the "separation proceedings have been halted"

So he has NOT been discharged. And this ONCE AGAIN happened before the "repeal of the repeal" from the court of appeals that was the thrust of my initial post.

For God's sake. What is there to argue about? DADT is done. It's gone! This is a good thing for God's sake!!

[FreeState]

35. No this was stopped by the court two weeks ago

And yes it's close to being over, it isn't yet and it won't be for at least 60 days if not longer. I was pointing out that the DOD was in the process of kicking out a gay man that did not want out when the court ruled. That is contrary to your statement that only gays who wanted out were being discharged under DADT. Weather it's over or not the truth is important.

[Number23]

37. Your article states

"Since the 9th Circuit Court of Appeal's ruling earlier this week, one service member facing discharge under DADT told The Advocate that officials have halted his separation proceedings."

My initial point was that no one was to be discharged or even investigated under the "repeal of the repeal." Your article BOLSTERS my point beautifully, particularly the bit that states: "Since the 9th Circuit Court of Appeal's ruling earlier this week, one service member facing discharge under DADT told The Advocate that officials have halted his separation proceedings." which was the entire point of my initial post.

You can go on arguing/nitpicking but I'm just going to be happy that this is gone now.

[FreeState]

38. You stated the DOD was only kicking out gays that wanted to be out - not true n/t

[Number23]

39. BUT HE WAS NOT KICKED OUT! Arrrgghhh!!!!!!

I am about to pull my hair out! You are DETERMINED to argue and find fault with this. DETERMINED!!!!

You know what, it's not worth it. It is SIMPLY not worth it. I'll believe what I'll believe (based on legitimate news sources) and you believe what you believe. We'll just leave it at that. See ya.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

56. Dupe

[No Elephants]

57. Because a court ruling suspended discharges, not because the DOD refrained of its own volition.,

Besides, being discharged is only part of it. Having to be closeted and living in fear of being kicked out is another.

It ain't over 'til it's over.

[Number23]

89. Well, I don't know what happened to the subthread

At this point, I don't really care either. Maybe one day we'll be able to discuss good news surrounding gay issues here. The rest of the world and even most of the Internet is happy with this news. That's good enough for me.

[Cherchez la Femme]

83. More than one gay man,

and gay wommin, too.

(Edit: Yes, I realize you were speaking of one specific case, but I wanted to mention all the separations that have occurred since 'the end of DADT' was 'announced')


I can't count how many times I've read posts dealing with WHY they couldn't just stop the action of DADT --booting out gay servicemembers-- while the repeal was 'in process'.


Ended up, the courts took care of it -- and thanks to the Log Cabin Republicans!

Just another disconnect in this crazy country...

[No Elephants]

64. Since when is simply correcting a factual error in a post being angry for no reason?

Wow.

[readmoreoften]

29. How about an example of doing the least possible to get reelected by a community.

If you feel this is EXTRAORDINARY leadership, I pity you.

[swilton]

40. Part of Obama's strategy of dividing the left

Well done! :sarcasm:

[dennis4868]

44. Obama is a chess....

player...can't judge him on 1 move....judge him on the end result! www.whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com

[No Elephants]

58. Because the troops discharged and living in fear since January 2009 are not

real people and did not have real lives ruined?

CP,MA

And that list is a hoot.

[Cherchez la Femme]

85. Ze list, boss! Ze list!!

[AlbertCat]

51. An example of extrodinary leadership....

I'm sorry. I missed the extraordinary part. It musta be hiding behind the hemming and hawing and reluctance and vagueness and dragging out leadership.

[No Elephants]

59. Letting people be discharged while the CIC insists that only Congress can

do anything, much like Bubba before him.

Truman ordered racial integration of the military, much more controversial then than ending DADT is now, via Executive Order.

"Separate, but {supposedly} equal is fine," was still the law of the land. The South was still under Jim Crow and would be for years and the South had gone solidly Democratic after the Emancipation Proclamation and had remained so.

Truman did not worry about his own re-election or about getting political cover for himself or his Party. He realized a grievous moral wrong and used his Constitutional power as CIC to correct it, with seeking political cover from anyone.

Now, THAT was extraordinary leadership.

[No Elephants]

65. LOL!

[Cherchez la Femme]

82. It's extraordinary in its simultaneous approval and negation

(and that's putting it nicely)

but at least it's

almost

done.

[awoke_in_2003]

6. about fucking time...

on edit: K&R

[AtomicKitten]

8. Finally. nt

[lunatica]

9. Not a minute too soon

It's about time! We can now step out of the Dark Ages and into the 21st Century.

[yardwork]

34. There are still a lot of discriminations against gay people enshrined in law, but this is a victory.

It looks like we will soon be good enough to die for our country. Maybe someday we will be good enough to be allowed to marry.

[No Elephants]

68. Thread winner, IMO.

[yardwork]

90. Thank you!

[Change Happens]

12. Praise the Lord!!!

Yes...

[Creideiki]

13. Yet another Obama Administration gaffe

If they're ready to certify, why would they go last week and announce they were fighting the 9th Circuit?

Someone please teach Obama how to stop trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[No Elephants]

62. Because, if the court order in a lawsuit brought by Republican gays had been the last word,

who would get credit for integrating the military? And how would that help Obama get re-elected?

I have a feeling they may not have been this ready to certify until the court spoke, whereupon they speeded things up. Just a feeling.

[Tx4obama]

70. But there is a little problem with that theory

Obama said during his remarks, June 29th:
" ... in a matter of weeks, not months, I expect to certify the change in policy –- and we will end "don't ask, don't tell" once and for all. "

(Source): LGBT Pride Month at The White House
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/06/29/lgbt-pride-month-white-house


AND then,

The 9th Circuit Court ruled to 'lift the stay' on July 6th (before they ordered it back with the revised language) on July 6th.
(Source): http://equalitymatters.org/blog/201107060011

Tomorrow is July 22nd, so it looks like Obama has kept the same schedule that he had 'before' the Court's recent movement.


Just my two cents.

[No Elephants]

73. Thanks. Always happy for input, but here's my problem with your theory.

Are you implying that Obama did not know BEFORE June 29, 2011 that the court decision was imminent and how it was likely to come out? If so, I disagree.

[Tx4obama]

74. That is correct. Obama did not know until July 6th that the 9th Circuit Court ...

was going to rule to lift the stay that was in place - no one knew other than the judges until the Court announced/released their decision.

p.s. In my previous comment I didn't post a 'theory', what I posted was a factual timeline of events that actually happened.

[No Elephants]

75. No way you can say accurately "That is correct." None.

And, yes, you did post a theory.

The theory that you posted was that my statement about Obama must have been wrong because all of a week before the opinion was made public, Obama had made a statement about ending DADT in a matter of weeks, not months. That is not fact, but your theory, or assumption or opinion.

The facts you posted were dates of events, but the underlying theory of your post and your reason for making it were was quite evident.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Number23]

18. HA!!

:rofl:

You know your post will be deleted but that doesn't mean it ain't the truth!

[MineralMan]

15. Great news. I'm sure President Obama will do his certification

very quickly, and this will finally be completed. It's long overdue, and President Obama pushed it through when it would have been easy for Congress to simply shrug it off.

[MNBrewer]

19. He didn't push, he WAS pushed.

"Then there's DADT. Yes, we are finally, hopefully, on the verge of ending DADT once and for all. And had we followed the administration's and HRC's plan, which was to repeal the legislation this year, in 2011, it would have never happened because of the GOP congress. Fortunately, GetEqual, Dan Choi, the Netroots and a number of others raised quite a public fuss and forced the President's, and the Congress', hand. We worried, publicly, early last year that pushing this off until 2011 was a fatal mistake. We were dismissed. So we acted up and things changed."

<http://gay.americablog.com/2011/07/lgbt-disappointment-with-obama-and.html>

He didn't push, he WAS pushed.

[MineralMan]

21. I remember the sequence of events quite clearly, thanks.

I followed the news very closely. I do not take my information from blogs, but look for actual news at the time. I saw that blog entry earlier today. Thanks for trying to educate me, but I remember what actually happened.

[MNBrewer]

92. I'm sure you were MUCH more involved in that process than John Aravosis was

[FreeState]

28. +1

Nothing like revisionist history so early.

[SpartanDem]

55. I guess he "forgot" about the 2010 SOTU

in which Obama called for it's repeal and it's was repeal by ending of that year.

[No Elephants]

67. LOL!

[SpartanDem]

87. What's so funny?

[jefferson_dem]

80. -1

If POTUS didn't want this (in a big way), it wouldn't have happened. Put aside your disdain for one short moment, and relish the victory for equality and progress.

[No Elephants]

63. Pushed? LOL. An Executive Order the day of his inauguration would have been pushing.

[laconicsax]

17. K&R Finally!

Took them fucking long enough!

[barbtries]

23. a step forward

on the long road to civilization. yeah.

[LetTimmySmoke]

27. K&R - This is a long time coming.

Maybe now we can get our Arabic linguists back.

[midnight]

32. The repeal of don't ask don't tell means it's ok to openly serve in the U.S military

as a gay person right?

[FreeState]

43. Yes n/t

[readmoreoften]

33. Congrats to all the LGBT activists who have worked on this for decades!

We finally did it! :party:

[rasputin1952]

36. Knowing the military, I said all along this would take some time, but it ...

would be accomplished.

Very few things in the military happen "instantaneously". Combat situations are about the only time when when things happen quickly. Find a way to flank the enemy or a weak spot in the line and any soldier will exploit the situation.

When it comes to other things in the military, such as changing regulations, it takes quite some time. There must be staff meetings, writing of regulations, training and a host of other things. Inevitably, some powerful people will fight against change, but, in most cases, they are dealt with behind the scenes, right to the point of being retired if need be.

Seven months is not long for a change...overdue perhaps, but those of who served realize that the military gets there, it just takes time.

One other thing, now that the military has changed on this, the civilian world will slowly come around as well. Time is the problem, but Equality will come for all.

[No Elephants]

69. Military follows orders, assuming anyone gives them. The order should have come

In January 2009, and the military given a very finite deadline to work out the details.


If the military "coming around" (after being forced so to do by Congress, the President and courts, in this case) is really what ends bias, Jim Crow would not have lasted so long after Truman ordered the military to integrate.

Having "colored" troops fighting in various wars did not end racial segregation, even within the military. Loving v. Virginia and Brown v. Board of Ed. were not decided because of the military. JFK and Bobby did work for integration because of the military, nor did LBJ get the Civil Rights Act passed because of the military.

In any event, polls show the civilian world has been way ahead of the military in accepting gays living openly. Hell, they can marry legally in a number of states and enter into civil unions in others and adopt children in still others.

Of course, some arses, military and civilian, hold on to personal bigotry forever, but that is very different from bigoted laws. On the other hand, eliminating bigoted laws is a very important step in helping change people's minds and hearts.

[rasputin1952]

79. What "should have" been and reality are two different items...

Point is, although it is late, the military followed it's directives from Congress and the president.

While it is taking effect as I type, people will find reasons to complain as opposed to seeing a victory for Equality. Ids there more to come...yes; will it take time, yes...but the reality is, it is forward motion and that is positive. It took women a long time to be accepted intot eh mainstream military as well, and they have proven their dedication time and again...it's the way the system works.

[zeemike]

45. Watch out....they are throwing a bone.

I guess that means they sold us out on SS and will be announcing it soon.

[No Elephants]

66. I thought it meant the Log Cabin Republicans had won their case and, unless

the administration acted ASAP on this for a change, the LCR might get credit for integrating the military. So, he took time from the budget crisis to hurry this up.

You may be right, though. Or maybe we're both right.


With such a great chess player {snort}, who knows?

[orbitalman]

46. K & R

[Historic NY]

47. People will find many reason to criticize the POTUS but ....

his methodical way was to make sure it wold not be overturned....if people can't see the light at the end of the tunnel then they don't understand politics. The right wing already has been clambering away at this issue...dotting the "I's" & crossing the "T's" make sure challenges are defeated. Now onto DOMA and the benefits issue...

[FreeState]

48. Im thankful for the for the work he has done on the repeal

however I'm not sure about :

his methodical way was to make sure it wold not be overturned.

The repeal does one thing only, it repeals the law. It does not place any law into effect that protects LGB service members. The next GOP president could come along and with a simple order re-instate a similar policy. The legal protections that were needed to prevent that were stripped out of the bill that was passed at the last moment.

Unless Im miss understanding which is a possibility too:)

[Cherchez la Femme]

86. Overturned?

By whom? The court which overturned DADT itself??

Whoa, y'all got to get some better rationalizations...

[Historic NY]

91. By the republican congress at some later date.

[Cherchez la Femme]

93. That would entail legislation

with the entirety and majority of Congress, for it to be passed.
Not gonna happen. It's no longer the DOMA & DADT 90's;
even back then there was no way they would have been able to amend the Constitution.

[TomCADem]

49. K & R! Great News!

[patrice]

50. Finally! Patriotism beats bigotry and hate!!

:patriot:

[nevergiveup]

52. I did not think I would see it in my lifetime.

Thanks to all those in the gay community and others who fought so hard for this and thanks to the president who got it done.

[pinboy3niner]

53. K&R

:patriot:

[No Elephants]

71. I get the sentiment of the cartoon, but it's really inaccurate.

DADT mattered one hell of a lot to gay troops, both those who were discharged and those who served in fear of being discharged, or worse.

Also to their loved ones and to gays and others outside the military, but that is another issue.

Did the gay troops who managed to avoid discharge serve bravely, get maimed and die, despite DADT? Did SOME hetero troops serve alongside them without hesitation and without making them feel less than or much less than? Did SOME military chaplains avoid homophobic sermons and ministry? Sure.

But portraying that no dead member of the military, hetero or gay, cared about DADT and it didn't matter to any of them really dismisses quite a lot.

[pinboy3niner]

76. The point is that those of us who served with them didn't give a shit

In combat, all that counts is that your buddy has your back. FUCK his sexual orientation--it doesn't fucking matter.

Long after the war, I was in a Vet Center group with a gay guy--Randy--who did three tours in Vietnam--most of it as a Marine Infantry squad leader. His men wouldn't have cared about his orientation--only that he was a good leader.

After the war, Randy went through a horrendous ordeal with discrimination. But when he was buried (he died of AIDS), a TON of Vietnam veterans turned out to honor him. He was one of our own--no matter what.

[Tx4obama]

54. Oval Office - Friday Afternoon - 2:45pm ET

SNIP

Pentagon spokesman Doug Wilson declined comment, but officials said Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, are prepared to certify to President Barack Obama as early as Friday that the armed services are ready for the change. The two are schedule to meet with the president in the Oval Office at 2:45 p.m. on Friday, the White House said.

SNIP

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/59615.html#ixzz1SnwLYPgb

p.s. I betcha President Obama will sign it while Panetta and Mullen are there in the Oval Office :)

[No Elephants]

72. Reagan's executive order was an abomination. So was DADT. So was the time

it has taken to get rid of DADT.

But, it is a very good thing that DADT is finally gone, regardless of what it took to get there. Congratulations to gay troops, members of the GLBT community and their loved ones and supporters.

Rejoice and reflect before going on to all the shameful and shaming state and federal Jim Crow laws that remain.

[Zorra]

77. Yay! Certify repeal today, ASAP!

:woohoo:!!!

[No Elephants]

78. Coincidence? On July 21, 2011, the Log Cabin Republicans filed

a brief with the Ninth Circuit saying DADT was still in full force and effect because no certifications required by statute had been made. The LCR cited a number of things, including the suspended (but not ended) discharge proceedings of a gay member of the military under DADT.

This was in response to the D of J's having asked the Ninth Circuit to render the LCR's case, first filed in 2004. moot (void, of no force or effect), largely because of the statute repealing DADT, adopted in December 2010, but not effective until certain certifications have been made.

Later July 21, the same day as the LCR filed its brief pointing out lack of certifications, we learn of a tweet saying certifications may come as soon as July 22.

Lining up the timetable of the case itself with the timetable of what Obama (And Congress and the Pentagon) did and said about DADT is very interesting.

Either a lot of purely coincidental events occurred, or the case filed by the Log Cabin Republicans has had quite an effect.

[Tx4obama]

88. You are leaving out quite of bit of the story

The LCR filed a brief back in April 2011 asking the 9th Circuit to lift the stay.
The 9th Circuit Court made a ruling on July 6th.
The LCR's July motions are due to the DOJ filing a motion to have the stay replaced after the Court ruled on July 6th to lift the stay.

You also omitted the fact that President Obama stated on June 30th that he would be signing the certification within weeks.

You are trying to point out what the LCRs did, but you seem to be ignoring the 'schedule' of the actual implementation process of the Repeal of DADT that the Pentagon and Obama were following.

[grahamhgreen]

94. Congrats! But the timing is suspect: it is the bone they are throwing to deflect us from the theft

of Social Security and Medicare, IMHO.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

95. sooooo he should have waited with the certifying until after the debt thing is over?

and once that is over the timing would likely be suspect based on the next worry about what Obama will be doing, and so on and so on

[grahamhgreen]

96. Actually, I'm sure he can use the next sell out to come out in support of gay marriage, finally.