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Hugo Chavez: China granting Venezuela $4B loan

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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 06:50 PM
Original message
Hugo Chavez: China granting Venezuela $4B loan
Source: Forbes

Chavez said Venezuela will soon receive a $4 billion loan from China to boost joint development projects between the increasingly close international allies.

The money will finance projects such as railways in this South American country, Chavez said during a Cabinet meeting that was broadcast live on state television. Venezuela will put $2 billion of its own into the projects, he said.

Chavez gave few details of the agreement. The live broadcast was suddenly cut when Chavez noted that Venezuela's national soccer team was playing a tight game against Ecuador in the regional Copa America tournament.

Read more: http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/07/09/general-lt-venezuela-chavez_8557176.html
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Cuba is not going to like this
but they have no money to help Chavez buy the election.
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. And China owns how much US debt? nt.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. 7% of our total debt.
More or less.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yeah, and where are all the people who said if Greece defaults NOBODY will loan them money anymore?
Argentina's decision to thumb their nose at the international financial community was some serious short term pain and now... this!

I really wish Greece had decided to jump ship and shaken the big banksters to their core.
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. What does that have to do with venezuela? nt
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Venezuela defaulted on its international debt.
Many predicted they would be international pariahs, forever.

And yet, voila! China appears as a trading partner.

Is it the international financial community's preferred partner? Hell no. But it is a powerful partner nonetheless.

Those countries that decide to "go rogue" and buck the international community, can and will find partners. Greece would have suffered some serious short term pain if they defaulted and re-constituted the drachma outside of the Euro. But I believe their assets would have drawn partners. Like Venezuela.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 09:34 PM
Original message
When did Venezuela default? What the heck?
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. China will demand a lot for their money
they will make the bankers look like pussy cats if Chavez can't pay them back.
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Unlike the US?
We are the country that invented Disaster Capitalism.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Is Chinese Disaster Capitalism any better?
China is looking for leverage - the Venezuelan people will pay a steep price for this "loan". One thing for certain is that China does not care about the Venezuelan people.
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. What do you have as proof other then the history of the US doing it?
I believe the word is "projection". Do you think when all those people were starving, living in misery or being murdered the US gave two turds about them?
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. China is a Imperial power
their entire history is one of conquest, subjugation and domination - ask their immediate neighbors what they have to say. Here's a news flash - history did not start in 1778.
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. So is the US, it has been since the ink was still wet on the founding documents.
Do you think the US started out with all this land?

What do you think we have been up to the several decades since the end of WWII.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. So Venezuala needs to be wary of China
they are just as dangerous as we are.
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. When China invades a country and bombs several others then your statement might mean something.
Until then, you are just having projection fantasies.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Are you that ignorant of Chinese history?
They have a long history of conquest and imperialism - just like America, they grew by conquest. Talk to their neighbors about their aggressive diplomacy and bullying. India and Vietnam have both fought wars with China in your life time.
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Thank you for the history lesson.
Both are before my time. LOL

As for the US aggressions, we can talk in present terms.
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Ever hear of a place called Tibet? nt
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. You mean 1959 Tibet?
That's a stretch. Weren't they an empire too?
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Sure
I'm not defending the US, just sayin that the Chinese aren't the greatest country in the world either.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. $2.2 billion from Russia June 10, $1.5 billion from Japan June 30.
They're looking like they're taking out a bunch of loans, if they don't pay them off then they're going to be screwed in more ways than one.
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
25. No, they won't want much ...
just the oil.

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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. and oil....
....will certainly lubricate the relationship 'between the increasingly close international allies.'

"The money will finance projects such as railways..."

....Hugo realizes China and Asia are the future and sucking yankee ass is no longer necessary....nothing succeeds like success....
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. Yup. There's going to some serious partnership re-arrangements on the international financial front.
Venezuela is a harbinger.

The US and the EU have always put themselves up as the sole arbiters of international finance. Turns out the Asian tiger isn't playing nice.

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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-11 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
16. So pretty soon China will own both the USA and Venezuela. n/t
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
24. The Chavez government has been an excellent negotiator when it comes to Venezuela's interests.
They were just amazing in their dealings with multinational oil corporations. Prior ("neo-liberal") governments had been basically giving away the oil, in a 10/90 split of the profits, favoring the multinationals. The Chavez government eventually achieved a 60/40 split, favoring Venezuela and its social programs (education, health care, land reform, etc.). The oil had been nationalized prior to Chavez but the rich oil elite in Venezuela used the nationalization only to enrich themselves--a small elite--utterly neglecting their country's development and the poor majority. Exxon Mobil walked out of the talks with the Chavez government, in a snit--because they, of course, were used to getting everything they want--but that just opened up the oil concessions to other companies, more eager to compete, and willing to bargain and to pay their social dues, and more respectful of Venezuela's sovereignty and its right to benefit from the oil.

The USGS has determined that Venezuela has the biggest oil reserves on earth--twice Saudi Arabia's. That puts them in a hell of a good bargaining position with China, which has money to loan against future oil needs. I don't know the details of this deal but I would certainly expect that the Venezuelan peoples' interests are well-served by it, based on this recent history. Venezuela had to dip into its considerable international cash reserves to ride out the Bushwhack Great Depression without cutting social programs. They budgeted for 2011 based on a very low $40/barrel oil price, but oil price hit $100/barrel, so they have that speculative strength. They've weathered the worst of it, and now need cash for long range development plans. Again based on recent history, the development will benefit Venezuela and the region. In particular it will help diversify Venezuela's economy and foster the new peace between Venezuela and Colombia (the railroad plans especially), and, in general, will help further the goals of Venezuela and its allies--notably including Brazil--which include social justice and regional economic/political integration.

The problem with U.S.-dominated World Bank/IMF loans--as with Exxon Mobil investment--is that it has been extremely exploitative--encouraging local rich elites to loot their own countries and give away resources, while privatizing pubic services (also "first world" looting of public services), combined with extremely ruinous land policies, anti-labor policies, deregulation and so on, leaving a vast very poor majority with no hope. These U.S. policies have resulted in the ruination of many Latin American economies--total collapse, in some cases, and vast and unnecessary hardship in others. And it has been accompanied by the corrupt, murderous, failed U.S. "war on drugs," which has been used to bolster fascist forces--indeed, to infiltrate the military and the police--and, in some cases, to foster outright murder, on a large scale, of trade unionists, human rights workers, teachers, community activists, journalists, peasant farmers and others--and to expand the Pentagon's footprint in what they call their "Southern Command."

One of the reasons that the U.S. government, and its corporate/war profiteer rulers, hate the Chavez government so much is that the Chavez government and the Venezuelan people have set the precedent for independence in Latin America. Our corporate rulers DON'T LIKE to compete. They are greedy monopolists who have now hijacked the U.S. military for their corporate oil war. Venezuela has greatly influenced the rest of the region toward a more "level playing field"--with south-south trade amongst themselves, and laterally across the "global south" from Africa to Asia. Latin America is well on its way to shedding its status as a slave to the U.S., and the Chavez government and the Venezuelan people were the pioneers in this "declaration of independence."

It is disgusting to watch the "western" press uniformly serve these corpo-fascist interests. Sometimes I think they are all just transcribing the same faxes from Langley. Hugo Chavez, the "dictator" and Hugo Chavez the "incompetent" are the two most repeated (and mindbogglingly incoherent) themes. There is no truth to either of them. The Chavez government is pursuing Venezuela's interests and the interests of the region, NOT U.S. corporate/war profiteer interests. THAT is their problem with Chavez--not that he is a "dictator" (he is not), and not that he is "incompetent" (ridiculous, given the Venezuelan peoples' repeated election of the Chavez government). These same forces just loved our little dictator, Bush Jr., and his frigging unbelievable incompetence. They are so far from being "democratic" and desiring real democracy, and from promoting competent government, it is laughable. No, they want, and have created, a bogeyman--unrelated to the real Chavez, and totally oblivious of the Chavez government and the Venezuelan people--not to mention the interests of the region--in order to DEFEAT democracy in Latin America.

This "Big Lie" about Chavez in the corporate media stretches across the spectrum, from the Wall Street Urinal to the BBCons, and including the paper that touts itself as the U.S. "paper of record," the New York Slimes. They are all foaming at the mouth against Chavez, in the interests of those who own all the media. Shit 'journalism' across the board. It is appalling.
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