Self-help author convicted in sweat lodge deaths

[RamboLiberal]

Source: MSNBC/AP

A jury has convicted a self-help author who led a sweat lodge ceremony in Arizona that left three people dead.

Jurors in Camp Verde, Ariz., reached their verdict Wednesday after a four-month trial.

James Arthur Ray was found guilty of three counts of negligent homicide.

More than 50 people participated in the October 2009 sweat lodge that was meant to be the highlight of Ray's five-day "Spiritual Warrior" seminar near Sedona.



Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43501833/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

[PoliticAverse]

1. Ray's attorneys ... said Ray took all the necessary precautions to ensure participants' safety.

It looks like 3 participants' safety was not 'ensure'd.

[plumbob]

2. Good. Now seize all his assets for the victims' families, and throw

him under the jailhouse.

Killing people who want to improve themselves is really despicable. Charging them for it - unforgivable.

[spooky3]

3. Glad justice was done. We knew a Republican couple, where the hubby

visited these lodges from time to time. They had plenty of inherited money and loved to dabble in stuff like this. We thought the lodges sounded like an insane and dangerous idea and had to bite our tongues not to be offensive. It's nice to see we were right.

[SpiralHawk]

16. When conducted properly by an elder trained in the ways of Turtle Island

The Purification Lodge is wonderful, powerful Medicine.

When conducted by an untrained arrogant a-hole who is charging money and manipulating people, it is inane, unethical and dangerous.

[bitchkitty]

18. Sweats can be a wonderful experience.

It can purify you and make you feel fabulous. But you don't pack yourself in like sardines, and you don't stay in there for extended periods.

[bemildred]

4. +1.

I hope he rots, and his lawyer with him. (I know that's not realistic.)

[Springer9]

5. I hope this sends a message to all the self help charlatans

preaching their woo woo, earth-mother-goddess rituals, lifestyle primitivism and New Age shamanism bullcrap. They do nothing but prey on weak minded fragile personalities for their own enrichment and spread nothing but misery in their wake.

[lbrtbell]

10. Nice religious bigotry there

Not to mention, nice bigotry against Native American culture. This guy was an idiot who didn't know what he was doing, as he was just in it for the money--period.

ONE charlatan does not represent all the earth religions. The vast majority of us manage to respect the earth and practice our religion without stupidly endangering lives. We're taught to be careful and have water or sand nearby when lighting just ONE candle. In addition to having respect for the land and for human life/safety, none of us--pagans, Wiccans, or people of other earth religions--has ever tried to force our beliefs on anyone else (it's against our religion). We've never been involved in terrorist acts (like Christians at abortion clinics, etc.).

We are not "weak-minded" people. There is no Vatican-like center of our religion, because we are encouraged to find our own individual path. We don't blindly take orders from any pope or prophet. We are all voracious readers, seeking out different viewpoints so that we can decide which of them is right for us. We are not miserable, as you imply; we find happiness in things other than blind materialism.

If you were to spout that kind of religious intolerance about any other faith, your post would have been deleted and other DU'ers would have flamed you to a crisp. It proves once again that earth religions and paganism are THE most maligned faiths in this country.

[saras]

11. +1000

[boppers]

14. Conmen is a religion, now?

"This guy was an idiot who didn't know what he was doing".... which includes the problem of his actions being totally disconnected from any actual religious practices.

[felix_numinous]

23. +10000 I rec post #10

[Codeine]

12. Thank you.

This place is so ridiculously New Agey some days it drives me batshit.

[chrisa]

22. Agree completely

Including:

- 'The Secret' / Law of Attraction
- 'Scientology'
- Faith Healing
- Get-rich-through-religion schemes
- Followers of con-men and frauds like Uri Geller, James Von Praagh, John Edward, and others

[closeupready]

24. see below

nt

[closeupready]

25. 'weak minded fragile personalties' - co-religionist, heal thyself.

nt

[Cal Carpenter]

6. Good. He better get prison time

That fucker.

He could face anywhere from probation to more than 30 years in prison on the three guilty counts as court proceedings continue next week.

more here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/Us/23sweat.html

eta: I meant to rec this thread and I accidentally unrec'd. Sorry.

[BiggJawn]

7. Glad to see another plastic medicine man get taken down.

I dabbled in that stuff on my way to Atheism. Lots of people passing themselves off as possessing "Native American SECRETS"... Sun Bear, Brooke Medicine Eagle, Lynn Andrews, all those crystal slingers and phony pipe-puffers...

[liberalhistorian]

9. Yes, and that is a major sore point with real native

americans and real medicine men and those who practice their rituals. I live in Indian country and there's a lot of anger about this guy and the "wannabes", as they're called. They don't even conduct the rituals the right way and refuse to listen when advised of it, they simply steal the age-old cultural rituals of the native americans and distort them for their own profit. A MAJOR sore spot with natives here.

This fucker was guilty of murder, plain and simple, and I hope he gets the book thrown at him six ways from Sunday.

[AnnieBW]

8. I hope they put him in a cell lined with plastic

and then turn up the heat. It will be what he deserves.

[Nolimit]

13. Here are some interesting videos on t

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCLmT_M-qtk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CPxoSp58pE&feature=related

There doesn't seem to be a part 3. It's crazy how people pay hundreds if not thousands of dollars for workshops, drum-beating retreats, and sweat lodges. These people don't even see how they are succumbing to the materialism and quick fixes they are trying to avoid by doing these activities that some dude probably made up after going to a pow wow or two. The sad thing is that often smart, educated people are often the ones who eat this phony-baloney Native American stuff up.

[boppers]

15. "often smart, educated people".... or at least, that's what they think they are.

I agree many of them have purchased paper trying to prove their intelligence, but that's a different matter from being educated.

[Rosa Menti]

17. You're right.

Not only that, but the fact of human "spiritual development" is that "one can only arrive at the top of the mountain by climbing the mountain". I mean, doing the hard work of learning who ONE IS INSIDE and what really matters in a life. Peace and Love and Self-Awareness aren't conjobs. Paying someone to lead you there, is.

[GliderGuider]

19. Climbing the mountain

Most people in Western culture don't have a clue how to embark on a spiritual quest. It's not part of our curtural narrative. So when someone realizes that they need to go on such a quest they're faced with the task of learning how. That's a tough job because there are so many approaches, traditions and techniques. Any particular path will be more or less suitable based on the person's personality and needs.

So how does one find out which are suitable and which are not? There are two ways to learn: from books and from teachers. Books can only take you so far, but some (like Alan Watts' writings on Zen or Adyashanti's non-dualism) can provide good entry points. Many others are less trustworthy. The same goers in spades for teachers, who can often manipulate your feelings to create a sense of loyalty that the material doesn't warrant.

Because we have so little training in this area, it can be very hard to tell the white hats from the black hats - in the beginning the words all sound the same, and everyone claims sincerity and authenticity. Rather than throwing out the baby with the bathwater though, it pays to be very realistic and a bit hard-nosed to distinguish actual babies from baby-shaped lumps of shit. IMO Zen, Taoism and Advaita are the "babies", while channeled writings, crystals and manifestation training tend to have less general value (to be polite about it). Shamanism is intersting, but most of the practices don't cross the cultural divide all that well.

I investigated most of the practices to some degree in the last five years during my move away from pure strong atheism, but the ones that stuck with me were the "culturally agnostic" ones like Zen and Advaita.

[GliderGuider]

20. And yes, Ray was a black hat... nt

[GliderGuider]

21. Paying someone to lead you there

There are legitimate teachers, and they also need to eat. The community of teachers is split on the issue of money, of course, but if I wanted to devote myself to teaching full-time, I would need a source of income. If I provide a service that is of value to my students, is there something disreputable in them paying me for it? I know a couple of spiritual teachers who are having a very hard time making ends meet because they feel that money is not appropriate in a spiritual transaction.

We pay other kinds of teachers and coaches, why not spiritual ones?