Two senators lobby to allow U.S. troops in Libya

[Bosonic]

Source: McClatchy

WASHINGTON — Two key U.S. senators said Tuesday they will push an effort to win congressional authorization for a one-year, limited United States mission in Libya.

To ignore efforts like those of the Libyan rebels would "be ignorant, irresponsible and shortsighted and dangerous for our country," said Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman John Kerry, D-Mass., who pushed for the measure along with Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.

They detailed their resolution on the Senate floor early Tuesday. It would authorize use of U.S. armed forces "to advance national security interests in Libya as part of the international coalition" involved in that country, explained McCain, President Barack Obama's opponent in the 2008 presidential election.

He said one year is "more than enough time to finish the job."



Read more: http://www.theolympian.com/2011/06/21/1694694/two-senators-back-authorization.html

[Harmony Blue]

1. They are made for each other

given that they are trying to be relevant again which is sad really.

[KoKo]

12. Quote from article what Senator Kerry said:

"In a 32-page report to Congress, the Obama administration said, "U.S. operations do not involve sustained fighting or active exchanges of fire with hostile forces, nor do they involve the presence of U.S. ground troops, U.S. casualties or a serious threat thereof, or any significant chance of escalation into a conflict characterized by those factors,."

Kerry largely agreed, saying U.S. troops are not actively involved in hostilities.

"The fact is that just because hostilities are taking place and we are supporting people engaged in those hostilities does not mean that we are ourselves, in fact, introducing troops into hostilities," Kerry said.

"No American is being shot at," Kerry explained. "No American troop is on the ground or contemplated being put on the ground. So the mere fact that others are engaged in hostilities and we are support them, I don't believe automatically triggers (the War Powers Resolution)."

:eyes:

Read more: http://www.theolympian.com/2011/06/21/1694694/two-senators-back-authorization.html#ixzz1PvuHSJAO

[NCarolinawoman]

22. So Kerry has never heard of the term "Mission Creep"?

:think:

[KoKo]

27. kick

[No Elephants]

42. Bombing folks is not engaging in hostilities? Nor an act of war? Through The Looking Glass.

[karynnj]

48. Kerry said it was war under the war powers act and voted for the Lugar amendment that said just

That. (Here is that June 28th afternoon hearing - http://foreign.senate.gov/hearings/hearing/?id=3c1b866a-5056-a032-526c-dd6dbe1dd4d7 ) Kerry said in that committee hearing that he thought that it was something that should be considered under the War Powers Act.

Earlier that morning, Kerry had a hearing specifically on the War Powers Act and Libya. Here's a link to see it - http://foreign.senate.gov/hearings/hearing/?id=3c07358f-5056-a032-5263-cbae117ccfb9 on the morning of June 28 th. It helps explain the different answers. Under the WPA as written, different top lawyers reached different conclusions.

Whether the WPA is invoked rested on a very technical definition . Obama, and Koh, the State Department lawyer, said that it wasn't invoked by narrowly interpreting the act. Kerry's explained their logic as follows. The War Powers Act has been debated since it was passed in 1973, but it has not been amended. He gave the Ford administration's definition of hostilities that all administrations have built on since then. It spoke of exchanging hostile fire, then explained, "Currently no American is being shot at and they will not put them there." However, Kerry then said the WPA was written before there were drones and that this might require amendments. Kerry said that he could see why there are reasonable differences of opinion on this. The top Defense Department and the Pentagon lawyers disagreed - and they were NOT at the hearing, though Kerry and Lugar asked for them. (Lugar in particular was furious that they were denied those witnesses.)

Kerry then shifted to "looking at the bigger picture". He said that passing a Senate resolution in support of limited war would send a message that the President and Congress are speaking with one voice to Ghadaffi and to the allies. "we are always strongest when we speak with one voice on foreign policy - so he hopes they can write a bipartisan resolution. He spoke of having a second meeting this afternoon to work on some Lugar amendments.

Not to mention, look at Kerry's actions, as well as his words. He has been trying to get a resolution since Obama announced his intention - to me this means that he has always thought that Obama should have asked for one - otherwise, why would he waste his time on this.

Kerry's own opinion is pretty clear, but it is obvious that he doesn't want to speak against Obama here - even as he leads the effort with McCain to get the Congressional support that Obama says he doesn't need.

[dmosh42]

2. What happened to the budget problems!!! n/t

[ForeignandDomestic]

7. War profiteers

It's good to see that the enticement of Libya's oil and future debt of it's citizens to the IMF bankers has brought the war-hawks from both sides of the aisle all together on this issue!

[wordpix]

34. ah, yes, bipartisanship at last

[plumbob]

3. How quickly they forget. How Do You Ask a Man to be the Last Man to Die for a Mistake?"

In our opinion and from our experience, there is nothing in South Vietnam Libya which could happen that realistically threatens the United States of America.

And to attempt to justify the loss of one American life in Vietnam, Cambodia or Laos Libya by linking such loss to the preservation of freedom, which those misfits supposedly abuse, is to us the height of criminal hypocrisy, and it is that kind of hypocrisy which we feel has torn this country apart.

We found that not only was it a civil war, an effort by a people who had for years been seeking their liberation from any colonial influence whatsoever, but also we found that the Vietnamese Libyans whom we had enthusiastically molded after our own image were hard put to take up the fight against the threat we were supposedly saving them from.

http://usliberals.about.com/od/extraordinaryspeeches/a/KerryVietnam.htm

See? just needs a little editing. This is called capturing the regulators, and money is what it takes.

Shame on Kerry and shame on McCain. They actually know better.

[Harmony Blue]

6. Yeah the irony is so thick

that the lessons of the Vietnam War are discarded so quickly, especially given their respective participation.

[jwirr]

8. Bingo. McCain doesn't know any better but Kerry does.

[Springer9]

11. Why would you say that?

They both served and were wounded in Viet Nam. Both have been in congress for decades. They see eye to eye on torture. Both have been failed candidates for President running on their military credentials. Both married wealthy widows for their second wives and both have multiple expensive homes.

Why would you say either one of them knows any better than the other?

[hamsterjill]

24. Oh, they both KNOW better.

They just don't give a damn if military men and women die. It's no sweat off their rich backs.

[Springer9]

25. Exactly! N/T

[politicasista]

31. delete n/t

waste of time

[jwirr]

38. Their histories. One has always defended war and the other once

had the guts to stand up and protest against it. That last one is the one who knows better.

[PurityOfEssence]

39. It's no problem asking the first guy to die for his country

What the hell? To the shores of Tripoli.

[karynnj]

50. Kerry explicitly said that he was against any troops on the ground

and they are not part of Obama's commitment. There is NO soldier being shot at - and at this point, none flying over Libya.

[Poll_Blind]

4. Aren't we going to default on our fucking debt or something?

I realize military adventurism is a favorite midnight snack for disconnected Washington elite but...

I mean come the fuck on, guys....

PB

[jakeXT]

30. Bomb the creditors

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgQECOb2FfE

[Poll_Blind]

36. I've speculated on this before. It is the most expedient way of getting rid of...

...the debt...unless the creditors bomb you back!

To the victor go the spoils!

PB

[bemildred]

5. Old friends think so much alike sometimes. nt

[iwishiwas]

9. drats!!

[alp227]

10. You mean the same John Kerry who exposed Iran-Contra, when the US supported Nicaraguan rebels?

"How John Kerry exposed the Contra-cocaine scandal" (Salon, 10/25/2004); "John Kerry, the man who uncovered Iran-Contra" (Salon, 7/22/2004)

So he turns around from chastising the Reagan administration's support for a rebel government to wanting to expand the Obama administration's support for a rebel government?

[KoKo]

14. It's quite a turn around. And we who voted for him thought he would disagree

with the Neo-Cons and Bush/Cheney/Rummy about "nation building and regime change" in the Middle East.

I guess we got snookered.

[Carolina]

29. ironic isn't it!

Kerry just needs to slink quietly into the footnotes of history. I'll never forget or forgive his vote for IWR in October 2002! And now, he continually disappoints; definitely not the same man who returned from Vietnam and challenged the PTB with the question (paraphrased): what do you say the last man to die for a lie!?

STFU Kerry!

[karynnj]

51. It wasn't the Republican support, but the COVERT, ILLEGAL

support funded by drug running in the US. Rather different than a limited, international effort to avoid a massacre.

Not to mention - NOTHING in any Kerry statement in the SFRC or the media suggests that he wants to EXPAND the Obama administration's support.

You might want to actually watch the markup of the bill in the SFRC. http://foreign.senate.gov/hearings/hearing/?id=3c1b866a-5056-a032-526c-dd6dbe1dd4d7 The resolution actually puts in limits - via the Lugar amendments - that Kerry voted for. They insure that no troops are to be assigned, even as peacekeepers.

[EFerrari]

13. Et tu, John Kerry.

[roomfullofmirrors]

15. "The united states is not going to deploy ground troops into Libya" Barack Obama

"I also want to be clear about what we will not be doing. The United States is not going to deploy ground troops into Libya"
Barack Obama


days have turned into months, a humanitarian mission has turned into a regime change mission, and now no ground troops is turning into boots on the ground. Kinetic military action is turning into yet another war.

[ProSense]

16. This article is bullshit

Kerry supported this resolution from the start and it's only to authorize the current limited U.S. role.

Kerry and McCain Introduce Libya Resolution

In an effort aimed at countering a House Republican plan to defund American military operations in Libya, Senators John Kerry, chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee and a Democrat, and John McCain, a Republican, announced the introduction of a joint resolution on Tuesday authorizing the limited use of United States Armed Forces in Libya.

Under the resolution, which could be voted on as early as this week, the president is ?authorized to continue the limited use of the United States Armed Forces in Libya, in support of United States national security policy interests? for one year after passage of the resolution.

The bipartisan legislation, however, ?does not support deploying, establishing or maintaining the presence of units and members of the United States Armed Forces on the ground in Libya unless the purpose of the presence is limited to the immediate personal defense of United States government officials.?

<...>

[politicasista]

32. +1. Maybe he shouldn't work with McCain anymore

It seems to bring out so much hate and negative vibes from people towards Kerry, that makes him look bad.

[TwilightGardener]

17. Um...no.

[janburns96]

18. WAR CRIMINALS!

Libya never declared war on the US! That's all we need is another fucking war when people are starving in our streets! Just another excuse to pay back the war profiteering corporations that gave money to their campaigns.

[Arctic Dave]

19. Mission creep anyone?

Really, Kerry?

Hey you idiot, here is a quote for you, "how do you ask a person to be the last one to die for your irony"?

How did that last limited engagement work out for you?

[NCarolinawoman]

23. Yep. Mission Creep was the 2nd thing that came to mind after reading this.

The first thing that came to mind was "what the heck are McCain and Lindsay Graham up to now?" Also figured that Lieberman must be egging them on in the background. But Kerry?

:wtf:

[JDPriestly]

20. And this will create how many JOBS IN THE US??????

What billionaires heaven to McCain and Kerry live in.

If they want to fight in Libya, let them pay for it out of their private fortunes.

We need jobs here, not more war.

Why don't we just use peaceful means to quarantine and punish Libya?

Oh, because we don't have a roadmap to energy independence, that is why.

Where is Congress on the important issues of our time?

[NCarolinawoman]

21. Kerry? I expected to see the names John McCain and Lindsey Graham.

:crazy:

[Johnny Harpo]

26. RIGHT...Draw Down Afghanistan and Send Them To Libya....

what are these two guys smoking?

Thank God neither was elected President.

Do I smell a defense industry lobby effort here?

[wordpix]

35. the same old military industrial Congressional complex

no special lobby, just more of the same is my bet

[fascisthunter]

28. stupid

[wordpix]

33. oh, goddess, another "cake walk" into the ME cauldron

Kerry, what's happened to you?

[chrisa]

37. John Kerry? Really? Really?

Really?

[Autumn]

40. Hey John. how do you ask a man to be the last man

to die for a mistake?
Edited to remove my calling him a fucking hypocrite and to add,

Thank you John. I lived in Grand Junction. I phone banked for you, I put up signs, I knocked on doors and I drove people to the polls to vote for you. Never again. You have opened my eyes to what has happened to the party like no one else ever could. Your party is no longer mine.

[Solly Mack]

41. Damn

[No Elephants]

43. Apart from Sanders and maybe Franken, the Senate has no left.

I'm surprised no one has posted that Kerry is the most liberal Senator yet.

[karynnj]

45. Did you know SANDERS co-sponsored Menendez's resolution supporting imposing the no fly zone?

Kerry is NOT the most liberal Senator, but he is in the top 10 - Sanders is the most liberal.

[harun]

47. Franken's the only Senator that isn't corrupted.

99-1 doesn't work so well in a Democracy.

[karynnj]

49. Nonsense - many Senators are not corrupted - and there are likely votes of

Franken you don't like as well.

[harun]

54. If they took corporate money they are corrupted.

[karynnj]

55. Be careful how you look at "corporate money"

If you look at open secrets, while you can find the PAC numbers, it is common that people look at the overall number. This is not from corporations - but from people working for corporations.

Look at the people who fought for a cleaner campaign finance laws - like Kerry, Wellstone and Biden.

Here is a link to the second half of a Kerry speech on the Republicans' nonsense on the debt ceiling. Starting about 2 minutes in he blasts lobbyists as strongly as nearly anyone has ever done anywhere. http://www.c-spanvideo.org/videoLibrary/clip.php?appid=600211524

(here is the link to the first half - http://www.c-spanvideo.org/videoLibrary/clip.php?appid=600211411 )

[ImNotTed]

44. McCain & KERRY?

Not McCain and Lieberman?

:wow:

[paparush]

46. Let's see - WH calls for possibly extending troop levels in Iraq - Check.

Prominent US Senators calling for troops in Libya - Check.

The war machine just rolls along.

This country is just done.

[karynnj]

52. The resolution specically FORBIDS US troops in Libya

Here is a link to the markup - http://foreign.senate.gov/hearings/hearing/?id=3c1b866a-5056-a032-526c-dd6dbe1dd4d7

[daleo]

53. Meanwhile, Social Security and Medicare get cut. n/t