Gadhafi Must be Captured, Put on Trial, Says Opposition Leader

[Turborama]

Source: VOA

Hadi Shalluf, president of the Justice and Democracy Party says Gadhafi is a criminal and the opposition will not negotiate with him
James Butty March 21, 2011

A Libyan opposition leader says coalition forces enforcing the U.N-authorized no-fly zone over Libya should capture leader Moammar Gadhafi so that he can be put on trial at the International Criminal Court (ICC) for crimes against humanity.

Hadi Shalluf, president of the Justice and Democracy Party of Libya, says the opposition is not ready to negotiate with Gadhafi because, in his words, the Libyan leader is a criminal.

“No, no negotiations with Gadhafi. Nobody can negotiate with him because he’s a criminal. He’s under investigation now by the ICC (International Criminal Court). We want them (coalition forces) to capture Gadhafi live with his sons, with his family and then take him to trial. We will give him the right to defend himself if we capture him. If he decides to fight until he dies, that’s something different,” he says.

Shalluf says it has been difficult for outsiders to make phone contact with members of the Interim Governing Council in rebel-controlled Benghazi because, he says, the Libyan leader has put a bounty on the heads of the rebel leadership.

Read more: http://www.voanews.com/english/news/africa/Butty-Libya-Opposition-Crisis-Update-Shalluf-21march11-118347044.html

---

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x705275">FYI: 219 Arab Organizations Called For Libya No-fly Zone & A U.N. Investigation Into Atrocities

[dipsydoodle]

1. That is considered to be an unlikely event

at least by the "coalition forces" who have no wish to be complicit in such an act given it could set the Middle East on fire.

[Scuba]

2. How does the capture and turnover of this dictator ...

...."set the Middle East on fire"?

Besides, the Middle East has been on fire forever.

[dipsydoodle]

5. US and UK have both made it clear

that is not on their agenda. News analysts, bear in mind I'm in the UK so we get real news , have pointed out the reasons for that - complicity would ignite the Middle East.

Most likely outcome at present is considered to be a line, north / south , to the west of Benghazi and the country partitioned.

Meanwhile : Oil prices jump $2 after US leads air strikes on Libya http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12802108 Now - personally I don't give a shit about the price of oil but it does seem to bother some others here. Wouldn't bother me none to just leave the Jeep on the drive and get a bus or taxi.

[tcaudilllg]

8. "I'm in the UK so we get real news" -- truer words have never been spoken

[Turborama]

13. "I'm not in the US so we get real news" would be truer still. n/t

[No Elephants]

23. Really? What news from the UK is not available in the US, via our own TV and the internet?

[dipsydoodle]

25. You cannot access our own news

You get world editions and you cannot , for example, stream the BBC home site in the US.

[mwooldri]

38. My Roku box would say otherwise.

For some crazy reason I cannot get any internet stream of BBC World... but I can get in all its widescreen standard definition glory the BBC News Channel. The UK domestic one.

I can also get Al Jazeera English, France 24, Russia Today and CNN International - as opposed to DumbedDownNN.

If you have a Roku check out http://www.thenowhereman.com/roku - and you can add his own private channel - Nowhere TV. Hunt a bit harder and you can find dedicated channels for a live stream of AJE or BBC News.

As for the BBC News website, if we need UK news, we can hit the UK tab... just cos we're in NA the website defaults to US & Canada tab.

[joshcryer]

11. It is too early yet to make such predictions about the "likely outcome."

They revolutionaries are already on their way to Ajdabiya. If they return to the push that they made initially (almost completely non-violent, mind you, they had a half dozen cities that Gaddafi violently took back) they can be in Trippoli in two-three weeks.

[Turborama]

12. Apart from the fact that's not true...

From the BBC... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4780532">Libya: Gaddafi may be targeted, UK ministers suggest

[oberliner]

15. The bus and the taxi don't run on gasoline?

Wouldn't a rise in oil prices impact their prices as well?

[dipsydoodle]

17. Effect is less so than you might think

our bus services , to a certain extent , use utility pricing.

Aside from that one of the benefits of age here is a free national bus pass and as you may have read elsewhere we've got a pretty national transportation structure anyway.

Within the Greater London postcode area some get free underground travel too throughout the network.

[No Elephants]

19. And the taxis you originally mentioned?

Besides, oil is not all about the price you pay for a ride. If your government is absorbing or subsidizing all or part of an increase, that is going to impact your country.

I walk almost everywhere and have electric heat, but what happens with oil concerns me nonetheless.

[dipsydoodle]

20. Of couse taxi fares are likely to rise

So fare down the station might be £10 instead of £9 - big deal.

[No Elephants]

21. Your view of the matter seems limited to your own wallet,

[dipsydoodle]

26. Unassociated in actual fact.

.

[oberliner]

24. High oil prices impact more than just the price at the pump

I guess that was the point I was trying to make.

[No Elephants]

18. "just leave the Jeep on the drive and get a bus or taxi." Oil-wise, how is a taxi different from

your car? What do buses run on?

And does your vehicle represent your only direct or indirect use of petroleum-based products?

Besides, the price of a barrel of oil does not neessarily have a direct and proportionate impact on the price of gasoline at the pump in the U.S. (or home heating fuel). Many games are played on all the many sides of that equation.

[dipsydoodle]

28. What do buses run on ?

LPG

You've also misinterpreted what I wrote or least the reason I wrote it. Not only I am at least able to get a bus or taxi I also do not whine incessantly about fuel going up 10 cents gallon. For comparison diesel here is now over $8 / US gallon. Maybe if it were that price in the US some might get unhooked from it.

[VermeerLives]

40. LOl! You're right

But Allah's Glorious Anointed, Colonel Gadaffi, Il Duce of Libya, MUST be killed (not captured) during this current military adventure. Gadaffi CANNOT be allowed to survive. Immediately upon the demise of the Libyan Savior Colonel, the United States should instantly cease all military operations associated with this Libyan Campaign and turn over ALL its military responsibilities and duties in Libya to The Arab League. It could keep 'em busy and out of mischief for a while.

[joshcryer]

3. I think what's more important if if the US wants to legitimize the ICC.

I don't think you can say that the US wouldn't mind seeing him go to court for criminal behavior. It'd be not so nice but I think between him and Muarabak or Ben Ali or even Salah Gaddafi is the least of the wests concerns as far as "dirty laundry."

[dipsydoodle]

9. By legitimise

I assume you mean recognise it and become subject to its rulings ?

[joshcryer]

10. Yep, we're on a path to do that.

Certain somebodies are afraid of it happening but it's going to be a long process.

I think we can get Bush tried in ICC if we bide our time and continue pushing it.

I have similar feelings for the UN. The UN bashing, the ICC bashing, doesn't really get us anywhere. Yeah there are problems (like the ICC withdrawing etc). Fix 'em.

[David__77]

29. Excellent point.

The US doesn't want to legitimize the ICC. It wants to use it as a tool in geostrategic power plays. ICC should definitely be abolished.

[chill_wind]

4. Gates:

"Gates warns against widening Libya mission
By Charley Keyes, CNN Senior National Security Producer
March 20, 2011 10:49 p.m. EDT

Aboard A U.S. Military Aircraft (CNN) -- U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Sunday the Libyan operation is off to "a strong and successful start" but he warned against widening the goals of the mission beyond what was spelled out in the United Nations Security Council resolution.

(snip)

Gates has been a vocal opponent of the U.S. enforcing a no-fly zone, cautioning that it was a complicated, risky military operation.

Gates warned against widening the coalition operations to include a direct attack on Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi.

Gates cautioned that anything that went beyond the U.N. Security Council resolution risked disrupting the "very diverse coalition" that agreed to the attacks on Libya.

"The one thing there is common agreement on is the terms set out in the Security Council resolution and if we start adding additional objectives then I think we create a problem in that respect," Gates said. "I also think that is unwise to set as specific goals things you may or may not be able to achieve."

more

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/03/20/libya.gates.warning/index.html

Pondering that rather indecipherable last sentence.. as I'm sure the US Press is probably gearing up to press much harder as well: What ARE the goals?

[tcaudilllg]

6. I think Shallif, if anyone, is who we'll be seeing on trial.

And won't end well. My recommendation? Exile. Now.

Or maybe he'll die in his bed a free man in Benghazi, with sniper fire echoing through the windows.

[dipsydoodle]

16. When the ICC announced steps against the regime

they did also mention the same apply to the opposition too.

[diveguy]

7. Thats an easy statement to make

with the US military backing you up. Anyone remember when we armed the taliban. And now look who we are fighting in two countries. Time to let other countries sort out their own problems. Our taxpayer billions are better spent helping our hurt and helpless.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

14. Well then Hadi Shalluf get busy, you have work to do.

[Atypical Liberal]

22. Just like Saddam...

He'll get a fair trial and a fair hanging.

[timtom]

27. And that's precisely what should have happened to the Shah of Iran

America made sure that didn't happen.

[Judi Lynn]

30. Rebels want Moammar Gadhafi ousted, not dead

Source: Associated Press

Rebels want Moammar Gadhafi ousted, not dead
By Associated Press
Monday, March 21, 2011 - Added 1 hour ago

PARIS — Libya’s rebels want to drive Moammar Gadhafi from power and see him tried — not have him killed, a European representative for the leading opposition group said in an interview Monday.

Ali Zeidan, an envoy for the Libyan National Transitional Council, also told The Associated Press that airstrikes led by France, Britain and the United States have helped the rebels, but that the opposition needs more weapons to win.

His comments suggested that rebels were considering a peaceful exit route for Gadhafi, whose autocratic 42-year reign in Libya has been marked by bloody battles between loyalist forces and rebels in recent weeks.

"You see, Gadhafi himself, we are able to target him, and we would like to have him alive to face the international or the Libyan court for his crime," Zeidan said. "We don’t like to kill anybody ... even Gadhafi himself."






Read more: http://www.bostonherald.com/news/international/africa/view/20110321rebels_want_moammar_gadhafi_ousted_not_dead/

[OHdem10]

31. The Rebels had better start ousting him. Ws are not going to

be there forever.

[The_Casual_Observer]

32. "opposition needs more weapons to win"

Would you buy a bridge from this guy?

[Avant Guardian]

33. Keep him in prison for eternity

Problem solved?

[FailureToCommunicate]

34. Spare him for a Lockerbie trial, and murder of his people, AND find

where he and his sons have stashed Libya's wealth. After that he can point the finger at all the Western countries that were so eager to sell HIM arms that last four years (Hint: Italy, France,UK, Germany...)

Then he's off to give gonzo fashion advice to his Hague cell mates Bush and Cheney.
(A guy can dream can't he?)

[WatsonT]

36. Good PR

likely a complete lie though.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

37. "Rebels, Gadhafi, Insurgent..."

"Oceania," "Eastasia," "Eurasia*."

:think:

* communist, bin laden, socialist, atheist, jew, queer, infidel, gypsy, black, indian, mexican, fear, fear, fear...

[Nihil]

41. As a LTTE said this morning:

"Why is it that people fighting against the government in Iraq and Afghanistan
are insurgents while people fighting against the government in Libya are rebels?"

My response would be that in the first two cases, the people are unpopular
not because they are fighting the (imposed, illegitimate) governments but
because they are fighting the empire ... the empire must always protect its
satraps - right up to the point where it recognises that it would be such
a losing battle that they throw them to the wolves (e.g Egypt).

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

42. Reagan redux.

Freedom fighter/Communist

[gratuitous]

35. That train's already left the station

Whatever happens to Gadhafi won't be decided by the people of Libya. American prestige probably can't sustain the hit it would take from failing to "get" Gadhafi, by which I mean kill him dead. This is America's all-in bet with the short stack. If we win, we're not out of the woods by any stretch. If we lose, well, it was a helluva run until we decided to turn the government over to the big boyz of business and finance.

[tabasco]

39. Sounds like a plan ...

followed by "The Mussolini."