US, UK & French (special) forces land in Libya (& setting up training bases)

[Turborama]

Source: Pakistan Observer

Akhtar Jamal | Saturday, February 26, 2011

The United States, Britain and France have sent several hundred “defense advisors” to train and support the anti-Gadhafi forces in oil-rich Eastern Libya where “rebels armed groups” have apparently taken over.

According to an exclusive report confirmed by a Libyan diplomat in the region “the three Western states have landed their special forces troops in Cyrinacia and are now setting up their bases and training centres” to reinforce the rebel forces who are resisting pro-Qaddafi forces in several adjoining areas.

A Libyan official who requested not to be identified said that the U.S. and British military gurus were sent on February 23 and 24 night through American and French warships and small naval boats off Libyan ports of Benghazi and Tobruk.

The Western forces are reportedly preparing to set-up training bases for local militias set-up by the rebel forces for an effective control of the oil-rich region and counter any push by pro- Qaddafi forces from Tripoli.

Read more: http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=78009

[Stuart G]

1. I ask...is this insane?? nt

[FreakinDJ]

2. not at all

I suppose the world should sit idly by while this Mad Dictator unleashes waves of mercenaries against his own people

[HereSince1628]

4. We'll just slash another couple tens of billions out of education and environment

No big deal for the US.

I agree that intervention is warranted, but it is time for some of the other profiteers to pay for the human tragedies that are a consequence of structuring global capitalism.

If we don't start making smart decisions soon, the US is going to wake up _someday_ and have a busted treasury.

[Turborama]

9. How do you come up with the cost of "tens of billions" for this? n/t

[HereSince1628]

32. Because in my life these missions often cost tens of billions

Probably because they start with some emergency response to save people and then turn into a costly stay in someone else's civil war.

Once we put boots on the ground we've got to support them, once someone wearing those boots gets killed, then we can't leave because that would be saying an American hero died for nothing.

Sorry just look at these recent ones...Gulf war I, all the Balkan civil wars, Iraq, Afganistan,

And even the little fiascos like Somalia ended up with big price tags, a couple months of fleet operations, operating an air wings, costs to support the expeditionary force, losses of a few lost blackhawk helicopters, wounded soldiers ... it adds up in a hurry.

I'm not saying a humanitarian mission isn't necessary. It's just not necessary for the US, we're already in over our heads protecting global capitalism.

[Turborama]

37. I don't think this news means America will be spending tens of billions of dollars on a war in Libya

[panzerfaust]

49. you think hundreds of billions then?

That seems like a lot to me. It is amazing how much violence can be inflicted for only a billion (or two). How much have we spent in Iraq (so far)

If the military COULD get the more for Libya, they WOULD.

And, yes, no matter how much it is, it will all come out of money which would have gone for science or social services because war is America's business.

[Turborama]

50. No. I think America will not be going to war in Libya and no billions will be spent.

Some perspective FWIW

According to this continuous clock, the decade long Afghanistan war has cost nearly $382-billion so far.

http://costofwar.com/en/

[HEyHEY]

47. Let's help give them a fighting chance against armed mercenaries trying to kill them, shall we?

[BOHICA12]

52. Agreed - and let's thank the French again for their .....

help in the late 18th Century. It'd be a bit different if they hadn't

[FreakinDJ]

11. The US has already seized his assets

we should use them to offset the cost

[joshcryer]

14. That money is the Libyan peoples' if we're doing this small thing we can pay for it.

[joshcryer]

13. If this is true it would be closer to simply landing trainers...

...it's still a little unsettling.

[SkyDaddy7]

8. I am in agreement with you...PLUS,

If they do successfully overthrow Gaddafi, and those chances are greatly increased now that the Special forces are there, then maybe just maybe the next government might not hate us as much...Maybe...Hopefully.

[BrightKnight]

53. It is a very good idea. - n/t

[maddezmom]

3. have to wonder if this Libyan diplo is alligned with the anti-Gaddafi protestors or pro-Gaddafi

forces.

[joshcryer]

15. Indeed.

[rug]

5. Time for a new war.

"In my opinion, any future defense secretary who advises the President to again send a big American land army into Asia or into the Middle East or Africa should have his head examined, as General MacArthur so delicately put it." Defense Secretary Gates, 2/25/2011

I guess it's ok if it's a small army.

[joshcryer]

26. I doubt we'll ever get a confirmation on this.

We'll be 80 years old and the FOIA will come down and we'll learn of it.

[EFerrari]

44. But Fidel was insane, senile, on drugs for suggesting this would happen.

lol

It always cracks me up when people underestimate him. But I guess that's why he's outlived all the idiots that tried to off him.

[TheLastMohican]

51. Fidel is right

because he knows too well who he is dealing with/

The policeman of the global capitalism has to protect his "assets" or people around the world will start calling him "pussy".

[sufrommich]

6. Is there another source for this? nt

[joshcryer]

16. +1

Easy way to get tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of hits...

[Igel]

43. Nope.

We have a report that precipitates out of the Aether, confirmed by an unidentified person who is claimed to be a Libyan diplomat, in a less than stellar source. Can't even spell "Cyrenaica" properly; most people have a clue where the area is and it's not in spell-checkers (I'd wager).

So it's obviously iron-clad because it's exactly what we'd want, if we think Obama's the ultimat good guy; or most loathe if we think the US can only do bad.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pampango]

10. I don't see a lot of anti-American sentiment in the protests in Egypt, Tunisia, or Libya, do you?

From our point of view, perhaps there should be. Anti-American and anti-Israel demonstration have certainly happened in the past, though they may have been fostered partially by local elites wanting to focus popular wrath on the "boogey man" (the ubiquitous "other") over there rather than at the local elites themselves who control all the power and money in the country. (Kind of like our elites do here - trying to get us to focus on the various "others" that we have rather than focussing on our elites themselves as the cause of our problems.)

The people ("middle eastern people who hate us anyway" - stereotype much?) trying to overthrow their dictators are doing it for what they see as "freedom" and "democracy" not to get back at the "evil Americans". Whether they get "freedom" and "democracy" remains to be seen, but it is hard to fault their desire for them.

[timo]

20. I dont fault

the people of the middle east for wanting freedom and democracy, I dont think its our job to finance it!!! often times the dictators and unpopular regimes were placed there by our government, we so often stick our noses into places it does not belong and it ends up costing our country billions of dollars and countless lives.

[EFerrari]

45. We don't finance demoncracy anywhere.

We finance the conditions necessary for American corporations to make huge profits. At least let's be clear on what we're paying for.

[14thColony]

17. They don't hate us nearly as much as you've been led to believe

and when they do hate us it's often because we're hypocritical. Something like this, actually putting into action our usually empty rhetoric, might be a good step towards building inroads with the people in the wider region, instead of our usual desire for the status quo by supporting the dictator-du-jour

Assuming we don't find some way to fuck it up.

[joshcryer]

18. I wouldn't expect our shit foreign policy to change over this one instance.

It'd be nice, but it's highly unlikely.

I mean we're talking about Obama getting on his knees and saying "We've done it wrong for, oh, at least a century. A bit longer, if you count the whole original colonialism thing. Sorry."

[14thColony]

39. Oh I totally agree with you there.

It would be nice, but not bloody likely to happen.

[joshcryer]

12. Wow.

[pampango]

19. Libya: Special forces could help evacuate stranded oil workers

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8344720/Libya-Special-forces-could-help-evacuate-stranded-oil-workers.html

Special forces and other arms of the British military could be called in to speed up the delayed rescue of hundreds of Britons stranded by the fighting in Libya, a minister has indicated. William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, said the Cobra crisis committee will meet today to decide whether the Armed Forces should take a greater involvment in evacuating almost 200 U.K. oil workers and their colleagues working in remote desert camps. Mr Hague said he did not rule out the use of British special forces to rescue the 170 British workers marooned in desert camps away from Libya's major cities.

However, Jeremy Hunt, the Culture Secretary, went further in appearing to confirm that the SAS was on stand-by. Challenged about the lateness of the Government's response to the situation in Libya, Mr Hunt added: "The point I would make is, things like having SAS troops on stand-by aren't things that happen at the drop of the hat and these things have obviously been planned for days, if not weeks, and I think things are going to happen."

Asked whether he could foresee a time when British troops were deployed in Libya, he added: "Absolutely." "But I don't want to speculate on that because the normal Foreign Office line rightly - because they don't want to compromise the operations - is that they don't rule anything in or rule anything out, but we wouldn't have SAS troops on stand-by if we weren't envisaging the possibility of having to use them."

Earlier, David Cameron warned Muammar Gaddafi to stop his regime's violence against Libyan civilians or face "consequences."Interviewed by Nick Ferrari on LBC radio, Mr Hunt said: "The most significant news is the SAS troops that are now ready to spring into action.

This story doesn't indicate that special forces have been sent to Libya, but it was under serious consideration.

[joshcryer]

21. Interesting. I bet this is it.

[groundloop]

22. I have mixed feelings about this.

Of course we'd like to see the people of Libya rid themselves of a brutal dictator. HOWEVER, since I remember the Vietnam era all too well the fact that we're sending "advisors" to another country's war just sends a chill up my back.

[joshcryer]

24. I just want the Libyans to get the credit and I don't want their uprising to be seen as "unclean."

[Ghost Dog]

31. That is absolutely right. Cleanliness is next to godliness.

And we are all sinners.

[pampango]

34. I think that is extremely important and was achievable in Egypt and Tunisia

without "too much" bloodshed.

If someone like Qadaffi is willing to use live fire from soldiers and militia using tanks, helicopters and airplanes to attack civilians - unlike in Egypt and Tunisia for the most part - we could be faced, at some point if not today, with a choice between a failed revolution (a victory for the use of military force against civilians protesters) or an "unclean" (at least slightly) successful revolution. (How "unclean" would be subjective and somewhat dependent on the level of outside involvement - simple air cover to take the use of airplanes, helicopters and tanks away from him or something more substantial like troops on the ground. Of course, his use of foreign mercenaries takes away some of the stigma of foreign involvement on the side of civilians.)

I don't know that we are there today, since I think there's a decent chance that Libyan civilians can still win a "clean" victory over Muammar. Things do not seem to be going his way. But he still has plenty of money to get more foreign mercenaries if he wants to, so I wouldn't count him out. At some point in the future, if he is successful in hanging on,it may become a tough call to determine when a "clean" people's victory cannot be expected to overcome massive military force (if it continues to exist.

I imagine there are other kings and dictators in the Middle East and elsewhere that would be happy to see that "stern warnings" and "nasty letters" were the only consequences of using tanks and planes on civilians. On the positive side, it might aggravate Mubarak and Ben Ali that their failure to convince their militaries to open fire on their civilians using every weapon in their arsenals (perhaps because they thought that the West wouldn't tolerate such an extreme crackdown) was a more grave failure than they realized at the time. And there may be elements in the Egyptian and Tunisian militaries that look now at Libya and wonder if the West's warnings to them about the consequences of using extreme force on civilians was just so much hot air.

[jakeXT]

23. If helping stranded oil workers is the cover story

The Daily Telegraph also reported Thursday that special forces “were on the ground in Tripoli to ensure the evacuation of all British nationals went smoothly. SAS officers offered support and advice to private security firms drafted in to rescue more than 170 oil workers stranded in remote desert compounds.”

The Express said no details were given of the operation but it is believed these include sending in a contingent of SAS troops already on standby for “emergency deployment” to Libya. The unit would be backed by paratroopers from the Special Forces Support Group.

http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/libya/uk-special-forces-in-malta-for-libya-evacuations


I bet Stavridis talked to his UK partners on this issue

http://twitter.com/STAVRIDISJ

[Turborama]

36. The Guardian earlier: "SAS on standby to rescue trapped Britons"

Article here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4749216#4749640

Interesting that the Telegraph had reported them as actually 'on the ground'. In Tripoli, no less.

Oh, and Sky News on Thursday...

Libya: SBS On Stand-by For Rescue Mission

11:47am UK, Thursday February 24, 2011

Sam Kiley, security editor, in Ras Djedia, Tunisia

British Special Forces troops have been put on standby to conduct deep penetration rescue missions to take British subjects out of isolated Libyan oil exploration camps following widespread criticism of the Government's response to the unfolding crisis.

Security sources have told Sky that the Special Boat Service (SBS) had already forward mounted liaison officers to a Mediterranean location, which Sky will not reveal, as part of the preparations to rescue an estimated 170 people unable to reach Tripoli where RAF Hercules aircraft have been evacuating civilians.

More: http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Libya-Special-Boat-Service-On-Stand-By-To-Rescue-Trapped-British-Subjects/Article/201102415939830?lpos=World_News_Second_UK_News_Article_Teaser_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_15939830_Libya:_Special_Boat_Service_On_Stand-By_To_Rescue_Trapped_British_Subjects

[jakeXT]

41. I also wonder why they have to bribe officials

UK paying ‘bribes’ to free trapped Britons

By Alex Barker in London

Published: February 25 2011 14:48 | Last updated: February 25 2011 14:48

Britain has been buying off Libyan officials with hefty additional fees in order to expedite the troubled evacuation of UK nationals, according to senior government figures.

The revelations over the demands for what one senior figure described as “bribes” underlines the problems faced by the government as it oversees a rescue effort that has been criticised as inadequate, poorly co-ordinated and slow.

Speaking in Downing Street after a specially convened meeting of the National Security Council and Cobra emergency planning committee, David Cameron stressed the government was doing “everything we can” to help the 200 British citizens still stranded.

..

The Foreign Office categorically denied the depiction of the payments as “bribes”. But it confirmed that fees were paid to facilitate the evacuation. The revelation is an embarrassment for the government, not least because the longstanding official policy is never to pay bribes.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/df613ba2-40e1-11e0-9a37-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=rss




I hope it's not something that was done in Iraq




Smart Bribes
Centcom's real secret weapon.
http://www.slate.com/id/2083271/

[ellenrr]

25. bad news... n/t

[bbgrunt]

27. can't let that oil fall into unfriendly hands.....

[ProgressiveProfessor]

28. Very doubtful this is true

[joshcryer]

29. Very doubtful we'll ever see any other article about this.

[bemildred]

33. Sounds like bullshit.

Although I am starting to wonder if some people are trying to gin up an intervention. But I think they are not going to have enough time to do that.

[jakeXT]

30. USAF paratroopers training in UK?

Mr Obama has refused to rule out military intervention in Libya and Mr David Cameron has warned Gadaffi: 'The world is watching you - and the world will hold you to account.'

And his words seemed to be strengthened by the sight of a USAF Combat Talon on the runway at Mildenhall airport in Suffolk, England, with parachuters dropping from the sky.

The plane is of the sort usually used by U.S. special forces.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1360595/Gaddafi-threatens-burn-Libya-protesters-cease.html#ixzz1F4ugnBq8

[FLPanhandle]

35. This doesn't make sense on many levels

Extremely doubtful.

[Turborama]

38. It woudn't be the first time the SAS had been in Libya on a training mission...

SAS trains Libyan troops: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/onthefrontline/6176808/SAS-trains-Libyan-troops.html


I posted about it in GD recently, here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=496553#497558

[crim son]

40. "Oil rich."

Unbelievable that some people here believe we're going in for humanitarian reasons. Simply unbelievable.

[western mass]

42. I'll believe it when it comes from a real source

[classysassy]

46. The scent of oil

and the vultures will come calling.

[HEyHEY]

48. Good, give them at least a fighting chance! Instead of standing there like pricks while they die