Feds Target Illegal Hires

[OhioChick]

Source: WSJ

Expanded Government Audits Force About 1,000 Firms to Verify Workers' Status

FEBRUARY 17, 2011

The federal government is requiring as many as 1,000 companies to turn over their employment records for inspection, part of an expanding crackdown on businesses suspected of hiring illegal immigrants, according to people close to the Department of Homeland Security.

The audits, which the government is expected to make public in the next few days, represent the biggest such operation since 2009. At that time, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, a DHS unit, conducted an auditing sweep of businesses working in public safety and national security.

ICE last month established an employment compliance inspection center to beef up coordination across states instead of having agents follow only local leads. The latest round of audits targets at least a few regional fast-food chains, according to people with knowledge of the operation.

Federal agents are expected to visit the companies in coming days to notify them of the requirement. The required documents include I-9 forms, used to verify an employee's identity and eligibility for employment in the U.S.


Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703961104576148590023309196.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond

---

Snip~ "Thousands of workers have been caught in the net by the Obama administration. Among other companies hit by the program are Abercrombie & Fitch Co., hip-clothing maker American Apparel Inc. and Gebbers Farms, a big apple grower in Washington state."

[Vattel]

1. fuck the feds

[sledgehammer]

4. What?

Hiring of illegal workers is a huge problem, these audits need to happen. There better be some fines and punishment for the employers that go along with it.

[Vattel]

10. Generally I like to see jobs go to those that most need them,

but I do agree that trying to enforce immigration laws by fining employers who knowingly hire immigrants who are legally prohibited from earning a living in the United States isn't as bad as doing it by deportation. Obama is doing a lot of both and hurting a lot of needy immigrants in the process. I would need to see proof that enforcing these laws as much as Obama is enforcing them is worth the effort. It's clearly hurting a lot of people. Helping much? I doubt it.

[sledgehammer]

12. Deportation will always be part of the process

Immigrants who are caught are often deported.

It's really the employers who are the real culprits - not offering them jobs will stem the flow of illegal immigrants more than any other measure. But they do it to save money, to save taxes (they don't pay their part of the employee's SS income), and exploit the worker.

The workers are also breaking the law and have not contributed their share to the over-burdened local and federal govts. I know they are coming here for a better life, and I love that concept about America. But there are legal ways to do so. Even if it's hard, tens of millions of people have done it that way.

[Vattel]

14. immigrants do pay taxes; they contribute more than enough;

and they often do not have any realistic chance of legally immigrating.

[sledgehammer]

15. Legal immigrants pay full taxes

However, those who are here undocumented often don't pay taxes. Many are paid in cash because they can't be legally employed. As a result, they don't pay local/state/fed taxes that are normally withheld from paychecks. On top of that, employers don't pay their contribution to SS for the employee because the payment is off the record. However, workers do pay taxes like sales tax and property tax.

[Vattel]

16. Why should they pay SS tax if they don't collect SS?

Many do pay SS tax and never collect! The one's that earn enough to pay substantial income tax typically do pay income tax.

[sledgehammer]

17. Actually, no.

Many of them eventually work their way to permanent residency/citizenship. But for the years in between they never paid taxes. That's why any path to citizenship should include payment of back taxes. And employers not only skimp on their SS responsibility, but also hide revenues since a lot of it never hits the books.

Nearly all legal immigrants pay full taxes (incl SS) even if they never end up staying in the US permanently. Should they get a refund when they leave? Should the families of those who die before collecting SS/Medicare be entitled to a refund of all such taxes paid?

Contributing taxes is everyone's responsibility, not just those who are eventually going to benefit from it. I never attended school in the US and I don't have kids, but I've been paying for schools through my local/property taxes. And that's totally fine.

[AlphaCentauri]

21. No taxation with out representation, where is the Tea Party spirit? n/t

[sledgehammer]

22. Legal immigrants can't vote for years and years

Until they are citizens. The entire process anywhere from 5-15+ years. Yet they pay taxes throughout that time. They don't complain. And some never even make it to the citizenship stage.

It's the law of the land. As I've said before, this applies more for the employers than the workers. Fine the hell out of the employers for knowingly breaking the law when they had so many alternatives available to them. I don't blame the workers for coming here for a better life - that is the promise of America. But, there's a legal way to do it and an illegal way. I support the former.

And, it's interesting that anti-immigrant repugs turn a blind eye to employers who hire the workers. I remember an interview with a hardcore repug in Florida who was anti-immigration but admitted his business was successful because he hired undocumented workers so he could pay them less (and, what he clearly didn't mention, skimp on taxes).

[AlphaCentauri]

45. Legal immigrants pay taxes and they are entitle to the same benefits as US citizens

A US citizen can bring his 80 year old parents legally and instantly they will have the same benefits of any US citizen, when they never paid US taxes in their lives, while illegal immigrants pay taxes and they are not entitle to any benefit or service.

The current system doesn't make it easy for immigrants to do it legally.

[Vattel]

26. Most pay plenty of taxes

It is unfair that they pay soc sec tax and never benefit from it. You seem to think getting paid under the table is the norm. It's not

[sledgehammer]

28. All workers should pay all their taxes due by law

"Most pay plenty" is not enough.

It affects everyone else. On top of that, tax evasion is breaking the law (for both employers and workers).

[sledgehammer]

29. In response to your ETA...

What about the many people who worked here legally for years and then returned to their home countries. Should they get a refund on their flight out? And what about the many illegal immigrants who have become legal but didn't pay their taxes. Should it be demanded from them upon receiving legal status?

It's the law to pay into SS and Medicare for almost everyone, whether you will eventually be eligible for it or not. Hell, none of us know what will happen to SS and Medicare by the time we retire!

We need to reward those who came to this country through legal means and played by the rules. And, if we need to encourage more people to come, then open more legal channels. Encouraging illegal immigration leads to human exploitation, depressed wages, less govt revenue, and increased unemployment.

[Vattel]

31. "Played by the rules"? Get real.

Many immigrants who work illegally don't have the opportunity to legally immigrate. I'm glad they manage to make it here and work illegally so they can take care of themselves and their families. Does their coming hurt the economy? According to some studies, no; and according to other studies, yes. So who knows? On balance they pay more than their fair share of taxes. The law doesn't require them to pay SS taxes because the law prohibits them from being employed in the first place, but many of them pay SS taxes anyway and never get SS benefits.

[sledgehammer]

32. "I'm glad they manage to make it here and work illegally..."

I disagree. If there's a need for more workers, then there need to be more channels for legal immigration across all skill sets and economic backgrounds to give such workers an "opportunity" to legally migrate. Make sure they are not exploited, make sure there's not a competitive advantage for any company, make sure the govt is collecting its full revenues. But if such channels don't exist, then working here and not paying your full taxes is breaking the law.

Recently, some of my friends hired a moving company owned by Asians because they gave a quote that was half in cost/time as a quote from a semi-established company. They called the first company back to see if they would match and the guy was just very honest and said "look, they are probably using undocumented workers and have a major competitive advantage, we just can't compete with those prices." The movers didn't speak a word of English, never put anything in paper (no contract, no email, nothing), and took cash only (refused even a check, forget credit cards). They did an insanely good job though and my friends have referred them to everyone they know. The other company that plays by the rules is losing business everyday. It's the same with gardening, same with contractors, same with restaurants, etc. In one way it helps the end consumer big time, and all of us take advantage of it. But the system that allows such a competitive advantage for those who don't play by the rules is something that needs to be changed.

For those workers who have made it here, there should be a path to citizenship. It's unconscionable that the hard work they have put in for our advantage (often in very, very difficult environments) goes unrewarded, and so many of them have American-born children that it would be terrible and unfair to break the families up. But, going forward, more legal immigration channels should be opened and the fines/punishment for employers and workers involved in breaking the law should be much, much greater. It will lead to much less human exploitation and a much more equitable economic system.

It seems like we have pretty divergent views on this. Immigration is clearly not a black-and-white issue - it's a complex issue which involves, most importantly, human lives. It's always interesting to hear different sides of a debate.

[Vattel]

46. maybe we don't disagree that much.

I agree with you that creating legal opportunities for truly needy non-citizens to work in the US is better than providing them only with illegal opportunities. I'm all for guest worker programs and the like. I also suspect that you would concede that the net impact of illegal immigration on unemployment in the US is hotly debated among people who can claim some expertise on that issue. I would add one point that you may or may not agree with: many immigrants who work illegally in the US actually do need the jobs they get more than the Americans who might otherwise fill them. The social safety net is less effective in, e.g., Mexico than it is in the US. That's why I generally prefer to see the immigrant get the job illegally than to see the American get it legally. I've talked with many immigrants. In many cases they come from areas where there truly was no way to make ends meet for their families except by immigrating illegally. This often causes their families to be divided, and they hate that. But better to feed a family from a distance than to see it fall into abject poverty.

[sledgehammer]

47. Yeah, I don't think we'll see eye to eye on that

There are literally billions of people in this world who would have an infinitely better life if they came to the US, working whatever job they might be able to get here. It would be nice to live up to Emma Lazarus' words and welcome everyone here sans judgement.

And we did, for a while. Immigration is one of the greatest traditions of this country, and it should continue forever. But it has to be done under legal means in order to stem the flow to a realistic and sustainable level, and to reduce human exploitation.

Also, why should it be the "truly needy non-citizens" - why not for the needs we have as a country? If we need more unskilled labor, let's encourage such immigration legally. It's a noble act to help needy people around the world, and the US does a lot of that (more than any country) through various aid programs. But with a crumbling infrastructure at home, it's better to have a legal, structured approach to immigration that will help people around the world and help the US at the same time.

[Vattel]

49. I agree that we can't let every needy person in.

Thanks for the serious and respectful discussion.

[roody]

35. They are contributing a lot to local and federal govts.

Taxes are taken out of their meager checks. They pay the same sales taxes, etc.

[Honeycombe8]

39. No, I don't think so. It's targeting the employers, and fining them. They don't then...

hunt down the workers.

They're trying to dry up the employment source. Which is smart.

[Honeycombe8]

40. This sounds like a good way to protect American workers' jobs from

illegal immigrants who undercut in wages Americans. Americans can't compete with the wages that an illegal immigrant will accept. Same thing as outsourcing, only it's here on our soil.

Every job an illegal immigrant holds is a job taken from an American worker who is unemployed. Or, the American is then forced to work for "illegal" type wages, in order to compete for that job.

[OhioChick]

34. 100% in agreement...... n/t

[sledgehammer]

41. A rare event...

...that we agree on something!

[OhioChick]

44. Imagine my surprise.....

:toast:

[former9thward]

2. As long as our unemployment is high they need to step this up.

[Populist_Prole]

5. I agree

It's a corrosive effect on our own jobs situation.

[sledgehammer]

7. Even when unemployment isn't high...

...they need to keep this up. The employers and employees are both breaking the law and neither are contributing their fair share in taxes.

[obxhead]

3. Not a single employer will be harmed by this action

other than having to go look for a new low paid illegal worker that is.

[devils chaplain]

6. Are there no fines?

Serious question, not snark.

[sledgehammer]

8. There are, but not always enforced.

"The whole process can take months or even years from the notice of inspection to the closing of the case, which may or may not result in a fine. The amount of such fines has dramatically increased according to data provided by ICE. Fines totaled just over $1 million in fiscal year 2009 and rose to nearly $7 million in 2010." <http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/07/us-usa-immigration-fastfood-qanda-idUSTRE71666120110207>

Fines need to be more strongly enforced and raised. Whether it's for undocumented workers or for abuse of legal immigration programs.

[devils chaplain]

9. Thanks...

And I agree 100%. It's frustrating how the push is always towards "sealing the border" and SB1070-type crap and not towards the source of and the magnet of the problem, which is greedy employers trying to circumvent our labor laws to get unskilled labor at the price they want. You wouldn't need huge fences and police-state tactics if you just started dropping the hammer on the employers. Fine the **** out of them.

Edited to add: imagine if they took the money spent on border fences, detainments, deportation and the like and actually put it towards employer enforcement. It would not only do 10X more to fix the problem but also pay for itself.

[obxhead]

11. When they are enforced they are so low

that it makes it more profitable to hire illegal immigrants and pay the fines on the rare occasion you are caught.

[WatsonT]

25. Hence the need for progressive fines

along with strict enforcement. The first time may be a simple carelessness. The 2nd time, possibly but less likely. Any after that is a persistent refusal to follow the law. After that the fines should be such that any competitive advantage they've had from illegal labor is completely wiped out and they are now worse off than they would have been if they'd hired legal workers.

Entirely remove the economic advantage (indeed, make it a severe disadvantage) and do it consistently and hiring illegals will cease.

[sofa king]

37. Or revocation of charters.

Corporations may be people, but they can be killed deader than hell with just the stroke of a pen.

[obxhead]

38. Fuck that.

Loss of business license, loss of freedom for an extended length of time (state prison not county), extreme fines, and an extended length of community service upon release.

Every job I have ever had I have had to provide 2 forms of ID. 1 photo state or federal ID and an SS or Green card. Every one of those employers has made a photocopy of them. If the violator can show a photocopy of quality forged documents leniency should be considered, otherwise they knew they were bucking the system and should suffer extreme consequences.

To fix a problem you must go to the source, not the symptom. Harsh consequences against the true violators will be the only thing that brings change.

[pampango]

13. Good catch. Deportations and employer fines and criminal convictions are setting records

particularly compared to anything Bush ever did.

The position of the SEIU and AFL-CIO are interesting. From the article:

"The Service Employees International Union, about 25% of whose members are immigrants, opposes the raids. "Silent raids are not helping keep good people employed, and they are not helping the economy," said Ben Monterroso, a senior staffer with the SEIU, the country's largest union, with 2.2 million members in health care, janitorial services and government. The union, which grew its ranks in California and other states by attracting immigrants, regardless of their status, favors an amnesty program for illegal workers, Mr. Monterroso said. The SEIU is advising Chipotle's laid-off workers in Minnesota to help them assert their rights and ensure they are properly compensated.

The AFL-CIO said its position hadn't changed since April 2009, when it, the SEIU and other big unions forged a common position supporting legalization of immigrants, coupled with a more efficient worker system to make sure new workers were legal. The AFL-CIO doesn't support E-Verify without legalization, a spokeswoman said. It is opposed to the I-9 audits and maintains that enforcement doesn't work without a comprehensive solution to the problem.

"We are in favor of comprehensive immigration reform, and we see that legalization is actually the strongest possible worker protection," said a spokeswoman for the AFL-CIO, an umbrella organization for 57 unions representing 12.3 million workers."

I knew they were in favor of a path to citizenship and comprehensive reform rather than enforcement only, but I didn't know they were publicly opposing this.

[AlphaCentauri]

20. I agree with the Unions

Obama immigration polices are unhuman

[sledgehammer]

23. Do you agree with the unions on this?

"The union, which grew its ranks in California and other states by attracting immigrants, regardless of their status"

That's breaking the law and it's affecting jobs big time. Anyone who is involved in this should be held accountable.

BTW, I'm not against amnesty. As long as certain fines and backtaxes are paid I think a path to citizenship is the only reasonable solution. However, it has to come with serious steps to restrict the flow of illegal immigration in the future, primarily by holding the employers more and more accountable.

[AlphaCentauri]

43. I agree with labor rights regardless of their immigration status

http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20110130/ISSUE01/301309979

[Vattel]

27. agreed

[sarcasmo]

18. This should have happened years ago. Every company should be held accountable.

[sledgehammer]

30. Agreed 100%! n/t

[tammywammy]

36. +1 n/t

[AlphaCentauri]

19. Now I'll feel safer from those terrorist n/t

[WatsonT]

24. Good

The way our economy is (both the downturn and the move away from cheap industrial labor) we don't need millions of illegal and largely unskilled laborers.

Get full employment and a healthy middle class then we'll talk about letting in more immigrants through legal channels.

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

This week is our first quarter 2011 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

Click here to donate

[underpants]

42. Hit Smithfield Packing and the Tyson Foods operation and then we are talking

but I am sure they won't do that

[sarcasmo]

48. Tyson Foods would be a good start.