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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:08 AM
Original message
Egypt's New Military Rulers To Ban Union Meetings
Source: Common Dreams/Reuters

Published on Sunday, February 13, 2011 by Reuters
Egypt's New Military Rulers To Ban Union Meetings
by Marwa Awad and Alistair Lyon

BREAKING

Egyptian protesters stage a sit-in in Tahrir Square, rejecting army's appeal to leave. (John Moore/Getty Images) CAIRO - Egypt's new military rulers will issue a warning on Sunday against anyone who creates "chaos and disorder", an army source said.

The Higher Military Council will also ban meetings by labour unions or professional syndicates, effectively forbidding strikes, and tell all Egyptians to get back to work after the unrest that toppled Hosni Mubarak.

The army will also say it acknowledges and protects the right of people to protest, the source said.
© 2011 Reuters


Read more: http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/02/13-1
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. That sounds like bad news to me. nt
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. Doesn't need to be.
The problem with revolutions once they've been won is keeping them from going bad. It's the same with all change in a brittle, ossified system.

The Iranian revolution led to the ouster of the Shah. The real Russian revolution led to the ouster of the tsar. Unfortunately, those aren't the revolutions celebrated: The Iranian revolution celebrates the installation of a new dictatorship as much as ousting the shah, and overlooks the time period between one and the other. The rhetoric around the Russian Revolution says it ousted the tsar, but it ousted Kerensky--the tsar had abdicated months before and showed no signs of trying to regain power.

Tito's demise, as also Brezhnev's, led to an eventual breakdown in the established order in Jugoslavija and Russia. No strong leader came along to impose order and maintain balance. Gorbachev and the Politburo intentionally tried upsetting the apple cart, hoping to be able to restack the apples in a way to meet their original goals, but the apples got away from them. Nobody succeeded Tito, either.

In these cases the loss of a strong leader led to instability. In the first two cases they'd disposed of the strong leader and didn't want a replacement. In the second, the strong leader hadn't the guts to continue to rule by decree. Either way, the resulting weakness and lack of civil society led to a lot of special interests all competing. Nobody wanted to compromise and the result was a bunch of independent groups all striving for as much power as they could get, not just as much power as they should get. The better organized groups, the simulacra of civil society (since they, too, were run from the top down) were able to gain control or at least break away. In the case of Gorbachev, there was no better organized group.

The general rule: After a strong central government falls, in the absence of a strong civil society you're going to have instability. The result is more likely to be another strong central government than the rapid promotion of civil society that leads to a viable democracy. We may like democracy, but we fear instability and penury more than we fear political oppression.

The alternative, the evolution of a tyranny to a democracy, is about as likely if a civil society is allowed to form independently. This happened in S. Korea, for instance. The US started off as a tyranny ruled from afar, allowing civil society to form and provide a sufficient (as history tells us) basis for a democracy. Iran is smart in not allowing such groups to form without a government minder. So is Hamas.

By "civil society" I don't mean politically active groups. I mean any kind of self-forming and self-governing group that members form freely for purposes, groups that provide a kind of "roof" under which members are free to interact, form common goals and modi operandi, and form shared values. These can be political, but can be flower arranging or religious, social work or amateur theatrical. This provides a training ground for negotiation and compromise, for leadership and team work--skills that are go way beyond protesting and rioting and show a developed ability to create and govern. When you find a community that lacks them, that doesn't form them, you know that you're not going to get good, independent, reasonable leaders out of it.

What's important isn't that such a group forms, or even a couple; what matters is that a lot of groups freely form. If just one or a few groups form, that small group of people will form the basis of the new "democracy" and be able, if so minded, to get the upper hand. Democracy is unlikely to continue after that. Even "good autocrats" are nearly invariably still autocrats first--in this they're no differnt from "bad autocrats"--and "good" second.

If the Egyptian Army actually wants democracy, the best way to do it is to allow civil society to get some underpinnings, even if it risks having the pre-organized groups flourish. Maintain stability until emotions are calmed down so that the protestors don't feel their oats, having gotten one set of demands they could then form a second set of demands that morphs into a third set. That's dictatorship by committee. They don't want one of the pre-organized groups to be in a position of simply taking power. Maintain a kind of superstructure, for the time being, and prevent "democracy" from being so disruptive and lopsided that the result is instability or rapid dislocations. This, too, is risky, because it requires that the military autocrats stop being autocrats first.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Thanks for the thoughtful response. You may well be correct and
I certainly hope that you are. nt
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Rage for Order Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. Meet the new boss....
Same as the old boss
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. Hmmmmmmmm.
So, "people can protest" but not "meet"...?
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. Not good.
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Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
5. Didn't see this coming...
:sarcasm:


I wonder how long it will be before there is a police-state lock down?
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Lol.
Gotta get things back to "normal" after all, get traffic moving, and
make sure the army fatcats rake in those millions as before.

Now what is actually changed again?
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Kip Humphrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Mubarak retired with a big, fat retirement bonus. Oh, and the protesters went home. That's
all (so far). Now. the crackdowns begin...
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
6. Suddenly Stupid has a new face. The "Higher Military Council" doesn't
seem to get it. They are such fools.
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ej510 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
8. New dictatorship in power.
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windowpilot Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. Back to work slaves
n/t
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
10. "the source said" - more crappy anonymous reporting.
no names, no links, no citations, no sources.
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. i wondered too...
but posted it because, if true, then it is important info,
there is SO much we do not know.
I wish it had been better sourced as well.
peace to you bhikkhu,
kpete
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. I wish the media were better about this
And it mostly gets me because this was about the kind of thing that built the case for the Iraq war - every day there was some new story reinforcing some other story, built upon what we "learned" the week before, but then when you really looked there was nothing there at all. I imagine most people only need two independent sources of unsupported hearsay to consider a thing proven fact...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. It is crappy reporting. Best is at the Al Jazeera English
site (good reporters on the ground) & the twitter #Jan25 feed. When I crashed last night, the police were trying to get protesters to leave and the BBC were calling those who refused "hard care", idiots. There were reports that when the police tried to clear the square, a call went out, and many more came to sit in.

Haven't checked this morning yet, though.
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zehnkatzen Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. Meet the new boss … worse than the old boss (someone had to say it!)
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IScreamSundays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
14. When everyone was jumping for joy on Friday
I had a sinking feeling that this was not going to be a good change. We ought to know better. The useless eaters are NEVER going to effect any real change anywhere in this world.
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
15. This doesn't sound good..............
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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
20. Hitler banned unions too

No right to associate anymore.

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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
21. bbbut they've had only a few days! why not WAIT for all the FACTS to come out before criticizing? nt
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-11 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
22. why am I not surprised? the power-mad are the 1st to try & grab top political
positions




it's time good people understand the implications and step into that "vacuum" quickly
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