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sabra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 10:20 AM Original message |
School Sued Over Muslim Teacher's Pilgrimage |
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cleanhippie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 10:26 AM Response to Original message |
1. I hope she wins...big. |
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naaman fletcher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 10:32 AM Response to Reply #1 |
2. Nobody was telling her she can't believe what she wants to. |
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cleanhippie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 10:45 AM Response to Reply #2 |
3. Maybe. |
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MedicalAdmin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 10:59 AM Response to Reply #2 |
4. Actually they were telling her that. |
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La Lioness Priyanka (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 11:01 AM Response to Reply #4 |
6. well said. nt |
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La Lioness Priyanka (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 11:00 AM Response to Reply #2 |
5. yet christians get christmas off, isnt that a bit convenient? additionally look into |
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MedicalAdmin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 11:09 AM Response to Reply #5 |
8. Yes, the entire school calander is set up to accomodate... |
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TheMadMonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 12:46 AM Response to Reply #8 |
51. The timing of the request and the exact nature of the refusal may... |
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forty6 (849 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 12:34 PM Response to Reply #51 |
54. Um she asked for UN-PAID leave, so her salary would cover the costs |
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TheMadMonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 08:16 PM Response to Reply #54 |
63. Overhead costs to simply keep her on the payroll (without pay)... |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 12:57 PM Response to Reply #5 |
30. if those christians hadn't put christmas on top of solstice, it would be "winter break", actually |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 11:24 AM Response to Reply #2 |
12. we are a new nation of laws not your opinions |
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No Elephants (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 07:51 AM Response to Reply #12 |
73. People are free to believe a case has been wrongly decided. |
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alfredo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 12:51 PM Response to Reply #2 |
57. Schools are out during the Christian holidays. |
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wordpix (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 10:09 PM Response to Reply #1 |
48. I don't agree -- a teacher who gets summer + Xmas, Thxgiving, & spring breaks off |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 11:04 AM Response to Original message |
7. Deleted message |
La Lioness Priyanka (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 11:17 AM Response to Reply #7 |
9. yeah, she is special cos she is a minority and school calendars |
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Freddie Stubbs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 11:22 AM Response to Reply #9 |
11. The key word is "reasonable" |
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La Lioness Priyanka (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 11:25 AM Response to Reply #11 |
13. reasonable is one that can be shown to have no undue hardship on a business |
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Creative (831 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 11:35 AM Response to Reply #11 |
15. I don't believe "reasonable" covers abandoning your students for three weeks. |
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La Lioness Priyanka (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 11:37 AM Response to Reply #15 |
17. is she a parent or a teacher? how is abandonment? if she were sick |
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Creative (831 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 12:08 PM Response to Reply #17 |
22. Do you think Mormons should be allowed to use this law for their missions? |
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cleanhippie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 04:00 PM Response to Reply #22 |
36. Perhaps, yes. |
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LanternWaste (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 12:00 PM Response to Reply #15 |
20. Maternity leave is unreasonable? |
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Creative (831 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 12:08 PM Response to Reply #20 |
21. Point taken. The law in question was designed to cover maternity, family illnesses, etc. |
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La Lioness Priyanka (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 12:16 PM Response to Reply #21 |
24. no . it wasnt. the 1964 civil rights law covers religion |
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Tempest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 12:53 PM Response to Reply #24 |
28. "Creative" is getting creative |
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No Elephants (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 06:35 AM Response to Reply #24 |
67. The second half of the equation, though, is whether asking for almost 3 extra weeks off |
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cleanhippie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 04:01 PM Response to Reply #21 |
37. Wrong, the law was created EXPLICITLY for this kind of thing. |
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No Elephants (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 06:39 AM Response to Reply #37 |
68. "Reasonable accommodation" and "undue hardship" are the explicit terms. |
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No Elephants (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 07:01 AM Response to Reply #21 |
69. You seem to be confusing the Civil Rights Act of 1964 with the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993 |
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No Elephants (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 07:21 AM Response to Reply #20 |
70. Civil rights, whether under the Act or the Constitution itself, is always a balance of interests. |
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cleanhippie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 03:59 PM Response to Reply #15 |
35. Hahahahahaha! "Abandoning your students"!!!!! Hahahaha! |
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wordpix (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 10:15 PM Response to Reply #15 |
49. +1 |
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cleanhippie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 03:58 PM Response to Reply #11 |
34. In this case, the courts will. |
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Creative (831 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 11:34 AM Response to Reply #9 |
14. The school calendar is not based on a religious calendar, it is based on the agrarian calendar. |
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La Lioness Priyanka (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 11:36 AM Response to Reply #14 |
16. as a matter of fact it is reasonable to have a substitute teacher |
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Creative (831 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 12:15 PM Response to Reply #16 |
23. Debate...? Christian needs...? Oh boy...you have revealed the true nature |
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La Lioness Priyanka (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 12:16 PM Response to Reply #23 |
25. exactly what do you think my mission is? christmas and easter |
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Tempest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 12:56 PM Response to Reply #23 |
29. And you have revealed just how far over your head you are |
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Creative (831 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 02:37 PM Response to Reply #29 |
31. Mormon Missions are quite similar in that you have to leave the area for quite some time. |
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La Lioness Priyanka (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 03:38 PM Response to Reply #31 |
32. you really dont see a difference in 24 months rather than 3 weeks? |
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Creative (831 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 05:57 PM Response to Reply #32 |
39. Yeah, I have enough common sense to see the difference. The problem with these |
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La Lioness Priyanka (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 09:32 PM Response to Reply #39 |
46. rights expand. its the nature of rights. and no the religious festivities |
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marshall (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 07:35 PM Response to Reply #32 |
44. Actually the Hajj just takes one week |
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riderinthestorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 10:06 PM Response to Reply #44 |
47. I know. My Muslim friends tell me the same. Not sure why she wants 3 wks. |
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Tempest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 01:14 PM Response to Reply #44 |
59. Planning, travel and adjusting to time zone differences |
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riderinthestorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 02:22 PM Response to Reply #59 |
61. The length of time for the actual ritual is 3 - 6 days depending on how extensive you are. |
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No Elephants (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 07:32 AM Response to Reply #44 |
72. Wiki says that. A very observant friend who made the Pilgrimage says only 2-3 days need be |
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MedicalAdmin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 12:16 PM Response to Reply #31 |
53. Bad example my friend. |
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wordpix (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 10:18 PM Response to Reply #16 |
50. dead of winter is not huge agrarian need but was hard to get around in snow/cold |
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No Elephants (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 07:57 AM Response to Reply #50 |
75. Not sure they had ten days off then, though. Are you? |
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dflprincess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 10:10 PM Response to Reply #16 |
64. No, the dead of winter is not a time of huge agrarian needs |
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Tempest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 12:45 PM Response to Reply #14 |
26. You're wrong |
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cleanhippie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 04:03 PM Response to Reply #14 |
38. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. |
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No Elephants (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 07:29 AM Response to Reply #14 |
71. Summer vacation, maybe. Not Christmas break or Easter break. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 07:55 AM Response to Reply #9 |
74. More progressive |
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No Elephants (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 07:58 AM Response to Reply #74 |
76. SOME younger DUers are more conservative. Not all. |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 08:18 AM Response to Reply #76 |
78. If what you got from that is that I think younger DUers are "more conservative"... |
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kestrel91316 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 11:20 AM Response to Reply #7 |
10. Nah. She deserves the SAME right to reasonable accomodation of her |
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thereismore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 11:56 AM Response to Original message |
18. I find it difficult to sympathize with a teacher who wants to do a bogus religious |
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La Lioness Priyanka (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 03:43 PM Response to Reply #18 |
33. the hajj will always fall within the school year due to its timing |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 07:21 PM Response to Reply #33 |
41. Always? As far as I can tell, it moves through the Gregorian calendar |
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harun (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 07:32 PM Response to Reply #33 |
43. It moves back about 10 days each year. So eventually would make it to summer but |
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hughee99 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 09:08 PM Response to Reply #43 |
45. In 2019 it is around the end of August, and will be over the summer |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 08:21 AM Response to Reply #33 |
79. No, it rotates |
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hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 11:57 AM Response to Original message |
19. Odds are the school district would have got a better teacher back. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 10:49 AM Response to Reply #19 |
52. Deleted message |
Tempest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 12:51 PM Response to Original message |
27. I know of two Jewish teachers given time off for pilgrimages to Israel |
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Bigmack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 07:07 PM Response to Original message |
40. Not to be Solomonic about it... |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 07:23 PM Response to Reply #40 |
42. That sounds reasonable to me - get her to cover any extra cost of a substitute (nt) |
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MedicalAdmin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 01:49 PM Response to Reply #42 |
60. What extra costs? |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 02:32 PM Response to Reply #60 |
62. There are admin costs associated with getting replacements |
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MedicalAdmin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 05:35 AM Response to Reply #62 |
65. Like what? |
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xor (180 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 12:42 PM Response to Reply #40 |
56. is that $75/day? |
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xor (180 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 12:40 PM Response to Original message |
55. Seems a bit screwy to me... It didn't state how far in advanced she asked for this though |
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X_Digger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 12:55 PM Response to Original message |
58. I'm not a religious person, but the Civil Rights Act is the law. |
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No Elephants (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 06:21 AM Response to Original message |
66. So, we're all going to pretend 3 weeks or a kid in middle school with a sub |
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CBGLuthier (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 08:05 AM Response to Original message |
77. I personally despise the muslim religion and culture BUT I take her side on this issue |
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