"Mystery Missile" Was a Plane, Pentagon Says

[sabra]

Source: CBS News/AP

Military and Civilian Experts Now Say It Was an Airplane, Not a Missile, that Left Mysterious Vapor Trail off Calif. Coast

(CBS/AP) The Defense Department is now saying that it was an airplane, not a missile, that left a mysterious vapor trail off the coast of Southern California.

"There is no evidence to suggest that this is anything else other than a condensation trail from an aircraft," said Pentagon spokesman Colonel Dave Lapan, who reiterated that there was no threat to America.

The video of what looks for all the world like the contrail of a missile was shot Monday evening by KCBS cameraman Gil Leyvas from a news helicopter over Los Angeles.

"I saw a big plume coming up, rising from looked like beyond the horizon and it continued to grow," Leyvas said.

Meanwhile, an FAA official told CBS News: "We don't know the exact location, trajectory or altitude of the contrail, so we can't determine if it belonged to a specific aircraft."

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/10/national/main7041217.shtml?tag=cbsContent;cbsCarousel

[Lucian]

1. Yeah, it looked nothing like a plane.

Does the Pentagon think we're idiots?

[valerief]

3. It doesn't matter whether they do or not. They're running the show. nt

[Lucian]

8. Just because they're running the show doesn't mean they're right.

[jtuck004]

18. Or truthful. n/t

[valerief]

162. Might is right. Truth is an illusion perpetrated by the sane. The world is insane. Clearly. nt

[chervilant]

48. ON the contrary,

It DOES matter! AND, it's past time for ALL of us--We The People, The Hoi Polloi, or WHATEVER we decide to call ourselves--to come to terms with these vile cretins!! If we continue to shrug our shoulders and say 'it doesn't matter,' because 'they're running the show,' we will have to shut our wee mouths as we witness the ongoing, INEVITABLE decline of our once great nation.

Our forebears thought this nation is worth fighting for--why don't we?!?

[valerief]

163. Get the young people to stop joining the US military, which protects the uber wealthy.

Or should I say the United Tijuanas of America? After all, the uber wealthy want all of the US become Tijuana.

[bobburgster]

187. I agree....if we shrug, what message are we giving?

Do or say what you want.

[DeSwiss]

92. Oh yeah? Maybe they aren't. n/t

[sarcasmo]

6. Exactly, just like the Pentagon plane. The Government is getting worse with their lies.

[katty]

125. yeah they are getting very sloppy about this

[spin]

9. Yes. (n/t)

[HuckleB]

22. Say what?

Not a Missile Over California, It's Simply....
http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/news/story/41418/not_a_missile_over_california_1.asp

Mystery Missile Wasn't a Missile at All
http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/aerospace/aviation/mystery-missile-wasnt-a-missile-at-all

Jet contrails from some angles look like missile trails
http://uncinus.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/4/

It was US Airways flight 808
http://blog.bahneman.com/content/it-was-us-airways-flight-808

[frylock]

34. Editor of Jane’s Missiles and Rockets: “It’s a Solid Propellant Missile”

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/10/earlyshow/main7040379.shtml

[HuckleB]

42. Ah, so you found a classic global warming denialist type.

One "expert" says something that several others say is BS, and those others show the evidence to back up their claims.

[Dogtown]

81. Perhaps

Jane's expert wasn't confined to the Pentagon's talking-points.

Jane's is a renowned weapons & defense publisher, not beholden to the Pentagon for funding or information.

When listening to the Pentagon & it's minions, it's appropriate to turn on the bullshit filter.

:patriot:

[HuckleB]

84. Perhaps it's always easy to find an "expert" to push media created hype.

[Dogtown]

104. The Pentagon has no trouble

finding willing fig-eaters to peddle their filth.


BTW, Eliot was a banker. As pseudo-intellectual as Rand.

[HuckleB]

106. Mystery 'missile' likely a jet contrail, says expert

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19704-mystery-missile-likely-a-jet-contrail-says-expert.html

So everyone is in on the conspiracy!

:rofl:

[Dogtown]

111. I didn't say there was a conspiracy.

I haven't even researched the story.

However, the Pentagon has formulated a few conspiracies and has involved "independent" sources to push their propoganda, wouldn't you agree?

Leaping to their defense is...interesting.

:patriot:

[HuckleB]

112. Then why are you pushing this conspiracy?

:shrug:

No one is leaping to anyone's defense. Scientists who looked at this yesterday noted that it was likely a plane. Those links were posted at DU, but were apparently ignored by posters who prefer to push conspiracies without warrant.

[Name removed]

120. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HuckleB]

127. Ah, so you can't answer why you'll push a conspiracy theory.

Instead, you go with baseless ad hominem attacks on my character.

That's quite pitiful. And that's being kind.

[HuckleB]

146. BTW, what the military offered is only what everyone else who looked had already discovered.

:think:

If you're always fighting some imaginary machine, and using cardboard cutout attacks on others, you're not going to see much of the world as it actually is. You're actually putting yourself in a box, and you can't do much, or see much, from that box.

[Mr Generic Other]

150. if it were a plane

wouldn't it be on all air traffic controllers screens?
it seems that the plane theory could be easily confirmed.

[HuckleB]

151. If it wasn't a plane, you think it wouldn't be on their screens?

:shrug:

Sorry, but the media created conspiracy theory is dead. It was an airplane.

[Mr Generic Other]

152. then just what plane was it?

i don't know whether or not it was a plane but it seems that the government and air traffic controllers ought to be able to verify exactly what plane was up there at that moment and dispel any questions that exist. they have not done this but rather offer as an answer that it was "probably" a plane.
it seems to me that this is why so many question the veracity of the pentagon's answer.

[HuckleB]

153. Why?

It's a vague video taken by a TV crew.

Further, the same thing happened at about the same time the next day, as people watched closer to confirm it was a plane.

BTW, it happens all the time: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=sunset+contrail

[Mr Generic Other]

155. i agree that the video is vague.

but i can't see why the video is the only evidence that exists to be analyzed.
there should be records on a number of air traffic controller radar systems in the area that could easily verify what was in the air space at that time and place. why is it that the public has to wait a couple of days for authorities to come up with a "likely" suspect?
it should have been easy for authorities to verify what produced the contrail and convince the public to accept their analysis.
as an historian i know that the government has lied about and covered up lost warheads and not revealed the truth until years after the events. the government has lied to the public about plenty of other things too.
i don't want to believe that the government lies but i would be a fool to believe that they never do.
conspiracy theories only exist when folk don't believe the official story. if the story was believed by everyone then there would be no dissenters.
the same holds true for 9/11 truthers questions as it does for those who wonder who really killed kennedy.
i don't pretend to know the answers to the questions brought up by these groups but i do expect those who are in charge to provide believable answers, supported by real evidence, not just "likely" scenarios.
what i can see in the evidence provided by you and others is a variety of individuals who know more about missiles than i disagreeing on what the video reveals and the military (who ought to be able to provide conclusive proof) only offering opinions too.
none of it convinces me of much except that supposed experts are guessing about what was seen over the pacific ocean the other evening.

[HuckleB]

171. You're not getting it.

This type of contrail is common. Placing it via such a video at a particular spot and a particular time is not so easy.

The evidence is quite prolific. It was a plane, and it's time we stop going to media fed conspiracy crap. We need to show that we are smarter than that.

[Mr Generic Other]

174. sorry

no evidence just opinions.
i think you are the one who doesn't get it.

[HuckleB]

183. There's a great deal of evidence.

You can choose to ignore it, all you want. Your decision to ignore it does not make it go away.

[Mr Generic Other]

189. i am not ignoring anything.

lots of people thinking something does not make it so.
it may have been an airplane and it may not have been one.
"it happens all the time" is not evidence.
it is a logical fallacy.

[HuckleB]

192. It's funny.

You say you're not doing something, all the while you do it.

:crazy:

[CLANG]

116. "likely"???? You call that evidence I take it.

[HuckleB]

118. It's more than you've offered.

It's also just frosting on top of the evidence that shows your conspiracy to be just silly nonsense.

[CLANG]

122. That's because there is no evidence of what it really was - now be honest.

[HuckleB]

128. Thank you for proving that you've read none of the information about this matter.

Wow!

[CLANG]

161. You are not being honest, nor logical - bye bye

[HuckleB]

172. Now that's hilarious.

:rofl:

[Phil The Cat]

143. Missile Math

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercontinental_ballistic_missile

The following flight phases can be distinguished:

boost phase: 3 to 5 minutes (shorter for a solid rocket than for a liquid-propellant rocket); altitude at the end of this phase is typically 150 to 400 km depending on the trajectory chosen, typical burnout speed is 7 km/s.

midcourse phase: approx. 25 minutes—sub-orbital spaceflight in an elliptic orbit; the orbit is part of an ellipse with a vertical major axis;

the apogee (halfway the midcourse phase) is at an altitude of approximately 1,200 km; the semi-major axis is between 3,186 km and 6,372 km; the projection of the orbit on the Earth's surface is close to a great circle, slightly displaced due to earth rotation during the time of flight; the missile may release several independent warheads, and penetration aids such as metallic-coated balloons, aluminum chaff, and full-scale warhead decoys.

reentry phase (starting at an altitude of 100 km): 2 minutes—impact is at a speed of up to 4 km/s (for early ICBMs less than 1 km/s); see also maneuverable reentry vehicle.

-----------------------------------------------------

In the 10 minutes of footage, an ICMB would be well over a thousand miles away!

I want to believe, I'm not saying the military would never do something like that, but this time the math is against it!

Damn you, science! Damn you, math!

[RedCloud]

52. Does too! Planes always fly straight up. It's good for the people on board...

And they land the same way, straight down. Yeah! That's the picture.

Didn't you know science got all scrambled up as we entered the alertnate universe where morons get elected?

[Lucian]

123. But...but...but...

someone gave me four websites saying it was contrails! :eyes:

[HuckleB]

130. And there are plenty more, most of them posted before this announcement.

Looks like evidence doesn't mean anything in your world.

What is happening to DU?

[zappaman]

131. did the 9/11 forum spring a leak today?

Or is it a full moon?

[HuckleB]

132. It looks like the 9/11 forum exploded.

The remnants are everywhere.

[IDemo]

149. Indeed they are

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4609868&mesg_id=4609868

[aggiesal]

139. And it's moving waaaaay toooo fast ...

to be considered a plane.

I do believe the Pentagon thinks the majority are idiots, yes!

[slackmaster]

140. It looks sub-sonic to me, and it's not accelerating as a missile would be

:hi:

[aggiesal]

144. I think that because the video has ...

the object moving away from the camera, it's harder
to determine if it is accelerating or if it's at a constant speed.

The contrail definitely does not look or reflect like a typical
plane contrail. It appears to have some gases in it to reflect
the neon colors. And it doesn't appear to be dissipating as much
like a plane's contrail does.

Just my observation.

[zappaman]

145. weird

so the same exact thing happened exactly 24 hours later.
OH NO THEY FIRED ANOTHER MISSILE!!!

http://blog.bahneman.com/content/it-was-us-airways-flight-808

C'mon people...stop the missile crap.
We're smarter than that.

[slackmaster]

147. No, the video has the object moving up and to the right in the frame

You can't tell for sure whether it's coming toward you or going away without analyzing all of the available information. The contrail, extending down and to the left of the object, can be seen for a very long distance, maybe 100 miles or more. Trails always expand over time. If the trail originated on or near the coast, people near the beach closest to the point of launch would have gotten a much better view of it, and almost certainly would have posted stills and videos all over the 'Net by now.

The width of the trail lower in the frame creates an illusion that the oldest part of the trail is closer to the cameras, when it is actually much farther away; out over the open ocean.

Your eyes are seduced by the dramatically tapered vapor trail into thinking that the image of the vehicle is getting smaller over time, but at no time in any of the videos is the vehicle distinguishable at all - It's too far away for you to see.

Airplane, probably a commercial flight from Honolulu to Phoenix or Las Vegas.

[Vehl]

148. these are the same folks who explain away all UFO sightings as "atmospheric phenomena"

....even when most scientists agree that at least 5% of the UFO cases cannot be explained away that way (or by the "weather balloon...dummies excuse).


They have always counted on the ability of people to believe authority figures.

[karynnj]

166. It actually is the best explanation

One thing here that I never heard before was that it was shot from a helicopter. As I never heard that I assumed it was shot from the ground - and in that case it looks like nothing I've ever seen.

A scientist pointed out on CNN that he didn't think it could be a missile because it changed direction slightly at several points. His conclusion - given radar showed nothing unusual - was that the simplest explanation was that of plane. Other explanations - many from the RW simply do not make sense.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. Yes...it...was.

Pentagon :loveya:

[doc03]

4. Well at least it isn't a weather balloon n/t

[AmandaMae]

5. yeah....ok then. Not like any plane I've ever seen, but sure...

[HuckleB]

26. This was explained all over DU yesterday.

Not a Missile Over California, It's Simply....
http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/news/story/41418/not_a_missile_over_california_1.asp

Mystery Missile Wasn't a Missile at All
http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/aerospace/aviation/mystery-missile-wasnt-a-missile-at-all

Jet contrails from some angles look like missile trails
http://uncinus.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/4/

It was US Airways flight 808
http://blog.bahneman.com/content/it-was-us-airways-flight-808

[frylock]

35. Editor of Jane’s Missiles and Rockets: “It’s a Solid Propellant Missile”

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/10/earlyshow/main7040379.shtml

[HuckleB]

44. You really are the conspiracy pusher, aren't you!

:rofl:

The links I've offered include actual evidence. Your denialist offers nothing but a great opportunity to get on the news!

[CLANG]

49. You've offered no evidence, just people covering their asses with lies.

[HuckleB]

53. I've offered a great deal of evidence.

You're playing chicken little.

[CLANG]

57. Show me the evidence - I've read all your links and I've missed it.

[HuckleB]

You haven't read the links.

You've shown that don't care about evidence.

[CLANG]

62. Now you are clairvoyant too? You're killing me!

[HuckleB]

65. And another BS response.

Keep running around circles.

[CLANG]

69. You are the one running in circles with your hair on fire.

[HuckleB]

71. Says the guy who is surrounded by mirrors.

:rofl:

[CLANG]

74. This is going nowhere. Maybe you should go back to your station.

[HuckleB]

77. You're offering a conspiracy theory that has no basis in the real world.

You ignore the evidence against your conspiracy theory, and then you say "this is going nowhere."

:rofl:

DUH!

[CLANG]

82. You HAVE NO EVIDENCE. Just various people saying it's an airplane.

That is not evidence in a court of law.

[HuckleB]

85. Yeah, they're just people, and none of offered evidence.

:rofl:

[CLANG]

89. If you know what evidence is, then you're correct, they didn't.

[HuckleB]

98. Unlike conspiracy theorists, I do know what evidence is, and I look at it.

Hasta...

[CLANG]

101. Hasta when? Two minutes?

[frylock]

78. i really don't give two shits one way or the other..

what i do give three shits about is people spamming a thread with the same fucking post.

[HuckleB]

83. So trying to help people get the information they need to stop spreading a baseless rumor...

... is bad?

BS.

You do care, or you wouldn't continue to push this ridiculous conspiracy crap. Nor would you push the ugly ad hominem crap you pulled down below.

SHEESH.

[frylock]

91. i could overlook the first four times that you helped people get the information they need..

here's a novel concept; start a thread to help people get that information they need.

[HuckleB]

100. BS.

Funny thing. The information I posted, was offered yesterday in normal doses. Yet, today, when it is confirmed, the first several posts to this thread, as well as the majority of posts, continued to push the baseless conspiracy theory about a missile. Somehow, that doesn't bother you, but someone who offers up reality bothers you.

:wow:

It appears that you did not want this conspiracy crap to be tossed aside, and so you got mad and posted more crap all over the board. Now you are using a contrived excuse for it. You've pulled similar crap over and over again. You always blame other people for your behavior, and try to pretend that you don't really care about X, Y or Z.

I'm not buying your routine. It's old.

[Phil The Cat]

136. Airplane Contrail: Common and boring

Secret Missile Launch: Exotic and cool!

The secret missile launch wins!

As much as I want to believe the secret missile thing because it is exciting and helps the progressive agenda, there does seem to be a lot of evidence for contrail! I've seen similar ones: Look like they are going straight up, then they angle or change direction, or you are driving and change perspectives, or they continue and fly over your head!

[HuckleB]

185. Yup.

:toast:

[Lorien]

173. Yeah, riiiight. I live by both a major airport and Cape Canaveral

that video looks identical to a rocket being shot out of Canaveral, which happens fairly frequently here. That's no plane.

[HuckleB]

184. Nice try.

That video looks like the videos of other planes with similar contrails, and then there are the 6,000 plus similar photos of planes doing the same thing on flickr.

Conspiracy theories might be fun, but they serve no good purpose.

[thereismore]

7. And here I thought it was a weather balloon. Silly me. nt

[AsahinaKimi]

137. Pssst... no one even mentioned..

Look! Up in the sky.. its a bird, its a plane..

[lamp_shade]

10. Hahahahahahaha

It was reported YESTERDAY MORNING that it was probably a plane. I've been laughing at these "hair on fire" posts ever since then.

[HuckleB]

29. +1

[CLANG]

117. You do know what the word "probable" means, right?

[Renew Deal]

11. So they don't want to admit what happened?

Who launched the missile?

[HuckleB]

27. Are you serious?

Not a Missile Over California, It's Simply....
http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/news/story/41418/not_a_missile_over_california_1.asp

Mystery Missile Wasn't a Missile at All
http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/aerospace/aviation/mystery-missile-wasnt-a-missile-at-all

Jet contrails from some angles look like missile trails
http://uncinus.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/4/

It was US Airways flight 808
http://blog.bahneman.com/content/it-was-us-airways-flight-808

[frylock]

37. Editor of Jane’s Missiles and Rockets: “It’s a Solid Propellant Missile”

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/10/earlyshow/main7040379.shtml

[slackmaster]

58. Appeal to Authority Fallacy. Doug Richardson is not an expert on photointerpretation.

:nuke:

[CLANG]

119. But he is an expert on missiles.

It was "probably", "likely" a plane. Yeah that's convincing...

[slackmaster]

133. It's good that he is an expert on missiles, but missiles per se are not the issue

Unless he witnessed the event with his own eyes, the real issue is one of photointerpretation, which most people are not very good at.

[Iggo]

12. yEAH YEAH wHUTEVA pENATGON!

:rofl:

[leveymg]

13. It could be a plane, rocket-boosted and powered by a ramjet. Hence, the visible flames and smoke.

Possibly, that was a test launch of an unmanned hypersonic aircraft of a type that the Air Force and DARPA have been developing for a couple decades.



But more likely, I think, it was a large missile - either a ballistic missile or a large ABM interceptor missile, such as the Arrow 2 that has been test launched several times from Mugu Point Navy missile test center in recent years. Part of the Mugu Point complex, north of LA, is a launching facility on Saint Nicolas Island, located thirty miles north-west of Catalina Island, near the location that CBS identified as the launch site. Because the Arrow is a joint Boeing-Israeli project, there may be some special sensitivity about this test. But, that's just speculation on my part and by a few others.

%3Fw%3D300%26h%3D375

Arrow 2 launch on July 29, 2004, at the Naval Air Station Point Mugu Missile Test Center, during AST USFT#1.

[Xithras]

14. It probably was a plane.

Read this: http://uncinus.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/4

The photo in the beginning isn't of the "missile launch" a few days ago, but was taken many months ago. It looks identical.

The Earth is curved. At sunset, sunlight illuminates contrails near the horizon far more than contrails directly above us. Because of the curvature of the planet, contrails at the horizon line appear to be travelling "straight up".

The site at the link explains the phenomena better than I do.

[leveymg]

16. The CBS footage clearly shows flames shooting from behind the object. If that was a commercial jet,

it was on fire. I'm afraid, no, the sunset contrail effect that article describes does not accord with the particular facts in this incident.

[SnakeEyes]

19. umm...

i see no flames.

[leveymg]

25. Look at this version:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/192192/nbc-today-show-missile-mystery-an-optical-illusion

That's not reflection of sunlight off a polished aluminum surface and a jet contrail - that's a rocket exhaust.

[HuckleB]

24. No, it doesn't.

Not a Missile Over California, It's Simply....
http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/news/story/41418/not_a_missile_over_california_1.asp

Mystery Missile Wasn't a Missile at All
http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/aerospace/aviation/mystery-missile-wasnt-a-missile-at-all

Jet contrails from some angles look like missile trails
http://uncinus.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/4/

It was US Airways flight 808
http://blog.bahneman.com/content/it-was-us-airways-flight-808

[frylock]

38. Editor of Jane’s Missiles and Rockets: “It’s a Solid Propellant Missile”

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/10/earlyshow/main7040379.shtml

[HuckleB]

59. Little Dougie denialist is now drinking a few with his global warming denialist pals.

In the meantime, the posts I offered show evidence that he's full of it.

Why are you pushing BS conspiracy nonsense?

[frylock]

86. this has nothing to do with global warming..

it's an observation by someone who may know a thing or three about the subject. i don't belive in a god. should i discount every opinion of experts on a myriad of subjects based on their religious belief?

[HuckleB]

93. There are always denialists. You know the comparison, and the reason for making it.

Apparently, you want DU to turn into conspiracy central. Go for it. I'll fight against it.

[leveymg]

68. That's the same conclusion that most people who've seen rocket launches come to.

Doug Richardson, the editor of Jane’s Missiles and Rockets, examined the video for the Times of London and said he was left with little doubt.

"It’s a solid propellant missile," he told the Times. "You can tell from the efflux ."

Richardson said it could have been a ballistic missile launched from a submarine or an interceptor, the defensive anti-missile weapon used by Navy surface ships.

But, why even attempt to keep this one under wraps? Strange.

[HuckleB]

72. No, it's not.

[leveymg]

95. If you have nothing more substantial to add to this thread, please depart.

The easiest way out for you is to the Right.

[HuckleB]

102. You've offered nothing to this thread.

Why are you here at all?

:shrug:

[Xithras]

124. There are no flames

Only the orange reflection of a setting sun off the white bottom of the aircraft.

The "missile" theory has one huge hole: The missile isn't accelerating. Depending on the target, ICBM's accelerate to between 7,000 and 15,000 MPH after launch, and don't reach their top speeds until they hit the top of their ballistic arc. From the standpoint of an observer near the launch area, an ICBM will appear to accelerate continuously until it vanishes into the distance.

Not only is the "missile" in the video is moving very slowly, but it's moving at a constant velocity and is not accelerating.

I've seen missile launches. That is NOT a missile launch.

[HuckleB]

129. Really? No flames?

Who would have thought that?

[Xithras]

134. Anyone who watched the video with a critical eye, really.

Ever watch a missile launch? They're bright, with lots of flame that is readily visible even in full daylight. There are plenty of videos of ICBM and orbital rocket launches on the web, if you want to compare.

The "flames" in the video were dull orange, and only showed up when the sky darkened a bit. Missiles don't have dull orange flames, and you would have seen them even when the sun was brighter. Orange reflections from a setting sun, on the other hand, would look exactly like dull orange flames from an extreme distance.

A real missile also wouldn't have hung out in the same part of the sky for a couple of minutes while the sun set and the sky darkened. Real ICBM's are generally out of sight over the horizon within a minute of launch. Again, they accelerate continuously to 15,000 mph from the moment of launch.

The "plume" without context, does look generally missile-like. Anyone who has watched a real launch, and who finds and watches the FULL video of the event, can clearly recognize that this wasn't a missile.

[Ter]

15. Yeah, just like Roswell was a weather balloon

I hate my lying federal government.

[HuckleB]

28. Uh huh.

The Aliens!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyInKT95eG0

[dipsydoodle]

17. Maybe it was

Superman. :shrug:

[Peter1x9]

20. Most likely it was some type of "Top Secret" US military tech.

But it could also be a Chinese or North Korean missile sub doing a "dry" run to see if they would be detected. If this is the case, they obviously weren't. :o

[HuckleB]

23. Nope.

Not a Missile Over California, It's Simply....
http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/news/story/41418/not_a_missile_over_california_1.asp

Mystery Missile Wasn't a Missile at All
http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/aerospace/aviation/mystery-missile-wasnt-a-missile-at-all

Jet contrails from some angles look like missile trails
http://uncinus.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/4/

It was US Airways flight 808
http://blog.bahneman.com/content/it-was-us-airways-flight-808

[frylock]

39. Editor of Jane’s Missiles and Rockets: “It’s a Solid Propellant Missile”

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/10/earlyshow/main7040379.shtml

[HuckleB]

105. Mystery 'missile' likely a jet contrail, says expert

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19704-mystery-missile-likely-a-jet-contrail-says-expert.html

[DonkeyHoTay]

158. George Ure's website (Missile Firing Solved???) and his link to a US gov doc

http://72.52.163.140/week.htm

Content VERY interesting but ... date of Bulletin #45 is a bit
too early for this incident. So... change 45 to 46 (twice) in
the URL and check out the next marine billetin. #46.

[LiberalLovinLug]

21. Like the hole in the Pentagon on 9/11 was caused by a passenger airplane

:hide:

[CLANG]

30. I've never seen a commercial jet fly that fast straight up.

[HuckleB]

31. Read up. This was explained yesterday.

Not a Missile Over California, It's Simply....
http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/news/story/41418/not_a_missile_over_california_1.asp

Mystery Missile Wasn't a Missile at All
http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/aerospace/aviation/mystery-missile-wasnt-a-missile-at-all

Jet contrails from some angles look like missile trails
http://uncinus.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/4/

It was US Airways flight 808
http://blog.bahneman.com/content/it-was-us-airways-flight-808

[CLANG]

32. You posted those links about 10 times now - they are lies, AFAIK.

[HuckleB]

33. I posted them to those who are spreading BS lies.

It's time to cut the conspiracy crap.

Apparently, you'd prefer to live in a fantasy land of conspiracy nonsense. Apparently, science means nothing to you, which, makes you quite vulnerable to being manipulated by optical illusions, at the very least.

:wow:

[CLANG]

40. If what you say is true, we should be having these reports about every day.

So, yes, I will live in the real world - where the government LIES! Or maybe you've never heard about that. :eyes:

[HuckleB]

47. BS.

That is the point. None of this was worth the time of day. The news manipulated you.

[CLANG]

54. Then why are you spending so much time trying to debunk it?

Do you work for the FEDs?

[HuckleB]

63. And now you're on to the ad hominem routine.

I would prefer that DU not be taken over by conspiracy lunacy. That would be bad for the site, to say the least.

[CLANG]

66. Do you know what ad hominem even means?

[HuckleB]

73. Yes, I do.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HuckleB]

88. You are pushing a baseless conspiracy theory.

You are making DU look like a site for lunacy.

That's why I won't drop this.

Nevermind the fact that you won't drop your fictions.

[CLANG]

94. All I want to see is evidence. That's all I ask.

[HuckleB]

96. You've been given the evidence, and you don't care about it.

Why pretend otherwise?

[CLANG]

99. Then why don't you point it out? And don't just post the same links.

There is no evidence or proof in those stories, just people saying, it wasn't a missile, and here's why. The "why" is open to debate by reasonable people, but since you will have none of it, I have to assume you are not a reasonable person.

[HuckleB]

103. Why don't you read?

Why are you playing juvenile games?

It's because you don't give a rat's arse about the real world.

You lost this conspiracy. It's dead, and only your fellow conspiracy mongers are going to continue with it.

Hasta...

[CLANG]

109. Now that's what I call ad hominem. Nice.

[lamp_shade]

76. The lunacy has crapped all over the OP's OP. What a shame. I hope they lock this thread soon.

[lamp_shade]

36. Get Over It. It was a plane.

[CLANG]

43. You get over it. It was a missle.

[HuckleB]

107. Mystery 'missile' likely a jet contrail, says expert

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19704-mystery-missile-likely-a-jet-contrail-says-expert.html

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[frylock]

41. Editor of Jane’s Missiles and Rockets: “It’s a Solid Propellant Missile”

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/10/earlyshow/main7040379.shtml

[CLANG]

45. Thank you for bringing sanity to this thread

But Doug Richardson, the editor of Jane’s Missiles and Rockets, examined the video for the Times of London and said he was left with little doubt.

"It’s a solid propellant missile," he told the Times. "You can tell from the efflux ."

Richardson said it could have been a ballistic missile launched from a submarine or an interceptor, the defensive anti-missile weapon used by Navy surface ships.

[lamp_shade]

60. Sanity? Hahahahahaha

[HuckleB]

50. Nothing but a claim from a newsmonger.

No evidence offered by that individual denialist. Meanwhile, the posts I offered offer actual evidence.

Cut the conspiracy crap.

[CLANG]

61. Evidence! ROTFLMFAO!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[HuckleB]

67. Ah, the laugh of the conspiracy theorist.

As he runs from reality again and again...

[CLANG]

70. You are very naive.

[HuckleB]

75. The naive person can be found in your mirror.

[CLANG]

80. What an inventive comeback!

[slackmaster]

110. John Pike, director of globalsecurity.org: "It's clearly an airplane contrail,"

...But John Pike, a defense expert who is director of GlobalSecurity.org, said he believes he has solved the mystery.

"It's clearly an airplane contrail," Pike said Tuesday afternoon. "It's an optical illusion that looks like it's going up, whereas in reality it's going toward the camera. The tip of the contrail is moving far too slowly to be a rocket. When it's illuminated by the sunset, you can see hundreds of miles of it ... all the way to the horizon.

"Why the government is so badly organized that they can't get somebody out there to explain it and make this story go away. ... I think that's the real story," Pike added. "I mean, it's insane that with all the money we are spending, all these technically competent people, that they can't get somebody out there to explain what is incredibly obvious."

A U.S. Northern Command official who didn't want to be identified said the contrail could very well be from an airplane. An "illusion" effect made the contrail appear as if it's rising straight up, but it's actually level, the official said. The event is similar to another sighting around New Year's Eve in which observers believed they witnessed a missile, he said....

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/11/09/california.contrails/?hpt=C1

[slackmaster]

46. It wasn't flying straight up.

It was flying generally toward the cameras.

[HuckleB]

56. +1

[jberryhill]

126. What makes you think it is going "straight up"

Serious question for you...

Assuming you agree that the earth is round, could you explain what the visual path is of a plane coming over the horizon in your direction?

Thanks.

[XemaSab]

51. Where are the X-Files when you need them?

Man in black: No other object has been misidentified as a flying saucer more often than the planet Venus.
Roky Crikenson: Really?
Man in black: Even the former leader of your United States of America, James Earl Carter Jr., thought he saw a UFO once... But it's been proven he only saw the planet Venus.
Roky Crikenson: I'm a republican.
Man in black: Venus was at its peak brilliance last night. You probably thought you saw something up in the sky other than Venus, but I assure you, it was Venus.
Roky Crikenson: I know... What I saw.
Man in black: Your scientists have yet to discover how neural networks create self-consciousness, let alone how the human brain processes two-dimensional retinal images into the three-dimensional phenomenon known as perception. Yet you somehow brazenly declare seeing is believing? Mister Crikenson, your scientific illiteracy makes me shudder, and I wouldn't flaunt your ignorance by telling anyone that you saw anything last night other than the planet Venus, because if you do, you're a dead man.
Roky Crikenson: You... can't threaten me.
Man in black: I just did.

[DeSwiss]

87. Bullshit.

Which is worse: "Admitting that you've http://www.dvidshub.net/news/58942/no-significant-threat-missile-communication-glitch-officials-say">lost communication with 50 Minuteman III missiles at one time and that you can't explain it?

Or admitting that a missile "got away from you" and you don't know how it happened or who did it?

- What a bunch of dumbasses......

[Democat]

90. What happened to being critical of the media?

Suddenly DUers are sure that the original over-hyped media reports were true. Looks like they were trying to create news where there was none and a bunch of people bought it.

[HuckleB]

97. We're now into "DU The Reality Show," I guess.

[onehandle]

108. I've seen contrails at certain angles and in certain lighting that looked like that.

I saw one last Fall over Atlanta that looked very much like that. I did a double take and pulled over to look at it.

That's what it was.

[Drunken Irishman]

113. IT'S A CONSPIRACY!

THE MISSILE WAS FLYING ELVIS AND KENNEDY BACK TO THE MOON! THEY MADE A VISIT TO EARTH TO MEET WITH OBAMA TO TALK ABOUT THE FORMATION OF THE GALACTIC EMPIRE!

[slackmaster]

114. ALL TRUE, but there is even better news!

They've got a terrific new diet!

[Drunken Irishman]

115. ACAI BERRY?

[SkyDaddy7]

121. PLANE...MY ASS!

[lamp_shade]

135. K&R and thanks for the information, sabra. This should put the issue to bed.

Oh wait...



:shrug:

[SidDithers]

138. K&R...nt

Sid

[sofa king]

141. Ha ha.

This is the "plane"....



...performing the same fuel-burning corkscrew maneuver that the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_High_Altitude_Area_Defense">Terminal High Altitude Area Defense system performs:



THAAD is a thrust-vectored solid rocket. What do you know about that? And the President is visiting India, which is in an arms race with China, and which might have doubts about whether or not THAAD is actually deployed and operational, seeing as it failed numerous tests.

But yeah, it's probably a giant flame-spewing "plane" that is flying on a parabolic path out to sea.

[slackmaster]

142. You have been fooled by a quirk of perspective. Relative motion is hard to judge without a fixed...

...framework against which to measure it.

But yeah, it's probably a giant flame-spewing "plane" that is flying on a parabolic path out to sea.

Watch all of the videos again, and allow for the possibility that the object is headed toward the California coast at a constant speed and altitude.

;-)

[sofa king]

176. Uh huh.

That's no quirk of perspective, that's a rocket. Is anyone surprised that our Department of Defense is lying about it? Does anyone really believe that NORAD, which can track the course of a 13mm nut in orbit around the planet, doesn't know what this is, less than 100 miles off the coast of our largest and most important west coast city?

Are you really prepared to take the word of the United States Department of Defense, which never told you the truth for eight years running?

Edit: I should add that those claiming the vehicle moved too slow to be a missile are guilty of a similar perspective error to that of which I am accused: anyone who has watched a Space Shuttle launch from Titusville knows that once the vehicle is ten or twenty miles downrange, it also appears to move slowly--because the vehicle is moving up and away from the viewer.

[sofa king]

179. And more

[slackmaster]

181. You can't tell jack shit from either of the last two photos you posted

It was an airplane, flying basically straight and level toward the California coast at sub-sonic speed. You've made the same error in interpretation as all of the other Missile People. Try viewing the videos again with your mind open to the possibility that the object is approaching the coast.

[lamp_shade]

188. Missile People

Again....

[sofa king]

190. Whatever, man.

Enjoy the videos of these airplanes, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98D4yz8nY6k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv4id_gK3Mo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yVnTOkoAV8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEYXNR8vYr8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri-xFxjicaQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBIbd1rZDT8

Again, for comparison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AMdHBgHtNE

And here are some real airplane contrails, in time lapse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvdzCq8sP2M

[slackmaster]

191. Yes, those videos confirm that aircraft contrails don't look very much like rocket launch trails.

Monday evening's event was an airplane for sure.

[HuckleB]

195. +1

[slackmaster]

186. It's not the DoD's problem. I don't care what they say about it.

Are you really prepared to take the word of the United States Department of Defense, which never told you the truth for eight years running?

That's about as weak as a pro-missile argument can get, I believe.

[HuckleB]

193. +1

[benh57]

154. Clearly an aircraft.. you can watch one yourself @ 5:30pm each night in LA.

It was US Airways Flight 808. The science is obvious, and you can see very similar trails each night by looking off the coast of Palos Verdes/OC.

http://blog.bahneman.com/content/it-was-us-airways-flight-808

[kestrel91316]

156. Mystery Missile was, in fact, a missile launched from San Nicholas Island.

Warnt no plane, any danged fool can see that.

But it was obviously classified, and possibly a black project, so don't expect anything approaching the truth about it from anyone in the government.

[joshcryer]

160. Why no video?

Am I to believe one of the most highly populated cities on the planet, not one single person looked westward with their cellphone out, to take a video of what could only be one of the most unexpected sights ever seen?

[Devil_Fish]

157. I think it was a weather baloon. NT

[joshcryer]

159. If it was a rocket there would be video. Unless I am to believe that...

..in this information age any and all cell phone and camera videos would simply be wiped from existence via some overarching government conspiracy.

The reason there is no video is simple. The contrail took a half hour or more to form. No one noticed it until it was there. Simple fucking logic.

[Evasporque]

164. Tottally...I get it....The plane was travelling West to East....high altitude.

That makes total sense...when you look at it with that in mind. The glow was actually the sun reflecting off the underside of the plane...not a rocket engine...

[slackmaster]

167. Yes, exactly right. Seeing the Sun's reflection off a plane's wings is not at all unusual.

Especially around sunset on the California coast.

The "missile" people are interpreting the videos all wrongl.

[lamp_shade]

168. missile people

[slackmaster]

169. They're kind of like the sandal people in Monty Python's Life of Brian

:nuke:

[dpbrown]

165. No way was that an airplane

It was going straight up and had a hot red coal at the end.

[Evasporque]

170. imagine it as a plane flying at high altitude tracing the curvature of the earth

And the glow is a reflection...then look again...

it was an optical illusion...even the spiral turbulance is seen in the trail as it expands caused by the drag across the wings...and hot jet engine gases...

[defendandprotect]

194. Planes fly horizontally across the sky --- unless they're making chemtrails....

or, if it's actually a rocket --

[HuckleB]

196. Ah, I knew you'd show up to tell us that it was a rocket to the moon.

:rofl:

[ShamelessHussy]

175. Sure, we've all seen airplanes do that

Not

[slackmaster]

182. Most DUers are too busy watching talking heads on TV around sunset to have seen that

:hide:

[joshcryer]

197. Yep. People don't look up anymore these days.

I've seen this effect dozens of times.

[Octafish]

177. They ARE expert at planes that don't show up on radar. (nt)

[librechik]

178. They're just guessing again

Have they matched the sighting with planes on the area? That would be helpful; very likely there was a flight plan or more, especially if it was a commercial flight.

[slackmaster]

180. I think US Air flight 808 from Honolulu to Phoenix pretty well fits the timing

HTH