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cory777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:32 AM
Original message
4 U.S. Citizens Killed in Separate Attacks in Mexico
Source: Associated Press

CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico – Four U.S. citizens were shot to death in separate attacks in the border city of Ciudad Juarez, Mexican authorities said Monday.

Chihuahua state prosecutors' spokesman Arturo Sandoval said Edgar Lopez, 35, of El Paso, Texas, was killed Sunday along with two Mexican men when gunmen opened fire on a group standing outside a house.

On Saturday, a 26-year-old U.S. woman and an American boy were slain shortly after crossing an international bridge from El Paso. Giovanna Herrera and Luis Araiza, 15, were shot to death along with a Mexican man traveling with them just after 11 a.m., Sandoval said.

Sandoval said authorities also identified a 24-year-old woman killed Friday inside a tortilla shop as Lorena Izaguirre, a U.S. citizen and El Paso resident. A Mexican man was also found dead in the store.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101102/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_drug_war_mexico



UNCENSORED ACTIVIST NEWS http://activistnews.blogspot.com/
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. wtf is going on in Mexico? nt
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Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. American citizens are now being targeted. What is the next step?
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Quit buying drugs?
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Legalize the one that's largely harmless?
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NikRik Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Kick !
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L.Torsalo Donating Member (175 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. It is a civil war.
The Federal Government of Mexico has no clue. The traffickers are using violence to intimidate the population and to drive a wedge between the forces of law and the citizenry.
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Incognitus Czar Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
6. So...
So, are the mexican cartels winning?

Is it inevitable that the cartels will overthrow the government?

I need some drugs to take my mind off of this terrible news event.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. In this fight the Cartels are just taking advantage of the Situation
Something else so going in in Mexico beside the Drug Cartels fighting the Central Mexican Government. It appears, more and more a general revolt against the Central Government and how it is running the Country, and the biggest objections is at the local level NOT the national level (i.e. peasants have seen their income drop do to the massive importation of American Corn since NAFTA was adopted, this leading to massive unrest which the Cartels are taking advantage of).

I compare it to Pancho Villa of the 1910-1920 period. Pancho Villa was an outlaw ever since he killed the man who tried to rape his sister when he was 12 (The man who tried to rape his sister was the owner of the ranch he and his family worked on as peons). Villa survived for the next ten years as a bandito, but the corp around him were never outlaws in the sense they choose to be outlaws, but was forced to become outlaws by how the laws of Mexico was enforced. The central corp around Villa were like him, do to circumstances tied in with the ongoing fight between the Peons and the ruling elite of Mexico, these men and women turned outlaw to survive.

This differs Villa and people like him from the Cartels, who generally choose to be outlaw do to the huge money to be made in drugs. The problem is Cartels do NOT want to kill people, that cost money and makes enemies. Drug Dealers prefer to pay people off. Violence, if it does happen, is between drug dealers over who control want lucrative part of the drug trade. Such Violence was seen in Chicago under Capone, but Capone also had a policy, adopted by most of the underworld NOT to kill innocent bystanders. This was adopted so that the people as a whole did not turn against the mob. Capone knew once the people turned against the mob, he was doomed, but as long as the mob just fought among themselves the people did not really care.

Thus drug dealers, like Capone, do NOT kill third parties, they do NOT do anything that would turn the people against them. Thus the present fighting in Mexico do NOT fit a Drug Dealer/Cartel/Drug Smuggler profile.

One the other hand it fits Villa, a person FORCED to become an outlaw and looking at illegal activities as a way to survive and fight for a better life. The Drug Dealers will pay such people for the same reason they pay the police, to minimize the times these Villa type outlaws raid them for money. A Villa type outlaw is fighting for a place for him or herself and his or her family within society. Thus they are better called Revolutionaries then outlaws. The line between the two is often blurred (and in the case of the drug war in Mexico to Columbia deliberately) but is better understood if you view them as two separate and interrelated activities.

Now Sometime a Revolutionary movement is never quite suppressed, but never takes control. This tends to be the start of long term "Criminal" Agency, like the Mafia of Sicily (and the Provisional Irish Republican Army of Northern Ireland since the 1980s, run today by the people who were the most successful at raising money by smuggling drugs then by the founders of the Provisional Irish Republican Army who started more as an Anti-Protestant/Ruling group of Northern Ireland then a criminal organization).

Now, we have to be careful. Sometime the Criminal element of a Revolutionary movement wins out. Stalin was the bank role of the Communist Party of the Russian Empire. Stalin planned and executed several bank robberies (Including the largest bank robbery ever up till his time, larger banks had been robbed since but he was the first to hit the big time). Stalin was in and out of Jail for his crimes (Stalin either bribe his way out of jail, was released for giving information or "escaped", which is the official reason for Stalin getting out of Jail). Thus Stalin was the center of the Criminal elements of the Communist Party of the Russian Empire. Whenever someone needed money, Stalin was the man who provided it. Stalin's actually work during the Revolution was minimal, Lenin and Trotsky were the two who did the most work for the October Revolution, but once the Communist was in Charge, Stalin's attention to details, his ready access to cash, provided him power within the party the Trotsky could not match. Thus Stalin was the Criminal element within the Communist Party, but he also embraced the concept of Communisms. Trotsky and Stalin disagree on how to achieve Communism, but both agreed that was the way to go.

The point I am trying to make here about Stalin and Trotsky is that there is a huge overlap between the Revolutionary and the Criminal. One can to one or the other, one can be BOTH. Stalin was BOTH. Trotsky was a revolutionary only. The Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) started out as a Revolutionary movement and held on to that concept for 10-20 years (The 1960s and 1970s), but as we entered the 1980s the Criminal elements came to control the movement for like Stalin they had the money. Till the peace accords the Provisional IRA was divided between the Revolutionaries and the Criminal elements. The Former embraced the peace accords, the later rejected them. The Former accepted the peace accord for all that could be achieved via violence had been achieved and peace was needed for the next step. The Criminal elements just saw their lucrative business model collapsing do to a drop in demand for weapons do to the peace accords. Now some revolutionaries also rejected the peace accords and stayed with the Criminal elements (And many, like Stalin, had always been both) but in the long term want remains of the Provisional IRA is like the Mafia, the remains of a Revolutionary movement that survives do to the profits the movement makes do to its control of what had been the source of revenue for the Revolution.

Now, back to Mexico. Unlike the Provisional IRA and the Mafia (Where the Revolution long surpassed), the situation in Mexico is in a pre-revolutionary stage. Being a pre-revolutionary state things are fluid in Mexico right now and the Cartels are under pressure to survive AND to provide cash to any group large enough to demand cash (including revolutionaries AND the Government). Furthermore, since no center for a revolution has yet form, people who are dispossessed do to the NAFTA are willing to work for who ever is willing to pay them, including the Drug Cartel. Thus the Cartel are getting a lot of cheap help, but help that is willing to do what is its best interest NOT the Cartel (i.e. going after the ruling elite of Mexico as oppose to doing what the Cartel wants).

In my opinion what Mexico needs to do given the above is as follows:
1. Abandon NAFTA, get that local Corn prices up so the Peasants stay home. American Corporate Farmers will object to this but it has to be done (American Corporate Farmers main thrust is to dump corn and other excess grain production anywhere including Mexico).
2. NAFTA is preserved for imports from Mexico, so to encourage Mexican manufacturing.
3. Mexican Oil profits more evenly spent throughout the country (Hard, the ruling elite of Mexico wants the money, the recent drop in oil production has lead to the present crisis as the elite still want what they received in total dollars of Mexican Oil, even if that means services to the rest of the Country has to be cut do to the drop in Revenue do to the drop in oil production).
4. Enforce the traditional Mexican law on how many acres any one person can own AND preservation of most of the remaining "Community" land.
5. Restoration of most of the "Community" land that the Government has taken from the Peasants and given to individuals land owners, almost always members of the Mexican elite.

The above Five changes would do the most good for Mexico and stop the upcoming revolution, but it will be resisted like similar reforms were resisted in the 1910-1920 revolution AND after the revolution over the last 100 years. The above will do more good then any reform of the Drug laws. The present criminal activities is more a reflection of the instability of Mexico do to declining Mexican Oil income AND a push to take over even more peasant controlled land. The Urban areas are NOT yet affected (Through hard hit by last years increase in Corn Prices do to American farmers turning to Ethanol instead of exports to Mexico), but the Urban masses are kept quite do to cheap corn prices (Which went up last year, not enough to benefit the peasants of Mexico, but enough to cause increase hardship among the Urban Poor given that other subsidies had been cut and prices of other needed items had gone up).

Mexico is a mess, but the Drug Cartels are just a symptom of that mess not the cause and we have to remember that for if we concentrate to much on the Drug Angle, we will miss what is occurring in Mexico and when Mexico blows up we will apply the wrong medicine to a sick Mexico.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Thank you Slug for a cogent intelligent analysis
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I still maintain that without the phony USAmerican "War on Drugs(tm)"
just as would be the case in Afghanistan's heroin trade financing the Taliban...

One would remove a huge profit center from the equation...

And stop the carnage here at home...the millions unjustly locked up for a public health matter...

So I say, end the phony "war on drugs(tm)" and NAFTA and GATT and WTO...

SLASH the war machine's budget and use the money to repair local economies here and abroad...


But neither right-wing of the Corporate War Party is capable of doing these rational things...
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Drugs have NEVER been the primary source of funds for Revolutions
Since WWII, various Revolutionary/Partisans/Guerrilla groups have used drugs as a financial source, but never as the primary source of Income. The reason for this is simple, any such Revolutionary/Partisans/Guerrilla group need local support and one way to show such local support is to "tax" the people (This is Mao Tse-tung's (sometime printed as Mao Zedong) great achievement in China and later implemented in South Vietnam). No Taxes, no support and either abandon the fight OR abandon the area.

As such drugs are at best a secondary source of income. The classic situation in Northern Ireland, as long as the Provisional IRA had support from the majority of the Catholics in Northern Ireland, the drug deals they were running was a secondary source of income (A ready source of Cash, but a low amount of Income, the two concepts are related but different). As soon as the British long term plan was to integrate the Catholics into Northern Irish Government and Society, support for the Provisional IRA declined. In effect the Provisional IRA won everything they wanted (Except annexation with Ireland) while "losing" the war. Thus by the time a peace treaty was sign, support had been slipping away from the Provisional IRA for about 10 years. The British realized the only thing maintaining the support of Catholics of Northern Ireland for the Provisional IRA was the need for a some sort of formal peace treaty. Such a Peace Treaty was negotiated and accepted by both sides except the radicals (on both sides) AND those elements of the provisional IRA that had become use to the income of the Drug sales.

As to Afghanistan, the Taliban had whipped opiate production to almost Zero just before the US invaded Afghanistan. While a lot of accusations have been made of Taliban sale of drugs (And may be occurring) the only HARD evidence that has emerged has been from the relatives and associates of President Hamid Karzai, the US man in Afghanistan.

This was true in Vietnam, it was the US allies that did the drug trade, the Communist kept attacking the Drug Trade. I have heard FARC of Columbia is associated with the Drug Trade, but again the only hard evidence ties in with AUC, which is allied with the Government of Columbia NOT FARC. Furthermore FARC is in an isolated part of Columbia, while it is possible for the FARC to smuggle the drugs out of Columbia via Brazil or Venezuela, the Drug Smuggling tends to come from Columbia itself and then from areas when the AUC (now outlaw, but its successors are still n control) ad control.

All of this points to people working NOT with any Revolutionary/Partisans/Guerrilla, but taking advantage of a war situation to make a nice profit for themselves. The same seems to be the case with Mexico, Mexico is having internal problems that the Drug Dealers are exploiting for their own gain. The legally or illegality of drugs is at best, a minor concern. The big concern is keeping the peasants in line, and that is much harder to do and the War on Drugs is being used as an excuse to suppress the peasants NOT to fight any war on the Drug Dealers.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. My point is that the killing in Mexico
that the right-wing crazies here in Arizona are using as a springboard for electing neo-nazis to state offices...

is being financed by the phony "War on Drugs(tm)"...

If USAmerica decriminalized, allowed drug prices to drop down to the pennies on the dollar they should be and used the money wasted on the phony war's cops, courts, lawyers, jail and prison cells for treatment on demand and amelioration of the poverty and hopelessness among the young, the main drivers of "drug abuse",

we'd all be better off...

As for Mexico; isn't this just the resurgence of the Revolution that was co-opted by the oligarchy down there after 1920 (with USAmerican help)?

None of the agrarian reform, etc. of the Revolution were actually realized by the population...
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