Gen. Hugh Shelton: Bush Officials Pushed For Iraq War 'Almost To The Point Of Insubordination'

[kpete]

Source: Huffington Post

Gen. Hugh Shelton: Bush Officials Pushed For Iraq War 'Almost To The Point Of Insubordination'

Former Joint Chiefs chairman Gen. Hugh Shelton says that, during the Bush administration, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, his deputy, Paul Wolfowitz, and other Pentagon officials pushed to go to war with Iraq "almost to the point of insubordination."

"There was a very strong push in those days for us to go into Iraq, and there was absolutely no intelligence, zero, that pointed toward the Iraqis.," he told Christiane Amanpour on ABC's 'This Week' on Sunday. "It was all Al Qaida, Osama bin Laden. And yet there was an element there that was -- that was pushing to go into Iraq at the same time."

George Bush was focused on Afghanistan and initially resisted the pressure to invade Iraq, Shelton says. But he was eventually convinced.

"Afghanistan, remember, was going very, very well," Shelton said. "The drumbeat back here in Washington was still pushing, coming out of the Pentagon, let's go to Iraq, let's get -- take him out. And he finally said, let's go."

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/24/hugh-shelton-iraq-war-bush_n_773038.html

[ixion]

1. Indeed. Something we all knew. Bring on the prosecution.

It is long overdue.

[valerief]

74. They'll prosecute -- after all the guilty parties are dead. That's how things are done

in a hypocracy (that's a state where one thing is said but the exact opposite is done).

[happygoluckytoyou]

113. EXACTLY.... i'll go alert the media....

[mediaman007]

2. Much to the dismay of many American and Iraqis families.

[ProSense]

3. Wow!

So Bush didn't want to go to war, he just caved to Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz?

War crimes were committed, and it would be great to see Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz served up first.

[Raster]

6. Bush* was not a member of the PNAC or a signatory to their various "America is new Rome" manifestos.

He was not a true believer. Just the glorified village idiot with the correct pedigree and last name. I don't believe Bush* comprehended half of what transpired around him. I really don't.

[glitch]

11. Ah the incompetence defense.

Good that they're bringing that out, they must think they may need it.
FWIW, Jeb, the "smarter" younger brother, did sign PNAC.

[Raster]

16. Oh yes. Jeb was/is a card carrying PNAC believer.

I believe that in addition to the name and the pedigree, the most important thing Bush* brought to the table was the "alibi-in-the-box" as national village idiot.

I hope the war criminal bastards are shitting blood scared. They deserve to be.

[glitch]

19. "alibi-in-the-box" as national village idiot

:spray:

[pocoloco]

73. Scared?

Didn't Pelosi taking impeachment off the table sink in?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2382566

[Raster]

93. This is the "money quote" from that thread:

"That’s part of the whole beltway mystique--is that they protect their own and parties mean very, very little. They’re all denizens in the same city and it’s about power. And principle has very little role in the city and I hate to say that and it may seem cynical but these are not principled people in this city and many of them are really bad people. Not all of them, but many of them are bad people. They don’t really believe in principle. They believe in power and once they get power I don’t think they’re going to be pursuing principle."

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

There may be two political parties in Washington, DC, but they both feed from the same trough and from the same hands.

[stevenleser]

120. Yeah, I don't buy stuff like that. It sounds exciting, but I doubt it's true. n/t

[lark]

121. That's how they get away with it

They do things that are so heinous they know most people would never believe them capable of such atrocities, and so the atrocities continue.

[stevenleser]

123. The problem is, most ridiculous conspiracy theories are sold just like this...

there is zero evidence for it, just an emotional appeal to what sounds exciting.

[Ticonderoga]

26. Sure looks like he did to me.

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/pnac_neo-con_artists.html

[ProSense]

12. Bush was definitely a puppet, but

I don't buy into the notion that he was completely innocent and unwilling to go along. He likely wanted guarantees of cover.

Seriously, launching an illegal war isn't something one does on a dare.

[Raster]

17. Very true. I don't think he was completely innocent, but certainly mentally "deficient."

His handlers had him so hopped up on religion and mercilessly manipulated his mommy/daddy issues. Seriously, George W. Bush* is not a well man. He was a binging "dry drunk" the entire time he was pResident.

[No Elephants]

56. And at times probably not so dry, either.

[No Elephants]

58. +1 Before he was President, he spoke approvingly of invading a small nation, like Iraq.

[clarence swinney]

106. WAR

To Biographer on tape

"I can be a successful president only if I have a War."

He concluded all successful ones had a War.

Is that an informed brain?

[cartach]

21. But Jeb Bush was !

The Bushes all had their separate jobs to do and they did them well. George W. was the family drunk and doper and they still found one for him as President.And you have to give him credit for following orders and doing exactly what he was ordered and/or manipulated to do.

[Raster]

36. And that is exactly what happened.

[ProudDad]

34. And I don't think he had a clue about the other 1/2 either!

but he sure enjoyed being "pampered"...

I wonder if he and vitter had slumber parties in the Lincoln bedroom... :shrug:

[Raster]

39. If he had "slumber parties" with anyone, it was probably James Bath

He and ol' Dubya had all kinds of shared interests and circumstances, including a fondness for black prostitutes, three-ways and nose candy.

[BlueMTexpat]

52. I don't believe that it was too difficult to "convince" Bush to go

after Saddam. But it is one thing that his father had enough sense not to do.

Cheney & Co. had simply been biding their time since Gulf War I.

[olegramps]

55. His brother Jeb was PNAC neo-con.

Bush was nothing more than a stupid little puppet who they could manipulate at will. His administration was dominated by PNAC neo-cons. The Fourth Estate totally failed the citizens. It is a useless toll of the corporate propagandists.

[Capitalocracy]

80. Now here's a downer

If Bush's administration was staffed by PNAC, and look what happened there, imagine what will happen now that the White House has become Goldman Sachs's secondary headquarters.

[No Elephants]

60. Not a PNAC signatory but filled his administration with PNAC signatories.

In light of his living the PNAC memo, his failure to sign it doesn't seem all that significant to me.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

128. well once he caved, he did it with the gusto of the newly converted.

He cheer-led like a true believer. x(

[molly77]

66. Wonder why the peace protests were not in the news.

Yet any little gathering of tea partiers makes the local, state and mainstream news? Could it be that we are fascist already? No more talk of fascism rapidly approaching. It is here. i.e. no war criminals have gone to jail.

[Capitalocracy]

78. Did we ever truly recover

from the 2000 military/industrial judicial coup?

[Raster]

94. No. We have not. And in all honesty, we may never recover.

The cheney*/bush* junta WAS going into office in 2000, even if they had to lie, cheat and steal to do so, which they did. The time was right, the groundwork was laid and the corporate/military/intelligence mandarins had decreed it. The Petroleum Mafia, who had financed it, had decreed it. Albert Gore could have lawfully and legally won by a three-to-one margin, and he still would not have been allowed his inauguration. And because all the dirty electoral tricks, including voter suppression, voter caging, voter intimidation AND controlling the corrupt electronic electoral infrastructure could not quite bring home the bacon, the last Ace was laid on the table: a brutally-partisan and utterly corrupt Supreme Court of the United States.

[Capitalocracy]

76. Doesn't absolve his responsibility.

If only there was justice. Then Rummy and Wolfowitz would have plenty of time to try and convince Dubya that this was still a good idea in their shared prison cell.

[jobycom]

124. That's not what Paul O'Neal said.

Paul O'Neil in his book claimed Bush wanted the war from the time he was elected, and that on September 12th was already talking about ways to sway the public to support an invasion by blaming the attacks on Iraq. I can see Bush pretending his hands were clean in front of General Shelton, maybe, and pretending a hesitancy he didn't feel, but the evidence is that Bush wanted the invasion from at least the time he took office. That's why he surrounded himself with people who had been calling for a war against Iraq. Not that Bush had a choice--most presidents choose their advisers, but Bush's advisers chose him. They were a group of business people and militant foreign policy hacks who fronted Bush as the most likely to be electable with their funding, and still likely to listen to them once in office. They were counting on his stupidity, and were rewarded handsomely.

http://articles.cnn.com/2004-01-10/politics/oneill.bush_1_roomful-of-deaf-people-education-of-paul-o-neill-national-security-council-meeting?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/09/60minutes/main592330.shtml

[CLANG]

127. Bush was a hapless puppet. He had no clue. Shit for brains Prezeldent

[indepat]

4. Thank God the "almost to the point of insubordination" threshold was never

crossed and all's well that ends well or is it no harm, no foul? ;)

[femrap]

7. And today's warfare

ends up with two-thirds of those murdered are civilians. Oops. It's disgusting. I remember well the 'shock and awe.' And weren't all of the dudes in the planes that took down WTC, Pentagon, field in PA Saudi Arabians?????

Why attack Iraq....this shows how stupid the people of america are. Too busy watching pron or too busy working 2 or 3 jobs. And no draft so the rich little boyz can't make a stink.

It's all ending very badly.

[Raster]

10. 15 Saudis. 3 or 4 Egyptians. No Iraqis.

Iraq had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with 9/11, Al Que-da or Bin Laden. Nothing. They just happened to have the very bad fortune of inhabiting the same real estate that some very wealthy men and corporations coveted. They also had the misfortune of having Saddam Hussein as a national leader, who was the favorite NeoCon/Republicon Middle East whipping boy.

[femrap]

103. Isn't it amazing that

now that Neo/Righties have huge control over the MSM that people can be lead to believe that Iraq was responsible for 9/ll.

It's so damn scary to realize that we are surrounded by some the stupidest people on the planet. TPTB love to be in control...they like that better than their money, I think.

[indepat]

13. Wasn't it reportedly only 15 of the 19, certainly not enough to draw any definite conclusions?

:shrug:

[Raster]

18. 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi nationals.

[tularetom]

5. Bush wasn't "convinced" - he was beaten into submission

by the people his daddy had hired to keep him under control.

I don't think it really mattered to cheney, rumsfeld and pals what bush thought, they were going to do what they were going to do whether he agreed or not, I mean, it was nice to get him to go along with it, because a few people in the country were naive enough to believe he actually was in charge, but they sure as hell didn't need any input from him.

His job was to go out and pimp the war to the dumbass demographic in America. And with a big assist from our liberal media he succeeded.

[Raster]

8. I agree. Bush* had so many hands up his backside he could have been a Muppet.

[proReality]

25. No

Muppets are cute and fluffy. * was never cute or fluffy...just fuzzy.

[boppers]

42. That's demeaning to Muppets.

Not cool.

[defendandprotect]

9. Good to see this all getting on the record . . .

Re this ....

George Bush was focused on Afghanistan and initially resisted the pressure to invade Iraq, Shelton says. But he was eventually convinced.

And then George spoke with "god" for the second time and "god" told him to attack Iraq!!


:eyes:


Also interesting to see the confirmation that the neither did the intelligence show any need

for attacking Iraq -- of course!!

And that is despite Cheney's trying to force CIA intellience experts into changing info and

helping him create a reason to attack Iraq!

[JDPriestly]

35. Remember how Cheney has his own team at the CIA

and how he visited the CIA frequently?

So, no Al Qaeda and no WMDs. And Saddam's torture has continued -- under the new ownership.

Now, again, why was it that we had to go into Iraq?

[dgibby]

85. Oil.

Saddam was manipulating oil prices, wouldn't play ball with OPEC.

[Raster]

95. Saddam, besides being the usual and convenient Middle East whipping boy,

...was starting to make the Petroleum Mafia very nervous. Two things were accomplished by taking Saddam out: (1) all that lovely Iraqi oil is now controlled by the private petroleum sector; and (2) a warning was sent to other despots or nations that would fuck with the Petroleum Mafia.

[Lasher]

14. And Junior's biggest regret is being unsuccessful at privatizing Social Security.

I remember that time he was asked what his biggest mistake was. He couldn't say because he couldn't remember a single one.

[Submariner]

15. HIGH TREASON by the BUSH/CHENEY Junta

PUNKS, DRAFT DODGERS, COWARDS, TRAITORS, and plain old fashioned F'ING A**HOLES....the both of them, and their whole f'ing administration.

I hope Cheney croaks from a painfully bleeding rectum while his mechanical heart short circuits to his peanut brain. He should get a fitting burial in a Newark landfill, other than that, I hope he enjoys the rest of his putrid life knowing he can't enjoy his millions from his war profiteering earnings. I hate those two pieces of excrement. I never knew hate until those cockroaches stole the 2000 election, and I don't like the feeling.

[UpInArms]

20. "Fuck Saddam, We're taking him out"

Fuck Saddam, We're taking him out

"F___ Saddam. we're taking him out." Those were the words of President George W. Bush, who had poked his head into the office of National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice.

It was March 2002, and Rice was meeting with three U.S. Senators, discussing how to deal with Iraq through the United Nations, or perhaps in a coalition with America's Middle East allies. Bush wasn't interested. He waved his hand dismissively, recalls a participant, and neatly summed up his Iraq policy in that short phrase.

The Senators laughed uncomfortably; Rice flashed a knowing smile. The President left the room. A year later, Bush's outburst has been translated into action, as cruise missiles and smart bombs slam into Baghdad.

But the apparent simplicity of his message belies the gravity at hand. Sure, the outcome is certain: America will win the war, and Saddam will be taken out. But what is unfolding in Iraq is far bigger than regime change or even the elimination of dangerous weapons.

The U.S. has launched a war unlike any it has fought in the past. This one is being waged not to defend against an enemy that has attacked the U.S. or its interests but to pre-empt the possibility that one day it might do so. The war has turned much of the world against America. Even in countries that have joined the "coalition of the willing," big majorities view it as the impetuous action of a superpower led by a bully. This divide threatens to emasculate a United Nations that failed to channel a diplomatic settlement or brand the war as legitimate.

[ronnie624]

112. This part, of course, is utter nonsense:

The U.S. has launched a war unlike any it has fought in the past. This one is being waged not to defend against an enemy that has attacked the U.S. or its interests but to pre-empt the possibility that one day it might do so.

The U.S. government has attacked many countries that could have never dreamt of attacking "U.S. interests". Evan articles found in the U.S. mainstream press that are critical of government policies must remain within an established framework for political debate.

[Ticonderoga]

22. About 10 years too late

Don't you think Hugh? You must have known this back then, so why are you waiting until now? Wiki got the goods on you or something?

[Ticonderoga]

23. This unfortunately

is nothing but lipservice for Obama is "Looking Forward". And that's precisely why he'll never get a vote from me again.

[dgibby]

88. "Looking forward" is what got us into this mess in the first place.

Had Ford not pardoned Nixon, Cheney and Rumsfield might never have been in the position to drive policy in the Bush Admin. As a result, our "long national nightmare" wasn't over, it was just getting started.

[Raster]

97. cheney* and rumsferatu* slithered forth from the same nest of vipers

that surrounded Nixon. You are absolutely correct. Jerry Ford was hand-picked to mitigate Nixon's crimes and sweep the mess under the table.

[DuckBurp]

24. Yet, impeachment was off the table.

Right, Nancy?

[dflprincess]

27. And we must look forward and not worry about what happened in the past

:sarcasm:

[shanti2]

82. If Grayson had been House Leader-

he definately would have tried to impeach them both.

[paulk]

28. bfd

is a war really "illegal" if no one ever prosecutes?

does the court of public opinion mean anything in these days of a corporate controlled press?


unless someone shows the courage to take these criminals to court it's all just pissin' in the wind, folks

[creeksneakers2]

29. I don't buy it

Bush was into from the beginning and was willing to stoop to any level to get his war started.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

45. I concur.

[arikara]

114. Sure he was, after all didn't Saddam

try to kill his daddy?

[Citizen Worker]

30. I'm not convinced. Remember Paul O'Neill, Bush's first treasury secretary, said in his book that in

first cabinet meeting in January 2001 the new administration were looking for a rationale to invade and occupy Iraq. And then there's Cheney's energy task force made up of oil company executives who covet the oil resources in Iraq. So, is general Shelton providing cover for Bush? Me thinks so.

[Lasher]

44. I agree with you.

And remember this:

(Richard) Clarke charged that before and during the 9/11 crisis, many in the administration were distracted from efforts against Osama bin Laden's Al-Qaeda organization by a pre-occupation with Iraq and Saddam Hussein. Clarke had written that on September 12, 2001, President Bush pulled him and a couple of aides aside and "testily" asked him to try to find evidence that Saddam was connected to the terrorist attacks. In response he wrote a report stating there was no evidence of Iraqi involvement and got it signed by all relevant agencies, including the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the CIA. The paper was quickly returned by a deputy with a note saying "Please update and resubmit". After initially denying that such a meeting between the President and Clarke took place, the White House later reversed its denial when others present backed Clarke's version of the events.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Clarke

Junior was not a card-carrying member of PNAC like several in his administration, but neither was he the reluctant patsy Shelton is trying to make him out to be. He wanted the war in Iraq from the beginning.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

46. Not just Paul O'Neil, remember Richard Clark book came out first and stated that on Sept.12 Bush

demanded that Clark find a connection to Saddam. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/19/60minutes/main607356.shtml

<snip>

"Rumsfeld was saying that we needed to bomb Iraq," Clarke said to Stahl. "And we all said ... no, no. Al-Qaeda is in Afghanistan. We need to bomb Afghanistan. And Rumsfeld said there aren't any good targets in Afghanistan. And there are lots of good targets in Iraq. I said, 'Well, there are lots of good targets in lots of places, but Iraq had nothing to do with it.

"Initially, I thought when he said, 'There aren't enough targets in-- in Afghanistan,' I thought he was joking.

"I think they wanted to believe that there was a connection, but the CIA was sitting there, the FBI was sitting there, I was sitting there saying we've looked at this issue for years. For years we've looked and there's just no connection."

Clarke says he and CIA Director George Tenet told that to Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, and Attorney General John Ashcroft.

Clarke then tells Stahl of being pressured by Mr. Bush.

"The president dragged me into a room with a couple of other people, shut the door, and said, 'I want you to find whether Iraq did this.' Now he never said, 'Make it up.' But the entire conversation left me in absolutely no doubt that George Bush wanted me to come back with a report that said Iraq did this.

"I said, 'Mr. President. We've done this before. We have been looking at this. We looked at it with an open mind. There's no connection.'

"He came back at me and said, "Iraq! Saddam! Find out if there's a connection.' And in a very intimidating way. I mean that we should come back with that answer. We wrote a report."

<end snip>

I have to dust off my copy of Clarke's book "Against All Enemies" now.

[Enthusiast]

48. I'm more inclined to go with

your explanation. They just want to tidy up Georgie's place in history.

[BlueMTexpat]

53. Absolutely. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

98. Agree. n/t

[donquijoterocket]

115. pretty damned thin

cover if you ask me.It might be some sort of half-assed attempt at that but would at the same time blow any myth of the shrub as determined, forceful leader right into the weeds.Of course the only folks who still might believe that are full-blown true believe bushistas and there's no reaching them.

[countrydad58]

118. whitewash mode

another Lackey trying to white wash Bush & his crimes, So another Bush Criminal can soil the White house.

[Jefferson23]

31. Traitors, almost every single one of them. n/t

[Initech]

32. This is treason.

[Enthusiast]

49. Nothing but....nt

[young_at_heart]

33. "let's go to Iraq"----where, oh where is the outrage??

The list just keep growing and growing. Someone in power needs to care!

[WCGreen]

37. This does nothing to anything...

No one in any position of power is going to ever do anything to anyone associated to this war.

All these revelations are just rubbing salt into the wounds of us who knew what was happening when it was happening and too whom it happened.

The media won't cover it because they were co-conspirators in the whole run up to the war.

Face it, we live in a country that sweats the easy stuff, the stuff that idiots can wrap their fucking heads around and forgive all the transgressions against humanity that occur on an almost daily basis.

Nothing we can do, no matter how loud and long we scream will ever see any off these criminals behind bars.

Nothing.

And they about to get more power in order to finish the fucking job, melding corporate, religion and civic power in the hands of power craving ideologes who only want it all.

Fuck 'em...

[boppers]

43. Was Clinton ever prosecuted over Iraq?

Was JFK ever prosecuted over the Bay of Pigs or Vietnam?

We have a long tradition going on here....

[No Elephants]

71. Apples and oranges but even if that were not so, past wrongs do not excuse subsequent wrongs.

[louis-t]

101. Clinton was enforcing the no-fly zones that were ....

terms of first Gulf war. JFK was convinced by the hawks at the Pentagon in his first months in office to invade Cuba and later asked Bobby "how could I have been so stupid?" Stupidface has no regrets, no understanding of what he allowed. I think they convinced him that the 'cool kids' knew something he didn't know. He went along because he didn't want to seem like he was unaware of the 'common wisdom' that Saddam HAD to be taken out.

[boppers]

129. How many US presidents have been prosecuted for crimes?

Perhaps the simpler question.

[lobodons]

38. Issa will look into this

Issa will look into this when he gets subpoena powers, right..?? It is National Security related?? That is one of their babies isn't it..??

[Raster]

40. Yours is one of the few posts where absolutely no "sarcasm" tag is necessary.

Issa is a tool and a fool, and a vile rethuglican through-and-through.

[Daphne08]

57. +10000

[The_Casual_Observer]

41. This is all going to look even worse when the "government" in Iraq

falls apart.

[Honeycombe8]

47. This is not news. Richard Clarke spoke out about this early on, & wrote a book.

He had been in a former Republican cabinet, as well as in Clinton's. He was kept on in Bush's. He was the terrorism/Al Qaeda expert or something. He reported that he was in the room in a meeting soon after 9/11. It was clear that Rummy and Cheney and others were going to go after Iraq, right from teh start. He said that they had wanted to do that from Day One, and 911 was just an excuse. They were still made at Papa Bush for not "finishing the job" during Operation Desert Storm. Prez Bush, who had "junior" issues about besting papa, didn't need much convincing.

Prez Bush was a tool (fool?) in Cheney's experienced hands. Something I think Bush realizes now, I would think.

But the point is that this isn't really news. We've all known this since years before the end of the Bush administration. It's a new version, with different people, but it's the same story.

As far as being prosecuted, as some posters say they want, I don't see anything that was reported as being done that was illegal. "Pushing" or trying to persuade someone to go to war isn't a crime, I think.

[Enthusiast]

50. But they used intelligence

that was manufactured as justification. They just did.

[Drops_not_Dope]

51. This is complete Bullshit

and an attempt, probably at the direction of the current White House, to absolve then President Bush of absolute responsibility. Consider the implication of War Crimes.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB326/index.htm

National security staff met at the White House on September 12 and, despite the CIA’s determination “that al Qaeda was guilty of the attacks,” Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz again argued for attacking Iraq. (Wolfowitz thought that a state sponsor had to be involved; Rumsfeld said that Iraq had better targets than Afghanistan.) Bush endorsed the strategy of overthrowing Iraq’s government. According to Richard Clarke, when he told Bush that al-Qaeda was definitely responsible and that past efforts had not found any real evidence connecting it with Iraq, Bush seemed irritated, (Note 17) and at a September 13 NSC meeting Bush asked again that the CIA look for possible Iraqi involvement. At that meeting Rumsfeld said that attacking Iraq “could inflict…costly damage” and make terrorist-supporting regimes think twice about confronting the U.S. Bush told the Pentagon to give him plans and a cost estimate for an Iraq war. (Note 18) Clarke began a special project to look again for a link between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden. (Note 19)


At a September 17 NSC meeting Bush again directed that contingency plans for attacking Iraq be prepared, including a plan to seize its oilfields. He reportedly signed a top secret order directing the Pentagon to begin planning for war with Afghanistan -- and an invasion of Iraq. (Note 20)

[indimuse]

54. KNR! n/t

[olegramps]

59. The Republicans could attempt to impeach Clinton for a BJ, but the Dems refuse to for treason.

All of this has been well known for years and the leadership refuses to act. This nation has gone down the crapper and its future very much in doubt.

[SkyDaddy7]

61. PROOF that Bible Verses work on the weak minded...

Rumsfeld & Cheney knew what they were working with or actually controlling like a puppet & they made the best of it!

It just sickens me that these people & worse will be running the country again in two years unless something happens to wake the public up...Yeah right this is America where willful ignorance is a badge of honor!

[Raster]

65. The "extra special" and sanitized "eyes only" briefings that Dubya would get usually had

the bible verse of the day picked out by ol' Rumsferatu itself, usually with a clip-art pic of some soldier wielding a gun. No shit.

[colorado_ufo]

107. I remember that being reported.

[No Elephants]

62. Fuck Shelton for his silence until now and for his part in the Bush Legacy Project,.

[Scurrilous]

63. K & R

:thumbsup:

[RoccoR5955]

64. Bring on the war crimes tribunal! n/t

[Hubert Flottz]

67. George got with the program after his friends Jack and Jim came

to the Pig Ranch...Jack Daniel and Jim Beam.

"Don't look back." Tell that to Karl and Rush and Glenn as they look back over Obama's past two years at the daily Obama Crucifixions on the corporate propaganda nutworks.

Here's a song the crew in the whitehouse need to listen to...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_ZBqpEUbik

[hobbit709]

68. And how many of those generals had the integrity and courage to resign in protest?

[Hubert Flottz]

69. This is "Hugh"

[colorado_ufo]

108. Sort of.

It doesn't matter if Bush was convinced late or wanted Iraq from the start. "Almost insubordination" doesn't cut it. Bush had the title of President, and he had the responsibility to stop it.

[creon]

70. Aggressive war

There were no WMB. It is immaterial to me whether or not they believed there were. Those people were either liars or fools. I do not need to know which.
It was a war of aggression. Pepetrated with premeditation and malice aforethought.

[unblock]

72. i find it VERY difficult to believe that shrub had to be sold on going after saddam

i've long been convinced that poppy's stopping short of baghdad was THE REASON shrub sobered up his image and set on a course to become president. i think his black-and-white worldview forced him to think that his mission in life was to complete the job his father failed at.

in fact, i'm pretty sure there were some noises immediately about iraq, only to be drowned out by the overwhelming push that the reality was that the attacks came from afghanistan.

i think shrub would have leapt at the opportunity to go for iraq. i think he was told he needed to cool his jets until after afghanistan was well under way.

[BarryMeNot]

75. K&R

:kick:

[Courtesy Flush]

77. I got distracted by the sidebar on Lady Ga Ga.

War? When was that?

[disndat]

79. It's amazing that

if you believe in the 9/11 'conspiracy theory' that the Iraq War was planned long before Bush II come into office. They had all their ducks lined up in a row by the time the '00 election was stolen in Florida with the Supreme Court decision, setting the grand plan of the U.S.'s takeover of the Mideast in motion.

[Roy Rolling]

81. Disconnect

So here is the disconnect: knowledge IS NOT POWER. If I hear that moronic phrase one more time I will, well, I'll do something eqully moronic. This is not news---haven't people known for nearly 10 years the the drumbeat for war was a sham? A mockery? A mockery of a sham? But enough of the "Bananas" references. Similarly, there is ample scientific knowledge that global warming is a fact, yet the power-brokers have the keys to the car and are driving the country off a cliff, with a big sign on the side of the car saying "climate change is a hoax." I do not have the answer, but simply being aware of an issue can do two things: make it better if people WANT TO DO BETTER or make the issue worse if PEOPLE WANT TO CONTINUE as they are. So as well-meaning sheep are herded off the cliff, there must be something that can change the direction of the sheep to defy the ignorance of the shepherd leading them to destruction. So back to the point, the Iraq war is a well-known travesty....what are YOU gonna do about it?

[Exultant Democracy]

83. How can the civilian administration that is in chrge the military be insubordinate?

Obviously I don't support the Iraq war, but this just doesn't make sense to me.

[The Backlash Cometh]

84. I would say this wikileaks thing has opened the discourse on this matter.

Finally.

[The Uncola]

86. Not exactly a news flash.

Nor have we ended the illegal occupation as of yet.

[global1]

87. Another Feeble Attempt To Change History And Glorify GWB.....nt

[snappyturtle]

89. K&R I haven't read the replies.....wonder how many here feel

as I do. I believe it is this release of information that should bring all the bush cabal criminals to justice....trial.

[clarence swinney]

105. Absolutely

HAGUE em

[activa8tr]

90. Those people need to go to prison for life, IMO. What are they doing...

getting pensions paid for by taxpayers?

[TacticalPeek]

91. "Afghanistan, remember, was going very, very well" - - - What you smoking, Hugh?

How is letting Osama bin Laden, Mullah Omar, Zawahiri and their buds escape to a safe haven where they thumb their nose at Uncle Sam "going very, very well"?

Oh, right - it depends on your point of view.

[felix_numinous]

92. Gen. Westley Clark

saw the Pentagon plan to take down five countries in seven years, 10 days after 911. No matter who hatched this plan, Bush crimes started with the stolen election, and went on from there. Patriot act was an enormous document and was written before 911.

This country is not a land of laws but a land of crimes as long as the Bush cabal are free. They started a climate of corruption and a long line of criminals that lead up to this day, and the longer this trial is put off, the more they will multiply!!!

Down With Corruption!!!

[Raster]

96. The Patriot Act WAS basically written before 9/11. All they needed was just a good excuse.

"the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event -- like a new Pearl Harbor."

[disndat]

126. November 2 will tell

which side of the fork in the road the country is going to take. One side, the Tea Party, a.k.a. Koch Bros., the other side is a boost for Obama to thumb his nose at the Repugs. No more Mr. Nice Guy, Pleez

[Life Long Dem]

99. I think a day will come for their day in court.

During Obama's second term. Then we'll watch the media go nut's.

[Blue Owl]

100. Optional bankruptcy

n/t

[Evasporque]

102. I can see Dick Cheney hunched over the printer....

Printing out a bogus letter on forged Niger Government letterhead...

Something about yellowcake.

[clarence swinney]

104. fantastic

this is best subject postings I have read

Fabulous. Makes me feel so good I could spit.

I was unaware that so many knew so much about PNAC

MSM pled innocent!

DNC pled dumb!

One of if not Worst decision in our history

History books will cover in finite details

HAGUE INTERNATIONAL CRIMES TRIBUNAL

If any other nation.
olduglymeanhonest mad mad mad

[colorado_ufo]

109. Many of us know

and carry the pain of this daily.

[USA_1]

110. Bush Treason

Too bad Pelosi said impeachment was off the table. She and the Dems wiped Bush's ass when they could have thrown him in jail for treason and ended the Republican reign of terror in Washington, DC.

It's all a matter of choice.

[tuckessee]

111. How can the civilian gov't be "insubordinate" to the military?

We don't live under martial law.

Doesn't General Shelton know that he works for the civilian government and not the other way around?.

[florida08]

116. I would agree

that George was convinced that God wanted him to be the one to remake the ME. The neocons used and manipulated that lie for their purpose of spreading an empirical hold. When Cheney was approached by Bush II to help him find a VP Cheney said he already had. Himself. Cheney imo was the president..Bush was the patsy in denial. Two men..same goal..different reasons. By the end of their dictatorship we heard that George and Dick were not exactly friendly. George didn't pardon Libby. George knew how he'd been played and his legacy was in shreds. He had shamed the family name.

The Wolfowitz plan that he tried to impose on Clinton that went nowhere was now coming to fruition under the Cheney/Rumsfeld empire.
The Blueprint for US Hegemony was 'preemption'. The plan included Iraq, Iran and Syria. It's not over.

You hear Bolton today pushing for attacking Iran. The reason this article is important is it's an attempt 'pardon' George. To clean up the Bush name. I see another coup d'état attempt from the right to pave the way for the last Bush or someone like him. Slander Obama at every turn..as they did with Clinton. Make the country sorry they ever elected a democrat. And the country will do it just to shut them up. Privatize everything to marginalize capital going down. Keep profits going up to fund the next phase.

Fund the tea people whose ignorance on the issues can be seen as a grass roots movement to exploit and facilitate. What is the Tea Party’s real agenda? Divide working class at a time of economic crisis. Marginalize the voices of democracy.

Wall Street funneled trillions of dollars into private coffers..no accident. No accountability. The meme is important. We hear Iran can't have nuclear weapons. The Koch brothers memo has been leaked by George Soros at Think Progress on the plan to roll back Obama's mildly progressive reforms. http://climateprogress.org/2010/10/20/koch-big-oil-chamber-glenn-beck-plot-2010-election/ It's going to get a lot uglier between now and 2012. They will find or invent something on Obama/Biden/Clinton and that will be the drumbeat after November elections.

[Divine Discontent]

117. whether the other countries who have orders issued to arrest them get them or not, shouldn't Iraq be

having their courts try them and issue a request to the US for our govt to send them over?

that'd be justice.

[bvar22]

119. Many of us at DU saw through the bullshit.

So did THESE Democrats who STOOD UP AND SAID NO the the insanity:

The Democratic Party Honor Roll
These Democrats should be remembered for their principled stand against the rush to bullshit WAR..

The Authorization to Use Force in Iraq

United States Senate

In the Senate, the 21 Democrats, one Republican and one Independent courageously voted their consciences in 2002 against the War in Iraq :

Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii)
Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico)
Barbara Boxer (D-California)
Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia)
Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota)
Jon Corzine (D-New Jersey)
Mark Dayton (D-Minnesota)
Dick Durbin (D-Illinois)
Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin)
Bob Graham (D-Florida)
Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)
Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont)
Ted Kennedy (D-Massachusetts)
Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
Carl Levin (D-Michigan)
Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland)
Patty Murray (D-Washington)
Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island)
Paul Sarbanes (D-Maryland)
Debbie Stabenow (D-Michigan)
The late Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota)
Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)

Lincoln Chaffee (R-Rhode Island)


United States House of Representatives

Six House Republicans and one independent joined 126 Democratic members of the House of Represenatives:

Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii)
Tom Allen (D-Maine)
Joe Baca (D-California)
Brian Baird (D-Washington DC)
John Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine)
Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)
Xavier Becerra (D-California)
Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon)
David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office)
Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania)
Corinne Brown (D-Florida)
Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
Lois Capps (D-California)
Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts)
Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland)
Julia Carson (D-Indiana)
William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri)
Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office)
James Clyburn (D-South Carolina)
Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office)
John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan)
Jerry Costello (D-Illinois)
William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office)
Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
Susan Davis (D-California)
Danny Davis (D-Illinois)
Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon)
Diana DeGette (D-Colorado)
Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts)
Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut)
John Dingell (D-Michigan)
Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas)
Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania)
Anna Eshoo (D-California)
Lane Evans (D-Illinois)
Sam Farr (D-California)
Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania)
Bob Filner (D-California)
Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts)
Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas)
Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
Alice Hastings (D-Florida)
Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office)
Maurice Hinchey (D-New York)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas)
Rush Holt (D-New Jersey)
Mike Honda (D-California)
Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon)
Inslee
Jackson (Il.)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E.B.
Jones (OH)
Kaptur
Kildee
Kilpatrick
Kleczka
Kucinich
LaFalce
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lipinski
Lofgren
Maloney (CT)
Matsui
McCarthy (MO)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Menendez
Millender-McDonald
Miller
Mollohan
Moran (Va)
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pastor
Payne
Pelosi
Price (NC)
Rahall
Rangel
Reyes
Rivers
Rodriguez
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez
Sanders
Sawyer
Schakowsky
Scott
Serrano
Slaughter
Snyder
Solis
Stark
Strickland
Stupak
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (NM)
Udall (CO)
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson
Watt
Woolsey
Wu

[peacetalksforall]

122. The comments here are interesting because we are still as gullible

as teabagger types.

One world order. There are people on this earth from many nations that have decided that they deserve to own and rule the world. This was their plan. They own nearly all the plans.

These people from many nations have names and that we've barely heard of and faces we barely know. Some are very reconizable - Kissinger.

So we find we have one person from NSC telling us some truth, one from Treasury, one from the Pentagon ( don't count Powell) and I don't count every day lately.

We are ignorant about who they all are. The names and faces we know are all loyalists who carry off missions like Iraq - the best incumbants money can by. The top guys are those at the top of the Bilberberg Group, Tri-Lateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations and all their many associated organizations, foundations, and individuals.

Our invasion to change the regime was about earth resources and other perks. Iraq is only one country in the plan. One world order that way it is designed is to own and rule and make everyone feel patriotic so that they pull together to do and pay for the dirty work of these people at the top of the world.

PNAC = willing players with overpowering confidence and the right number of collaborators. Needing another Pearl Harbor.

We are a living the drama of their one world order. Little nips and tucks to accodate events that the think tanks didn't factor in always have to be made, but there is a good chance that it is all on schedule with music provided by political wizards at the tv networks - PLUS friends of the barons who get already wealthy people to contract to supply advice and counsel to the tv networks about the music played for the drama scenes that have to be reported and for their 'specials'. The music must persuade the emotions that kick off the coming together as victims stuff. Get the picture? On the way to one world order conceived by a select group - you have an end goal of acquisitions and control which also says - that they need to allow friends and contributors to the plan to make money today, plus later. And, should there be changes in the plan or some parts that have to be played by ear - postponements and cancellations - everyone is to make sure that they recognize and do something about even more ways to make money for their people. And when the U.S. is brought down, make sure that all of 'them' make money off of it whether it's moving their family started factory to another country or whether it using a little of your own money to start a multi-billion dollar security firm - or whether you make the money be buying a prison. And when you have to bring down something like the towers to push-start a part of the agenda called Pearl Harbor 2, make sure that as many buddies as possible make plenty off money off of that, also.

They want a privatized world. And we keep talking Dem and Repub loyalty. We re stuck because everythings is secret and nd there is only one path - to follow what we were told to believe in when we were children.

It's all their big project - we should start to 'get it' it figured out. They re learning about us. We are code in their databases. We are self-blinded.

So ... I wonder if Gen. Shelton's book has any sentences devoted to the pallets and pallets of missing money that the Military was responsible for.

[Faygo Kid]

125. Richard Clarke nailed this years ago.