AP Poll: Repeal? Many Wish Health Law Went Further

[dtotire]

Source: NY Times

AP Poll: Repeal? Many Wish Health Law Went Further
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: September 25, 2010


Filed at 10:56 a.m. ET




WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama's health care overhaul has divided the nation, and Republicans believe their call for repeal will help them win elections in November. But the picture's not that clear cut.

A new AP poll finds that Americans who think the law should have done more outnumber those who think the government should stay out of health care by 2-to-1.

"I was disappointed that it didn't provide universal coverage," said Bronwyn Bleakley, 35, a biology professor from Easton, Mass.

More than 30 million people would gain coverage in 2019 when the law is fully phased in, but another 20 million or so would remain uninsured. Bleakley, who was uninsured early in her career, views the overhaul as a work in progress.


more:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/09/25/us/politics/AP-US-Health-Care-Poll.html?hp


Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/09/25/us/politics/AP-US-Health-Care-Poll.html?hp

[Francesca9]

1. We passed what we wanted to pass

We controlled Congress and the White House. (We even had 60 votes in the Senate.) The voters gave us more political power than has happened in my memory. The voters asked us to deliver change. We delivered what we delivered.

The compromises made had nothing to do with the impotent GOP, the voters gave them no power at all to stop anything. ALL compromises made were demanded by Democrats - and we passed what is now law.

This election will reflect the opinion of the voters on what we accomplished with the unprecedented power that they entrusted to us for C H A N G E. Our time for change has come and gone. It WILL come again because the repubs will screw things up, again. When it comes, will we do better?

[ooglymoogly]

14. +1 nt

[greiner3]

17. hahahaha

You forgot the sarcasm icon again.

[defendandprotect]

20. Trust voters will hold their noses and keep pushing to the left ... MEDICARE FOR ALL....

A one-Democratic Party will be easier to handle than a two party system playing us

off as a vote for sour milk or really sour milk!!

76%+ of voters wanted a single payer/government run health care program -- and the

numbers were still rising as the vote came! I should say ... as the "corporate-vote"

came down!!

Obama and Baucus --as Rahm has "crowed" about -- worked to retain the PRIVATIZED health

care system for the benefit of elites/wealthy .... nothing to do with the needs of citizens

suffering here!!

Shame - shame - shame!!

\

[SkyDaddy7]

79. That is simply not true!

As much as I would LOVE for what you said, "76%+ of voters wanted a single payer/government run health care program -- and the numbers were still rising as the vote came!" to be true it simply was not!

I have asked EVERYONE who keeps repeating that number 76% to please provide me with the polling data that supports its & no one has. Right as Obama was taking office 70% thought only government could solve the Health Care problems in this country. However, once the Rupert Murdoch Media Empire along with talk radio began their campaign of fear & lies that number went down.

PLEASE do not think I am trying to argue against Single Payer I"M NOT! I had my insurance drop me not long after I had a life destroying spinal cord injury which was almost as scary to deal with as my spinal cord injury! It involved my wife and I having to get a divorce in order for me to qualify for an emergency entrance into Medicare. So I know personally how important Single Payer would be.

The current HCR is not perfect & would be a much better program if it had a PO.

PLEASE provide me with the source that has lead some to believe that 3/4 of the country wants Single Payer...That would mean half of those who vote Republican & some who claim to be Tea Baggers want Single Payer and I simply can't believe that without some facts to back it up.

It just seems that many want it to be that high so they can continue saying the Democrats & Obama are no better than Republicans & I don't believe that either.

[Francesca9]

81. Gallup had the percentage as 12% in 2007

http://www.gallup.com/poll/27322/Prescription-Healing-Healthcare-From-People.aspx

That sounds about right because it is about the number of progressives.

[SkyDaddy7]

131. Yes, I agree...

I would like to see some type of Single Payer that covers everyone with basic insurance...Then the insurance companies could still make money selling folks plans that add addition coverage like they do in France & probably other countries as well.

There is no reasonable reason why America does not cover all its citizens.

[grahamhgreen]

83. Yes, those numbers are true... I'll try to dig them up for you

Right now I'm on my phone....

[rpannier]

85. I've found polls that put it a 59%

I've never seen 70% except in some individual states

[Francesca9]

87. The highest that I found was 34% - Rasmussen

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/december_2009/34_favor_single_payer_health_care_system

[rpannier]

110. Link

http://www.wpasinglepayer.org/PollResults.html

[defendandprotect]

114. The numbers were at 76% and rising at the time of the vote....

Olberman and others have also reported that --

Catholics wanted single payer/government run health care at 73% -- 83% if you added

in Latino/Latinas!

And that included 51% for abortions that were simply CHOICE!

You can be that Stupak had to do what he did and the US Catholic Bishops had to try

to control Congress by trying to influence Pelosi -- including with a phone call from Rome --

BECAUSE OF THOSE FIGURES .... NOT BECAUSE OF ANY FAKED MORALITY BY THE RCC!!

[Francesca9]

130. Link please?

Rasmussen seems to have the highest poll number on single payer

The other polls that were higher were not about single payer

There seems to be no link or poll for 76%

[dogfacedboy]

123. Rasmussen = FOXNewsfornitwits

[RainDog]

112. Here: NYTimes, June 20, 2009: 72% support Medicare-like program for all

This was a New York Times/CBS News poll.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/health/policy/21poll.html

The poll found that most Americans would be willing to pay higher taxes so everyone could have health insurance and that they said the government could do a better job of holding down health-care costs than the private sector.

The national telephone survey, which was conducted from June 12 to 16, found that 72 percent of those questioned supported a government-administered insurance plan — something like Medicare for those under 65 — that would compete for customers with private insurers. Twenty percent said they were opposed.

...Sixty-four percent said they thought the federal government should guarantee coverage, a figure that has stayed steady all decade. Nearly 6 in 10 said they would be willing to pay higher taxes to make sure that all were insured, with 4 in 10 willing to pay as much as $500 more a year.

[defendandprotect]

116. Thank you -- 72% support Medicare-like program ... and it did rise to 76%+ ...

and was still increasing at the time of the vote -- !!


Here: NYTimes, June 20, 2009: 72% support Medicare-like program for all
Posted by RainDog
This was a New York Times/CBS News poll.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/health/policy/21poll....

The poll found that most Americans would be willing to pay higher taxes so everyone could have health insurance and that they said the government could do a better job of holding down health-care costs than the private sector.

The national telephone survey, which was conducted from June 12 to 16, found that 72 percent of those questioned supported a government-administered insurance plan — something like Medicare for those under 65 — that would compete for customers with private insurers. Twenty percent said they were opposed.

...Sixty-four percent said they thought the federal government should guarantee coverage, a figure that has stayed steady all decade. Nearly 6 in 10 said they would be willing to pay higher taxes to make sure that all were insured, with 4 in 10 willing to pay as much as $500 more a year.




:)

[lib_wit_it]

124. Right, but Congress listened to the tiny Teabagging minority who hate other Americans and would

rather die themselves than to spend one penny to provide health care for any other person.

[tomp]

128. even if people say they would be willing to pay more in taxes for single payer...

....it is not necessary. Obama himself has said that we are already paying enough to support such a plan. other countries get better health care for less money.

[SkyDaddy7]

134. EXACTLY! However, this is not "Single Payer"...

This is for the Public Option...Which this is the poll that folks are getting the +70% for PO from...Unfortunatley that is not the case.

This poll shows exactly why the Democrats did not even consider the Single Payer and it also shows how the Republicans play their game via the Rupert Murdoch Media Empire!

The Republicans have a huge advantage when it comes to controlling the message on almost all issues...First, the Democrats are trying to fix a very complex problems so they have to actually educate the a public that has the attention span of a nat & is scared very easily! Then the Democrats have to rely on the MSM to not only get their message out but to educate the public...Obviously this is not working!

The Republicans on the other hand are not trying to educate the public all they are concerned with is spreading fear & lies to exploit what this poll & many others show about being uneasy with the government taking away coverage they actually like! It is by far much easier to scare the public rather than try & sell the public an alternative. BUT MOST OF ALL...The Republicans have an entire media empire to spread their fear & lies along with right wing talk radio that dominates the radio!

So, I am not one to jump on this bandwagon about the Democrats not getting their message out...It is not at all that simple! Folks who want to ignore the Rupert Murdoch Media Empire & its influence on not only the public but the MSM is just not taking in the big picture!

[Francesca9]

135. Wehy hurt every working American?

The RNC has decided that the road to victory will be on the two battles just announced.

1. Taxes are too high
Their message will be that Democrats let the Bush Tax Cuts expire. This increased the lowest income tax rate by 50%, raised taxes on families with children, and hurt every working American.

2. HCR does not work
Their message will be that HCR failed, that the promised $2,500 health cost reduction never arrived but instead costs are out of control.

Why are we walking into this trap? We still have until January to fix these two issues. After that, 60 senate votes may be very hard to reach.

[defendandprotect]

113. Give me a break -- even CATHOLICS supported single payer/government run health care at 73% -- and

if you added in Latinos/Latinas it was 83% -- !!!

I've given a full breakdown of the Catholic info many times -- think I have it in

my Journal and I have it in front of me!


CATHOLICS ALSO WANTED REPRODUCTIVE CARE INCLUDED!!

So much for Stupak and the Pelosi meetings with the US Catholic Bishops and Pelosi

taking a call from Rome!!

Why is it always so easy to believe what the right wing propaganda pushes out -- ?


And, unfortunately, the Obama/Rahm/Baucus -- all pre-owned and pre-bought by the health

care industry. Unless you really don't understand what campaign financing $$ is all about?


Here's DLC/Rahm "crowing" about how obama SAVED THE PRIVATIZED HEALTH CARE SYSTEM FOR

THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY!!


Rahm Crowing ...

[]Here is the quote: ”In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry; the fact that the overhaul of health care preserved the private delivery system; the fact that billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18...

This was posted on DU by another poster 8/12/10

[pnwmom]

25. We did NOT have 60 votes. Lieberman was an independent not

a Democrat, and he was intent on his power-play.

[Francesca9]

32. Fine - it was all Lieberman's fault

We can blame the whole mess on Joe Lieberman in 2012.

Who here thinks that this will work - even if it were true?

[defendandprotect]

118. Right -- after Obama made Lieberman KING of the Congress ... !!

[treestar]

133. OF course it is true

We can't get what we want, because of people in other states and the system. The system allows voters to pick Senators for their states. The Senate has a role in it all. So very basic. These "disappointed" people simply don't understand the system and don't bother to try. They just want everything handed to them.

If they are from Connecticut, they could have done something to boot Lieberman out, like campaign for the Democrat. Or accept the fact they picked Lieberman, added his influence to the Senate, and that combined with other states, the Senators were not a group who would get universal coverage passed.

These voters sound so helpless.

[Hydra]

82. Lieberman was favored by the party bigwigs over Ted Lamont

Because they felt anyone who wanted to rock the boat over Iraq would be a liability.

Or maybe they wanted it that way so that they can do things like the Healthcare bill and have a convenient excuse every time.

[Stumbler]

30. Wait a second...

"We even had 60 votes in the Senate."

-- No, 'we' ("the people," the Dems, Liberals, or Progressives) never had 60 votes. No matter how many times NPR claims Lieberman caucuses w/ the Dems, it's simply not true. If the issue at hand was the "America Finds Puppies Adorable Act" then and only then would Lieberman caucus w/ the Dems (as would 98% of Repugs). But there were plenty of "Blue dog" Dems, "DLC" Dems, or otherwise "conservative" Dems who ensured the Democratic caucus would not function as a single, unified voice.

Republicans march in lockstep with their leadership out of principle, even when they disagree.
Democrats routinely create circular firing-squads because no solution is ever widely agreeable to all members.

(Spell-check edit)

[Joe Bacon]

80. We only needed 51 votes with reconciliation.

The Public Option could have been passed under reconciliation rules. Reid was too chicken to force reconciliation until Mad Max's Mess was rammed down our throats.

[defendandprotect]

119. Agree ... except that anyone is "chicken" or "spineless" ... this is about corporatism....

and campaign financing BRIBERY ....

And this was posted by another poster here at DU on August 12, 2012....

Obama and his administration were about PRESERVING THE PRIVATIZED HEALTH CARE SYSTEM ...

and here's --



Ramh .... crowing about preserving "private health care industry" ... business s/b grateful!

Here is the quote: ”In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry; the fact that the overhaul of health care preserved the private delivery system; the fact that billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18...

[L0oniX]

35. Will you marry me?

[valerief]

41. Blue dogs ain't part of "we". They're "them". nt

[tomp]

129. hell, I'm not even a part of "we".

the democrats do whatever it takes to support the rich, irrespective of what the people want. if the people want something REALLY BADLY, the democrats come up with some half-assed bastardized version of of what we wanted that has a veneer of looking like what we wanted.

[The Wielding Truth]

44. There is no time to be a defeatist. It must be a passing cloud. We must keep pushing!

[RaleighNCDUer]

97. Thank you, Candide. nt

[defendandprotect]

120. Yes -- but pushing against all corporatism.... beginning with Repugs ....

but including DLC and all corporate Democrats --

if you have any doubt -- read this --

It was from the beginning and always about PRESERVING THE PRIVATIZED HEALTH CARE SYSTEM...

That's what Obama/Baucus/Rahm did for their sponsors -- $$$$$$$$$



Ramh .... crowing about preserving "private health care industry" ... business s/b grateful!Thursday, August 12, 2010 10:03 AM

Here is the quote: ”In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry; the fact that the overhaul of health care preserved the private delivery system; the fact that billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18...

[Scuba]

48. Nailed it.

[leftstreet]

101. +1

:applause:

Welcome to DU!

[bjobotts]

104. Nonsense.Most senate dems were blocked by a handful of DINOs and all republicans

[bjobotts]

105. Asenate dem majority in number only not in ideology. Nelson. Bayh etc side with repubs

[bjobotts]

106. Lieberman is a phony and cant count as dem. Most dems wanted HC reform to go further

[bjobotts]

107. If repubs are allowed to win a majority there won't be another chance for reform

[bjobotts]

109. By mid 2020s there will either be a major war or we will have wifully turned this nation around to

accept the necessity for survival as well as freedom from HC to energy...from wall street banking controlled economy to state banks and self regulation to support our economy and infrastructure...from outsourcing to making goods and services at home employing our nation's people rather than forcing them to compete with $.50/hr with Taiwan. It all begins with this midterm election cycle. If repubs win a majority the mid 2020s will be a destructive and complete disaster rather than a complete progressive change to come into balance with national unity which both ensures our survival as well as our freedom. If our democracy is bought and lobbyists write all our legislation then we become a corporatocracy...heavily taxed, poverty pay with no benefits and no means of appeal.

[Francesca9]

115. DINOS are democrats

[cilla4progress]

2. If true, this is hopeful..

Now we just have to get the message OUT as well as Republicans do....

[Francesca9]

4. What message would you send to voters?

The voters think that we screwed up health care reform. This is the message that the GOP is sending. Are they wrong?

What message will convince voters that we didn't totally screw up health care reform?

[cilla4progress]

6. It is hopeful in that it

could / should persuade lawmakers and administration to stay full on the push for more progressive health "care" reform. I too am disappointed and yes, disGUSTed, that this didn't happen in the first round. Misread on the part of Dems? Corporate influence? Timidity? All of the above? Yes, and probably more. But we DO know they read polls. Let's hope they read this one, get some cojones, and act accordingly. The biggest cojones on Capitol Hill right now are borne by Speaker Pelosi. And I sent her an email stating so, yesterday.

[Francesca9]

7. The GOP is running on health care reform

HCR is one of the two central Republican promises being made.

The first round was entrusted by the voters to only Democrats. This next round will necessarily be bipartisan, or there will be no second round. (There will not be 60 dem votes in the Senate and the GOP may control the House.) Will Democrats now support or oppose the Republican leadership's health care reform plans?

Will Democrats become obstructionist - or will we work for health care reform version 2.0?

[cilla4progress]

8. You mean REPEAL of HCR?

Part of me hopes Dems WILL become obstructionist - certainly as to any Repub rollbacks. It's still such a hot potato, and without enactment of all the reforms until 2014, it won't be possible to get widespread support in the immediate shortterm (hell, my rates increased already due to HCR - as my insurer stated, and I haven't benefitted yet.) So, at this point, it all depends on how well we message this. And I'm afraid we haven't done very well at the messaging to date. Clearly, Congress has turned the politicking over to Obama from here through the mid-terms. Yes, up for reelection legislators are headed to their home districts to campaign, but the current wisdom is that since Newt in '94, all politics is no LONGER local -- even midterms are national.

Dem legislators appear to perceive that Obama is the only one with the popularity and courage to push for ending tax cuts on the rich (thus the deferred vote) and, presumably, also for sticking with HCR as enacted. So, it's all up to him at this point - him and his message machine. Let's hope he can pull it off.

[Francesca9]

9. Democrats as The Party of No

If Congress does not produce a bi-partisan health care reform that the voters approve of then both parties will try to convince the voters that it wasn't their fault.

Expect that 2012 will feature GOP ads framing the Democrats as "The Party of No" for being obstructionists. If we are not then really The Party of No, these will fail. If we really are The Party of No because we are then obstructionists, this will be a highly effective strategy.

The key problem is that we totally screwed up HCR. We incorrectly assumed that if we did this that the voters would allow us to fix it later. What if in 2012 the voters think that (1) that we screwed it up once and (2) that we obstructed all efforts to fix it?

If we want to avoid becoming The Party of No, we now must allow a bi-partisan bill to pass.

[emulatorloo]

11. It can be fixed later as long as activists and talking heads stop trying to discourage Democratic

voter turnout by spinning good news as bad news.

[Francesca9]

13. Please post the good new on HCR?

You are correct, if there is good news it needs to get out NOW

[Francesca9]

16. BOTH parties are running on repealling parts of HCR

No one really likes it.

Americans want whomever they next elect to get it right. They will punish obstructionists.

[cilla4progress]

37. As for Dems..

only those running AWAY from it...unless I missed something (always a possibility..)?

[metapunditedgy]

65. "Misread"? Are we also misreading the public on finance reform, BP criminal charges,

social security cuts, and DADT?

If those are all misreads, the party pollsters are the most incompetent bunch of hacks you could ever find... I just don't believe it.

(And I'm tired of the "Blame Joe Lieberman" fairy tale.)

[emulatorloo]

10. Anybody who paid attention knows the House put out a very good bill and the Senate screwed it up

our "Majority" in the Senate was razor thin and included "Liebermann" and "Ben Nelson" who did their part to assist their Republican allies in taking out the good things the House put in.

[Francesca9]

12. Good excuses for failure

are not likely to impress voters.

Are you impressed with how health care was reformed? If we don't like it - who will?

[cilla4progress]

38. True dat...

Kennedy's passing was a loss of mythical proportions, on many fronts...

[w4rma]

86. Help purge our Blue Dog DLC Limousine Neoliberals. Protect our progressives. (nt)

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Roland99]

5. Giving in to the GOP and the DLC at every turn

woo hoo! Progress!

[defendandprotect]

21. We need to keep TARGETING Repug corporates ... and

after we get rid of them, deal with our own corporates!!

[Ticonderoga]

15. You can't ignore that we were

hoodwinked, bamboozled, snookered and whatever else Obama claimed the Retardlicans were doing during his campaign for POTUS. The facts are the facts, and while he (Obama) was claiming the final bill "must contain a public option" he was selling us out in August 2009 behind closed doors. He never engaged, he simply rolled over and allowed the progressive movement to be punked into a watered down piece of shit bill which in affect is nothing but a big kiss on the ring to the big insurance cartels.

[lib2DaBone]

18. Max Baucus thanks Liz Fowler of Wellpoint for writing health Care Bill...

Baucus tried to appoint his girlfirend as U.S. Attorney.

Who appointed Max Baucus as the head of Health Care Reform?

Baucus Intoxicated on the floor of the Senate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Y9X5ggxzA

[Little Star]

34. Yep!

[Drale]

19. The problem was

that at the time the bill was passed, Obama was still under the illusion that the Republicans would actually help and he was trying to make it palatable to them. Luckily it seems lately he has woken up from that delusion.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

23. Is that why he established that bullshit bi-partisan Catfood Commission?

He's woken up from nothing; if it seems like he has, it's because it's only 38 days until the mid-terms.

[BrklynLiberal]

27. ....

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. That makes sense

A lot of people I talked talked to THOUGHT that Obama was putting together a Canadian-style system.

The Republicanites thought so, thanks to their media blatherers, and were opposed, because they believed the horror stories.

The Democrats thought so, because it was hard to find information on exactly what was in the bill (I had to scour the Internet to find an executive summary), and because the right-wing media kept screaming "Socialism!" They wanted to believe that they would be getting a Canadian-style system and were deeply disappointed when I explained what the bill actually did.

I'd say that anyone who has ever received medical care in another Western industrialized country (or even Costa Rica, in one case that I know of) is in favor of a single-payer system.

[EFerrari]

24. That's what all the polls said, too, when we were being browbeaten

for fighting for that puny public option.

[Ticonderoga]

57. That is exactly right,

and that is why it is so damn frustrating.

[Francesca9]

31. Everyone knew what the bill would do

President Obama told us all here what was promised, it was never hard to get THIS information : http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama08_HealthcareFAQ.pdf

Among other things it was supposed to lower my health care costs by $2,500 this year. What really passed was something different, and yes THAT was a highly secret process where even many members of Congress could not get information.

The voters will hold us accountable for any differences between what we promised and what we delivered.

[Ticonderoga]

60. Yep, it looks like all our hard work

and money to put a Dem majority in congress and a "progressive candidate" in the W.H. was totally in vain.

[BrklynLiberal]

26. And this story is being told by all the MSM..broadcast far and wide?

Affecting the Dems running for Congress? Being touted by ANYONE in the administration or the Democratic party!!???

WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON IN THIS COUNTRY????????

[husky92]

28. Finally Some Positive News of Some Kind

It's about time something like this came out. After months of all the right-wing media spreading total lies that everyone is against this, some news comes out that people actually wanted more. I've told friends of mine this for months that this bill did not go far enough. All we got was noise from all the right wingers and the anti-healthcare nuts and their water carriers (Fox, Limbaugh, etc.) spreading lie after lie. I bet if you put this to a national vote, people would be in favor of a more nationalized healthcare bill. Too many people are without it and people like me who have it are getting killed by the high costs just to insure my family. Let's face it, most of the media went bonkers covering all those paid stooges that Dick Armey and others planted around the country to disrupt hearings. As they say, he who yells loudest...Enough said. Let's hope these nutjob right wingers out there don't get control of Congress and try to roll it back. I hope there is a big push by people to let them know that we don't want it to happen. They are trying their hardest to pay back all those millions the insurance industry plowed into those ads and demonstrations that we all watched on TV and read about in the media.

[Uncle Joe]

29. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, dtotire.

[slay]

33. When will the Dems learn and LEAD BOLDLY?

one day? never? sigh... :(

[ProSense]

36. Republicans are wrong if

they think Americans hate health reform



more

[Francesca9]

39. The Rublicans are RUNNING on health care reform

The Republicans are promising to fix it. This is one of the two key promises in the new "contract".

If you hired a contractor to fix your door and it was installed upside down - what would you say? If the contractor asked you to hire him again to fix it, what would you say?

We assumed that we could totally screw up health care reform and that the voters would still hire us to fix it later.

[ProSense]

43. "The Republicans are promising to fix it."

Really?

Republicans' New 'Pledge:' Spending, Tax Cuts, Health-Law Repeal

But thanks for the effort to defend Republicans and portray their "Pledge" as a "fix."

[Francesca9]

47. Many liked what was more than what passed

The poll posted explains that most Americans wanted something different from what passed. Almost everyone on DU agrees with this. Americans are united in disliking HCR as passed.

The Republicans are promising to repeal HCR and this position has a LOT of DU support IF HCR is now to be reformed by Republicans. They are also promising HCR after repealing what America (and DU) hates. They are not opposing HCR, they are advancing their version of HCR - and this begins by repealing the current law, and probably only the least popular parts.

HCR increased our health care costs and at this point these increased costs outweigh the benefits we get. Maybe it will work in 2014, I'm not smart enough to know, but just about everyone wants it changed or repealed before 2014 so we likely will never know if it would have worked in 2014.

Unless we win 60 votes in the Senate fixing health care reform will have to be a bi-partisan effort. If there is no bi-partisan reform then we will run in 2012 with commercials describing us as The Party of No, the party that screwed it up and then refused to fix it.

If HCR is not reformed by 2012 and if costs keep rising, we are in deeper trouble than we are now. Health care reform 2.0 needs to pass, and it needs to pass soon. If we have 60 Senate votes then we can fix it, if not we will need to cooperate on a bipartisan fix.

[ProSense]

49. First of all,

this reads like a Republican press release:

"The Republicans are promising to repeal HCR and this position has a LOT of DU support IF HCR is now to be reformed by Republicans. They are also promising HCR after repealing what America (and DU) hates. They are not opposing HCR, they are advancing their version of HCR - and this begins by repealing the current law, and probably only the least popular parts."

Maybe you really need to reread the NYT piece:

Those numbers are no endorsement for Obama's plan, but the survey also found a deep-seated desire for change that could pose a problem for Republicans. Only 25 percent in the poll said minimal tinkering would suffice for the health care system.

<...>

Republicans "are going to have to contend with the 75 percent who want substantial changes in the system," said Stanford political science professor Jon Krosnick, who directed the university's participation.

"Republican legislators' passion to repeal the legislation is understandable if they are paying attention to members of their own party," Krosnick added. "But if they want to be responsive to all Americans, there are more Democrats and independents than there are Republicans."

Health care proposals released by House Republican leaders last week would create new insurance options for people with medical problems and for small businesses, but they're likely to only cover a fraction of those who would be reached by Obama's law.

And even with that, the NYT doesn't give the full picture. The survey (PDF) is really good news for the President.

In general, do you favor, oppose, or neither favor nor oppose the law changing the health care
system that the U.S. Congress passed last March?

Favor strongly 9
Favor somewhat 21
Neither favor nor oppose 30
Oppose somewhat 17
Oppose strongly 23
Refused 0

Only 23 percent strongly oppose the law.

Most of the questions are worded in such a way that asks people to respond to what they believe the law will do and what they want it to do. Significant majorities want things that are already in the bill and many know that these things are in the bill.

[Francesca9]

51. Everyone now hates HCR & everyone wants a new and improved HCR

DU hates it, republicans hate it and independents hate it.

Who will fix it? Both parties say that they will.

We have the most to lose if it doesn't get fixed. If the only road to fixing it has to be bi-partisan - what will we do?

[ProSense]

52. Everyone does not hate the bill

You just seem to want to believe that they do.

[Francesca9]

53. Read the poll, listen to DU

You like the bill that passed?

You think that it doesn't need to be fixed?

[ProSense]

54. You may need to reread it

It doesn't show what you think it does.

[Francesca9]

55. The poll shows that it didn't accomplish what people wanted

True - or false?

[ProSense]

58. False

The poll shows what people want and believe. Those are completely separate from what the bill does.

If you ask people about specific provisions that are actually in the bill, they respond favorably.

[Francesca9]

56. Is there even one person here who doesn't want HCR improved?

[ProSense]

59. Improving the bill

isn't the same as repealing it or lauding Republicans for wanting to repeal it.

[Francesca9]

61. True, you have begun to grasp the concept

No one cares how HCR gets improved, if it means repeal and a better bill who here would say NO?

[ProSense]

63. No

"No one cares how HCR gets improved, if it means repeal and a better bill who here would say NO?"

The vast majority of people who want to see the bill improved absolutely do not want it repealed.

And they the majority of people do not support Republican attempt to repeal the bill, nor do they believe the Republicans are offering a better plan. In fact, most people, including some conservatives, believe Republicans are lying.

[larwdem]

93. HCR

I sure as hell don't want Republicans to fix it there way

[Francesca9]

95. Don't worry, without 60 Senate votes the GOP cannot fix anything

The thing to worry about is the democrats cannot either.

If no one fixes HCR it is our fault.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Francesca9]

64. It is a law and is not a bill

As it is I don't like it.

Americans don't care about the law - they want a reformed health care system. If this or any law needs repeal - fine

[ProSense]

66. Maybe you need to understand

"Because the majority clearly stated they wanted more from the bill."

the differencce between wanting and knowing. There are a lot of people who still do not know exactly what's in the bill. They don't know something is in the bill, but they want it to be.

The survey is worded in hypotheticals. From the OP article"

—Only 25 percent of the "get-outs" favor requiring health insurance companies to sell coverage to people regardless of pre-existing medical conditions, while 54 percent of the "do-mores" support it. The law requires insurers to cover children regardless of health problems starting this year, and that protection is extended to people of all ages in 2014.

—Among those who want a law that does more, 68 percent favor requiring medium to large companies to provide insurance to their workers or pay a fine; that stands at 28 percent among those who want the government out. The law does not require employers to offer coverage, but it hits companies that have 50 or more workers with a penalty if any full-time employee gets a government subsidy for health insurance.

Again, ask people about specific provisions that are in the bill and the responses are more definitive.

[Francesca9]

67. I don't know everything in the bill, do you?

I never read the bill, who has?

Maybe it is a great law and our health care system is now what we wanted it to be (or will be in 2014). This is possible, but I really doubt it.

I think that we passed a crappy law intending to fix it someday. My opinion however could be wrong.

Have you noticed that you are the only one who got what you wanted from this law? Only you like our present health care system?

[ProSense]

68. Wait

you're advocating the repeal of a law that you admit you don't fully understand?

[Francesca9]

69. I am not advocating repeal, just a better health care system

Have you read every page? If so, I respect this. If not ...

You like our health care system and I see lots of ways to improve it.

[Francesca9]

70. Why did my health insurance costs go UP?

Why is this a good thing? I was promised that it would decrease by $2,500.

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama08_HealthcareFAQ.pdf

Why doesn't this law require universal coverage?

[JDPriestly]

73. Let's face it. The bill would have been much better had Obama

invited single payer advocates to sit at the table and present their ideas. Even if those ideas had not been adopted, the plan that emerged would have been stronger.

It is also sad that Obama had someone from the health insurance industry write the bill when all was said and done.

But, the bill is better than nothing.

The only thing that I personally am worried about is that I don't know how it will affect my Kaiser medicare advantage plan. I rely on Kaiser to make a lot of decisions about what doctors I see. So far I have been happy with all of the Kaiser doctors I have dealt with. How will this new bill affect the rates that Kaiser charges (which are very low)? No one seems to have any idea.

Does anyone have an answer to my questions?

[Dawgs]

75. You speaking for everyone now?

Many, if not most, were happy when HCR passed. Many of us wanted a public option, single payer by states, or Medicare for those over 55, but no one wants to see it repealed and then changed.

We want those things I mentioned ADDED to the existing bill.

[Francesca9]

76. OK, everyone wants the law changed

Does that phrase it better? It is not a bill, it is now a law. When you improve a law with a new law you then in effect, repeal the first law.

We passed health care reform and no one likes our reform. No one on DU seems to. I don't speak for all - I have asked if one person here thinks that HCR reformed health care adequately?

Not one person (as yet) has said yes.

[bjobotts]

111. I like this reform.It is a good beginning.It also is a work in progress like SS was in the beginning

[bjobotts]

117. Repubs would do nothing but let ins. continue to rape us.Soon it will be Medicare for all

but first the dead bodies of the wealthiest CEOs in history must mount up as the nation sees they are unnecessary and just profiteering on our illnesses.

The dems are battleing a multibillion $ racket who is flooding money into any opposition motivated purely by greed. Yeah dems for at least getting it started...getting a foot in the door of what has been untouchable for 100yrs of greedy profiteering... the bill accomplished a lot and will lead to more when voters see how well it works and how badly they've been lied to by GOP propaganda goobers. "Death panels, take overs. gov. Drs., forced abortions etc..." "Pay a penalty for not being insured rather than just not getting a tax break if you have no ins." (That's like saying renters pay a penalty because home owners get 'tax break' for buying their homes.)

If the GOP says it or their supporters you know it is a lie or twisted propaganda.

Shorter version of "Contract to America". "We vow to do whatever the lobbyists from our corporate sponsors tell us to do." (Written by a corporate lobbyist just like the Contract to America was). We want all Americans to have a pony. They never say "How".

[Francesca9]

132. Was this a "good beginning" if the repubs finish HCR?

We did not adequately reform health care. We assumed that we would be allowed to fix it later. WRONG. This was a BAD assumption, unless we get 60 Senate votes again our chance to reform health care (without a bipartisan bill) is over for years or decades. When we did this under Clinton we lost Congress for 14 years.

The fatal flaw was deferring HCR benefits until 2014. The impact of the 2010 and 2012 elections without HCR were ignored.

[maryf]

126. no one wants to see it repealed and then changed. wrong

I am one who does...Expanding Medicare to include everyone would make Medicare more than solvent, cover everyone, and get rid of for profit health care...hr 676 is still in the house, btw.

[valerief]

40. All that matters is what the billionaires think. nt

[annabanana]

42. HEY!?!.. Why isn't this poll "teased" at the top & bottom of each news segment?

You know.. like Lohan

[Gman]

45. Once again, the 30%

as in 66% - 33%

[SoapBox]

46. The RushThugger/T.HaterBaggers are gonna SPIN, SPIN, SPIN this...

Didn't go far enough?

DUH!

[Kingofalldems]

50. K and R. Republicans will not like this one.

[Change Happens]

71. Way too awesome! Let them assholes run on repealing it now!

[mistertrickster]

72. I'm having a major case of "Itolduso-itis" right now. nt

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

74. This plays into Repub hands

Whether you think the health care bill went too far, or didn't go far enough, your opinion may be marked as "does not agree with HCR". The repubs claim that number as a mandate to roll it back.

Universal coverage was never on the table, and the public option was swept from the table. What we got was, I suppose, better than nothing.

Oh, well, at least Obama accomplished SOMETHING. The Repubs really wanted NOTHING.

:hi:

[Frank Cannon]

89. Anyone who thinks Republicans want to "fix" health care in this country...

is living in a dimension Rod Serling couldn't dream of.

[Francesca9]

90. Elections are decided by the independents

They have two years ahead to pretend to try to fix HCR, making proposals that we can never accept.

It is to their interest to keep it broken until 2012.

[Francesca9]

77. NPR is covering this question

here is the link

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130120731

[bullwinkle428]

78. Republicans' idea of "improving" HCR is that fucking tired-ass "across

state lines" bullshit that they were pushing throughout the debate...

[lib_wit_it]

125. Don't forget Torte Reform!!!

[grahamhgreen]

84. Now is the time to push to fix the crappy bill, as was promised by the party leadership. nt

[Francesca9]

88. It is now impossible to fix the law - it passed

HCR now is what it is.

The Senate won't allow democrats to fix the law alone. Now it has to be a bi-partisan fix.

If it doesn't get fixed by 2012, the GOP will hang it on us, they will say that we passed a crappy bill and then obstructed all efforts to improve it. They will call us the Party of No.

The problem is that it really is a crappy bill. No one likes it. It doesn't matter what it plans for 2014, it will be modified long before 2014.

[grahamhgreen]

102. There is bipartisan support to kill the mandate, this would level out the bill in a major way.

But, yes, it looks grim

[Francesca9]

91. This ties to the Bush Tax Cuts

The Bush tax Cuts are going to expire and for most Americans tax rates will go up enough to notice. The lowest rate will jump 50%.

Who will blame Republicans? These cuts are named after Bush. Obama has opposed them for the wealthy, but many will only remember that he was against it and that Bush passed it.

We will be wrongly blamed for raising taxes and for not delivering effective health care reform. It is now too late to fix either without bipartisan support - but there is no reason that they will give up their golden ticket in 2012, so there will be no bipartisan support.

[Blandocyte]

92. My hope is that the dumbasses will catch on despite Fox

telling them that "medicare for all" is bad. This is the richest g.d. country in the world. We can afford to pay for our citizens' medical care but might need the gov't to take it over. It is flagrantly immoral for the insurance companies to profit by denying services to the sick, yet no one seems to write that message large.

[Canuckistanian]

94. 2019, wow.

So, in two presidential cycles, the awesome power of the HCR bill will finally be realized.

Wow.

[Francesca9]

96. I will wager a LOT of money that HCR is modified before 2014

[Canuckistanian]

100. I won't take that bet

I KNOW it will be modified. That was the INTENT of the 2019 deadline.

There won't be any Health care reform - only Health INSURANCE reform. More tinkering around the edges, but the insurance companies STILL make their profit.

[yurbud]

98. thank you!

[yurbud]

99. from their mouth to Rahm's ears...

[OHdem10]

103. What DC never gets regarding Polls.and the GOP understands

and takes advantage thus pushing the country far right.

There is a strong inclination , (who knows it may be part
of human DNA but people like to be on the winning team.

They want to be able to brag at the water cooler.

Afghanis illustrated this beautifully during the early part
of the Afhghanistan War. This happened right on camera.
Geraldo was reporting live from that "Northern" part of
Afghanistan. A battle was going full force and Geraldo
was giving this blow by blow of the action. Things slowed.
Suddenly Geraldo has this perplexed look on his face as
he tries to explain. Some of the troops were changing
sides. He chats with soldiers who just changed sides,
then explains the Afhgan Soldiers want to be on the
winning side when they go back to their villages.

How does this apply to polls. Americans like to be
on the winning side. Polls appear to change almost
overnight even no big news event has occurred to make
people change. Republicans understand this. They keep
emotional level high. Having Fox aids greatly. They are
expert at stirring the pot. The Media comes breathlessly
reporting The Democrats are goners. Go back and see how
long they have been saying--Oh the Democrats are losing.
Obama is a lost cause. When the next poll is taken guess
what???? Democrats are further down and Obama is spiraling
downward.

I can remember the first time there was an inkling the Independents
were leaving Democrats. In the beginning they were leaving Dems
but not going over to Republicans. I can remember at that
time--The Media was chanting the Republican Refrain--they hate
Health Care. Actually there Democrats not happy with Health Care
Everyone got lumped together and it came out they hate Obama CARe.

How could they hate Obama care?? No one new what was in the bill.
Republicans do not want, have never wanted any form of National
Health Care. Even though this bill is Right of Center,(Insurance CO.
and Business Based) the Republicans were able to smear it with
Socialism Tag. Since there was not fighting back and I mean no
fighting back--no Democrats taking a stand to push back against
the Republican onslaught. THE REPUBLICANS WERE WINNING and
everyone loves a winner. Human beings being human beings more
people follow the crowd than are willing to stand on principle.

While this does not account completely, I believe a whole
lot of "mob psychology" has played a role.

Additionally, we all hear about authenticity being important.
Authenticity includes being able to take a position on and
issue and convince the world you believe in that position.







he

[Raster]

108. And certain persons display shock and surprise that the Class of 2008 Democratic Congress

and President Barrack Obama are not greeted more often with children singing songs and tossing floral arrangements.

WE voted for an end to two illegal and immoral wars that are bleeding this country dry and stealing our children's future.

WE voted for a government-managed comprehensive health care plan EQUAL to that which members of government enjoy to cover all citizens of the United States.

WE voted for a new sheriff in town, one who would enforce the laws and punish the "evildoers," even if those "evildoers" formerly haunted the Oval Office.

WE voted a loud and clear message to the Democratic Party and we were assured our message was heard.

WE voted for and end to DADT and other institutionalized homophobia.

The Democratic Party can rail against the professional leftists, the progressives and any other political demons du jour, but the real reason that many of the voters that swept the Democrats into power in 2008 and are now seemingly deserting them in 2010 is that they feel the Democrats have not fulfilled their promises. It's just that simple.

[defendandprotect]

121. kicky

[avaistheone1]

122. The law should have went all the way to single payer.

[yurbud]

127. this kind of shoots to shit the DLC argument that people wanted to preserve the for profit model

of health care insurance.

People do not care if a policy is socialist or capitalist, only if it works.

[NoodleyAppendage]

136. Removing the Public Option Prior to Debate was COWARDLY and CRAVEN.

Obama's plummeting approval is, in part, due to his and his DLC-loving "Iago" Emanuel's failure to follow through on the wave of change promised during the 2008 election. We wanted a populist restructuring of America, not a cowardly, abusee-abuser relationship with corporate politicos.

J

[Francesca9]

137. Everyone wants HCR fixed - but without the votes - how will we?

Assume that we don't have 60 senate votes in January - how do we fix HCR then?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

138. You need to stop speaking in superlatives --

not "everyone" wants HCR fixed. And how are you even defining "fixed"? Some want it improved upon; some want it gone; and some are happy with it the way it is.

[Francesca9]

139. It should have been universal health care - Americans are now without healthcare

[yurbud]

140. send this to Obama and Rahm

[okieinpain]

141. and there end lies the problem. the blue dog dems would not

go for a public option, which has dem supporters pissed off at obama and the rest of the dems who would have supported a public option. the same blue dog dems who have managed to screw up a easy vote on taxes.