Allegations against Venezuela should be taken seriously: US

[steven johnson]

Source: AFP

Allegations that Venezuela is harboring leftist Colombian guerrillas in its territory should be taken "very seriously," a US State Department official told AFP on Friday.

Leftist President Hugo Chavez broke off relations after Colombia on Thursday after Bogota charged, in a presentation to the Organization of American States, that there are some 1,500 Colombian guerrillas in Venezuela in dozens of camps.

"Colombia's allegations need to be taken very seriously," the State Department said in response to a written query from AFP.

"Venezuela has an obligation to Colombia and to the international community to fully investigate this information and move to prevent the use of its sovereign territory by terrorist groups," the State Department wrote.



Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h4yh3yHTbdpQD6rjRO8ufH0KV6tw

[ck4829]

1. But Colombian soldiers killing peasants and dressing them up as guerrillas is nothing to worry about

[laughingliberal]

134. +1000 nt

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Renew Deal]

10. You think Hillary is a sack of shit?

:wtf:

[dipsydoodle]

13. Your words

not mine. I just used an acronym.

Notwithstanding that your Secretary of State, certainly not mine , should keep her nose out of Latin American affairs. The USA has done enough damage there in the past.

Need a list ?

[Renew Deal]

15. Latin American affairs like the Falkland Islands?

You come from a place that with one of the most barbaric imperialist histories in the world and you want to lecture about "damage." That's a joke.

[dipsydoodle]

19. You chose a very poor example

I would suggest you read its history : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands

[Renew Deal]

20. Hypocrite

[dipsydoodle]

21. You didn't even take the time to read that

So - who's the hypocrite ?

[Renew Deal]

22. I didn't need to, but obviously you do.

"International reaction ranged from support for Argentina in Latin American countries (except Chile and Colombia), to opposition in the Commonwealth and Europe (apart from Spain), and eventually the United States."

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=british+imperialism+in&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=CNaxN-L1JTMOcHoWWhgS18_XODAAAAKoEBU_QamCR&fp=e080522a9eadb503

And good like trying to make a case that current US policy is much different from UK policy. The US leads and the UK follows.

[saigon68]

227. Nice shot of Poodle Blair

[pattmarty]

3. Is Obama getting ready for a "Pinochet redux"?

[dipsydoodle]

4. Allegations

against the USA ref the 9/11 Chile coup always did need to be taken seriously......but never were.

[pattmarty]

8. There is enough information out there now that is is no longer...............

......"allegations". It's like the Shah and Iran in 1953, there is documentation and other "proof" that shows the US involvement. You "might" have an argument on HOW MUCH we were involved, but there is enough out there now to definitely to show we WERE INVOLVED.

[naaman fletcher]

132. Did you see what Uribe did?

He cancelled diplomatic relations with Venezuela and moved the army to the border. Oh wait, that was Chavez who did that. Nevermind.

[Zorro]

5. Hugo is not interested in taking action against FARC

They're philosophical brothers-in-arms.

[hack89]

24. There are reasons that the drug trade has flourished in Venezuela.

the FARC being pushed out of Colombia is one of them

[bitchkitty]

26. Oh, shut up with the FARC. I swear, you must have such

a vivid fantasy life it's no wonder you post such silly statement.

[Zorro]

51. Are you saying there are no FARC camps in Venezuela?

[sabrina 1]

76. Are you saying there were no WMDs in Iraq?

Pathetic how the propaganda works even on progressive boards. They are definitely getting their money's worth for the 4 million they are spending to get people like you to spread the lies.

Another oil producing country that wants to keep its oil for its own people. We just can't have that now can we?

Who cares who's in Venezuela? Do you live there?

And why is this government dealing with a Genocidal leader like Uribe? Can you explain that?

[Zorro]

100. So are you saying there are no FARC camps in Venezuela?

How about responding to the question, instead of trying to change the subject? Do you think the allegations are only "propaganda" meant to sully Chavez' reputation?

I think the allegations have merit -- as does the State Department, which undoubtedly has better information on the subject than I -- and most certainly you -- do.

FARC is a regional problem, and will remain a regional problem until the affected governments coordinate an effective response to address the issue. Chavez' petulant and saber-rattling response only lends credence to the allegations.

Chavez is not as universally beloved in South America as you seem to believe -- it's something you'd discover if you actually travel there. Many consider him to be a loudmouthed menace and a meddler in their internal affairs -- the suitcase full of money to influence the Argentine elections is just one example.

I suggest in the future you refrain from accusing "people like you to spread the lies"; that's also an allegation that the Obama administration's State Department is likewise "spreading lies". Many true Democrats recognize Chavez' deliberate outreach to authoritarian governments as a clear sign that he's no "progressive".

I know it's hard for Chavistas who huff on the fumes from Hugo's tailpipe to accept, but the administration may be dead on correct on the subject of this thread.

[laughingliberal]

139. Sure. Our state department had much more reliable information on the WMD's in Iraq, too.

I'd rather be huffing on the fumes from Chavez's tailpipe than Uribe's.

[Zorro]

162. Hmmm. So you agree there are no FARC camps in Venezuela

Sure gonna suck if it's conclusively proven otherwise.

But keep huffing on the fumes from Hugo's tailpipe. To each her own.

[naaman fletcher]

128. I agree.

The fact that the US has done all sorts of bad things means, on a factual basis, that there are no FARC camps in Venezuela. That is a very keen sense of logic you have there.

[laughingliberal]

140. I believe the point is the credibility of the information from our government.

I'm hard pressed to think of any democratically elected government in LA our government has supported or any brutal, RW dictatorships our government has failed to support. Add a little oil to the mix and I take it all with a salt mine full of salt.

[naaman fletcher]

151. a very fair position

However there are some here who seems to think that the US is the sole source of evil in the world, and that everyone who is against the US is a saint.

[howaboutme]

133. Corporations are taking oil from Americans too.

According to a discussion on CSPAN and a GAO report, Bill Clinton's administration failed to implement oil royalties on Gulf of Mexico deep water drilling leases that would trigger increases based upon oil price, and that cost US taxpayers billions. Our oil went to corporations and then sold to China instead of royalties going into our treasury. It doesn't make any difference of Party the corporations are the shadow government.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10633.html

The Government Accountability Office report — reviewed by Politico — suggests that the foregone royalties could reach $53 billion, depending on the outcome of industry lawsuits and what critics contend was a lapse in administration under President Bill Clinton.

Comment from this youtube by "patsfreak" worth repeating - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q I love how we went from a republican president and congress to a democratic president and congress AND IT'S BUSINESS AS USUAL! Everyone seems to think voting for the other party will fix the problem. The only cure is to vote people in who aren't in the "big club".

[sabrina 1]

145. Who cares about FARC?

Why do YOU care what happens in foreign countries that are NOT enemies of the U.S.? Why aren't you screaming about what's happening in the Congo? Or any number of other places around the globe where people are being killed and disappeared and tortured?

What exactly is it you care about? Venezuela is happy with their democratically elected president. What business is it of yours how they handle their domestic problems?

You are either in support of the degradation of this country from a Democracy to an Empire, or you are a victim of an increasing propaganda machine aided by the western media, as was the Iraq War, and will be complicit in a criminal destabalization of an emerging democracy or worse, an invasion of that country, for its OIL. Because that is the only reason we are hearing about these 'oooooh, Chavez is supporting terrrah'.

Sometimes I wonder about the intelligence of some of the Amercian people, especially so soon after having gone through this exact same thing in Iraq.

Or are we going to hear next that there is a giant Mushroom Cloud headed our way from that oil producing country and enemy of the whole world, Venezuela?

Do you realize how silly you look falling for it all over again?

[Zorro]

157. Who cares about FARC? I do.

That's why I offer my commentary on the subject, which is the key issue in this thread. Duh.

If you think no one should comment about current affairs on a discussion board about current affairs, then you're in the wrong place.

If you want to discuss what's going on in the Congo, why don't you start a muddle-headed thread on that subject, and maybe I'll mosey over and drub your keister there.

[Tempest]

6. Just like the allegations that Iraq had WMD, right?

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

[golfguru]

79. The 5000 villagers in Iraq were killed by chemical poison bombs

dropped under command of Chemical Ali.
Do you call those WMD's or is 5000 too small a number?
How about Iranian soldiers being gassed during the 10 year war?

[pattmarty]

96. Well then where are they now? In your fucking back yard? I think.........

..........that may be the ONE place we didn't check.

[golfguru]

187. Iraq is bigger than California

Does any one know every single square yard in CA?

Our Intelligence services know for sure IRAQ used WMD's on
it's own people. There are video's of 5000 bodies lying dead
in some village which was against Saddam's policies. SO your
trying to say there were no WMD's in Iraq is illogical, dumb
and inane. Bu refusing to believe the proven you only show your
ignorance.


But that does not matter. What matters is was the Iraq war justified?
IMHO..NO! No war is justified unless we are attacked first or are in
immediate danger of being attacked. Neither was the case with Iraq.

There is no way I condone Bush's actions in Iraq and waste of blood
and treasure.

[pattmarty]

243. Fuck, grow up and read a "little". The WMD's that Iraq DID have............

.........were done away with in the early nineties. Jesusfuckingchrist, this has been documented by ex Iraqi military, the UN and many others. Our government KNEW that there were NO WMD when we invaded.

[golfguru]

247. I do not bother with posters spewing profanity

Sorry you did not have better upbringing.

[pattmarty]

251. So, la dee fucking da, me too. Have a shitty day.

[Judi Lynn]

248. All Bush needed was a technical excuse to begin the devastation. Of course it didn't have to be true

It is of the filthiest eras in America's history. Hope this country will never attempt to stoop that low again.

He should be in prison.

As for "foul" language, there's NOTHING as foul as the nightmarish bloodbath _{George W. Bush} created with his evil invasion of Iraq.

[pattmarty]

252. Well, you get what I call "ringers" here at DU and you know they.........

..........are more empathetic to certain websites not quite as center left as this one. Jesus, EVERYBODY knows now that Iraq DID NOT have any WMD anywhere near the time we invaded. Unless you are really crazy and have absolutely no grasp on reality.

[Judi Lynn]

254. Being crazy, with no grasp on reality always helps give comments that special

pomposity that can happen ONLY when they are speaking from their lower portions.

We all know having to take time to read, and think, and research can only slow you down, and by that time you can lose the race in getting here to evaluate, pass official judgement upon other posters who are trying to discuss the subject!

Can you imagine a more pointless way to spend one's time than haunting the message board of people you don't agree with, trying your best to throw a wrench into the machinery and clog things up? Jesus H. Christ in a hang glider.

[Tempest]

114. Irrelevant to Bush's claims Iraq had WMD

Chemical weapons have a short shelf life and would have been useless by 2000 and not the threat Bush claimed.

And who sold the chemical weapons to Saddam? The good old U.S. of A.

[sabrina 1]

240. Where did Saddam get that poison from?

Why do you think Bush et al used WMDs as the reason to go to war with Iraq?

Because they KNEW what we had sold him under Daddy Bush and Reagan. WE ARMED Saddam Hussein, to fight the Iranians, and we armed the Iranians also. We armed Al Queda, we armed the Death Squads in Central America. We were behind the coup of Chavez in 2002, and of Aristedes a few years later. And more recently, behind the Honduran Coup.

WE are the bad guys, we are the ones killing people around the globe NOT Chavez.

We put Saddam in power.

We put the Shah and his brutal regime in power also.

But we hid all that from the American people.

Who in their right mind would believe anything this government has to say about any other country until significant changes are made in our foreign policy.

It would not shock me at all to find out that if there are any 'FARC' fighters in Ven., they are most likely agents provocateurs planted there by the CIA. It wouldn't be the first time. One thing I know. Chavez is way too smart to do so. He wants badly to never give the U.S. any reason to discredit him.

He is the LEAST likely suspect if there are any FARC fighters in that country.

Sheesh the lack of critical thinking in some of these threads is mind-boggling, but it does explain how this country is so easily led around by the nose, but the rulers of this country.

[Downwinder]

244. Who furnished the gas? n/t

[bitchkitty]

104. In a way, WORSE than the old boss.

Because I trusted him. Never again...

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zorro]

117. Democrats question Obama's policies

Democrats support Obama's policies.

Non-Democrats declare that Obama is worse than Bush and will never trust him again.

Which one are you?

[bitchkitty]

121. Idiotic assumption.

If I don't agree with the current Democratic Administration's line that Venezuela is a big bad wolf waiting to smother us all in a blanket of communism, then I'm a non-Democrat.

Simply moronic, Zorro.

[Zorro]

135. Venezuela is a big bad wolf

waiting to smother us all in a blanket of communism? That's the Obama Administration's "line" on Venezuela?

Talk about a vivid fantasy life. Are you in the second or third grade?

[McCamy Taylor]

7. Allegations that the U.S. arms paramilitary right wing death squads should be taken seriously: Me

[sabrina 1]

77. Yes, the CIA has been busy in Venezuela for a long time.

They failed to take out the elected president in 2002, but they're still trying.

[defendandprotect]

83. +1000% -- why would anyone believe any of this stuff -- simple warmongering . . .

to move one nation's assets to our control -- !!

And obviously we don't care how many people are blow up or blow away as long

as it gets done!!

[peacetalksforall]

9. Clinton and Obama are revealing themselves and I am furious.

I absolutely detest this constant barage against Venezuela.

I can only believe that it is an oil corporatist dictatorship and those two may not be honest about who they are representing.

I was furios about what they did to Honduras.

Bringing in advice from old Iran-Contra pros? Participating in and approving a coup?

This is not good. Not good. It's not good for me.

I will no longer vote if they touch Venezuela. Because it will be hopeless to vote.

But maybe they don't care whether I vote or not.

[mithnanthy]

14. I agree...

I'm disgusted how Venezuela is being treated by our Government.

[toppertwot]

49. Yo tambien!

Looks like Colombia with a little help from the CIA is trying to set up a deal so the US can attack Venezuela, and regain for the US Corporations the oil that Chavez took away from them. Chavez seems to think that the oil in Venezuela belongs to Venezeuela and not the US Corporations. How quaint - HUH??

[Ignis]

86. Welcome to DU.

:hi:

[Judi Lynn]

95. This info. might explain some of the constant barrage:financing Venezuelan journalists

who crank out this crap 24/7. This new information has been posted by both eridani and Wilms at D.U. earlier, and I ran across it in the last few days. You may find it useful:

Buying Venezuela's Press With U.S. Tax Dollars
Jeremy Bigwood Investigative reporter
Posted: July 19, 2010 01:28 PM

The U.S. State Department is secretly funneling millions of dollars to Latin American journalists, according to documents obtained in June under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). The 20 documents released to this author--including grant proposals, awards, and quarterly reports--show that between 2007 and 2009, the State Department's little-known Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor channeled at least $4 million to journalists in Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Venezuela through the Pan American Development Foundation (PADF), a Washington-based grant maker that has worked in Latin America since 1962. Thus far, only documents pertaining to Venezuela have been released. They reveal that the PADF, collaborating with Venezuelan NGOs associated with the country's political opposition, has been supplied with at least $700,000 to give out journalism grants and sponsor journalism education programs.

Until now, the State Department has hidden its role in funding the Venezuelan news media, one of the opposition's most powerful weapons against President Hugo Chavez and his Bolivarian movement. The PADF, serving as an intermediary, effectively removed the government's fingerprints from the money. Yet, as noted in a State Department document titled "Bureau/Program Specific Requirements," the State Department's own policies require that "all publications" funded by the department "acknowledge the support." But the provision was simply waived for the PADF. "For the purposes of this award," the requirements document adds, " . . . the recipient is not required to publicly acknowledge the support of the U.S. Department of State."

Before 2007, the largest funder of U.S. "democracy promotion" activities in Venezuela was not the State Department but the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), together with the National Endowment for Democracy (NED). But in 2005, these organizations' underhanded funding was exposed by Venezuelan American attorney Eva Golinger in a series of articles, books, and lectures (disclosure: This author obtained many of the documents). After the USAID and NED covers were blown wide open--forcing USAID's main intermediary, Development Alternatives Inc. (DAI), a Maryland-based contractor, to close its office in Caracas--the U.S. government apparently sought new funding channels, one of which the PADF appears to have provided.

Although the $700,000 allocated to the PADF, which is noted in the State Department's requirements document, may not seem like a lot of money, the funds have been strategically used to buy off the best of Venezuela's news media and recruit young journalists. This has been achieved by collaborating with opposition NGOs, many of which have a strong media focus. Venezuelan opposition, as recipients of "subgrants."

More:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeremy-bigwood/buying-venezuelas-press-w_b_650178.html

[howaboutme]

130. Not just them

I'd put them more as puppets to the corpora-fascist-bankster cabal that controls the USA government.

[frylock]

11. crank up that mighty wurlitzer

[Wilms]

12. I voted for this shit?

Keep the change.

[fascisthunter]

16. yes... side with the fascists of Colombia... how putrid and anti-progressive

[naaman fletcher]

176. Why must it be either/or?

Why can't one be against terrorists on both sides?

[trungpa ricochet]

17. More US arms to Colombia?

Mexican drugsters are killing people with US-made grenades supplied to the Contras and the Mano Blanca, both right-wing terrorists, some of whom were led by US-trained Fort Bragg assholes. 250,000 grenades were sent down there. Now they're on the black market. No doubt Obama is being advised to send more damned arms to Colombia, as if there weren't already too many there already. I applaud the Latin American leaders who have thrown off the Yankee meddlers. Some, like Chavez, use wild rhetoric and bizarre alliances, such as those with Iran, but they use the tools available and deserve autonomy. The Cold War is over. Reagan is dead. Latin America may very well become largely socialist. So fucking what? It's not the business of the US. There are oligarchies still long-ensconced that might need to be blasted away before they give up their stranglehold on the poor.

[peacetalksforall]

27. Every move to open up the stupidly closed minds in the US against Cuba is now a farce if they

are only moving the target of hate and future coup against Chavez and Venezuela.

Every opening to relations in Cuba should be scorned for the fakery of closing down on Venezuela in turn or in exchange. This is exactly like the former corporatists and the government targeted in on Chile and an assassination and rule by a despot. For ITT and the copper extractors. Now, it's oil and other rich minerals in the country of Venezuela home of the poor by decades of Hit Man successess with former Presidents. Nearly all the countries of Central America have been hit and Honduras was also about earth resources and military bases. We probably helped in the deaths of many who were dropped into the sea.

Is it starting all over again? Morales and Chavez. And we pretend we are friends?

[L0oniX]

18. Oh sure ...like I believe anything they fucking say anymore.

America = The Great Satan ...father of the lie.

[peacetalksforall]

30. Home of the Hit Man.

[Cleita]

23. Some people's terrorists are other people's freedom

fighters. Of course we are as usual propping up a fascist government in South America that we like because they don't interfere in what WE are doing in their country. USA has an abysmal record of propping up dictators and oppressive governments they like and squashing democracies that try to get independent of us. Of course it has worked so well in the past that the same American interests are trying to bring their brand of fascism home making us into a banana republic more to their liking.

[hack89]

25. Some peoples freedom fighters are other peoples drug smugglers

I don't think it is a coincidence that Venezuela has become the number one drug transshipment point in the region at the same time as the FARC has been pushed out of Colombia.

[Cleita]

28. The war on drugs is a farce. It's caused unnecessary

deaths in the countries involved. We need to deal with the drug problem here at home, not over there, because we are their biggest customers. Coca has alway been part of the Andean culture as well as the ceremonial use of other drugs for religious purposes. You take care of the drug problem here in the USA and you won't have drug cartels over there.

[EFerrari]

29. FARC has not been pushed out of Colombia

and Venezuela's interdictions have gone UP not down since they kicked out the corrupt DEA.

[hack89]

37. I think you need to read the UN 2010 report on drugs

it make it very clear that the drug situation in Venezuela is bad and has only gotten worst since Chavez has taken over.

http://www.unodc.org/documents/wdr/WDR_2010/World_Drug_Report_2010_lo-res.pdf

It is impossible to deny that FARC has been getting its ass kicked on a regular basis by the Colombian army. They have been thoroughly infiltrated, they have lost much territory, and the Colombian army routinely hunts in FARC territory. They are losing.

[EFerrari]

43. Maybe YOU better read that report.

The trafficking situation was deteriorating and that's why the DEA was kicked out and the ports nationalized. While they were in private hands, palms got crossed so their owners would look the other way.

Oh, and thanks for praising the Colombian army, one of the most corrupt and violent military organizations on the continent.

[hack89]

45. Things went to shit after DEA was kicked out in 2005

From the report:

The drug trafficking situation in the Bolivarian Republic
of Venezuela appears to be deteriorating. In 2008, the
Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela was fourth in the world
in annual cocaine seizures (34 mt), ahead of Peru and
the Plurinational State of Bolivia. According to the new
Maritime Analysis Operation Centre (MAOC-N), more
than half of all intercepted shipments in the Atlantic (67
incidents between 2006 and 2008) started their journey
in the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. Direct shipments
from Colombia, in contrast, accounted for just
5%.7 In addition, many undocumented air flights leave
the country, and all the clandestine air shipments of
cocaine detected in West Africa appear to have originated
in the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. The
country also appears to be the source of cocaine flown to
clandestine airstrips in Honduras, with devastating
effects there (discussed below).

At the same time, the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela
seems to be experiencing a remarkable upturn in criminal
violence. This trend is difficult to track because the
Venezuelan Government stopped publishing official
crime statistics after 2003, but some institutions continue
to monitor the issue.8

The murder rate in the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela
has increased markedly since the end of the Cold War,
but especially since the late 1990s. There may be many
reasons for this, but it happens to have occurred just as
Colombian illegal armed groups' involvement in the
cocaine trade began to pick up. There was a brief drop
after 2003, when Colombia began to reduce the size of
the illegal armed groups, followed by a resurgence afterwards.
Today, there are eight times as many murders as
there were two decades ago, and the murder rate per
100,000 population appears to be in the low 60s, among
the highest in the world. Kidnappings also appear to
have greatly increased, with the areas bordering Colombia
being among the worst affected.

I am not praising the Colombian army - simply pointing out a fact. Their brutality is a large part of why they are kicking the FARC's ass. The FARC and the Colombian army deserve each other - two corrupt and violent organizations. Unfortunately for the FARC the army has better training and weapons.

[peacetalksforall]

32. Provide your proof or at least one article from an acceptable source. .

[hack89]

39. Is the UN ok?

http://www.unodc.org/documents/wdr/WDR_2010/World_Drug_Report_2010_lo-res.pdf

The drug situation with associated violence is getting really bad in Venezuela. Funny enough, the drug situation in Colombia is getting much better.

[laughingliberal]

142. The drug situation here would get a lot better, too, if we just killed off anyone involved. nt

[hack89]

215. I don't think the FARC was all killed off

that's the problem. They simply moved to place more conducive to their line of business.

[laughingliberal]

255. BS. Forgive me if I don't take the word of a RW assassin who supports oligarchy against the word...

of a liberal leader who has stood up to the oligarchy on behalf of the poor. Our corporate media will denigrate anything that threatens the rule of wealthy corporate interests. Where Chavez is concerned, I take everything they say with pounds of salt.

The same corporate media who promoted the idea of a relatively weak public option in our HCR reform bill as a socialistic,'gummint takeover' of our health care system and gave massive air time to crazies talking about 'death panels' is going to provide fair and accurate coverage of a man who nationalized the greedy oil industry in his country?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[hack89]

256. Do you really think the FARC is not involved with drugs? nt

[laughingliberal]

257. I really think I don't take Uribe or the corporate ass-kissing media's word that Chavez is...

harboring them. But nice try.

[hack89]

258. But why not?

he says they are not terrorists, that their purpose is "Bolivarian" and that he "respects" them. He doesn't seem to have any reason to not welcome and support them.

[ProudDad]

38. Links?`

Didn't think so since it's a biased, non-indicative straw man... :eyes:

I have some though...

UN lauds Venezuela's achievements on fighting drug trafficking
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4441675

Venezuela Holds the Line on Drug Trafficking
http://www.counterpunch.org/garcia06132006.html

CIA Factbook:
"small-scale illicit producer of opium and coca for the processing of opiates and coca derivatives; however, large quantities of cocaine, heroin, and marijuana transit the country from Colombia bound for US and Europe; significant narcotics-related money-laundering activity, especially along the border with Colombia and on Margarita Island; active eradication program primarily targeting opium; increasing signs of drug-related activities by Colombian insurgents on border"

TRANSIT the country -- nothing about the Venezuelan government doing ANY of that... As for the money laundering in Venezuela, that would be the folks who helped perpetrate the U.S. financed and supported coup of 2002... Just as the drug launderers here in USAmerica are the ones who benefited from the bank bailouts...

--------------------------------------------

The Great Satan and its imitators in Europe are the REAL causes of this stuff. End the criminalization of what people have been doing forever, end the phony "war on drugs(tm)" and this shit would end!

[hack89]

40. Delete - dupe. nt

[hack89]

41. Shall we look at the 2010 UN report on drugs?

Search on Venezula in the document for an education. Here are some samples:

Between 2006 and 2008, over half the maritime shipments
of cocaine to Europe detected came from the
Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. Ecuador has also been
affected by an increase in transit trafficking, and both
countries are experiencing increasing problems with
violence.

The drug trafficking situation in the Bolivarian Republic
of Venezuela appears to be deteriorating. In 2008, the
Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela was fourth in the world
in annual cocaine seizures (34 mt), ahead of Peru and
the Plurinational State of Bolivia. According to the new
Maritime Analysis Operation Centre (MAOC-N), more
than half of all intercepted shipments in the Atlantic (67
incidents between 2006 and 2008) started their journey
in the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. Direct shipments
from Colombia, in contrast, accounted for just
5%.7 In addition, many undocumented air flights leave
the country, and all the clandestine air shipments of
cocaine detected in West Africa appear to have originated
in the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. The
country also appears to be the source of cocaine flown to
clandestine airstrips in Honduras, with devastating
effects there (discussed below).

At the same time, the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela
seems to be experiencing a remarkable upturn in criminal
violence. This trend is difficult to track because the
Venezuelan Government stopped publishing official
crime statistics after 2003, but some institutions continue
to monitor the issue.8

The murder rate in the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela
has increased markedly since the end of the Cold War,
but especially since the late 1990s. There may be many
reasons for this, but it happens to have occurred just as
Colombian illegal armed groups' involvement in the
cocaine trade began to pick up. There was a brief drop
after 2003, when Colombia began to reduce the size of
the illegal armed groups, followed by a resurgence afterwards.
Today, there are eight times as many murders as
there were two decades ago, and the murder rate per
100,000 population appears to be in the low 60s, among
the highest in the world. Kidnappings also appear to
have greatly increased, with the areas bordering Colombia
being among the worst affected.

http://www.unodc.org/documents/wdr/WDR_2010/World_Drug_Report_2010_lo-res.pdf

[ProudDad]

47. The "country" is certainly NOT the "Government"

And definitely NOT the president..

But thanks for the irrelevant attempt at a straw man... :eyes:

[hack89]

48. I was talking about the FARC

that is what the OP is about, right? The FARC is a big player in narcotics. They are being pushed out of Colombia. The UN documents a decline in drug shipments from Colombia and a large increase in neighboring countries including Venezuela.

I don't know what Chavez's role is - he did have this to say about FARC so it is clear that he has some affinity for them:

He added that the two groups' "insurgent forces" have a goal, "a project," that is "Bolivarian" and that "we respect."

So why is it so hard to believe that the FARC would be welcomed in Venezuela?

[ProudDad]

71. "why is it so hard to believe that the FARC would be welcomed in Venezuela?"

It's not...

Although, I'm certain that President Chavez would argue against their violent tactics. Chavez (on his 2nd attempt) came to power peacefully...

But, in order to rattle the sabers against Venezuela, the USAmerikan Empire is shoveling a hell of a lot of money (and military might) into the project of propping up their puppet in Columbia with the side benefit of keeping the phony "war on drugs(tm)" running hot...

[EFerrari]

44. Venezuela Better Off without DEA Says Vice President

snip

Carrizalez showed the press how before cooperation with the DEA formally ended in August 2005, between 2001 to 2004, 153 tons of different types of drugs were seized, while between 2005 to 2008-while there was no cooperation-250 tons were seized. With cocaine in particular, 94 tons were seized during the first period, and 162 in the second. The statistics Carrizalez used came from the United Nations and the Colombian Army, among others.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/4350

And right there is another reason Venezuela has to be demonized. They're interfering with business as usual.

[boppers]

89. Emphasizing is fun!

What was the OP about? oh, yeah:

CIA Factbook:
"small-scale illicit producer of opium and coca for the processing of opiates and coca derivatives; however, large quantities of cocaine, heroin, and marijuana transit the country from Colombia bound for US and Europe; significant narcotics-related money-laundering activity, especially along the border with Colombia and on Margarita Island; active eradication program primarily targeting opium; increasing signs of drug-related activities by Colombian insurgents on border"

[sabrina 1]

78. You're easily fooled. And btw, what business is it

of yours or ours, if there are drugs in some other country? I think they should all be legalized. The Drug War is a scam on the American people.

I don't think it's a coincidence that there are drugs in Venezuela either. I think it's the CIA up to their old tricks. Or you are really not aware of Reagan's secret war in Central America and the drug-running by the U.S. ?

We love drugs, they are an easy way to fund a secret war and to destabalize countries who are not being cooperative with us regarding handing over their resources. Seriously, you really aren't fallin for this all over again, are you?

[hack89]

94. Drugs are not the point - the presence of the FARC is

why is it so hard to believe that the FARC is not welcomed in Venezuela? Chavez does not think they are terrorist - he feels that they are a legitimate army fighting for freedom. Supporting them is nothing to be ashamed of, right?

[sabrina 1]

112. I am asking againl. What business is it of yours or of this

government's? Do you live there?

How about genocide? Do you support Genocide? And if not, how do you feel about this country siding with Uribe in Colombia who has a history of killing his own people? Why are we not siding with the country that has a leader who was elected fairly and has no such history?

And why are we supporting Karamov in Uzbekistan, a man who tortures and kills HIS own people?

Why exactly are we always on the wrong side with these countries and then why do some Americans believe the lies they are told without knowing anything about what's going on?

I had hoped our policies in South America which are horrendous, equally as bad as they are in the ME, would change under this administration, but they have not.

We are in NO position to criticize anyone else. We harbor and support the worst killers and dictators in the world, and we have been responsible for the deaths of untold numbers of people and also torture and disappearances.

I for one will never enable those policies. You go ahead if your conscience doesn't bother you and blindly believe everything they till you.

[hack89]

118. Is your hair shirt tailor made?

why does criticism of Venezuela automatically mean support of Colombia? Here's a clue - both countries are fucked up.

You honestly believe that because America does fucked up things I can't comment on other countries? Really?

[sabrina 1]

123. Sure you can comment, but if you want to be taken

seriously, you need to back up your comments with facts.

"both countries are fucked up" ~ so is this one.

There are vast differences between Colombia and Venezuela. Maybe one day you'll take the trouble learn what they are.

The U.S. wants Venezuela's oil. The U.S. wanted Iraq's oil and a pipeline in Afghanistan. So when the U.S. want's something other countries have, they lie and kill to get it.

If Venezuela had no oil, we would never hear or care about them.

The U.S. spends vast amounts of money to push propaganda to get the American people ready for whatever they decide they 'have to do' to get that oil under their control.

They spent over #300,000,000 on propaganda before illegally invading Iraq. It worked.

The money they are now spending on propaganda against Venezuela, WILL work if we let it. It is working to an extent.

Why do I care? Because I know what the intentions of the U.S. in Venezuela are. It isn't about Venezuela, it is about THIS country and its criminal backing of coup d'etats and invasions of other countries.

I can't stop it, but I won't support it either. And some day when history records this terrible, brutal period of our history, I'd like future generations to know that not ALL of us blindly supported the genocide of people of other nations.

If that's wearing a hair shirt, I would wear it proudly. Principles matter.

[hack89]

127. The topic is the FARC

and Chavez's alleged support of it.

The FARC is a group of murderous thugs who are major players in the regions drug trafficking. If Colombia is correct and they are finding safe harbor in Venezuela then don't you agree that it is a huge problem?

We get all the Venezuelan oil we can get - there are good reasons why we are their biggest customer with 60% of their crude coming to the US. We don't need to invade.

[sabrina 1]

144. No, the topic is this country's foreign policy. They want YOU

to think it's about FARC. What does FARC in Colombia or Venezuela have to do with the U.S.? It doesn't, we HIRE terrorists, like the Colombian government when it suits the goals of this country. Death squads remember? In Iraq too. If the formula works, why change it?

And every time an American citizen allows themselves to be distracted and fooled by the propaganda, we get closer to another U.S. backed coup and/or illegal invasion.

See elsewhere in this thread. The U.S. government is funding this propaganda as they funded the WMD propaganda in Iraq.

Support it if you wish, but don't say, as many former Iraq War supporters are trying to say now 'we didn't know, we believed them'.

I had this exact same argument with Rightwing supporters of Bush's propaganda with the assistance of the U.S media, before the War in Iraq.

[hack89]

213. Boy - you are a piece of work. Bye. nt

[sabrina 1]

233. Thank you. I do work to understand what is going on in the world

I'm not particularly fond of Genocidal killers being allies of this country. Clearly you don't much care about such things.

Uribe and his criminal enablers thank you for your support ... 'bye to you too.

[Judi Lynn]

188. All the noise about FARCs and drugs is fool's play, a diversion from the truth

which is that the PARAMILITARIES in Colombia, and their collaborators in the local governments, the police, the military, all the way up to the Colombian Senate and the President's cabinet, and even the President's FAMILY control the heavy drug business in Colombia, always have, always will.

Any drool to the contrary is pure camoflage, distraction for the truth.

Just found an interesting bit of information pointing to some facts of the Colombian drug trade:

31Jul04
En Español
Em Português

Salvatore Mancuso's appearance before the Colombian Parliament is a milestone in the control of the state by organized crime.

~snip~
Alvaro Uribe Vélez, the President of Colombia, and his Vice-President, Pacho Santos, are in charge of the largest operation to legitimize a criminal mafia organization to have taken place in recent years.

To understand exactly what that means, we describe here the profile of five of the negotiators of the so-called AUC (United Self-Defence Forces of Colombia). In the case of every one of them there are formal charges pending involving the running of drug-dealing organizations.

These organizations are responsible for the production of over 90% of the cocaine sold world-wide.

They are also responsible for 65% of the heroin sent to the United States.

~snip~
It is unthinkable that the Government of Uribe Vélez could have fostered the relationship between politics and organized crime - almost to the point of no return - without the support of the CIA and the Department of State.

Given this background, the position of two former Spanish presidents who visited Bogotá in a clear show of support for the presidency of Uribe Vélez is shameful.

More:
http://www.derechos.org/nizkor/colombia/doc/narcoseng.html

~~~~
Any serious search will lead to the awareness the right-wing paras ARE in control of the vast majority of ALL drug trafficking in Colombia.

The idiotic claims the rebels are running the show are pathetic, yet that claim is maintained in order to provide cover for US presence in Colombia which is much more concerned about control of Latin America, and the use of Colombia as a base from which to launch spying, and any other actions, covert or otherwise deemed in the interests of the most powerful country on earth against the countries which are weary, and furious about the violent abuse they have suffered at the hands of US-controlled right-wing corruptible tyrants.

[pattmarty]

98. Jesusfuckingchrist! Enough with the fucking drug "war" propaganda...

....This "war" has been lost since the fucking 80's. Do you have any fucking idea how much we have spent on this (largely) propaganda war since it's inception in the 70's?

[hack89]

119. You mean UN propaganda?

because the 2010 UN report on drugs is where that information comes from.

I actually agree the drug war is evil and should be ended with legalization. The corruption and violence in SA, including Colombia and Venezuela, is reason enough in my opinion.

[pattmarty]

120. I personally don't give a fuck about any UN report. Just look at storeis....

.......since this ill advised "war" started in the 70's. There has been MASSIVE corruption, waste and innocent lives lost and ruined by this fucked-up tragedy. END IT YESTERDAY.

[laughingliberal]

146. That's how I see it. nt

[defendandprotect]

84. All too sadly true -- 1000% --

[IndianaGreen]

31. I thought John Bolton left the State Department when Bush left office

I suppose that Bush's policies remain in place, only the nameplates change.

[peacetalksforall]

33. Cheney and Rumsfeld - still attending the meetings. Remember, the first days of this

administration when we heard that there would be holdover staff from the Cheney-Rumsfeld administration?

[laughingliberal]

147. AFAICS, our horrible policies in LA are static regardless of who we elect. nt

[EFerrari]

34. It's always nice to see the State Department side witth the mass murders

they've armed and funded.

[defendandprotect]

85. The pace of all of this hasn't slowed down since Bush left office . . .

obviously, policy hasn't changed --

in fact, at times, the pace seems to be picking up -- !! ??

[IndianaGreen]

106. American oligarchs were upset that Bush allowed Latin America to get away

Now they are relying on Obama, a man that can sell anything to his gullible fans, including imperialism and death squads, to restore American hegemony in this continent.

[defendandprotect]

124. I hope we're both wrong . . .

[naaman fletcher]

129. The US has sided with FARC? nt

[laughingliberal]

148. The US sides with Uribe, AKA Pinochet all over again. nt

[naaman fletcher]

150. Really?

Uribe overthrew a government and created a dictatorship? Good to know. Do you know that Uribe is in fact very popular in Colombia, and that violence has plummeted during his elected terms?

Now, don't get me wrong, I think Uribe is scum overall, but there is no point in silly comparisons like yours.

[laughingliberal]

170. I don't care for his policy of assasination of leftists. * was very popular here for some time.

I guess that would have justified it if he decided to just start taking out all the opposition on the left.

Funny, Chavez was elected, too. But that doesn't stop many here from cheering on our efforts to depose him.

[naaman fletcher]

173. I don't care for that either

but he is hardly pinochet, and it is Chavez who is wagging the dog with the war talk.

[laughingliberal]

191. I do not see Chavez as 'wagging the dog.' I see us and Uribe waging the same kind of propaganda

war against Chavez as was waged against Saddam to justify our invasion of Iraq. Our CIA has participated in one failed coup against him and we're building military bases in Columbia now supporting the murderous assasin, Uribe. He has every reason not to trust us. We support the oligarchs. They run our country and they're pissed that there's a leader of an oil rich country who won't tolerate their shit.

[naaman fletcher]

196. Uribe has two weeks left..

And he is going out on a wave of popularity. He has no reason to do any of this. Chavez on the other hand has low popularity and his economy is struggling. He is every incentive to invent a foreign bogey man. It seems that your reasoning is based mostly on an initial bias that the US is bad and that by extension anyone who is anti-u.s. must be good. but I could be wrong.

[laughingliberal]

235. A lot of our presidents still meddle in politics after leaving office.

And Chaves is only unpopular with the oligarchs. He won his last election with 62% of the vote.

Our policies in Latin America have been to support the right wing corporatists, yes. I am suspect of anyone we are supporting there. We have consistently participated in the destabilization of liberal governments in the region in favor of right wingers. Chavez has helped cut poverty immensely in that country. The same pigs who squeal every time anyone here wants to help the poor are the ones squealing about it,there. Of course if the top 1% is controlling most of the wealth, they aren't going to like anyone who tries to rectify that. Too bad we have no elected officials who are willing to stand up to our oligarchs.

[sabrina 1]

231. Don't care for it? He is a human rights violator who has been

sanitized by the Bush administration in return for doing what the U.S. wants him to do.

I would expect a stronger reaction to human rights violations, at least from the left. But something really bad is happening in this country. It isn't just the right anymore who ignores the brutality of our favorite dictators, now it is seen more and more on the left.

I used to wonder how Germany happened, how a whole country could close their eyes to the suffering of the victims of their government. I don't wonder about it anymore. It is happening right here in this country today. People have been brutally killed in Colombia, bodies buried in mass graves, people tortured and disappeared. But THAT is the government we are allied with. No such crimes have ever been attributed to the current government of Venezuela, yet they are considered the enemy. They always were to the far right, but now it is really disturbing to see it happen on the left.

Sometimes I don't think there is much hope for this country. Always on the side of the worst human rights violators. We used to think we were the good guys who come to the defense of those who were being oppressed. I guess we need to face it, we ARE the bad guys, to so many, many people around the world.

[JVS]

225. And people say there's no loyalty these days!

[peacetalksforall]

35. The drums against Iran, Venezuela, Bolivia.

[laughingliberal]

152. Of course. If you want endless war, you have to line continually line up your next targets. nt

[tiny elvis]

36. whatevs

AFP

Chavez strongly denied Bogota's charge, saying his army pursued any Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) and National Liberation Army (ELN) insurgents in Venezuela.

He also accused Uribe -- who hands over the Colombian presidency in two weeks to his former defense minister -- of wanting to use the pretext of rebel camps "to attack us and cause a war."

vivahugo.com

The Venezuelan army verified and thoroughly inspected the locations and coordinates provided by the Uribe administration on Thursday and found none of the alleged “terrorist sites”, “camps” or “guerrilla presence” claimed by Colombia.

Upon arriving at the first coordinate indicated in Colombia’s report, identified as an alleged terrorist camp of alias Ruben Zamora, the Venezuelan army found a farm growing plantains, yucca and corn. The second coordinate, which was the alleged camp of FARC commander Ivan Marquez, was merely an extensive field with no structures or presence of anyone or anything.

During his two-hour long flamboyant presentation, Hoyos called for “international intervention” in Venezuela to verify the campsites and gave Venezuela a “30-day ultimatum”.

“Colombia requests a commission of international members, including all those of the OAS, go to Venezuela and verify each of the terrorist camp sites and coordinates to see the truth”, said Hoyos, adding, “we give the Venezuelan government 30 days”, although he didn’t specify what could happen afterward.

Hoyos also accused the Venezuelan government of facilitating drug trafficking, money laundering, illegal arms trade, attacks against Colombian armed forces and even went so far as to allege the Chavez government “squashes its opposition”, “represses freedom of expression”, “insults other governments” and “violates principles of democracy”.

At the same time, Hoyos said his government would be unwilling to listen to or respond to any accusations, insults or offenses made by the Venezuelan government.

http://www.chavezcode.com/
hoyos sounds unreasonable

bbc

However, it is Juan Manuel Santos - due to be sworn in as Colombia's new president on 7 August - who will have to handle the fallout from this latest dispute, he adds.

Mr Santos has previously indicated he would like to improve relations with Venezuela.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-10723412
santos must reassess

[CJvR]

55. Why not?

Why not buss out a load of reporters and diplomats to have a look at these supposed FARC camps and prove that there are nothing in the reports? Nice way to give Colombia a huge black eye on the world stage. But NO, instead we get this latest temper tantrum which is starting to remind me of Little Kim (the world's only fat North Korean). It is hard not to draw the conclution that the Colombian accusations were uncomfortably close to the truth.

[Judi Lynn]

59. Buss them out? Really? To see what? A possible collection of cigarette butts,

candy bar wrappers, what?

How would that prove there were any FARCs there?

Instead, why don't they bus them to the ranch owned by Cuban-Venezuelan opposition leader, originator of the violent protests by opposition clowns, called "guarimbas," Roberto Alonso's ranch Daktari, and show the reporters where the Venezuelan government found, after a tipoff from a neighbor, the community of quanset huts used by over 100 Colombian paralitaries, some of them former Colombian soldiers who were hired by Venezuelan right-wing opposition to break into a national guard armory, steal enough rifles to arm 1,400 men, and invade Miraflores, and kill Hugo Chavez, as they testified to Venezuelan officials?

THAT'S what you'd want to bus reporters to see, however, the U.S. corporate media wouldn't consider even running it. They certainly didn't bother when it happened.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com.nyud.net:8090/images/2004/05/paramilitares-baruta5.jpg

The paramilitaries were wearing Venezuela military uniforms.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com.nyud.net:8090/images/2004/05/paramilitares-baruta-barracas2.jpg

Barracs at the property of opposition activist
Robert Alonso where Colmbian paramilitaries
lived for 46 days

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com.nyud.net:8090/images/2004/05/paramilitares-baruta2.jpg

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com.nyud.net:8090/images/2004/05/paramilitares-baruta.jpg

71 of the paramilitaries have been captured so far.
The Venezuelan Government assured that the detainees’
Human Rights will be fully respected.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com.nyud.net:8090/images/2004/05/paramilitares-baruta-barracas.jpg

Venezuelan military officer searches the farm of
opposition political leader Robert Alonso.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com.nyud.net:8090/images/2004/05/paramilitares-barracas.jpg

Barracs at the property of opposition activist Robert Alonso
located in the outskirts of Caracas. Colombian paramilitaries
lived there for 46 days in preparation for attacks on military bases.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com.nyud.net:8090/images/2004/05/paramilitares-cadaver2.jpg

Authorities uncovered the remains of a man believed to
be killed by the leaders of the paramilitary group.
Colombian paramilitaries: A sub-command group of 20 people served as slave
Published: Tuesday, May 18, 2004
Bylined to: Philip Stinard


Colombian paramilitaries: A sub-command group of 20 people served as slaves

Panorama (Maracaibo) reports: Commissioner David Colmenares, head of investigations for DISIP, told Panorama by telephone that to date, 122 irregulars have been detained, as well as eight officers active in the Air Force and Armed Forces of Venezuela, in the case of the Colombian paramilitaries captured in Venezuela.

Click here for the original Spanish text

“We’re analyzing telephone evidence and witnesses’ testimony. We can say that there are a number of prisoners, minors, people who once they were baited with a ‘real’ reason to go, were then forcibly taken to Venezuela. Some of them were deceived into going to Venezuela.”



Colmenares explained, “One of these youths stated on a TV channel that they had brought him here to Venezuela, and had gotten him an ID to vote for President Chavez, but that is totally contradictory. How are you going to believe that Robert Alonso, an anti-Chavez and anti-Castro extremist, is going to bring someone here to vote for Chavez? Undoubtedly, they deceived this young man.”

The head of DISIP continued, “At least 20 were deceived. They were held as slaves. We’ve determined that they weren’t in Group A, rather in a group that they vulgarly called ‘The Gonorrhea’…. They were kept for domestic labor, always watched by others so they wouldn’t try to escape.”

It’s thought that the person whose cadaver was found was part of this sub command group.

more

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=562085&mesg_id=563712

~~~~~
Video:

Colombian contract killer detailing an alleged $25 million plot to kill Hugo Chavez

Run time: 02:22
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc5rYMIyFDs

Posted on YouTube: September 26, 2009
By YouTube Member:
Views on YouTube: 0

Posted on DU: September 26, 2009
By DU Member: Joanne98
Views on DU: 779

Al Jazeera has obtained exclusive footage of a Colombian contract killer detailing an alleged $25 million plot to kill Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelan president.

Geovanny Velasquez Zambrano says the money was offered by Manuel Rosales, one of Chavez's main political rivals, during a secret meeting in 1999.

A Colombian paramilitary group took up the offer, according to Zambrano.

Chavez has long said there is a plot by Colombia to kill him, and relations between the two countries are tense.

Francisco Dominguez, head of the Centre of Brazil and Latin American Studies at UK's Middlesex University, told Al Jazeera that so far, it has been impossible for Chavez's opponents to bring him down by political means.

"He's very popular. He's lost one of 16 elections only. So if anyone is desperate to get rid of him, the
one neat mechanism to get rid of him would be assassination," Dominquez said.

"Chavez is pretty justified in thinking this guy's claims were credible. It is credible that Rosales could have offered $25 million."

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x378448#378465

Comment from U.S. American D.U. living in Venezuela, posted on the above thread:

justinaforjustice (464 posts) Sat Sep-26-09 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Many Colombian Paramilitaries in Venezuela.

Within the past two years while I have been living in Venezuela, there have been several news stories about raids on houses and apartments around Caracas and in Zulia State (where Manuel Rosales was formerly governor) in which groups of Colombian paramilitaries, armed with sophisticated weapons, have been arrested. Some news reports suggested that they were in Venezuela to assassinate President Chavez, but never has there been such a clear connection reported between Rosales and the assassination plans.

It is highly likely that funds from the U.S.'s "Plan Colombia" have supported these efforts. Now President Obama plans to finance 7 new U.S. military bases in Colombia, yet another threat to the Chavez government. How dare the U.S. complain that Venezuela is augmenting its military forces, when it is the U.S. and its Colombia puppet, Uribe, that is actively working to destabilize the democratically elected Chavez government. The U.S. military budget is over 800 billion dollars a year, and that is only the publicly revealed figure, not the money hidden in other federal department's budgets. Venezuela's military budget is around 5 billion, a fraction of the U.S.''s, and less than Brazil, Chile and Colombia.

~~~~~
AFTER THE CAPTURE OF THE SCUM PARAMILITARIES:

Venezuela frees Colombian prisoners
Posted 9/1/2007 8:35 PM |
By Howard Yanes, Associated Press Writer

http://images.usatoday.com.nyud.net:8090/Wires2Web/20070901/434845792_Venezuela_Colombia_Prisonersx.jpg

Three Colombian prisoners, arrested
three years ago in an alleged plot
against the Venezuelan government,
wait at a military base in San Antonio,
Venezuela, Saturday, Sept. 1, 2007,
after being pardoned by President Hugo
Chavez. The 27 prisoners, who were
freed Saturday, were among more than
100 Colombians arrested in 2004 on
accusations of plotting to destabilize
the government and assassinate President
Chavez. (AP Photo/Howard Yanes)

SAN ANTONIO, Venezuela — More than two dozen Colombian prisoners arrested three years ago in an alleged plot against President Hugo Chavez were freed Saturday in a goodwill gesture he hopes will help facilitate a prisoner exchange in Colombia.
The 27 Colombians who boarded a bus to return home after being pardoned by Chavez were among more than 100 men arrested three years ago on accusations of plotting to stage a rebellion and assassinate the Venezuelan leader.

In a speech in Caracas, Chavez said he expects to meet soon with a high-ranking representative of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, to arrange a possible exchange of hundreds imprisoned guerrillas for about 45 prominent rebel-held hostages.

Among those being held by the rebels are three U.S. defense contractors and former presidential candidate Ingrid Betancourt, a French-Colombian citizen.

The Colombian government and the FARC have voiced support in principle for the swap but have long argued about how to achieve it.

Chavez acknowledged stepping into a difficult role, but said he hopes to eventually "move toward a peace accord in Colombia."

More:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/topstories/2007-09-01-434845792_x.htm

[Judi Lynn]

62. By the way, I have to wonder why the Colombian paras caught in Venezuela

were covering their faces in the last photo. Do you think they were just really bashful?

[Judi Lynn]

63. Why not "buss" out reporters to see some of the mass graves in Colombia we've discussed here?

In Colombia appears a mass grave containing 2,000 bodies
The unidentified bodies have been deposited by the Army since 2005


Relatives of a missing person whose body was found in a mass grave bring its remains in a coach - AFP -

ANTONIO ALBIÑANA - Bogotá - 26/01/2010 00:05

In the small town of La Macarena, Meta, 200 kilometers south of Bogota, one of the hottest areas of the Colombian conflict is the largest mass grave discovered in the recent history of Latin America, with a number of bodies "NN " buried without identification, which could reach 2,000, according to various sources and the residents themselves. Since 2005,the Army whose elite forces are deployed in the vicinity has been burying behind the local cemetery hundreds of bodies with the order that they would be buried without any name.

This is the largest burial of victims of a conflict known until now in the continent. We should have to move to the Nazi Holocaust or the barbarity of Pol Pot in Cambodia to find something of this dimension.

Behind the cemetery of La Macarena, 200 km. Bogota, thousands of bodies were buried without name.

The lawyer Jairo Ramirez is the secretary of the Permanent Committee for the Defense of Human Rights in Colombia and accompanied a delegation of British parliamentarians to the site, when a few weeks ago,he began to discover the magnitude of the grave of La Macarena. "What we saw was terrifying," he told public. "Countless bodies, and hundreds of plates of white wood on the surface with NN and registration dates from 2005 until today."

Missing

Ramirez adds, "Army Commander told us they were guerrillas killed in combat, but the people of the region speak of many community leaders, farmers and community advocates who disappeared without a trace."

While prosecutors announced investigations "from March" after the parliamentary and presidential elections, a parliamentary delegation composed by Jordi Pedret Spanish (PSOE), Inés Sabanés (UI), Francesc Canet (ERC), Joan-Josep Nuet (IC - EU), Carles Campuzano (CiU), Mikel Basabe (Aralar) and Marian Suarez (Eivissa pel Canvi) arrived yesterday in Colombia to study the case and make a report to the Congress and the Parliament. The situation of women as the first victims of conflict and union leaders (only in 2009 were kil

More than a thousand graves in the country

More:
http://www.comitepermanente.org/english/in_colombia_appears_a_mass_grave_containing_2000_b.html

~~~~~
Dan KovalikHuman and Labor Rights Lawyer
Posted: April 1, 2010 09:22 AM

U.S. and Colombia Cover Up Atrocities Through Mass Graves

The biggest human rights scandal in years is developing in Colombia, though you wouldn't notice it from the total lack of media coverage here. The largest mass grave unearthed in Colombia was discovered by accident last year just outside a Colombian Army base in La Macarena, a rural municipality located in the Department of Meta just south of Bogota. The grave was discovered when children drank from a nearby stream and started to become seriously ill. These illnesses were traced to runoff from what was discovered to be a mass grave -- a grave marked only with small flags showing the dates (between 2002 and 2009) on which the bodies were buried.

According to a February 10, 2010 letter issued by Alexandra Valencia Molina, Director of the regional office of Colombia's own Procuraduria General de la Nacion -- a government agency tasked to investigate government corruption -- approximately 2,000 bodies are buried in this grave. The Colombian Army has admitted responsibility for the grave, claiming to have killed and buried alleged guerillas there. However, the bodies in the grave have yet to be identified. Instead, against all protocol for handling the remains of anyone killed by the military, especially those of guerillas, the bodies contained in the mass grave were buried there secretly without the requisite process of having the Colombian government certify that the deceased were indeed the armed combatants the Army claims.

And, given the current "false positive" scandal which has enveloped the government of President Alvaro Uribe and his Defense Minister, Juan Manuel Santos, who is now running to succeed Uribe as President, the Colombian Army's claim about the mass grave is especially suspect. This scandal revolves around the Colombian military, most recently under the direction of Juan Manuel Santos, knowingly murdering civilians in cold blood and then dressing them up to look like armed guerillas in order to justify more aid from the United States. According to the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Navi Pilay, this practice has been so "systematic and widespread" as to amount to a "crime against humanity." And sadly, when Ms. Pilay made this statement, she literally did not know the half of it.

To date, not factoring in the mass grave, it has been confirmed by Colombian government sources that 2,000 civilians have fallen victim to the "false positive" scheme since President Uribe took office in 2002. If, as suspected by Colombian human rights groups, such as the "Comision de Derechos Humanos del Bajo Ariari" and the "Colectivo Orlando Fals Borda," the mass grave in La Macarena contains 2,000 more civilian victims of this scheme, then this would bring the total of those victimized by the "false positive" scandal to at least 4,000 --much worse than originally believed.

That this grave was discovered just outside a Colombian military base overseen by U.S. military advisers -- the U.S. having around 600 military advisers in that country -- is especially troubling, and raises serious questions about the U.S.'s own conduct in that country. In addition, this calls into even greater question the propriety of President Obama's agreement with President Alvaro Uribe last summer to grant the U.S. access to 7 military bases in that country.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-kovalik/us-colombia-cover-up-atro_b_521402.html

or http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25129.htm

or other sources.....

[CJvR]

65. That was a long way of saying...

...well, nothing really.

[Judi Lynn]

66. Familiarize yourself with the material, anyway. It won't hurt you to know something

about the countries you attempt to discuss.

[CJvR]

67. I did look through it,

briefly.

Didn't see what any of it had to do with Venezuela discrediting the supposed evidence presented by Colombia. If there indeed is nothing to the Colombian charges and proofs then showing this fact to international observers and media seems a far more rational reaction than cutting diplomatic relations and raising the military preparedness and generally acting guilty.

Don't you agree?

[Judi Lynn]

68. Colombia is the country which has personel going into Venezuela to KILL the President there,

as learned through multiple confessions by captured Colombian former soldiers, paramilitaries.

We do NOT learn of going into Colombia to kill Uribe.

We also have learned of Colombian paras going into Venezuela as they have for YEARS for the Venezuelan landowners, opposition to kill various OTHER political figures, and Venezuelan campesinos. That much has been known for ages.

The Venezuelan government, with the U.S. doing illegal fly-overs, and satellite spying, and Colombia breathing down its neck 24/7, does NOT welcome FARCS.

FARCs are manufactured in the production of "false positives" by the Colombian government as you SHOULD know, if you have been sober for the last few years, in inflating the APPEARANCE of many FARCs by dressing dead Colombian men they have killed as FARCs, and adding them to their kill numbers.

The mass graves in which they have tried to hide the evidence of murdered COLOMBIANS is clearly relative, as they have murdered, suppressed, driven from their own homes MILLIONS of Colombian citizens.

The nation at war with the poor is NOT Venezuela.

I've got to leave, busy, try your feeble games on someone else, if you dare.

[CJvR]

72. Another long list of non-replies.

One would think after all that crap you list that Venezuela would leap at the oppertunity to completly deflate the Colombian claims before the world and give Uribe a final black eye before he leaves office. But no, instead we get a temper tantrum worthy of Little Kim himself.

[Arctic Dave]

75. A tantrum worthy of Kim.

Seems Uribe is doing a distract and run with the plundered bounty before anyone notices like a well trained magician.

[CJvR]

92. If he does...

...he could not have found a better dupe than Chavez it seems.

[naaman fletcher]

175. Uribe is?

Who has severed relations and ordered the military to the border?

[naaman fletcher]

177. evidence?

So pictures and satellite coordinates are not evidence for you, but random stories with neo backing are?

Why don't you just say "I believe all stories that are pro-chavez and his allies, and disbelieve all stories that are anti-chavez and his allies". That is obviously your position. Saying that would save a lot of bandwidth here.

[Judi Lynn]

189. Random stories? Really? What has kept you oblivious to the accounts

and news reports of paras caught in Venezuela in groups, one as large as well over 100, posted here at D.U. already?

You chose to not do any of your own homework, so apparently looking for information on your own is beyond you, but we have had a flow of information RIGHT HERE concerning paras, including former Colombian soldiers being caught in Venezuela, along with their TESTIMONIES of being hired in Colombia, brought to Venezuela to break into the national guard armory there to steal arms for 1,400 men, to invade Miraflores, kill the President, people staying in rows of quonset huts outside Caracas, with PHOTOS of them being rounded up, sitting around as captives, hiding their faces.....

We have had stories of the massive PROTEST in the streets of Caracas to the discovery of the group of assassins on the ranch of opposition figure, Cuban "exile" Roberto Alonso.

We have had stories on Hugo Chavez allowing over 40 of them to return home, after they served some time. This has been going on for years.

Don't remain helpless. Start using your time to become INFORMED just as the rest of us must who ARE serious people.

[naaman fletcher]

190. I apologize, I really haven't seen them. I would appreciate a link,

particularly to the one posted recently.

[Judi Lynn]

203. You don't get to do that. You don't pick nd choose which posts you will acknowledge,

and claim you've never seen the others.

If you don't know, get off your ass and look it up.

There's clearly a post, #59 on this thread with damned good photos of a well known arrest of over 100 paras from Colombia, in Venezuela who testied to being there as employees of Venezuelan opposition members, brought there to kill Hugo Chavez.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4475822&mesg_id=4476385

[naaman fletcher]

205. I'm not asking to pick and choose, quite the contrary I am asking to be informed.

nt

[naaman fletcher]

207. Your evidence does not support your claim.

The link that you posted says that Venezuela right wingers hired these guys. I was challenging your assertion that Colombia sent asassination squads. Please post some evidence of that.

[Judi Lynn]

212. I said "Colombia is the country which has personel going into Venezuela to KILL the President there"

I did NOT say the Colombian government officially sent a large contigent of assassins to kill Chavez.

The personel consisted of paras, a part of whom were former Colombian soldiers.

As has been stated endlessly by human rights organizations, the paras are to be considered an adjunct to the Colombian military due to the fact they cooperate, have even done massacres together, and Colombian military officers have even been known to switch out of their military uniforms and personally involve themselves, along with other Colombian military, in the massacres of small villages. This has been a matter of record, since one of the high officers had this discussed in a formal trial against him.

Why don't YOU start posting some proof for your claims, rather than sitting on your ass and trying to run DU'ers around, keeping busy looking up links for you?

Be a DU'er, do some work yourself.

[naaman fletcher]

220. Ok, fair enough.

Now, which claims would you like me to post proof about?

[sabrina 1]

126. And you just said a lot more than you intended n/t

[sabrina 1]

232. Genocide is nothing to you? Well, that explains your

position on this. But what are you doing on a progressive board?

[CJvR]

238. Oh it is something.

Just not an all purpose answer to everything, particulary stuff you dont seem to want to answer.

It hardly matters to the current question about evidence that supposedly prove that FARC is camping out in Venezuela.

As for why here? Well the debates here tend to be intresting.

[laughingliberal]

153. Especially hard not to draw conclusions one is predisposed to drawing, anyway. nt

[CJvR]

239. Sure.

The Venezuelan hysteric reaction to the supposed evidence does not strike you as strange?
Had Chavez offered to take a the media and some neutral dipolmats on a tour of the identified sites the conclusion would have been that there is nothing in the Colombian charges.

[Laughing Mirror]

42. Who in South America takes the US seriously anymore ...

other than Colombia, that "lackey of imperialism"? The US is just going to have to get used to the fact that Venezuela -- and this goes for a lot of other countries too, not only Venezuela -- will do what it feels are in its best interests to do, and not what the US stamps and yells it must do.

And -- pro forma State Department statements aside -- the US is just going to have to get come to terms with being a second-tier power on the world stage. But if only you take yourself so seriously anymore as the grand arbiter, the mighty giver of lessons, and nobody falls for it anymore, you're going to have serious problems playing your role.

[dipsydoodle]

52. USA is taken seriously

mainly because its a bully and as such is treated by outsiders with an appropriate amount of disrespect.

[Judi Lynn]

54. The U.S. government was regarded the same way back in 1958, when people surged into the streets

of Caracas to hail the triumphant arrival of U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon! There's a long tradition of unswerving, unaltered, relationship between the U.S. and the Latin American people, although the U.S. has always been wildly supportive of all the right-wing politicians there.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com.nyud.net:8090/_ITWI9nTWaek/R3OqcNeTbAI/AAAAAAAABs0/ZJ09-1yBFiY/s400/nixon-caracas.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com.nyud.net:8090/_ITWI9nTWaek/R3OqQNeTa_I/AAAAAAAABss/TkusBu9L8_w/s400/nixon-caracas2.jpg

http://img.youtube.com.nyud.net:8090/vi/xNsp8B1qlI8/0.jpg http://media3.washingtonpost.com.nyud.net:8090/wp-dyn/content/photo/2009/09/11/PH2009091103897.jpg

[dipsydoodle]

58. You can always be relied on

to find some really classic pictures.

:hi:

[Judi Lynn]

60. Some stories really just stick in one's mind. Thanks!

http://www.audiosuite.at.nyud.net:8090/v3/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/laurel_hardy_dance2.gif

[naaman fletcher]

178. I remember the last time you posted these pics.

You said that in 1958 citizens weren't allowed to protest in Venezuela, and then linked the above pics of people protesting in Venezuela. Thanks, that was funny.

[Judi Lynn]

199. You are of course wildly off base. I have never said that and any DU'er who's been here

knows it, as well.

I HAVE said indigenous people in Bolivia were not allowed to vote, nor to walk on the sidewalks until after a revolution in 1958,

Why, may I ask, would I claim Venezuelans were not allowed to protest when I have been posting those photos of Nixon's trip to Caracas for YEARS?

I read the stories, saw the pictures of the riot when they came out originally in 1958.

Please try to THINK about what you're attempting to communicate before you have totally discredited yourself.

[defendandprotect]

87. Oh . . I think they take us quite seriously -- and CIA --

these are murderous forces as Latin America well knows!!

[Forkboy]

46. The mushroom cloud is only 45 minutes away.

[laughingliberal]

154. +1000 nt

[COLGATE4]

50. Why all the knee-jerk responses

to Colombia and the US requesting the OAS to examine Colombia's formal charges? If they are baseless (as the great majority of responders seem to believe) then no harm, no foul. If on the other hand there is substance to them, shouldn't that be known? Or is it simply more "fire bad, Colombia bad, Hugo good"?

[Mudoria]

56. You have the basics right

Most of these folks think when Chavez takes a dump it smells like roses...

[sabrina 1]

141. What most people think is that Venezuela is none of our

business. Why do you think it is? Why, eg, don't we see daily smears against the Congo's brutal powers? And they really are brutal, not just suspected of maybe harboring a few radicals. But I don't think I've seen a post on that situation, if we really are worried about 'terrorism' here on a regular basis.

I think the answer is that the U.S. doesn't care about these things, they care about resources so they spend money on propaganda to get the American people behind them when they illegally invade these countries. It worked in Iraq and apparently the money they're paying rightwing journalists in Venzuela is beginning to work, even on progressive boards like this.

It's sad to watch, especially after Iraq. You'd think people would at least question the motiviations.

As for your claim about Chavez, you don't get it. It isn't about Chavez, it's about THIS country and their brutal foreign policies that show no sign of changing.

[totodeinhere]

57. The pro Chavez bias is so thick on this board that you could cut it with a knife. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

61. If you want to highjack their beliefs, post something TRUE to persuade them your facts are the right

ones. Should be easy to do, if your side is the truthful one. Nothing convinces like the TRUTH.

Go right ahead, post those damned credible links! You'll make tons of friends for life.

[Warren Stupidity]

64. it must suck to be you then

having to mingle with all these dreadful chavanistas here. Oh my. Poor you.

[Violet_Crumble]

82. Yes, when will people realise the US is in grave danger from Venezuela!

Venezuela's even more dangerous to the existance of the US than Cuba is!! If I was an American who was anti-Venezuelan and pro-Israel (I noticed that's the combination they nearly always are) I'd be hiding under my bed, terrified of imminent invasion by the evil forces of socialism.... ;)

Seriously, do you ever stop and think about how the US looks to people around the world when it carries on the way it does about countries like Venezuela? The US looks absolutely idiotic...

[Jim Sagle]

122. Much like the lefty bozos who spend all their time spazzing about Israel.

But I'm sure you're not familiar with that. ;)

[Violet_Crumble]

167. Yeah, those bozos that do the mindless 'Israel rawwks!' crap...

Don't you worry, Jimbo. I'm very familiar with that :)

[Jim Sagle]

226. And have I told you today that Israel RRRRRAWWWWXXXXX!!!!!!????

[boppers]

138. "anti-Venezuelan and pro-Israel"?

I haven't seen a lot of that on DU, but maybe that's a side effect of my "Ignore" list... I'm anti-propaganda-state, so I tend to think ill of both Venezuela and Israel's tiring attempts to play the "eternal victim" card.

A state with a history of past problems doesn't justify present tense actions that do not reflect present tense problems...

[Violet_Crumble]

169. It must be a side effect of yr ignore list coz I see lots of them...

fwiw, yr stance on Israel and Venezuela seems logical to me...

[defendandprotect]

88. Ironically, many didn't even seem to enjoy it when he was nailing Bush for what he really was -- !!

and the assassination/coup attempts going on then -- !!

If this isn't Obama's doing . . . he better catch up with this run away MIC!!

[totodeinhere]

250. But Chavez says that Obama is no better than Bush. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

253. Not only Chavez. Many people believe his Latin American policy is still as bad

as _{George W. Bush's} or even worse, since all the same radical people are running the show, many of them holdovers from Iran/Contra, and the other aggressions against Latin Americans.

It wasn't something others who hoped for so much a couple of years ago have not said, themselves. The difference is that it couldn't be used politically when others said it as they also are not people this government want to overthrow, so those comments don't get covered loudly and widely, and taken to heart by idiots.

[Forkboy]

69. You tell us.

[COLGATE4]

73. If you insist - it's more "fire bad, Colombia bad". No real responses to

what I believe is a very legitimate question I raised. All the deflection in the world about how bad Colombia is doesn't answer the question about whether they are harboring FARC in Venezuelan territory. Colombia has presented a formal request to the appropriate diplomatic organization, as is its right to do. All we hear in response is 1) crickets, 2) Colombia is bad, 3) Hugo would never do such a thing. A whole lot of sound and thunder, signifying nothing. Let's see what the OAS determines.

[sabrina 1]

241. Let who in? The very people who sent them in?

Lol, you are funny.

Your question has been answered, you just don't like the answers. Your government, ours, is once again supporting a brutal regime, while using it to do its dirty work, setting up a democratic oil rich state for either a coup (which they tried already) to replace the people's government with the usual puppet dictatorship, or to have Colombia invade Venezuela with the U.S. supplying the weapons and special forces, secretly of course, as we always have done in S. America.

YOU answer this question. Would you invite your enemy in to check for evidence of anything, let alone something they planted to begin with? Would the U.S. have invited the Soviet Union in to 'investigate' charges that they weren't harboring anti-SU fighters?

It's a ridiculous proposition and Chavez would be a fool, which he clearly isn't having pulled his country out of the clutches of the real Global Terrorists, the Multi-National Corps whose job it is to keep oil rich countries in a constant state of poverty. He beat them, and they're mad as hell and will kill him if they can. And if they do, all hell will break loose all over S. AMerica and elsewhere as he is very popular around the world, not least because he stands up to the bullies of the world.

Try asking an intelligent question, and think before you ask.

Did you also support the war in Iraq btw?

[laughingliberal]

155. I dunno. How well did it work out for Saddam to allow weapons inspectors in?

With the whole fucking world watching, the inspectors found nothing. Bush declared Saddam had WMD's anyway, warned the inspectors to skedaddle, proceeded to start his war of the oil comapanies' choice, and said Saddam had thrown the inspectors out.

If I were Chavez, I'd tell 'em to pound sand,, too.

[conspirator]

53. Guess what? Chavez is ready for the US invasion a long ago n/t

[boppers]

91. The Dutch too.

He's totally planned for the Dutch invasion as well.

[ronnie624]

93. Crowley, the State Department spokesman,

said that "if Venezuela fails to cooperate in whatever follow-on steps are made, the United States and other countries will obviously take account of that."

Such words are as pregnant with peril as the hiss of a cobra.

The history of U.S. intervention in Latin America and the Caribbean is well established. It is neither a myth nor a joke.

[laughingliberal]

156. Yeah, but it's all just one big sporting event here in the good ole US of A. nt

[Zorro]

166. Yeah he's damned ready for those pesky Flying Dutchmen

[bemildred]

70. Maybe if there were not stories every day accusing him of something or other

this sort of bullshit would get more traction.

[boppers]

90. Maybe if Chavez wasn't putting himself in the news every other day?

Some leaders are very important, so important in fact, that every whim, idea, and thought of theirs must be broadcast to the whole of the country.

[COLGATE4]

101. Typical misdirection for the masses

As the Venezuelan economy heads into the crapper Hugo has to distract the masses with patriotic fervor against the Colombian-Gringo invasion which is 'imminent'. Note moving his troops to the border with Colombia and the speech given by the Venezuelan Army Chief of Staff yesterday. Nothing new under the sun here, just more of the same 'ol, same 'ol. Hugo isn't even creative.

[Judi Lynn]

103. Putting himself in the news. How astute! He has the corporate press trumpeting every move

he makes. We'd hear about it if he burped during a speech, we'd see it in banner headlines, with buckets of follow-up articles rehashing it, and right-wing drooling idiots reveling daily.

You seem to remain unwilling to acknowledge the U.S. has had a BIG hand in all this constant publicity with Chavez, just as it did with Salvador Allende in Chile prior to his US-led overthrow, and the U.S. taxpayer-financed support of Chile's El Mercurio and a host of tv, radio stations, and other newspapers owned by media magnate Augustin Edwards.

In this thread was already posted:

Buying Venezuela's Press With U.S. Tax Dollars
Jeremy Bigwood Investigative reporter
Posted: July 19, 2010 01:28 PM

The U.S. State Department is secretly funneling millions of dollars to Latin American journalists, according to documents obtained in June under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). The 20 documents released to this author--including grant proposals, awards, and quarterly reports--show that between 2007 and 2009, the State Department's little-known Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor channeled at least $4 million to journalists in Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Venezuela through the Pan American Development Foundation (PADF), a Washington-based grant maker that has worked in Latin America since 1962. Thus far, only documents pertaining to Venezuela have been released. They reveal that the PADF, collaborating with Venezuelan NGOs associated with the country's political opposition, has been supplied with at least $700,000 to give out journalism grants and sponsor journalism education programs.

Until now, the State Department has hidden its role in funding the Venezuelan news media, one of the opposition's most powerful weapons against President Hugo Chavez and his Bolivarian movement. The PADF, serving as an intermediary, effectively removed the government's fingerprints from the money. Yet, as noted in a State Department document titled "Bureau/Program Specific Requirements," the State Department's own policies require that "all publications" funded by the department "acknowledge the support." But the provision was simply waived for the PADF. "For the purposes of this award," the requirements document adds, " . . . the recipient is not required to publicly acknowledge the support of the U.S. Department of State."

Before 2007, the largest funder of U.S. "democracy promotion" activities in Venezuela was not the State Department but the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), together with the National Endowment for Democracy (NED). But in 2005, these organizations' underhanded funding was exposed by Venezuelan American attorney Eva Golinger in a series of articles, books, and lectures (disclosure: This author obtained many of the documents). After the USAID and NED covers were blown wide open--forcing USAID's main intermediary, Development Alternatives Inc. (DAI), a Maryland-based contractor, to close its office in Caracas--the U.S. government apparently sought new funding channels, one of which the PADF appears to have provided.

Although the $700,000 allocated to the PADF, which is noted in the State Department's requirements document, may not seem like a lot of money, the funds have been strategically used to buy off the best of Venezuela's news media and recruit young journalists. This has been achieved by collaborating with opposition NGOs, many of which have a strong media focus. Venezuelan opposition, as recipients of "subgrants."

More:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeremy-bigwood/buying-venezuelas-press-w_b_650178.html

[Zorro]

105. EGAD! A USAID STRATEGIC GOAL HAS BEEN UNCOVERED!

<snip>

Civil Society: Our objective in this area is to empower individuals to exercise peacefully their rights of expression, association, and assembly, including through their establishing and participating in NGOs, unions, and other civil society organizations. We will actively protect and promote the right of individuals and civil society organizations to advocate their views and communicate with their own members, with their own and other governments, international bodies, and other elements of civil society inside or outside the countries in which they are based. We will seek to protect and promote access to objective information, including through free, open, and independent media, and through new technologies, including the Internet. We will spotlight abuses of civil society freedoms, denounce crackdowns on civil society and independent media, and publicly demonstrate our solidarity with NGOs, labor unions, and journalists under threat. We will complement this diplomatic activity with foreign assistance to:

Develop and strengthen the capacity of NGOs to advocate for good governance, democratization, and human rights through training and technical assistance in areas such as coalition building, strategic planning and communications, and laws and legal protections.

Advance media freedom by helping to create and develop independent media outlets and media infrastructure, and by providing training on media sector skills (e.g., reporting and investigative techniques), processes, and products, including Web-based services.

Increase citizen participation and oversight in governance through education and awareness training on rights and responsibilities.

Sustain the UN Democracy Fund’s support to civil society organizations.

<snip>

Read the whole thing at: http://www.usaid.gov/policy/coordination/stratplan_fy07-12.pdf

What's USAID's mission? "Advance freedom for the benefit of the American people and the international community by helping to build and sustain a more democratic, secure, and prosperous world composed of well-governed states that respond to the needs of their people, reduce widespread poverty, and act responsibly within the international system."

Don't you agree that the USAID mission is a good thing?

[Judi Lynn]

108. You have NO point whatsoever. We do NOT have the right to interfere in other people's democracy

no matter HOW many maggots in this country demand it.

[Zorro]

109. If you don't see the point try reading with your eyelids open

Are you declaring that USAID's stated mission is unworthy for the US to pursue?

[Tempest]

116. When it undermines another country's democratically elected government it is unworthy

Just as the U.S. funding of the overthrow of Chile's democratically elected government was.

[boppers]

125. You can't have a democracy when the fourth estate is government controlled.

Saddam Hussein and Kim Jong Il were democratically elected, according to some, but not to others.

[sabrina 1]

158. I think you got that wrong. Let me

fix it for you.

You can't have a democracy when foreign enemies are funding the use of your news media to overthrow your democratically elected government

Imagine if we discovered that our enemies had taken over part of news news media, people who had tried to oust our President, eg? What do you think would happen in THIS country? They would be in one of our gulags for life, probably tortured into insanity, with no access to any judicial system.

Those enemies of Venezuela, using U.S. funds to attempt to overthrow their elected president by misusing the media are very lucky they did it in Venezuela. They had their treasonous operations shut down, licenses removed, but they have not been consigned to a dungeon somewhere without legal representation.

Apparently Venezuela has a Fairness Doctrine where you don't get to use the News Media lie about the president and rouse up violent elements to overthrow him. We badly need that here for our 'News' media.

[boppers]

165. I suggest you look into the ownership of Faux.

They have not been thrown into gulags, tortured, or denied legal access. We don't play that way here, because we believe in freedom of speech.

[sabrina 1]

171. No we don't believe in freedom of speech,.

Fox serves the MIC just as the rest of our media does. One does it from the right, the other from the left. Venezuela is no longer in the grip of the kind of powers that our country is in. Fox will not advocate the murder of the president, but if they were foolish enough to do so, regardless of how valuable they are to our war-mongering government, they too would shut down.

As for free speech in the U.S. Ask Helen Thomas, Dan Rather or Donahue about that among others.

It always amazes me how willing Americans are to point fingers elsewhere and develop total amnesia about our own problems :eyes:

[naaman fletcher]

180. What does that have to do with this story?

This story is about Venezuela interfering In Colombia's democracy by harboring narco-terrorists. I agree with you that the US has no right to interfere in Venezuela's democracy. Do you agree that Venezuela has no right to interfere with Colombia's democracy?

[naaman fletcher]

179. LOL. He goes on TV every day and you deny he puts himself in the news?

I thought you knew something about Venezuela.

[Judi Lynn]

194. He has a weekly show. So does Uribe, so does Correa. n/t

[naaman fletcher]

197. LOL. really?

Are you really asserting that Chavez only goes on TV once per week? What about radio?

[Judi Lynn]

208. Why don't you provide a valid link describing his daily radio show?

What IS known is he has a WEEKLY call-in, interactive tv show, "Allo, Presidente."

Don't be shy, go get the links, instead of making charges.

[naaman fletcher]

211. What do you mean by valid link?

You mean vheadline or Venezuelanalysis only correct?

[Judi Lynn]

217. Do you have any information on his daily radio show, or are you making it up? n/t

[naaman fletcher]

222. "daily" might be stretching it,

But he's on TV or radio all the time. Here are links:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/5399476/Venezuelas-President-Hugo-Chavez-plans-marathon-TV-talk-show.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7020982.ece

[Judi Lynn]

224. Here's more information on RCTV, in order to avoid the confusion your Telegraph article creates:

RCTV Internacional to Resume Broadcasting in Venezuela
Radio Caracas Television, which has an editorial slant opposed to President Hugo Chavez, announces that it has reached a solution -- under protest -- to the conflict with regulators that forced RCTV off the country’s cable systems last month


CARACAS – Radio Caracas Television, which has an editorial slant opposed to President Hugo Chavez, announced Monday that it reached a solution to the conflict with regulators that forced RCTV off the country’s cable systems last month.

The president of parent company Empresas 1BC, Marcel Granier, told a press conference that the firm has presented on Monday to the Conatel regulatory panel the documentation required for it to get back “on the air.”

Venezuelan cable systems dropped RCTV Internacional and five other stations from lineups late last month in a dispute over which rules applied to the outlets.

Conatel distinguishes between “national” and “international” channels based on the source of content. RCTVI maintained that as an international channel, it was not subject to regulations requiring national outlets to transmit official addresses whenever the president demands.

But Conatel said RCTV Internacional did not qualify as an international channel because more than 70 percent of its programming was produced in Venezuela.

Granier said RCTV decided to solve the problem by splitting into two networks: RCTV Internacional and RCTV Mundo.

The revamped RCTV Internacional will accept its classification as a domestic outlet and comply with all relevant regulations.

More:
http://laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=352706&CategoryId=10718

The station is seen DOMESTICALLY, as well as internationally, and not only "in Miami."

I've read the standard corporate crap on his spontaneous idea when it was developed, haven't heard a word about it since then.

I am aware that the privately owned, anti-left channels, stations refused to accept campaign spots for Chavez' re-election, an odd decision they made. Very odd. It would sail here.

[Bacchus39]

246. official link to the Chavez variety of crap hour (hours)

http://www.alopresidente.gob.ve/

[laughingliberal]

159. Yes. And perhaps if it wasn't the same corporate M$M that props up our oligarchs.

But it is. And people here, well aware the goals of the M$M are the goals of the oligarchs where political reporting on our nation is concerned, suck it down like mother's milk.

[Dhalgren]

74. I hope they are "harboring" leftists. Good for them!

Fuck America and it's empire...

[golfguru]

80. what kind of talk is that?

Fuck America? This is our country and a democracy.
We ELECT our leaders. If you don't like our leaders,
it is OK but does that mean you also do not like democracy?

[laughingliberal]

160. Well, Venezuela has elected Chavez in far more transparent and fair elections than ours.

Yet, we feel some sort of right to keep trying to overturn the election results in another country.

Who the fuck do we think we are?

[Zorro]

168. Some observers would disagree with your assessment

<snip>

International observers say President Hugo Chavez is ramping up pressure on the dwindling number of independent media outlets in Venezuela.

The pending Sept. 26 legislative election appears to be the incentive for Chavez to crack down on broadcasters that have been critical of his regime, leaving the mass media in the hands of outlets that are consistently supportive of the government.

"His goal is to silence the opposition completely and to have a democratically elected dictatorship,'' Susan Kaufman Purcell, the director of the Center for Hemispheric Policy at the University of Miami, told the Miami Herald.

<snip>

More at: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/International/2010/07/24/Chavez-ups-heat-on-media-ahead-of-vote/UPI-11771279997642/

[laughingliberal]

200. Uh huh.UPI owned by Sun Myung Moon.

:rofl:

Long time Bush buddy. No agenda, there.

:rofl:

[Zorro]

210. Susan Purcell is owned by Sun Myung Moon?

Sounds as if she's got some pretty good credentials. Probably knows what she's talking about.

"Susan Kaufman Purcell is Director of the Center for Hemispheric Policy at the University of Miami. Previously, Dr. Purcell was vice president of the Americas Society, a not-for-profit educational institution focusing on Latin America and Canada, and the Council of the Americas. Prior to this, Dr. Purcell was senior fellow and director of the Latin America Project at the Council on Foreign Relations, and a member of the U.S. State Department's policy planning staff, serving under Presidents Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan. In addition, Dr. Purcell has done extensive consulting on Latin American economic, trade, investment and political issues for U.S. corporations.

Before joining the U.S. government, Dr. Purcell was a tenured professor of political science at the University of California, Los Angeles (1969-79). Dr. Purcell has written, co-authored or co-edited ten books. The most recent ones are Cuba: The Contours of Change (2000), Mexico Under Zedillo (1998), Brazil Under Cardoso (1997), Europe and Latin America in the World Economy (1994), Japan and Latin America in the New Global Order (1992) and Latin America: U.S. Policy After the Cold War (1991). She has published more than seventy articles on Latin American economic, trade, political and foreign policy issues.

Dr. Purcell has been an International Affairs Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, a Visiting Fellow at the Overseas Development Council, and a Fellow at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. Other awards and honors include a National Defense Foreign Language Fellowship, a Fulbright-Hays Fellowship and a Foreign Area Fellowship. She holds a BA degree in Spanish and Latin American literature from Barnard College, where she was elected to Phi Beta Kappa, and an MA and PhD degrees in political science from Columbia University."

[laughingliberal]

221. A great resume does not preclude siding with the oligarchs.

She's also an editor of America Economia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Am%C3%A9rica_Econom%C3%ADa

Since 1993, the unit of analysis and studies AméricaEconomía Intelligence conducts research and rankings of the major topics of interest to senior executives and entrepreneurs from Latin America, which have become a key tool for global business vision. Its recognized quality has allowed us to complete the portfolio of services giving rise to reports of high complexity and interest to investors and researchers throughout the region-specific.

Sounds pretty 'pro-growth, pro-bidness' to me.

[Zorro]

223. Sounds like somebody Hugo could use

[laughingliberal]

234. No. See Hugo has been trying to resolve the problem of all the wealth concentrated at the top.

The 'pro-growth, pro-bidness' oligarchs prefer all the money at the top and the people begging for the scraps.

Would be nice if we could break up some of their influence in our country, actually.

[sabrina 1]

242. Lol, UPI, the Moonie News media. Well, of course they

would be on the anti-Venezuelan band-wagon. Now there's someone we ought to be asking about. How did THAT nutcase come to own so much of OUR media? How come he spends time in our Congress? And how come he owns thousands of businesses in this country?

I've yet to see anything coming from any Moonie or Fox publication that I couldn't discredit with a couple of minutes of googling. And this is a perfect example. Now I KNOW the story is a lie.

I'm glad you posted it though. I had forgotten about his media Empire, always supportive of far right causes. He started the rightwing Washington Times also.

I bet a lot of this propaganda is coming from people like him and Murdoch. After all they are experts at propaganda.

[naaman fletcher]

182. What does that have to do with this story?

In case you have forgotten, this story is about Venezuela harboring FARC terrorists who are interfering in Colombia's democracy. Do you approve of that?

[laughingliberal]

202. Context is always important. Here's the post to which I was replying:

Fuck America? This is our country and a democracy.
We ELECT our leaders. If you don't like our leaders,
it is OK but does that mean you also do not like democracy?

[naaman fletcher]

131. Why must it be either/or?

I am against America's empire too, but that doesn't mean that everyone who claims to join us in being against our empire is a good person. FARC, for example, long ago stopped being any sort of real revolutionary force and is just a narco-terrorist business. One can be against the US and against narco-terrorist murderers.

I know some people here don't get that, but it's true.

[davidinalameda]

249. so you're okay with them harboring murderers

and terrorists?

[defendandprotect]

81. US is the terrorist nation and about time we wake up to that nightmare . . .

[naaman fletcher]

183. So because the US is "the terrorist nation"

Does that mean that there are no other terrorists in the world? Does it mean there are no left wing terrorists in the world? Does it mean that FARC does not exist, or that FARC are not terrorists?

Please explain.

I thought this story was about Venezuela harboring FARC terrorists. If true, do you think that's ok?

[laughingliberal]

204. I don't think the story is true. nt

[dipsydoodle]

97. Three cheers

[Doctor_J]

99. How long until we see photos of Hugo having sex with a 4-year old?

courtesy of Breitbart & Fox "News" of course.

[Judi Lynn]

102. Would be no surprise at all. A Venezuelan publication, Tal Cual, showed him waving a gun

during a speech he made, ran it on their front page. Later it was learned he had held a ROSE in the air which someone had given him just before going on stage, apparently.

Tal Cual's photo, http://venezuelanalysis.com.nyud.net:8090/images/2003/sep/tal_cual_pistola_fotomontaje.jpg and the original photo,
Why all the noise over Tal Cual's right to a little journalistic freedom of expression, anyway?

~~~~~
Guns & Roses in Caracas, Chavez at gunpoint

Monday, Sep 29, 2003
By: Lucila Gallino and Ralph Niemeyer

An episode worthy a Venezuelan soap opera, like the one that happened last week in the Venezuelan media, can explain once again the passions and the hatred that President Hugo Chávez and his government generate not only in Venezuela but also in the rest of the world. Would it be why Chavez is -for many- the Latin American “black sheep”?

Many things happen in Caracas every day. In this city where the violence is tolerated, the media are the daily protagonists of a mediatic explosion that shakes the nation.

On Friday September 26, the newspaper “Tal Cual” ("As such"), opponent of the Government, was sent to the streets with an issue that became the scandal of the week. On the cover of the paper, President Chávez is shown holding a 9mm caliber gun on the left hand. The publication of this high impact photo is the full responsibility of the Editor of the paper, who will have to appear before the Law for falsification of information.

The "little retouch" that was done to the original photo is not as simple as changing an image for another one. In this case, a gun was digitally put in place of a red rose that had been given to the President during the First Women World Forum underway in Caracas. Chavez gave a speech at the Forum in which 190 women from 27 countries participated in support of Venezuela’s revolutionary process.

The retouching of this photomontage exceeds all boundaries of respect. On the background of the scene, there was a poster with the logo of the Forum. The logo in the altered photo was erased in order to put the photo out of context.

More:
http://venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1025

[laughingliberal]

161. If that doesn't wake some people up to the nature of the anti-Chavez press...

This is the lead up to the invasion of Iraq all over again.

[boppers]

181. "Bandwidth Limit Exceeded"

Interesting story, though. They seem fairly extreme in their "editing".

[rabs]

110. Question for Crowley, U.S. State Department spokesman

(If I were a reporter at State's daily briefing.)

"With only two weeks to go in his term, President Uribe alleged before the OAS that Colombian FARC and FLN guerrillas have camps inside VENEZUELA. His ambassador at the OAS provided Google Earth maps, fuzzy photos, GPS coordinates (that could have been made up) and other unproven "evidence" as supposed proof. The OAS was dubious of his claims and did not take any action to appoint an international commission to investigate those allegations.

"My question then is, sir, why did the Uribe military, which has gotten massive military aid from the United States, NOT detect the scores of FARC and FLN camps INSIDE COLOMBIA using those same methods during the past EIGHT years Uribe has been in power?"

"Finally, do you think that the Colombian government and its military NEEDS the FARC and FLN to continue receiving billions in military aid from the United States?"

Thank you.

[Judi Lynn]

111. Impeccable logic. I'd like to see the idiot answer that one. If only someone would ask him...

I'd love to see his face as he struggles for the right lie.

[rabs]

113. Follow up question

"Mr. Crowley, President Hugo Chavez yesterday reiterated that the Colombian guerrillas 'should seriously consider' the call by various Latin American presidents to halt their 50-year-old insurgency because the world of today is not that of the 1960s.

"President Chavez said the guerrillas should reconsider their armed stategy, because in Colombia conditions do not exist for them to take power."

"My question is, would the United States support President Chavez in his call for the FARC and FLN to disarm and demobilize?"

Thank you.

[hack89]

245. I think the answer would be

"America is more concerned with FARC involvement in the international illegal drug trade and would want assurances that portions of the FARC will not simply give up the political fight and become a full time drug cartel."

[hack89]

136. Dumb question

the Colombian military has been kicking FARC's ass for several years now - why do you think they need camps in Venezuela? The FARC is not beaten but they have been on a hell of a losing streak for a couple of years now and have lost significant territory and have seen a big loss in numbers.

They know very well where most of the FARC camps in Colombia are.

[COLGATE4]

149. You're absolutely right - but don't try and convince

the Hugo fan club of it. They have a pathological reflex with anything regarding Colombia and/or anything that even midly criticizes Dear Leader. Because of more successful pursuit by the Colombian Army over the past several years FARC is finding itself wounded and hounded - thus the camps in Venezuela and, until Colombia took action, in Ecuador. The only real question is not whether there are FARC camps in Venezuela - it's whether they are there with Chavez's knowledge and/or encouragement. This is a question that the fan club really really wants to avoid talking about.

[Judi Lynn]

172. If they knew where the camps are, they'd round them up, end of the problem. n/t

[naaman fletcher]

174. which you would oppose, right? nt

[laughingliberal]

206. I would be highly suspicious about who they were really 'rounding up.' nt

[Judi Lynn]

214. You bet! We've heard the result of whom they've killed.

It's on record that one time they killed a young man missing one of his legs, who had once been a paramilitary HIMSELF until he had been shot and couldn't kill with them any longer. Down right pathetic.

[hack89]

209. No

it may be too big of a military problem - the FARC has enough teeth to warrant some caution. If there was an easy military solution the fighting would have ended a long time ago.

[Judi Lynn]

216. Really? Then how would they continue to receive over half a billion dollars yearly

from the U.S.?

And what would the U.S. do without Colombia as its "forward operating" base?

Where would all those U.S. soldiers with immunity from any prosecution in Colombia go,anyway? All dressed up with no where to go.

[hack89]

229. I have no idea. nt

[Zorro]

230. Let me help educate you

since you clearly have no understanding why US soldiers have immunity from prosecution in many host countries, yet you continually promote these agreements as evidence the US military has free rein to cause any mayhem whatsoever.

Justice systems in many foreign countries are quite corruptable, and even low-ranking enlisted soldiers are viewed by the local population as being phenomenally wealthy.

This, in turn, makes them susceptible to being hauled in on a variety of bogus charges, and in those court systems the US soldier is inevitably found guilty whether there is any credible evidence or not.

Immunity from local prosecution protects US soldiers from having to defend themselves from a stacked deck. This does not exonerate soldiers that commit crimes on foreign territory from prosecution -- the military courts are quite a bit less charitable in their sentencing than US courts.

[laughingliberal]

163. Excellent. But, just as we had those who clung to the made up stories of WMD's in Iraq...

We now have those who believe every word coming out of a murderous regime in Columbia and the oligarch supporting press.

[naaman fletcher]

192. one quibble, and a possible partial answer.

There are plenty of not fuzzy photos. One possible answer to the question of detecting FARC could be this:

In Colombia, FARC is under intense pressure and is in constant hiding. In Venezuela, where FARC has been given safe haven by Chavez, they live out in the open and are therefore easy to find.

[laughingliberal]

236. Here's another answer:

It's all bullshit just like Saddam's WMD's and the wealthy corporate interests are waging relentless propaganda campaigns against Chavez to regain control of the country's resources. Uribe is a tool.

[BillH76]

137. Anti-communism. That's all this is. Just like Vietnam, Nicaragua, etc.

US business in Venezuela--doesn't like being nationalized. And every American administration, Obama's included, works for US business.

[laughingliberal]

164. I don't know why that is not apparent to people. Unless it serves their purposes to not see...

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[naaman fletcher]

184. So because the US has bad motivations,

That means that Venezuela is not harboring FARC terrorists?

[laughingliberal]

193. I don't trust a damned thing out of the corporate sponsored, oligarchist media.

I didn't believe their shit when they said Iraq had WMD's and I don't believe them now. Same players, different oil rich nation.

[naaman fletcher]

198. Well I don't really either,

That is why I try to read all sides of the story and make the best judgement that I can, but it seems better than simply assuming that opponents of the US are always saints and can do no wrong.

[laughingliberal]

201. Plenty of opponents of the US are not saints. But I've watched the history of how we've operated

in Latin America and I have yet to see us take down a right wing, oppressive government. It's always the ones who want to restore fairness for their people who are on our shit list.

*They came for the liberals in South America and I said nothing because I was not in South America.*

[The abyss]

143. THE CIA: BEYOND REDEMPTION AND SHOULD BE TERMINATED

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/07/24/the-cia-beyond-redemption-and-should-be-terminated-2/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4477391

[naaman fletcher]

185. Interesting..

I didn't realize this article was about the CIA. I thought it was about FARC terrorists possibly being harbored in Venezuela. What do you think of that? If they are there, do you think it's ok since the CIA is bad?

[laughingliberal]

237. I don't think they're there. nt

[jah the baptist]

186. chavez is a blowhard with authoritarian tendencies

but he is also democratically elected and has made genuine improvements in the lives of the traditionally forgotten and put upon poor of his country

he has done this at the expense of american corporations and the upper class that have always gotten their way there

he is also no fool

he has said he thinks the farc are a lost cause and i doubt seriously that he would give them shelter and support with nothing to gain

[laughingliberal]

195. Thank you. I agree 100%. nt

[jah the baptist]

228. you are welcome and i say blowhard and authoritarian tendencies primarily due to

his marathon broadcast speeches

not my cup of tea

but the man has lifted a lot of people from poverty and given hope and a voice to those who havent had one since the spanish conquest

the amerindian and lower caste mestizos

he is not a dictator he does not jail his opposition even when it would be completely within his right

for example the broadcast media that actively participated in a US bush backed coup against venezuelan democracy

despite his close ties to the castros who have more than tendencies in the authoritarian department he is a different creature altogether

he shares with them enemies in the form hecendado and capitalist bullying but engages those enemies through the ballot box and prsonally i think the cuban revolution could have gone that route had it not been the middle of the cold war and the lessons the cubans learned from guatemala

anywho

thats my dos centavos.

[Alamuti Lotus]

218. US State Department propaganda should not be taken seriously: World

[Judi Lynn]

219. The world knows, too! Everyone but our right-wingdings. n/t