Lunatic in Oakland Shoot-Out Furious with “Left-Wing Politicians”

[murdoch]

Source: Alternet

A 45-year-old parolee, described by his mother as angry at left-wing politicians, opened fire on California Highway Patrol officers on an Oakland freeway early Sunday and was hit by return fire while wearing body armor, authorities said….

Williams’ mother, Janice Williams of Groveland, said her son had been living next door and taking care of her father’s house and land. She said he had been released from prison about 2 1/2 years ago after a felony conviction, which she declined to describe, and had almost completed his parole.

“He hasn’t been able to get a job because he’s an ex-felon and nobody will hire him,” she said.

She said her son, who had been a carpenter and a cabinetmaker before his imprisonment, was angry about his unemployment and about “what’s happening to our country.”

Read more: http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/18/lunatic-in-oakland-shoot-out-infuriated-by-fox-news-talking-points-about-left-wing-politicians/

---

Another tea-bagger flips out.

[depakid]

1. Right wing hate radio strikes gain

Brought to everyone via media deregulation.

[deacon]

17. Yep. n/t

[Action]

40. Then how come

We are starting to read stories that the repubs could take over the House and Senate??????????

How insane are the voters that they want to just have 2 years of extreme deadlock????

What am I missing here?

[MadMaddie]

48. Remember who controls the Media!

They believe if they say it enough, just enough people will believe it and stay home and not vote.

This is why it is critical for all of us to get out and vote to ensure it doesn't happen.

Welcome to DU!:hi:

[ooglymoogly]

119. Add to that fact, that you can never underestimate the gullibility of The American people.nt

[John Q. Citizen]

149. The FCC?

edit to add...

Remember who owns the FCC.

[MadMaddie]

150. Well there is that too!

I was thinking more of the lines of 3 - 4 owners own all of the MSM in this nation and need to be broken up.

[depakid]

172. It would help if the administration (or the last Democratic one) took media re-regulation seriously

but they haven't- so expect more and worse in the months and years to come.

[Kievan Rus]

163. This is what happens when the average American....

cares more about celebrity scandals and American Idol than the future of their country.

[wordpix]

189. how come? what are you missing? start reading!

I know that's something most Americans don't like to do but you really can't keep getting your news from Faux and Rushbot

[burnsei sensei]

41. +1

The Fairness Doctrine was a good thing.
When are the FCC going to get it through their thick heads?

[ffr]

105. hate bating works

Thanks Rubert & friends! Crooks!

Glad he didn't open fire on defenseless civilians.

[brucefan]

2. Think this will get as much coverage

as the phony Black Panther story? Neither do I.

[Hansel]

181. Not unless he threatened to kill Eric Cantor. Then it will be blasted everywhere. nt

[pinboy3niner]

3. Taking his country back--by attempted cop-killing nt

[Loudmxr]

4. This is just an isolated incident. Next incident in 3...2...

I have this little thing about pattern. Often times LE may choose not to enforce a certain law because it does not meet the criteria of PATTERN. I understand that.

But Chriss O'Malley when I see events that meet PATTERN and the news media does not report it as such. It drives me :crazy:

[AtheistCrusader]

5. Unemployed. Felon. Illegal for him to acquire either body armor or a firearm.

Time to find out who sold both to him, and run him or her into prison on a rail.

Also, curious where he even got the money, being so hard up and unemployed and all.

[depakid]

7. Build more prisons!

[Loudmxr]

11. BTW My Assm member wrote the law making it illegal for him to have body armor.

Scott Wildman CA 43rd. Gee about 10 years ago. I loved that guy then he sorta disappeared.:shrug:

[Recursion]

145. I still can't come up with a justification for that

How could you ever tell someone he or she can't buy a completely defensive piece of equipment?

[truthisfreedom]

171. Because of the use this "lunatic" made of the body armor. That's exactly why the law was written.

I see your point, though.

[drm604]

18. From the article:

Janice Williams said she kept the guns because “eventually, I think we’re going to be caught up in a revolution.” But she said she had told her son many times that “he didn’t have to be on the front lines.”

So it sounds like he got the gun from his mother.

It sounds like that's also where he got his lunatic ideas.

[Javaman]

65. Sounds like it's a genetic disorder. nt

[drm604]

102. I think it's more a matter of upbringing. n/t

[DrDan]

19. his Mother kept the guns in the house . . .

Just more gun violence. Our national obsession with guns is making all daily situations dangerous.

[rrneck]

187. ...

[Recursion]

30. Why is body armor illegal for felons?

What's the possible justification there?

[Joe Bacon]

35. Comes from an incident several years ago

Here in California we had an incident involving a couple folks who robbed a bank, killed a couple policemen firing cop killer bullets while wearing body armor. That's why it's been banned in California.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

51. Oh, I remember that now.

The video footage was on all the network TV news, and it was dramatic. Go to YouTube and search for "shootout bank robbery north hollywood."

Edited, in response to a reply: it seems I am thinking of some other shootout. I am sorry. Thanks for the correction.

[Recursion]

56. No, in the North Hollywood shootout only the robbers were killed

Though several police were injured. And I think a dog was killed.

[beevul]

151. I think you better read the facts of that robbery.

"a couple folks who robbed a bank, killed a couple policemen firing cop killer bullets while wearing body armor."

Number one: "Cop killer" bullets is generally fiction. Yes, there are rounds that are made to penetrate body armor, HOWEVER, they are not available on the civilian market.

Number two: No police were killed.


Number three: the shooters were using RIFLES, illegally converted to fire automatically.

[cowman]

153. Cop killer bullets?

what the hell is a cop killer bullet? Is that a bullet manufactured just to kill cops? What a crock of shit. Any bullet, if used improperly, can kill a cop or anyone for that matter.

[MadMaddie]

49. I am beginning to believe these people are being given access

to these weapons so they can create mayhem. The individuals themselves have not value but the damage they can cause does. The right wing in this country is dangerous and we need to accept that fact.

[louis-t]

83. Body armor can't be cheap.

[Robb]

118. Cheaper than it used to be.

More manufacturers sell to the public these days, lots of journalists and other civilians in war zones that want them. You do get what you pay for, however.

[Richard Steele]

155. Still pretty expensive for someone who's been unemployed for 2 1/2 years.

Just sayin'.

[quakerboy]

86. Article adresses this, albeit superficially

"Janice Williams said she kept the guns because “eventually, I think we’re going to be caught up in a revolution.” But she said she had told her son many times that “he didn’t have to be on the front lines.”"

Of course she also said "She said she had no explanation for his actions."

I got one. You are fed your child lies. He broke the law, and got out of jail in the middle of a massive recession caused by your idols, couldnt deal with the fact that he had screwed up and that most of his beliefs were an easily disprovable lie, and snapped.

[MadMaddie]

182. His mother purchased the weapons

she claimed she did it in preparation for the upcoming war. Translated "race war".

[Zephie]

6. And thank god for more bad press

for the crazies on the right. =)

[ericinne]

8. Sounds to me...

Sounds like a right winger who didn't wanna pull himself up by the bootstraps.

[aquart]

9. He was a carpenter and a cabinetmaker.

Who couldn't figure out how to take a piece of wood and make something out of it that someone else would have to buy. It's pretty painful, to have skills that only go so far.

He sounds horribly confused. Firing at cops because he was mad at liberals?

He was helping his mother out. Why did he have to throw that away?

[babylonsister]

10. That's a demeaning comment to carpenters. I couldn't figure

it out.

[damonm]

110. Meseems it was aimed at the individual,

not at carpenters as a group.
This alleged "carpenter and cabinetmaker" couldn't figure it out. Quite frankly, HE is demeaning to carpenters.

[harmonicon]

12. the thing with crazy people is that they're crazy

If this guy were just some teabagger, as some here suggest, there would be reasons (albeit sourced from faulty reasoning, hatred, bigotry, etc.) for the actions. More likely, I suspect the guy is simply a nut.

[MadMaddie]

50. Yes, you may be correct

but add on the crazy Rush/Hannitty and others screaming at the top of their lungs the crazy rhetoric they have been pushing for the last 20 years and we have the making of an impending disaster.

I think this is just the beginning....

[Bluenorthwest]

69. You are so correct.

Trying to find the 'reasons' for acts of madness is a worthless and dangerous proposition. But people have a hard time understanding flat out insanity.

[guruoo]

117. 'It's insanity, not ideology' - used by teabaggers to deflect culpability in the

Unitarian Church shootings.


Church shooter pleads guilty; letter released
Adkisson to spend life behind bars for crimes

* By Jamie Satterfield
* Knoxville News Sentinel
* Posted February 10, 2009 at midnight


With what he believed to be his last pen strokes, Jim David Adkisson urged other suicidal soldiers against the “liberalism that’s destroying America” to leave their own trail of carnage behind.

“I’d like to encourage other like-minded people to do what I’ve done,”

"Do something for your country before you go. Go kill liberals.”

“Liberals are a pest like termites, millions of them … the only way we can rid ourselves of this evil is kill them in the streets, kill them where they gather.”

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/feb/10/church-shooter-pleads-guilty-letter-released/

[CLANG]

161. Liberals are the new jews, and America is the new Germany

:scared:

[aquart]

170. Are there laws in America preventing liberals from holding jobs or going to school?

Or riding a bicycle? Because that analogy is just ridiculous if not.

[CLANG]

173. Then you're reading way too much into it.

[Bluzmann57]

46. Sounds like he was insane

And if it's so easy to "make something out of it that someone else would have to buy", why don't you do it? A terribly demeaning post to carpenters and cabinetmakers, who are craftsmen and women.

[aquart]

169. Demeaning?

Since I spent twenty years dealing with the amazing talents of crafts people who revived and honed lost skills and set out to make a living for their families on just what their hands could produce, I'm not worried about my credentials in that area. But I have a degree of sympathy for someone who couldn't take that path, whether from a lack of creative talent or truly disabling emotional and mental problems which seems to be the case.

I can make a simple box. I cannot make a cabinet. It's painful to know someone trained with such a special, useful skill set could find no place for himself on this earth. It's seems a waste.

I'm sorry if you thought my remarks "demeaning."

[Recursion]

177. I can't make a simple box

Give me wires and a soldering iron and I can make a marvel of circuitry. Give me wood and tools and I make a monstrosity that defies geometry and mocks Euclid's cringing ghost. To each his talent, I suppose...

[NBachers]

53. It's a huge investment in time, skills, equipment, money and marketing to

"figure out how to take a piece of wood and make something out of it that someone else would have to buy."

How are you at installing 3-way Blum cabinet hinge systems for a corner lazy-susan cabinet door?

Would you build your own vapor-capturing spray booth, or buy a pre-made one?

Everybody with woodworking skills has toyed with the idea of their own cabinet shop. Many, many cabinet shops go out of business.

[bitchkitty]

91. Hoo! If my BIL was here he would take

exception to that comment, being a much sought-after master craftsman.

[guruoo]

95. Williams felt that the 'time was now' and so , armed to the teeth, proceeded to head downtown...

'...he had emptied his mother's gun cabinet before leaving on his little trip, and was armed with a high-powered hunting rifle as well as a handgun, a shotgun, a small explosive device of some kind, and a few other things. A CHP spokesman told the press it was clear that Williams intended to harm someone or some group of people, and he was about 12 minutes from downtown San Francisco where he was stopped.' http://sfist.com/2010/07/18/shootout_with_heavily_armed_crazed.php

'Williams was apparently prone to maniacal rants about about left-wing politicians taking away his rights and lived with his mother in backwoods Groveland in Tuolmne County. She had a locker full of guns, as she believed that armed resistance against our government was inevitable -- but Williams allegedly made off with the stash because he felt that time was now. (He purportedly skipped out on a dinner date with mom; they were going to make a salsa together). In addition to a large cache of weapons, Williams was clothed in body armor, which enabled him to absorb numerous shots and survive.'
http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2010/07/byron_williams_byron_williams_shooter.php

[Aristophrenia]

13. Too much internet...

It feeds preconceived ideas - in no way does it educate or offer the opportunity to expand you horizon and accept new ideas.
That can only come from reading a book which someone else has recommended in order to offer an alternative view - or through discussing things with a real person.
The internet is is a medium designed to allow people to reinforce and expand their ideas by finding supporting material - as Homer said - "facts - who cares about facts. You can use facts to support anything you want to say!"

That being said - yes radio and fox are bad.

[Skittles]

14. the internet is better than corporate owned TV and radio

at least the truth can be found SOMEWHERE on the internet

[drm604]

20. The article dosn't say anything about him using the internet..

It says that his mother says he was angered by what he saw on the news.

[Smarmie Doofus]

21. Interesting POV but I don't agree.

Internet is useful.. perhaps uniquely so.... precisely *because* it enables comparisons and interactions.

The interactions may not be lengthy but there is more interplay... and most likely more light shed on the subject.... in this thread alone than there than there will be in any MSM coverage of this episode.

[Blandocyte]

23. You failed to mention internet pr0n

The internet is a medium designed to allow people to quickly find pr0n.

There's no statement in the story about Shootie's media preferences, but I bet they're conservative hate radio and Fox. There's a combination of stupid + angry that these media promote in people that is not good. Stupid + angry leads to bad judgment and a loss big picture/long term thinking.

[pattmarty]

34. What the fuck is "pr0n"?

[Recursion]

57. elite-speek for "porn"

13 year olds who think they are hackers do things like replacing "o" with the number 0 and reversing letters inside words,

wi7|-| teh rezul7 0f l00kng l1k3 m0r0nz wh1lz t3hy w47c|-| tehyR pr0nz.

[unpossibles]

104. but I think that one caught on to mainstream because it was a way to discuss the topic

without setting off the word filters at work.

[Recursion]

109. Yeah, that's probably true. Like "refudiate", some typos beg to be used

pr0n, pwn, etc.

[unpossibles]

114. it's a cromulent explanation. nt

[LostinVA]

144. Exactly!

[Recursion]

59. Mozilla's graphics rendering library at one point was called "libporn"

And the Web (only one small part of the Internet's porn capabilities) was invented by a scientist, stuck up in the middle of the mountains with a ton of other scientists. It was a way for them to share large binary files easily. It was "data" for "work". Yeah...

[dem mba]

74. for all the noobs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET


;-)

[Recursion]

81. If I can just get people to distinguish between "web" and "internet" I feel I've done my geek job

[dem mba]

100. uhoh, do I know that?

the web is on the internet, right?

[Recursion]

103. The Web is one part of the Internet

Or I might even say one of many "clients" of the Internet, to go for an analogy.

[dem mba]

128. ah

I just noticed the Linux penguin in your logo. And Recursion is a term from programming, eh?

I see the nerdliness is strong in this one...

;-)

[bergie321]

101. What about

The interwebs?

[caseymoz]

28. So, it really comes down to how people select on the internet.

Read a book somebody else has recommended to you? How do you know people can't select their friends to recommend these books? What if the "friend" leads them to one of Rush Limbaugh's books? You think also that most of these guys don't have friends they meet personally with who agree with everything they say?

It has little to do with the Internet. It has to do with the fact that people are choosing their own fantasy worlds to deal with. It comes with having those "core values," meaning, an ideology you're at least emotionally committed to, that your version of the world has to support. After that, the media, including the Internet, will cater to your ideological niche, and you become just another infotainment consumer.

Really, the Internet is better in the way it provides a lot of information, but that doesn't matter when the person's habits still bias the information they get.

[Tsiyu]

43. Wrong

"The internet is is a medium designed to allow people to reinforce and expand their ideas by finding supporting material "

so is a library.

so is a teabagger meeting.

And if you think the internet is so bad, why post on an internet website?

[The_Commonist]

44. Welcome to DU, Aristophrenia!

This is a place where people come to get educated and are offered the opportunity to expand their horizons and accept new ideas.

[Doctor_J]

45. You think that the internet, and not Hate Radio, was in this dude's head?

Nice try, but wrong

[liberation]

156. So, what was the excuse when these lunatics were going off the deep end before the Internet?

[ScottLand]

15. Couldn't be that he could not find work! Isn't he just too lazy?

Must be hard to reconcile in an unemployed right-winger. No wonder he exploded.

[SemperEadem]

16. well, what did he do to land his ass in prison?

the person whose fault that is was his.

seems to me he knew right from wrong and he chose to do wrong and got caught. This is called the consequences of your actions.

this isn't some guy distraught over employment: this is a man with an overarching sense of entitlement who thinks that he should be handed a job because of the color of his skin.

I supposed he thought he was going to go down as a hero against "teh goverments", like that ass who flew his plane into the IRS office in Tx.

Janice Williams said she kept the guns because “eventually, I think we’re going to be caught up in a revolution.” But she said she had told her son many times that “he didn’t have to be on the front lines.”

any revolution you get caught up in, honey, is some bullshit and fukkery that you and your ilk have concocted. Keep on living in that stupid little dream world of yours and you will see more of this kind of shit going down--where someone wants to force unrest because they got sick and tired of waiting on the revolution to come on its own timetable.

[leveymg]

22. Why does the MSM never use the term "terrorism" when Right-wingers try to kill someone?

If this guy were a Muslim or Lefty, you'd better believe they'd be hitting us over the head with the T-word.

[Joe Bacon]

37. Who owns the press?

There's your answer. Right wingers are never terrorists. Only all 3 members of the "New Black Panther Party" are...

[leveymg]

42. "Free Press" is an oxymoron - it's expensive to control the content and flow of news.

"Free" news is almost all produced at a loss, subsidized by someone. Who backs Murdoch's NewsCorp, for instance? The Saudis. They must see some value in it for themselves, as they don't spend money as a public service.

There's long been a strange alliance between reactionary militants, news magnates like Hearst, Luce and Murdoch, and the plutocrats who bankroll them.

[LongTomH]

90. "Free Press" didn't refer to money!

It was a reference to a press, uncontrolled and uncensored by government. A Free Press was supposed to expose corruption and any move toward repression from government.

Believe it or not, we actually had a Free Press in America at one time. This was of course, before the rise of 'media giants' like Murdoch and the consolidation of media.

[leveymg]

127. Even in the late 18th Century, the press was seen as both a threat and the savior of liberty.

"The only security of all is in a free press. The force of public opinion cannot be resisted when permitted freely to be expressed. The agitation it produces must be submitted to. It is necessary, to keep the waters pure." --Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1823. ME 15:491

"The functionaries of every government have propensities to command at will the liberty and property of their constituents. There is no safe deposit for these but with the people themselves, nor can they be safe with them without information. Where the press is free, and every man able to read, all is safe." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816. ME 14:384

"The most effectual engines for (pacifying a nation) are the public papers... (A despotic) government always (keeps) a kind of standing army of newswriters who, without any regard to truth or to what should be like truth, (invent) and put into the papers whatever might serve the ministers. This suffices with the mass of the people who have no means of distinguishing the false from the true paragraphs of a newspaper." --Thomas Jefferson to G. K. van Hogendorp, Oct. 13, 1785. (*) ME 5:181, Papers 8:632

"Our liberty cannot be guarded but by the freedom of the press, nor that be limited without danger of losing it." --Thomas Jefferson to John Jay, 1786.

[Joe Chi Minh]

143. Doesn't he sound more like a bitterly disillusioned left-winger?

[mwb970]

24. Just another typical conservative.

Expect to see much more of this as the right continues its Long March to the insane asylum.

[Recursion]

31. It's "typical" for conservatives to go on shooting sprees?

Really?

[mwb970]

38. Well, they sure talk about it a lot.

Ever read Free Republic?

But of course you're right, acting out like this is not actually "typical" of conservatives. Refusing to condemn such acts (and often offering support) is, alas, very much so.

[glitch]

52. They prefer to start wars -- that way they can make some money on it. nt

[Wednesdays]

139. Exactly. Conservatives start the wars

...and then have poor people go out and do the shooting for them.

[cowman]

154. Really

who started the war in Vietnam and who escalated it?

[liberation]

158. Zing....

... but then again, as "the left" Democrats make a great center-right party ;-)

[mitchum]

168. Eisenhower sent military to Vietnam in 1959 to train and arm the South Vietnamese...

and Nixon bombed the shit out of the place (and Cambodia)

But I know thats not the answer you were so clumsily looking for

[cowman]

178. Wrong

Johnson seriously escalated it, and what party did Johnson belong to? Ours.

[mitchum]

185. What is this "ours" of which you speak?

[unpossibles]

106. well, it's typical that they never blame themselves for anything, but always blame others

so yes. This guy blamed others for himself being a felon and for not being able to find a job - which is admittedly difficult, but when you consider that the right sees unemployed people as being either "lazy" or "because some Mexican/black/woman took the jobs" than it's not a big stretch to see the lack of responsibility which is rampant among the right and which can lead to this sort of lashing out.

[LSK]

108. in their wet dreams it is n/t

[liberation]

157. JFK, MLK, RFK.... all liberal who went on killing sprees.

Oh, wait....


Yeah, why would anyone get the idea that some reactionaries are violent gun obsessed insane people, right?

[Recursion]

175. Dupe

I keep having two posts show up when I hit "post". It vexes me.

[Recursion]

176. Ah yes, that "reactionary" Lee Harvey Oswald.... NT

[TheCowsCameHome]

25. Check the pre-sets on his radio.

That'll tell the story.

[PADemD]

26. More info here

"Criminal records show Byron C. Williams was a parolee driving on a suspended license with an arrest history including assault, property destruction, a DUI, hit and run and theft."

http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=86854

[Demit]

60. He was certainly well-rounded.

[AlbertCat]

79. See... just a carpenter... just like Jesus...

....and a repeat violent offender who's mother kept guns because of the coming revolution.


Poor, poor put upon regular Joe.


:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

Hey... Dick Cheney can shoot anyone he wants and get away with it.... why not him? Too much Government intrusion!


:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[ProgressOnTheMove]

27. Anger is half the reason we got here to be true, those on the right choose to be emotional babies...

than thinking things through like mature adults. It doesn't prove anything having a tantrum as grown adult with a gun, it's pretty pathetic in the full context of time. There are always better ways than violence. They call us terrible things regarding abortion, these specific far right loons emotional babies who are killers. With all the good will to babies who are blameless not knowing different, but once grown a person should of adapted to more reasoned way of solving problems even the low information types.

[valerief]

29. Fox and Rush and Glen and the NRA WIN! nt

[lobodons]

32. He used 2nd Amendment remedies I see.

Just as Sharon Angle suggested. Only he targeted cops instead of elected officials.

[Submariner]

33. These Republican Teabaggers are pushing for another Civil War

Bring it on you racist cracker cowards. We'll kick your ass all over again.

[No Elephants]

98. Actually, I just may favor "losing" the next secessionist challenge.

[onehandle]

36. Where did he get the gun? nt

[slackmaster]

55. From an illegal source, without a doubt

All gun sales in California require background checks.

[Demit]

61. Both of you should read the story. It tells you.

Especially you, Mr. without a doubt.

[Recursion]

62. Delete

I swear I only hit "post" once.

[Recursion]

63. It says he stole them from his mother

So "Mr. Without a Doubt" was right.

He could be so "without a doubt" because the article says he was a felon, which means he can't legally get a gun.

[Demit]

64. Lol! I don't think so. He wouldn't have had to guess. He would've known the exact source.

[Recursion]

67. *Any* source would be illegal

Do you get that? He was a felon, so any source would be illegal, which means you don't have to have read the article to know whether the source was illegal or not.

[Demit]

71. You keep on making your irrelevant point. If nothing else, it shows dogged perseverance.

[Recursion]

73. Ummm

sure....

[SemperEadem]

124. no, actually, your deflection is weak sauce

felons may not own guns. Period. That IS the point.
so it doesn't matter how legitimate his source was--HE was prohibited BY LAW from owning firearms and body armour; furthermore, HE KNEW HE WASN'T SUPPOSED TO--EVERY EX CON KNOWS THIS.

[Demit]

148. and you should read what I wrote and not conflate it with someone else's post.

I didn't make any claim that the source of his gun was legitimate. That was something brought up by someone else.

I was initially responding to a post that asked where the gun came from. There was a poster who had already responded to the question with speculation. He obviously hadn't read the article either—or he wouldn't have had to speculate where the gun came from, he would have known. I said to both of them that if they'd read the article they wouldn't have had to ask. The article said the shooter got the gun from his mother. That's the answer to the question the poster asked. If the poster had read the article he would have known where the man got the gun. FROM HIS MOTHER. That was my only point. To read what you're commenting on before rushing to comment on it.

For you, you should learn how to follow a subthread & make sure you're understanding it correctly before you let your own little fingers fly.

[SemperEadem]

186. is someone's kid having a tantrum?

what's all that noise?

[slackmaster]

76. Just as I said, he got it from an illegal source

It was illegal for his mother to allow him access to firearms.

[onehandle]

89. So it was the property of a legal gun owner.

Illegal gun possessions start off legal somewhere.

[rrneck]

188. Until somebody else breaks the law and steals them. nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

93. Read the story. He got the guns from his mother.

And there is no evidence she owned them illegally.

[slackmaster]

94. Either she transferred them to him intentionally, which would be illegal,

Or he stole them, which would also be illegal.

The federal and state laws banning transfer of firearms to a convicted felon do not have exceptions for inter-familial transactions.

[onenote]

133. if you have a car that you own legally and someone steals it

do you think that you were an "illegal source" from which the thief got the car?

Of course not. And that's simply the point that was trying to be made -- the "source" of the guns was not "illegal", even if the possession of them by the shooter was.

[slackmaster]

134. Yes, that would be acquiring a car from an illegal source - an act of theft

The man's acquisition of firearms necessarily involved at least one illegal action per firearm.

[anigbrowl]

193. it's the act which is illegal, not the source

If you shoplift from a convenience store it doesn't mean you have an illegal candy bar. Give it up already, your argument makes you sound illiterate.

[MadMaddie]

183. His mother purchased the weapons.

[ProudDad]

194. There are numerous "licensed gun dealers"

in the country...

Just look under some rocks and anyone can get a gun...

[Bitwit1234]

39. I am so sick of this crap by republicans

"They want THEIR country back" "The are sick of what is happening". They have no body but Bush and the remaining republicans in congress to blame for blocking everything. But yet the demented ignorant A-holes blame Democrats. Republicans will never ever be satisfied unless they are in power and taking every single scrape of resources and money for themselves. Obama had such a lead over McCain they could not steal the last election like they did the previous two and that's what is fueling the rage. They can not stand to loose.

Look at how they went after President Clinton the minute he won the election. That bunch of absolute crap about Vince Foster, Whitewater etc. Democrats, altho it is not in their nature to urge hate and violence have got to figure out a way to counter act this stuff.

Look at Vitter making fun of Rachel Maddow who in my opinion is pretty, be she lesbian or not. And as for the hair, there is a heck of a lot of women who have that cut. I love it. Why hasn't he said something about Mary Cheney. He is afraid because with all that money courtesy of the trickled down or should I say gusher down from Halliburton, and it's no bid contracts, the evil Cheney might not like it,.

[Bluenorthwest]

77. People like Vitter are empowered to slander gay people

by the unfair laws, and by the bigoted attitudes of our 'allies'. Rachel might have a cool haircut, but she does not have equal rights. And both Vitter and the President say that is as it should be, because in their religion, Mr and Mrs Vitter are Sanctified, and blessed by God, whereas Rachel and her partner are strangers to each other, not family at all.
Chew on that. The President says Rachel is not worthy of equal human rights, and he says David Vitter's marriage is a Sacrament forged by the hand of God.

[Joanne98]

47. Why is it the LW's fault. We didn't cause the recession! He must listen the hate radio.

and all their BS!

[RedCloud]

54. Off with his head!

[sinkingfeeling]

58. Mother sounds like she's right there with him and addicted to Faux News.

[KansDem]

66. WTF??!!! What's wrong with these people?

Janice Williams said she kept the guns because “eventually, I think we’re going to be caught up in a revolution.” But she said she had told her son many times that “he didn’t have to be on the front lines.”

What is this? The "George W. Bush/Dick Cheney"-wannabee mindset?

I think we’re going to be caught up in a revolution--TeaBagger for Bush/Cheney's "Let's kick ass in ________ (insert "Vietnam," "Grenada," "Kuwait," "Iraq," "Afghanistan"...etc.)

...he didn’t have to be on the front lines--TeaBagger for Bush/Cheney's "...only if some other guy's kid does the 'kicking butt.'"

COWARDS!!! :grr:

[athenasatanjesus]

68. WHY do they think there are ANY jobs created by the right?

I don't care how much propaganda there is what process of logic could come to that conclusion?

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

70. this guy wasn't exactly a "thinker"

Ignorance, poverty and propaganda are a dangerous mix. I wonder how much Fox News he had been watching?

[YOY]

135. And a former convict. Did the crime. Did his time. Second class citizen for life!

And truly another prime example of "voting against one's own self interests".

[obxhead]

140. Logic, the key word in your statement.

I agree wholeheartedly.

[dana_b]

72. "what's happening to our country"

started with the Repubs!! Argh! Talk about misdirected anger. And I swear this is partially Fox News' responsibility. The crap they spew is mixed up in the heads of guys like this and then innocent people (this time the cops) are hurt.

[laughingliberal]

75. Another RW idiot. It's always been the RW who wanted to restrict voting rights of felons.

The left, for the most part, has advocated for restoring voting rights after a person's time is served. Another RW idiot supports the party who won't act in his interest.

[obxhead]

141. The Dems have done so much to stand up for the rights of

Rehabilitated and crime free felons.

:eyes:

[dana_b]

78. just heard on the news that the police

found over 100 casings. Damn! It was also his third felony - three strikes, he's out!

[Bette Noir]

80. The world has sure changed since I was a kid.

Back then, rightwingers liked the police.

[madmax]

82. Another Faux News fan. nt

[newspeak]

85. yep, another listener of the irrational, hate spewing talking heads

Remember the Universalist church shooting? How about the progressive radio jock in Colorado, shot? Then, there's the police officer in Ohio, shot by a fear crazed young man who sounds like he OD'd on hate TV, radio. Now, I still want to know why guys like Beck, Limpballs and O'Lielly are given air time over more rational talking heads? Most of the time they are illogical, they fabricate, and pander to a specific group's prejudices? Is it because it sells or are there certain influential corporate people attempting to sway a segment of the population to intentionally divide and cause mayhem? I'd say today we have quite a few wanna be Julius Streichers in this country. And, that is not a good thing-so, someone is giving more access to these history revisionist, irrational hate mongers for a reason, I smell fascism in the air and the repug party is the more accommodating party to such ideals.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

125. Don't forget Richard Poplawski in Pittsburgh.

He was the one who shot and killed three Pittsburgh Policemen because he thought that Pres. Obama would try to take his guns away.

From the Pittsburgh Channel:

Perkovic said Poplawski feared "the Obama gun ban that's on the way" and "didn't like our rights being infringed upon."

"He wasn't involved in any gangs, any militias. He believed in his right to bear arms. He believed that hard economic times were going to put forward gun bans," Perkovic said.

According to the criminal complaint, Poplawski's mother said her son "only liked police when they were not curtailing his constitutional rights, which he was determined to protect."

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/19096134/detail.html

That story died quickly once the media found that he was another RW lunatic. Now if he had espoused "liberal isms", :shrug:

[slackmaster]

84. Possible photos of suspect Byron Williams

I Googled "byron williams oakland".



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Qzd9HIsRWeA/S1s5wAhkA3I/AAAAAAAAf4I/hufASoelfsw/s320/One+Life+to+Live.jpg

[Bluenorthwest]

97. The shooter is not from Oakland

That is not him.

[Bluenorthwest]

99. The man in that photo is the liberal minister and columnist

Byron Williams, from Oakland, if I am not mistaken. If that is him, he is a pretty dang good man.

[RamboLiberal]

87. Here's a pic

In addition to his job woes, Byron was extremely upset over the U.S. political climate, often ranting at the TV about how his rights were being taken away by the government.

"He's been upset with the direction the country is going," Williams said. "He feels the people of this country are being raped by our government and politicians."

http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=86854&catid=29

[YOY]

113. Yanno with a sweet 'stache like that one I'm surprised he was a hit with the ladies!

n.t.

[SemperEadem]

126. he gave his rights away when he chose to engage in criminal activty

and got caught and prosecuted for it.

3 TIMES.

no one made that decision but him. Now he gets to live with the consequences of his actions.

What's that? He's whining and crying about having to live with his consequences? He feels he's
entitled to some kind of special treatment or something? I'm sorry, is he nobility and part of
a different set of rules than the rest of us?

That's why giving ones rights away willy nilly, like the "security mom goons" who want to turn this country into a nation of 4 yr olds is a loathesome idea.

[ooglymoogly]

129. And that's a Bingo. That picture, almost, does not need the story behind it.

And note the resemblance, that proud beaming vacuousness, that proud ignorance, to Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh, who could just as easily have fit into this picture; These are folks, mother and son and their ilk, with whom no one in their right minds would want to be in proximity.

This is a true picture of the pawns of the lunatic right, who have, with the help of their propaganda horn; the behemoth corporate MSM; Convinced and empowered these legion of ignorant folks who will pull out all the stops to believe and support the negative; And will never examine the lies told them in support of that negative lie; That all the ills of this country no matter how clearly brought on by the greed of right wing lunatics and their policies to support that greed;

Proven over and over add infinitum, to be wrongheaded stupid and destructive; And for which they have enacted laws to protect,enforce and indemnify themselves from theft and mayhem in quest of that greed, and through a convoluted smoke and mirrors scam, led these pawns and puppets to believe all the wrongs (spelled the basest form of greed) are instead, because of democratic leanings toward fairness and a leveling of the playing field.

The DLC, the DINO's and the blue dogs do nothing to dispel that misguided understanding of how things work, but instead encourage it; Being an integral part of the scam of muddying the waters of how and why we are in the mess we are in; Because money and power can be stolen under cover of the ensuing chaos of that twisting of truth into lies.

And that is the Republican party, the DINO's, the DLC and Bluedogs in a nutshell; As they are one; and yet, mysteriously, all becoming democratic at election time.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lisa0825]

92. It's REPUBLICANS' fault he can't get a job. They don't believe in reforming criminals.

Liberals want to reform them, give them a chance to learn a new skill or education while in prison, have programs to help them get re-employed when they get out. Conservatives think prison should be all about punishment. They throw fits about spending money on programs for prisoners. Well guess what happens whe you DO NOT take the opportunity to reform someone? The come out and commit more crimes because they can't adapt back into society.

Freakin' idiots.

[wordpix]

191. +1 and it's repugs who blocked extending unemployment benefits, too

[Zambero]

96. HE is what's happening to our country

Ironically, some on the right with his sort of mindset would say that being paroled from prison 2 1/2 years after a felony conviction constitutes "coddling" of prisoners. This guy must have subconsciously agreed with them, as he chose to open fire on the well-armed CHP and not the local employment office, which would have been chock full of gov't workers, easy targets who wouldn't have shot back.

[DLine]

107. Wonder if Fox will cover this

If so, what kind of spin they will give it

[lunasun]

111. Too much Beck

Don't worry there will plenty more angry unemployed voting against so called( and I could only dream ) " left-wing politicians" in NOV....
...these people are idiots that have hate put in their ear and chose to listen to it.
They make the choice to listen & agree
They are not forced to however they are idiots IMO

[Joey Liberal]

112. Too much Hannity nt

[47of74]

115. The mother sounds to be a real winner too

If you read the Chronicle's article the guy's mother had a bunch of guns - legally purchased - that she was keeping because of a supposed upcoming revolution. The son came over to her place from next door where he lived, got into the safe where she was keeping them, and took off with them.

[jgraz]

116. "We came unarmed... THIS TIME"

What the fuck do people think that meant? These assholes are domestic terrorists and need to be behind bars. Every fucking one of them.

[onehandle]

120. They're keeping the 'second amendment remedy' in their hip pocket. nt

[jgraz]

121. Well, that's close to where I suggested they keep it.

[JohnWxy]

122. Was it JOhn Boehner???

[RamboLiberal]

123. He tried to pull off a bank robbery and customers laughed him

out of the bank!

Another news story says Williams was arrested for a bank robbery in 2002. According to a Modesto Bee story from that time, one Byron Christopher Williams tried to rob a bank in Chowchilla wearing a blond wig, only to be laughed out of the branch by customers. He then allegedly robbed another bank and led police on a 100-mile-an-hour, hour long chase.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/07/upset_about_left-wing_agenda_california_man_suspec.php

[CLANG]

130. I guess he didn't have much access to news before 2008.

[orbitalman]

131. We TOLD you so. nt

[Dragonbreathp9d]

132. hmmm... I wonder what party is more apt to help ex-felons get jobs...

people voting against their own self-interest - the conservative way

[AnnieBW]

136. I wonder what his FR handle is?

Seriously. These people are DANGEROUS!

[RamboLiberal]

137. FBI joins investigation of I-580 shootout

In the meantime, FBI agents are looking into 45-year-old Byron Williams' background and the contents of his controversial diary which was seized after the shooting.

When Williams was arrested he was in possession of a high-powered rifle, a shotgun and a handgun. Authorities say he had enough ammunition on him to kill at least 50 people, but it was a notebook that brought the FBI into the picture. The contents of the notebook are still unknown, but information provided by his mother indicates he had a very serious problem with what he considered to be liberals and what they were doing to the United States.

A police robot retrieved the notebook from the shootout scene on westbound I-580 west of Grand Avenue. Its contents have the federal government joining Oakland police and the California Highway Patrol in the investigation. Authorities will not say what they believe Williams' plans were or where he was headed prior to the shootout with CHP officers early Sunday morning, but they say he was intent on hurting many people.

"The FBI is also involved because there are some circumstances surrounding his charges and his behavior that they're going to look into as well," said CHP Sgt. Trent Cross. "He may be facing some federal charges."

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=7562951

[obxhead]

138. video of the shootout..

I guess it is anyway. No idea as youtube no longer works for me. :(


http://www.oliverwillis.com/2010/07/18/tea-party-terrorism-oakland-shootout-suspect-was-angry-at-left-wing-politicians/

[Ignis]

142. Whee! I drove through that area ~1 hour before shots fired.

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than smart.

[RamboLiberal]

146. Law Enforcement says he has a history

Law enforcement sources said Williams has a history showing he is anti-government, anti-corporation and against liberal causes.

Williams, who traveled 130 miles from his Groveland home, has an extensive criminal history, including at least two felonies, and could face life in prison, Cross said.

He was arrested Sunday on suspicion of attempted murder. He was in serious but stable condition late Sunday at Highland Hospital.

His background, coupled with the presence of possible explosives, was enough to prompt the FBI to get involved in the investigation, Cross said.

"Right now, this is not being looked at as a domestic terrorism case," Cross said Sunday afternoon. "But there's more evidence to go through, and that could change."

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_15547604

[yurbud]

147. how many times have lefties done this?

I can't think of any.

[cowman]

152. Show me where in the article

it said he is a tea party member/\. I have a lot of Tea Party friends and all people are doing by labeling them as racist or violent or stupid is making them angry and more fired up to vote this nov.

[Alcibiades]

164. It said he was "angry at left-wing politicians"

The Tea Party claim they are not simply Republicans, but a broad coalition of Americans angry at the increased size of government. Sounds like a tent big enough for this guy.

Why, in their effort to leave everything unofficial and plausibly deniable, should we grant them only the benefits of their ad hoc status, but not the drawbacks?

[cowman]

180. Because all

your doing is making them more determined to vote this Nov,, is this what we want? You don't piss of the people who could vote you out of office this Nov.

[Alcibiades]

184. These folks will vote Republican no matter what we do

And they are already pissed off, and believe what they are told to believe. If they can call out the president for being "connected" to Bill Ayers, then it's certainly justifiable to ask the question of someone whose own mother says he was driven by hate of the left has been emboldened to commit terrorism by the tea party movement.

I am excited by the idea of tea party people who are decent human beings. If they are really decent, they will repudiate the hatred that fuels this kind of terrorism. How any government employee could support the tea party is beyond me. I don't think folks in law enforcement, or paramedics, or anyone who collects a check from any government entity in this country should support a movement that spews so much hatred towards government that they have inspired the crazies to go out and shoot at cops.

Even this line of reasoning, though, wouldn't work on someone who simply believes what he is told. The point is to reach moderates who are reachable, not people who are not. If the tea party movement shows itself to be unrespectable, dangerous, and something no responsible person could support, why shouldn't we point that out?

[Mimosa]

165. Right on, Cowman

Cowman, I have no friends who are tea party members. I don't even know if it is an 'official' organisation for which one can register. But all people who are conservatives are not racists.

[mitchum]

167. " I have a lot of Tea Party friends" says enough

[cowman]

179. Thats right I do

I am a Las Vegas Firefighter/Paramedic and most of my comrades are Tea Party members and they don't have a racist bone in their bodies, they are well educated, well spoken, very compassionate to their fellow citizens and I trust my life with them every time I'm on shift, I may not agree with all their political stances but I am proud to have them as co workers and friends.

[and-justice-for-all]

159. Angry at them for what??

Wanting to give them some better health care? their (trying)correcting all the fucking mistakes made by the puke admin. of the occupation of the hill?

“He hasn’t been able to get a job because he’s an ex-felon and nobody will hire him,” What the fuck! A typical puke fuckwad who has to blame some one else for his fuck ups!! go back to jail and rot you piece of shit.

[CLANG]

160. Check the house for Hannity, Beck, and Savage books.

[Kievan Rus]

162. Another wingnut goes off the deep end

[Mimosa]

166. Insanity, desperation, mental illness has no genuine political basis. n/t

[wordpix]

190. maybe not but the RW rhetoric & lies can flip out a guy like this

They should stop it!!! Why do they get airplay with their RW "get your guns, save the 2nd Amendment, start the revolution" urging on?

[NBachers]

174. He's alive. There's still a chance they can get him elected to office with a big push from the NRA

[Zorra]

192. There's a lot more hate media fueled ticking timebomb RW wackos out there.

One of 'em will kill more innocent people soon.