Crash Data Suggest Driver Error in Toyota Accidents

[NoGOPZone]

Source: Wall Street Journal

The U.S. Department of Transportation has analyzed dozens of data recorders from Toyota Motor Corp. vehicles involved in accidents blamed on sudden acceleration and found that at the time of the crashes, throttles were wide open and the brakes were not engaged, people familiar with the findings said.

The results suggest that some drivers who said their Toyota and Lexus vehicles surged out of control were mistakenly flooring the accelerator when they intended to jam on the brakes. But the findings don't exonerate Toyota from two known issues blamed for sudden acceleration in its vehicles: sticky accelerator pedals and floor mats that can trap accelerator pedals to the floor.

The findings by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration involve a sample of reports in which a driver of a Toyota vehicle said the brakes were depressed but failed to stop the car from accelerating and ultimately crashing.

The data recorders analyzed by NHTSA were selected by the agency, not Toyota, based on complaints the drivers had filed with the government.



Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703834604575364871534435744.html?mod=djemalertNEWS

[FiveGoodMen]

1. Amazingly, drivers of OTHER car brands don't exhibit the same tendency!

[elocs]

5. Really? You've studied this? An internet search proves otherwise.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/07/16/farmers.market.crash/

SANTA MONICA, California (CNN) -- An 86-year-old man who drove his mid-size Buick through a crowded farmers' market Wednesday told police he couldn't stop and may have hit the accelerator instead of the brake, Santa Monica Police Chief James T. Butts Jr. said.

Nine people were killed, including a 3-year-old girl, authorities said. The more than 54 hurt include 14 people with critical injuries, they said. Two of those critically injured are under the age of 2.

"He said that he tried to brake and he couldn't stop the vehicle," Butts said.

Police escorted the man, identified by his attorney as Russell Weller, to a local hospital where he was found to have no alcohol or psychiatric medications in his system.

This is not uncommon and has happened with many different vehicles over many years. It isn't just Toyotas.

[uncle ray]

6. actually they do.

ford crown vics in particular. just because toyota did manufacture cars with half a dozen different defects that cause the throttle to malfunction doesn't mean some drivers hit the wrong pedal for one reason or another. i know i've done it.

[greyl]

9. False.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2010/03/toyota-not-the-only-automaker-linked-to-unintended-acceleration.html

[sofa king]

13. Oh, yes they do.

This isn't even a new phenomenon. It goes back to the Audi "sudden acceleration" scam of the 1980s. Every single instance of unintended acceleration cited in the 60 Minutes report, which nearly killed Audi's operations in the U.S., was later attributed to driver error.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_unintended_acceleration

One of the things which German auto-makers did in the wake of that fiasco was to place a couple of pins in the floorboard, and holes in the floormats, so that the floormat couldn't be pushed by an inattentive driver over the accelerator pedal. It appears as if Toyota failed to incorporate that simple idea into their own designs, probably because it would cost money. Bet they wish they had done it now, but of course the "fix" is really just a way to prevent bad drivers from doing bad things, and we all know that is ultimately futile.

I think one can argue that the real problem with Audi was the German philosophy of performance-as-safety, which doesn't work in America because so many American drivers are idiots. The brake and gas pedals of the 5000 series were a little closer together than on American cars, specifically so that a qualified driver would be able to quickly switch between accelerator and brake.

American drivers, who don't need to meet the same levels of competence or training as German drivers do to obtain a license, occasionally hit the gas instead of the brake, then mashed the accelerator to the floor as the car started to move. Americans do that every day in every kind of car, but it was a little easier in Audis, and lawyers tended to drive them, so the result was a public burning at the stake in the 1980s, just as Toyota suffered in this decade.

I can see the same media game being played, too. Every time the real answer--poor driving skills--appears to get traction, a new article comes out in favor of manufacturer error. In Toyota's case, there appears to be one proven example of a mechanical problem, though I've never seen a follow-up to that report, either.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-avalon-displays-unintended-acceleration-without-floor-mat.html

The sad fact of the matter is that humans have an innate need to divert responsibility from themselves when tragedy strikes. That, I am convinced, is the real underlying reason behind unintended acceleration in the overwhelming majority of cases.

[Nihil]

14. There are few things that the American public enjoy more than a good old-fashioned witch-hunt.

The widespread belief in American exceptionalism and the lynch-mob
mentality are too engrained to be displaced by mere facts.
:shrug:

[sofa king]

19. Yep. We like our steaks rare and our burnings-at-the-stake well done.

[LostinVA]

15. Of course they do

[depakid]

17. Amazingly- you're wrong

and equally amazingly, drivers in other nations haven't reported the same problems.

Hmmm...

[Oregone]

2. Faulty Cars Fail to Detect and Record Proper Handling

[Skink]

3. I hate it when I floor the gas instead of the brakes.

happens atleast once a week.

[Blandocyte]

4. Oh, stop!

The Toyota drivers wish they could've.

[Omaha Steve]

7. The Toyota system is closed source unlike every other car maker

The US can only take Toyota's word for what the black box says happened. Up until Congress complained there was only ONE pc in the USA that could even read the data. And if there is an interference problem, we don't know what the box will even know is happening. Toyota still has some "splaining to do Lucy"!

[Bennyboy]

8. BULLSHIT< I know I watched it happen...

In New Orleans in April. Sitting on the porch of the home I was staying at, and the neighbor, trying to park her car, accelerated and then slammed into her home and then mine.

It took a three point turn to get in her driveway and she was making the last move. The car accelerated to 5o MPH (According to the police) in less than 50 feet. the streets are very narrow so there was not a lot of room. She tried braking etc but the car just slammed into the house. Skid marks on the road etc. The car was totaled completely.

She is in her 60s and has lived in the house for 40 years so she has made that move a brazillion times. This was in a Camray that was one year newer than the recall models.

And since the accident TOYOTA HAS DONE NOT A FUCKING THING FOR HER. NOTHING. I have friend that works for Toyota (in a different department)and she gave me a direct line to give to them for help but they have heard NOTHING AT ALL FROM TOYOTA.

just another fucked up corporation with lobbyists that pay off the Congresscritters to see that any danger to people is swept under the rug while protecting their profits and brand names. FUCK TOYOTA.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[snooper2]

12. accelerated to 5o MPH (According to the police) in less than 50 feet

She have a J2 Rocket strapped to the back :rofl:



https://nrich.maths.org/discus/messages/8577/7263.html?1071520520


Here's some good math for you on this thread :)
Hello,

I received a speeding ticket the other day and to build my defense I need the following information and do not possess the mathematical ability to figure this out. Could anyone please help me? I was cited for going 41 MPH in a 25 MPH zone. The officer said that he picked me up on his radar going 41 MPH almost immediately after I came to a stop and preceded. I probably advanced less than 50 feet before he clocked me at 41 MPH. I want to show the judge that it would be impossible to reach a speed of 41 MPH in such a short distance. I know this about my car which is a 1992 Honda Accord. It goes 0 - 60 MPH in 9.8 seconds. It does the 1/4 mile in 17.4 seconds. So with that we know that the car can averages 75.86 FT per SEC at 9.8 SEC to go 0-60 MPH and we also know that the car traveled 743.45 FT to reach 0 - 60 MPH in 9.8 seconds. What I want to know is how many feet would the car have to travel to reach a speed of 41 MPH and if possible how many seconds would it take. I know we are probably missing some acceleration info here, but anything logical and close that I could show or prove to the judge with math would be a great help for my defense. I am not guilty and the officer refused to show me his radar reading to prove to me I did this. Thanks

---------------------------


60 MPH = 88 feet per second.

So the acceleration in feet per second is 88/9.8 = 8.98 ft/s2.

In most cars, the acceleration is not constant over the range 0-60 MPH, but if it were then you could solve the equation

50 = (8.98/2)t2

to find the time, t, it takes the car to reach the 50-foot mark. That time is about 3.3 seconds. In 3.3 seconds, your speed reaches 8.98*3.3 = 30 feet per second, or about 20.4 MPH.

While you have the accelerator pedal fully depressed, a Honda Accord stays in first gear until about 40 MPH, and so the acceleration is much higher than the average over 60 MPH. But the acceleration would have to be greater than that of gravity for you to reach 41 MPH in just 50 feet. If the cop was right, and if you really stopped at that stop sign (you did stop, right?) then you would have gone from zero to 41 in just 1.66 seconds -- quite an exhilarating ride!

If you can prove that your speed was clocked just 50 feet from the stop sign, and you can prove that you stopped at that stop sign, then you can prove that the acceleration your car experienced during that 50 feet far exceeds the capacity of a standard Honda Accord. Here are the equations:

Let a be the acceleration, in feet per second, of your car.
Let t be the time, in seconds, that elapsed from the stop sign to the 50-foot mark, where you were going 41 MPH, or 60.1333 ft/s.
These two equations relates a and t, given that you accelerated smoothly from 0 to 60.1333 ft/s, and traveled 50 feet doing so:

(1) 50 = (a/2)t2
(2) a = 60.1333/t

Since you were in first gear the whole way, and the torque generated by the Honda Accord is fairly constant over that range, the smooth acceleration is a reasonable approximation.

Substituting 60.1333/t in place of a in the first equation, we get

50 = 30.0667t

so t = 1.66 seconds

From the second equation, we find a = 60.1333/1.66 = 36.16 ft/s2, which is quite a bit greater than the acceleration of a Honda Accord.

Now, as a practical matter, you may find it difficult to prove that the reading was taken just 50 feet from the stop sign -- that's probably no more than the width of the street you crossed. If the reading were taken, say, 50 yards instead of 50 feet from the stop sign, then your whole case is toast. I think you stand a much better chance of acquittal if you argue that the cop didn't take a measurement of your car at all. Your evidence is that he did not show you the reading. Good luck!

[RantinRavin]

16. No car can accelerate that fast

Not even a Formula 1 race car can accelerate to 50mph in 50 feet.

[One_Life_To_Give]

20. Check 60ft speeds at dragstrip

Actually purpose built racing vehicles can exceed 50mph in 50ft. Would take a vehicle capable of a 10 second standing quarter with appropriate Drag Slicks.

Doing it with a Front Wheel Drive car that can't beat 0.7G's acceleration is another story though.

[Lance_Boyle]

18. And your (faulty) anecdote trumps the NHTSA data how, exactly? n/t

[SLCLiberal]

11. Sadly...

My ex GF of seven years was just in a horrific accident in a new Toyota last month. Last I heard she was on a ventilator and was alive. I don't know much more than that, but they have a lawyer and kept the Toyota (what is left of it) as evidence. Her car was going 85 when it hit an electric pole taking it down. The posted speed limit was 35 MPH. She never would sped like that, and all evidence points to her car accelerating on it's own. I pray she lives every night, and I hope the family sues Toyota for as much as they can.