STOCK MARKET WATCH, Tuesday July 13

[ozymandius]

Source: du

STOCK MARKET WATCH, Tuesday July 13, 2010

AT THE CLOSING BELL ON July 12, 2010

Dow... 10,216.27 +18.24 (+0.18%)
Nasdaq... 2,196.45 UNCH (UNCH)
S&P 500... 1,078.75 +0.79 (+0.07%)
Gold future... 1,205 +6.60 (+0.55%)
10-Yr Bond... 3.06 -0.01 (-0.29%)
30-Year Bond 4.04 -0.02 (-0.37%)

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Market Conditions During Trading Hours

Euro, Yen, Loonie, Silver and Gold

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Bush Administration Officials Convicted = 2
Names: David Safavian, James Fondren

Bush Administration Officials Charged = 1
Name(s): Richard Lopez Razo

Financial Sector Officials Convicted since 1/20/09 = 11

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This thread contains opinions and observations. Individuals may post their experiences, inferences and opinions on this thread. However, it should not be construed as advice. It is unethical (and probably illegal) for financial recommendations to be given here.

Read more: du

[ozymandius]

1. Today's Reports

08:30 Trade Balance May
Briefing.com -$39.5B
Consensus -$39.4B
Prior -$40.3B


14:00 Treasury Budget Jun
Briefing.com -$69.0B
Consensus -$70.0B
Prior -$135.9B

http://www.briefing.com/Investor/Public/Calendars/EconomicCalendar.htm

[Po_d Mainiac]

14. Actual trade deficit $42 billion plus change

Seems that the only export that we had working was "debt" and the foreign appetite for that has gotten indigestion.
:shrug: Who coulda known?

[ozymandius]

2. Oil extends losses, drops below $75

SINGAPORE – Oil prices fell below $75 a barrel Tuesday in Asia as investors looked for fresh signs of a growing U.S. economy from second quarter corporate earnings reports.

Oil prices have danced around the $75 level for about a year as the global economy rebounds from last year's recession but growth in developed economies remains sluggish. Burgeoning U.S. crude inventories and weak demand have kept investors from bidding oil higher.

Traders took some heart from Alcoa Inc.'s second-quarter profit of 13 cents a share, which beat analysts' forecast by one cent. Alcoa, the largest U.S. aluminum producer, is usually the first major company to report earnings, and it said late Monday that revenue rose to $5.2 billion, more than analyst estimates.

In other Nymex trading in August contracts, heating oil fell 0.68 cent to $1.9845 a gallon, gasoline dropped 0.35 cent to $2.0245 a gallon and natural gas rose 2.0 cents to $4.408 per 1,000 cubic feet.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices

[ozymandius]

3. CSX 2Q profit jumps with improving economy

NEW YORK – Railroad CSX Corp. said Monday a "dynamic" U.S. economy, combined with an across-the-board improvement in shipping volume and higher prices, drove its second-quarter profit up 36 percent.

CSX, the third-largest railroad in the country, is the first among its peers to report earnings for the April-to-June period. Railroads' performance is an important window on the economy because trains carry so many things that consumers and businesses use every day — from clothing to cars.

Shipping volume was up in every CSX category in the three-month period, except food and consumer shipments, which were flat. Shipments of vehicles and parts jumped the most — 63 percent compared with last year. U.S. auto sales slowed in June after a string of positive months, but they were still significantly above brutal 2009 levels.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100712/ap_on_bi_ge/us_earns_csx

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I wonder how those rail car cemeteries out west are looking today?

[hamerfan]

8. My brother works for Union Pacific RR

Things aren't overly rosy there, according to him....

[ozymandius]

31. Thanks for that.

I wonder how their types and quantities of cargo measure now versus the past two years.

[AnneD]

42. I have been noticing a pickup in traffic....

mainly hauling gravel. I think it may be for the big road work projects in Dallas. It has actually been interfering with traffic in some parts of Houston.

[ozymandius]

4. Rates on Treasury bills fall at weekly auction

WASHINGTON – Interest rates on short-term Treasury bills fell in Monday's auction to the lowest levels in three weeks.

The Treasury Department auctioned $30 billion in three-month bills at a discount rate of 0.150 percent, down from 0.165 percent last week. Another $30 billion in six-month bills was auctioned at a discount rate of 0.200 percent, down from 0.205 percent last week.

The discount rates reflect that the bills sell for less than face value. For a $10,000 bill, the three-month price was $9,996.21 while a six-month bill sold for $9,989.89. That would equal an annualized rate of 0.152 percent for the three-month bills and 0.203 percent for the six-month bills.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100712/ap_on_bi_ge/us_treasury_bills

[ozymandius]

5. Fed to release new dealer credit survey on Tuesday

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The Federal Reserve said on Monday it will release on Tuesday the results of a new quarterly lending survey based on terms and conditions in the securities financing and over-the-counter derivatives markets.

The survey is modeled after the long-established Senior Loan Officer Opinion Survey on Bank Lending Practices, which provides qualitative information about the changes in supply and demand for loans to households and businesses at commercial banks.

The new poll surveys approximately 20 securities and derivatives dealers, which the Fed said accounts for almost all of the dealer activity in dollar-denominated securities financing and OTC derivatives markets. It may be expanded to include other firms over time.

The U.S. central bank said the survey aims to provide qualitative information on terms and conditions in markets which are "important conduits for leverage in the financial system" outside of traditional bank lending.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100712/pl_nm/us_usa_fed_survey

[ozymandius]

9. Small companies denied credit as big firms thrive

WASHINGTON – Big companies are building up cash and are expected to report strong earnings starting this week. Not so for small businesses that can't get loans — or hire freely until they do.

The gap helps explain why the economic rebound isn't stronger and could even stall. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke stepped up pressure Monday on banks to break the logjam and lend more to smaller firms, which employ at least half of American workers.

Small business owners are relying on personal credit cards or raiding retirement accounts to stay afloat, the Fed chairman said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100712/ap_on_bi_ge/us_bernanke_small_business

[rfranklin]

6. "Fairy tale season is about to begin"

The double life of Wall Street
Commentary: Masking debt mars earnings season -- and analysts don't help
By David Weidner, MarketWatch
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Fairy tale season is about to begin.

Wall Street banks and brokerages are readying second-quarter numbers for mass digestion. They'll show healthy balance sheets, tolerable risk levels and have all the trappings of well-run companies.

Don't believe a word of it.

If the second quarter is anything like quarters of the past couple years, risk is up and capital is down. And what you'll see on earnings day bears little resemblance to the business being conducted between the bookends of the start and end of the latest quarter. After all, Wall Street is an industry built on prevaricating for clients -- Enron Corp., Greece and Parmalat Spa (MILAN:IT:PLT) to name a few -- why would it come clean with its own financials?

-more-

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/story/print?guid=D4EE5D74-A811-48E1-9C56-8FAEFB8B2ADF

[AnneD]

7. Morning Marketeers...

:donut: and lurkers. Forth rec...who else is up?

Well, times are becoming interesting. I was rear ended last week, before I even had a chance to put on the metal tags on the car. God's funny way to get me over the fear of getting a scratch on my new car I guess. No one was hurt and we both had insurance. The kid admitted guilt and was really nice so I asked the officer if he really had to issue a ticket. He said it was up to me, so I asked him not to-she was a Texas NG and I just didn't have the heart.

I got to drive the rental up to visit my brother last week and we planned our trip next week. We will be going up to the Cherokee Nation capital in Talequah Oklahoma this month to get my paperwork processed for me to get a card for myself and my daughter. It will be a trip into our past. We want to go to some of our childhood haunts. Sadly, most of our relatives have passed so it is just cousins but that is ok.

As you know, my school has been turned into an internal charter school. The bad news is that I have longer hours. The good news is I get paid. The even better news-it is a big bump. We will really be ahead and the raise figures to boost my retirement pay too.

Well, happy hunting and watch out for the bears.

[hamerfan]

10. Congrats, AnneD!

Good to hear someone is getting ahead these days. Have a great trip next week.

[ozymandius]

28. I am glad you folks were okay.

Congratulations Anne on the positive developments at work and with your family. The trip to Oklahoma is sure to be a blast.

As always, thank you for the update.

:hi:

[AnneD]

41. Getting away to Dallas last week.....

was a good thing. We had two weeks worth of rain. We totally caught up on our annual rain fall. I know folks, esp the PC crowd rag on us for all the pick up trucks and SUV's folks drive here, but we get mini monsoon downpours here and you frequently need a high profile vehicle to venture through flooded streets safely.

The trip is special because not only do we get to go back to our roots, We are celebrating my brother's 5th year of sobriety. We are so proud of him. It is nice to have my brother back-we were always close as children and he got to know our Grandparents very well in their later years. (I was in college). I will post on the trip when I can. It should be interesting.

[Juneboarder]

53. Congrats on the job changes :)

Such a positive thing to happen with all of the turmoil.

I have only been through OK once. Drove I-40 from Vegas to Grand Rapids and really wished the sun had been up while driving through. The people were genuinely nice, and Cracker Barrell's a plenty! :) Too bad the sun had set before I entered the state and I left the state before sunrise; it would have been nice to enjoy the scenery.

[Po_d Mainiac]

11. page 2... Continued from yesterday

At the end of yesterday we had a mortgage that had been bundled off to Wall St. Not only bundled, but now part of the basis for a grade AAA bond.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4461188&mesg_id=4461473

Fuhgeddabout that little thing about the borrower having no down payment or a snowman’s balls chance in Hell of being able to make a payment. If it defaults, all the other loans will keep the cash flowing. If it goes full term into foreclosure, the increased value of the property will more than make up for legal and doc fees.

The reason this is a “sure bet”, as compared to more “conventional” investment instruments, is Misters Greenscum and Bumhanky have set interest rates at “shit and shoved in it” levels. (technical term for low). Setting low Fed rates gave people the idea that the best way to preserve wealth was to spend and spend some more. If you saved, inflation and taxes would burn into the principle faster than a volcano.

The banksters on the other hand knew this shit had it’s limits. JPM and GS were dumping these bonds as fast as they were printed. They also used the bonds to create “synthetic” instruments (derivatives) that were based on hard assets worth less than used toilet paper. But this was “AAA” rated soiled paper. They found villages in Europe willing to take equity loans against hydro dams, and “invest” the borrowed cash into this stinking paper. Retirement funds only had to see AAA and gladly turned over real money for organic land mines (dog shit).

Could these blow up and come back to haunt the executive bathrooms? Naw, at the same time they found this guy named Cassano at AIG (who was dumber than a box of rocks) that would insure the stuff for pennies on the hundreds. The technicals behind these derivatives were such that no one could understand them (other than a few banksters). Greenscum would refer to them as “innovative” meaning “what the fuck do I know” All Cassano could see was a big bonus at the end of the year because they had “sophisticated models” that could determine what the loss ratio would be on any given AAA rated bond. Having any money on hand in case the model was of by say a few hundred percent, was out of his pay grade.

The FBI was well aware that fraud taking place throughout the system (liar loans, phony appraisals, crooked lenders, etc. but their white collar crime force was decimated in the name of “Homeland Security.” Who coulda known that all those ads promoting interest only loans, HELOC’s for up to 125% of home values and no money down would be far more devastating than any terrorist act post 9/11. The FBI had something like 35 agents doing what 450 did prior to 9/11.

So now we’re at the stage where real money is pouring into the investment banks in return for turds, and the cops have been taken off the beat.

To be continued

If you missed this from yesterday, more good stuff from DemReadingDU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4461188&mesg_id=4461827

[Ghost Dog]

Excellent...

... although there's a "principle" that should read "principal" (" The capital or main body of an estate or financial holding as distinguished from the interest or revenue from it."), and a stray "of" that should read "off".

No, grammar is not trivial; nor is what is very clearly presented and explained here.

[DemReadingDU]

16. Thanks for explanations!

A lot of the world seems to have thought these were a great way to receive maximum returns. City governments and school districts in the U.S. also bought these fraudulent bundles. Pensions and mutual funds are exposed to them too. It will be a nightmare when these all implode because there is not enough real money to bailout everyone. Yikes!


Also from yesterday, read the story about IBM Robert Moffat who got involved with Danielle Chiesi, a former teenage beauty queen, a woman for whom business information was the ticket to gratification. She liked older men, and she enjoyed pushing their buttons. "I love the three S's," she would tell them. "Sex, stocks, and sports."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4461188&mesg_id=4461803
http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/06/news/companies/ibm_insider_trading.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2010070617

[Po_d Mainiac]

51. That was quit the story.

Us males would be way ahead of the game, it there was only one head doing our thinking. Er...Hmm.. I mean If all the thinking was done by the head with the two ears stickin out of it.

[Tansy_Gold]

21. What IS a derivative?

I know it's "synthetic" but I don't know what it is.

Walk me through a hypothetical "derivative." No bankster terminology, no sarcasm. Just walk me through what it is.

Walk me through what a "bond" is. How does a mortgage that was "enabled" with the intention that it would default become a bond? What's the difference between a stock and a bond?

I'm your ignorant "independent" voter who doesn't understand this stuff and can't see how it affects me. I know for a fact that it was all those "illegals" who bought houses on liar loans who caused the stock market to crash, and if I'm gonna vote for a Dem this time, you better explain to me why I should.



Tansy Gold, playin' at bein' a lurker

[Dr.Phool]

33. Well, we know (or think) that it's derived from something.

We just can't figure out what.

The first time I heard of them was in the late '90s, and was still living in Cleveland. The County Treasurer lost about $100 million in county funds investing in them.

Even though he claimed they actually turned a bigger profit than that in previous years, they still ran him out of office on a rail.

I still don't think he knows what they're derived from either.

[Po_d Mainiac]

35. No sarcasm? Geez this is gonna be tuff.

A simple MBS or a bond.

I'm a bank and I got $X to lend that depositors have placed into my trust. After I lend to 5 people to buy houses I don't have any more left to lend. (Can't pay back the depositors either, but I got Sheila covering my ass like a diaper)

There are whole bunch of illegals that want to buy houses, but without any money I'm SOL Re: getting that business. So I sell a bond based on the value of the mortgages.

I take the loan values added up and sell them to whoever has the cash. The bonds have a set value plus a yearly increase in worth based on the yearly premium I'm willing to pay. As long as the interest I'm collecting on the notes, minus the interest I'm paying to the depositors is higher than the yearly premium I'm paying the bondholder, I'm making money and have the same $X in hand that I can lend to the illegals that need a roof over their head...But of coarse, now I'm "leveraged"

I'm happier than a pig in the poop as long as the money I lent out, gets paid back.

A simple derivative (this is the shit that Buffett referenced as "financial instruments of mass destruction") could be based on that same bond. Buster the Bouncer thinks that some of the borrowers will default. Granny and her bridge club, are certain those fine borrowers will pay back every nickel on time. They draw up a contract and watch the cash flow.

now this is where TSHTF with derivatives

The bridge club is spot on. The mortgagees are paying their bills right on schedule and to be on the safe side are putting off buying snowmobiles and SuperBowl tickets.

This ain't working for Buster though. So he weights his options. He can talk to the good mortgagees, after they are all liquored up, and convince them to buy rounds for the house with the money the would pay to the banker. That might cause them to default, which would make his bet with the bridge club ladies pay off. Or he can live up to his nickname and bust the legs on the primary wage earners. If the AFLAC duck ends up on the table, even better.

The bond is based on tangible assets.

The derivative is based on "what if" and if we wanted to make it "synthetic" we could write up an instrument based on how long it would take for the legs to heal.

Tansy now cut the crap...If you are an ignorant voter, there ain't nothing in the world that will keep you from voting for Phailin in 0-12

[Po_d Mainiac]

36. BTW Goldman wrote this swap contract refered to above.

To make certain that the outcome went a certain way; they gave Buster an industrial laxative, stuffed him into a weighted shoebox and dumped him in the East River

[Tansy_Gold]

38. No, I'm absolutely serious about this

I've got several friends who were enthusiastic Obama supporters two years ago. They read the Arizona Republic, the Mesa Tribune, USA Today. They watch local but not much national news on TV, no Fox, maybe a little CNN.

They have no clue what a derivative is. They asked me -- and I can't tell them because I don't know.

They believe Obama is bailing out the banks and have asked me if that's true -- I can't say it isn't.

They're hearing that Social Security is going broke and will be cut -- they're all retirees and concerned about this and Medicare.

Some of them believe the entire housing collapse was due to poor people lying about income to get houses they couldn't afford. I have told them of my own personal experiences when I worked for the cities of El Mirage and Surprise, Arizona, in the early years of the boom and my own personal experience living for 18 years in Buckeye, Arizona, leading up to the boom and then the bust. It's not that they don't believe me -- it's that they get much more information (?) from the other side.

They are against the failed war in Afghanistan and do not believe boooosh was justified in invading Iraq. They think Sarah Palin is dumber than, well, than the dumbest member of our group (who is pretty damn dumb, and even SHE doesn't like Palin! though she does believe Obama was born in Kenya and that Joe Arpaio is going to save all of us from the hordes of headless illegals invading our border. I kid you not.).

They have children in their 20s, 30s, 40s who are losing stable jobs. They don't understand why Obama hasn't done anything to "fix" the economy, and these are people who understand the loss of manufacturing jobs to China and other cheap-labor markets.


Most of these people know absolutely nothing about economics/banking/etc. Some have some stocks, some have some 401k investments, but none of them are savvy at all. Hell, *I* am not savvy!

So let's start over. No sarcasm.

Hypotehtical Bank of Apache Junction has $1,000,000 on deposit. They lend it out to 10 borrowers, $100,000 each, to buy houses in 2000. All the money is gone, into the hands of the developers of Eagle Rock Ranch housing development out on Baseline and Geronimo.

The depositors are insured by FDIC, so they don't have anything to worry about, but they need to have access to their funds for day-to-day transactions, so BAJ has to get that money back.

The loans have an ultimate value -- in round numbers -- with interest payments over 25 years of $2,500,000. BAJ can sell those mortgages outright to another lender, say Royal Bank of Phoenix, and split the profit. So BAJ sells the 10 mortgages to RBP for $1,250,000. Way less than what they would have got eventually, but they got the profit up front. RPB paid more, but they're in it for the long haul. They've got more on deposit, have already made substantial profits, and they see this as a good deal. BAJ is now clear on those mortgages, RBP is on the hook if they go bad.

BAJ did so well on these, that they decide they want more profits. They can lend out the $1,250,000 again, but they have expenses, and they can't tie up every cent in mortgages if they want to keep their depositors liquid.

So they sell "bonds." Bonds aren't like stock because they don't convey any ownership, and rather than "dividends" paid out of profits, bonds have a fixed interest rate. And the income from the sale of the bonds comes directly to BAJ.

However, BAJ has a legal obligation to pay that interest, and they also have to establish a reserve to pay off the principal on those bonds. The bonds are actually a debt -- the buyers of the bonds are "lending" their money to BAJ for a set period of time, just as if they were a bank lending it to a fellow bank.

So far, everything is on the up and up, right?

And has Tansy Gold got anything wrong so far?


I'll check back after I have coffee with the aforementioned . . . . voters.

[Po_d Mainiac]

43. clearify

Is the Eagle Rock Ranch housing development out on Baseline and Geronimo a finished product, or a spot of bare terra-firma with a bulldozer parked in the middle? If the houses are up and ready for occupancy then they are a "hard" asset and marketable. If they are currently just an architects wet dream, then the loans fall into a different asset class altogether
...............
leverage ratio?

The banks used to hold $1 in cash for every $13 (approx) that they had in loans. This was ample funding unless a massive run was made on the institution in which case the bank would call a "holiday" and the FDIC would show up with enough cash to quell the storm.

The leverage ceiling is now off the charts
.............
You are good on the bonds, maybe....kinda sorta

The bank could cover with general issue bonds, but "securitizing" specific mortgages/loans is what Fannie, Freddie, and the "investment" banks do. Your neighborhood thrift does not enter into this practice.

[Tansy_Gold]

55. The hypothetical Eagle Rock Ranch is "real"

In the example I used, these are real houses on real land, because that's how the housing bubble developed, pardon the pun.

Eventually, some of those hypothetical borrowers will refinance to pull cash out of the equity in rising home values, then later some will default, but I haven't taken the scenario that far along just yet.

Paid work calls and so does a huge pile of laundry!




TG, NTY

[tclambert]

57. You're forgetting leverage

If BAJ has $1 M in deposits, they will write checks for $10 M in mortgage loans without hesitation. How can they write checks for funds they don't have? If you did it, you'd be arrested. But they are a bank. They count the loan as an asset on their books. Then the banks all wink at each other and honor their checks. So writing ten million in loans with only 1 million in real assets gives a leverage ratio of 10 to 1. See, that way they can make ten times as much on the loan interest. If someone doesn't pay up, they have the house as collateral to protect their paper assets.

There's some risk if people can't pay on their loans, like if there's a lot of jobs lost, and if housing prices go down. Under the right circumstances, the bank could lose far more money than they ever had in deposits. But the risk of that is usually small.

The risk goes up if regulators allow the banks to build up leverage ratios of 30, 40, 70 to 1. At 70 to 1, a tiny hiccup in the housing market could threaten the bank's solvency.

Come to think of it, I'm not sure how to calculate the threat. Their losses on mortgages seem like they'd be paper losses against paper assets. As long as they hang onto the actual money deposited, they have real assets. They wrote bogus checks to start with, fabricating money out of thin air. They defend that by backing it up with a house that secures the loan. Essentially, the bank owns the house. The borrower buys the house from the bank on an installment plan. There must be some point at which a bank has to pay some bill with real money.

[Po_d Mainiac]

59. Great Point and addition

I didn't forget about it.....post #35 ...3rd paragraph. Just didn't want to go there yet. Since you did a top notch explanation you just saved me some time....

What you left out is banks either use their receivables as collateral at the Fed discount window or with other banks. With Fannie and Freddie they just move the whole nine yards off the balance sheet and take commission payments, underwriting fees, etc. and start all over

[Tansy_Gold]

61. You're jumping ahead in the story and you're losing me n/t

[Po_d Mainiac]

58. Hellova list you got going

And I never learned to type with more than a couple fingers.

SS..The excess payroll withholding's paid into SS is held in trust in the form of Treasury notes. The SS trust fund is one of the largest (maybe the largest) holder of US goobermint debt. We are very near the point where the fund will be taking in less money than it pays out. But the balance sheet looks great.

How is the treasury going to pay back the trust fund?????????????? (Hello big hairy primate)

Through general fund appropriation, increasing payroll taxes, or issuing new debt. Either benefits will drop, other Federal expenditures/programs are lowered, the debt ceiling increases or taxes go up. There could also be any number of combination's. (Just to keep the whack jobs happy, I'll mention the death squad option also..)

IMHO (and I have not read of this anywhere) Treasury will default on the SS trust fund therefore erasing the debt from the balance sheet. Good or bad thing? I don't think it would make any difference, other than to the banksters. This would be deflatioary and play right into the scheme that Smith was writing about (and what got this whole side show started)

How would this fit the banksters mold????
Deflation would move the bond yields lower. If the yields are lower the trade price on the issue increases.
PLEASE NOTE: There is no change on the value of a treasury bond that has a fixed interest rate, and maturity date unless it is traded prior to maturity

This we be covered when this story ends somewhere on a future SMW thread...Geez I am writing a damn book

[Tansy_Gold]

60. No, no. no. Don't get into how SS is funded/paid/leveraged or

anything else. At least not yet.

And yes, we ARE writing a book.

I just wanta take things from the beginning of the boooosh-era housing bubble (2000, which is when my 10 borrowers got their mortgages from Bank of Apache Junction) through the derivatives and CDOs and CDSes and so on, defining and contextualizing each of these elements of "the markets" so we -- you, me, my goofy friends, The Lurkers, and all the washed masses out there -- really understand what's going on.

SS will eventually come into the picture, but not yet.


TG

[Hawkowl]

62. Derivatives

Derivatives are side bets, often referred to as "options". Originally invented to provide a guaranteed price on a commodity to serve as insurance, mostly for farmers.

Now days, you can by an "option" or a derivative on just about anything. In the mortgage market, Wall Street knew that their synthetic bundled mortgages were shit. So the bought derivatives from an insurer,(placed a side bet with their bookie AIG,) that a lot of these mortgage backed bonds were going to shit the bed big time. (Synthetic debt instruments, synthetic because a 100 pieces of different mortgages doesn't make a single solid mortgage. How can 10% of a mortgage in someone's home be repossessed and resold? I mean how many people are going to repossess one bedroom and half a bath as collateral?).

In fact Goldman was betting on a huge market blowup as indicated by them keeping the share of most toxic mortgage backed bonds' (call it a "tranche"), for itself knowing, the likelihood of failure. Goldman then bought derivatives to cover the failure of these tranches and stood to make more money off the default than if they had to hold all these tranches to maturity. I mean who the fuck wants to wait 30 years for a mortgage to pay off? That's risky. Better to crash the system and get paid now. Goldman does this all the time to other countries sovereign debts, oil futures, food futures, so they are very good at it.

The only problem that almost, just almost, screwed Goldman, was the fact that their "bookie", AIG, didn't have the cash to pay off on the bet, (debt), placed by Goldman et al.

This is why Henry Paulson (former CEO of Goldman), Geithner, etc. panicked and had the taxpayers pay off AIG, so that Goldman and others could collect on all the bonds they engineered to fail. So disaster averted, Goldman Sachs survived to continue destroying the world by deliberately selling shit, betting against it, and damn well making sure the shit failed so they could bleed taxpayers dry.

These tactics are virtually identical to the mafia's scam known as a "bust out". Except on a much more massive scale.

(I hope this was helpful. Any errors are mine as this was extemporaneous.)

[wordpix]

63. thank you, very interesting story for us interested novices trying to figure it out

[Tansy_Gold]

65. It was helpful

But it covered too much ground.

"Options" and "derivatives" and "futures" all sound about like the same thing, and that's getting ahead of the game. Remember, I'm dealing with people who don't know even as much as *I* know, and that ain't much. ;-)

For example, a "derivative" is a "side bet," but how is it handled? Who "places" the bet? Who sets the odds? Who pays off? How? When? I'm still trying to get the whole mortgage issue nailed down, and this is about 10 or 15 steps further down the financial crisis road!


TG

[Hawkowl]

66. Specifically

The derivatives we are specifically talking about, i.e; those "derived" from the bundled mortgages that caused the meltdown, are simply an insurance policy issued by AIG (among others, AIG being the largest) which agrees to pay off a certain benefit if the security (bundled mortgages) default. The duration of the derivative (insurance policy), the price of the derivative (premium) and the payout (benefit) is agreed upon beforehand by the parties involved. Unlike commodity futures, or stock futures, there is no governing body or central exchange for these derivatives (bets). They are outside the law (and Wall Street has lobbied so that financial reform will not affect this fact.) It truly is like going to a bookie and negotiating odds, payout, prices, everything. It is an agreement between a gambler (Goldman Sachs and others) and their bookie (insurance companies).

It may be 10 steps down the road in our minds, but it was the FIRST step in Goldman Sachs planning. You figure on how to rig the game, before you start the game. They never, ever would have created these toxic bundled mortgages if they didn't plan on profiting from their failure.

[Po_d Mainiac]

49. If you own a stock, then u own a piece of the company

If you own a bond with that same company, the company owes you. In essence the stock holders owe u, since they are the company.

Thus the reason that bond holders, of companies that shit the bed, (technical term used in place of "filed lots of paperwork with minus signs on it) get paid before the stockholders.

[DemReadingDU]

69. bookmarking this entire discussion

it's great, thanks!

[Roland99]

23. I'm riveted so far!

[Po_d Mainiac]

12. Official thread to wave to Demeter, We know u is out there

:hi:

[DemReadingDU]

13. Hello to Demeter!

:hi:

[hamerfan]

15. Hello, Demeter!

:hi:

...In your own good time...

[Tansy_Gold]

17. HI! HI! HI!

:hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi:

[Roland99]

18. Bonjour!!

[Hugin]

19. Hiyas Demeter!

Oh, my... I hope Demeter hasn't experienced a Fugue State! :worry:

:hi:

[bread_and_roses]

20. hello hello Demeter!

I've only been able to stop in here a minute or two for a week - life. Hope you are well. Hope to see you soon!

[Dr.Phool]

26. Hi Demeter!

:hi:

[ozymandius]

29. You are valued here.

:hi:

[Festivito]

40. Take a good break.

Read well. Post well. Above all, live well.

[mbperrin]

44. I got up late, but here's a double wave to Demeter!

:hi: :hi:

[amandabeech]

52. Hello, Demeter!!!

Hope that you are doing okay!

:hi:

[tclambert]

56. Hello, Demeter

:hi:

[ozymandius]

22. Good morning all.

:donut: :donut: :donut:

Family activity is cranking up for the day. Thank you all for tending to the updates and the reports. I miss spending time here with you. Vacation, rare as it is, has been so much fun.

[Roland99]

24. Engines are firing on all cylinders, ready for a big blast off at open.

[Po_d Mainiac]

25. It's official. My version of a handheld communication device

is as good as an iPhone!

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/electronics/2010/07/apple-iphone-4-antenna-issue-iphone4-problems-dropped-calls-lab-test-confirmed-problem-issues-signal-strength-att-network-gsm.html

And I carry a rock. But damn if it don't get immediate attention, when the call is placed properly.
:hide:

[TalkingDog]

32. Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark... I mean geeks don't mind a bit of duct tape

but as a status symbol, well, not so much.

[AnneD]

45. I just got my first paycheck.....

from my summer school. I have everything paid for the month and then some. I decided to buy an iPAD. Frankly, I could not be happier. I love it. It has enough features and is so portable. I have been having so much fun with it. I love my mac but I am crazy about my iPAD. It is great for techniphobes.

I haven't bought an iPHONE because I hate ATT. We have been with TMobile for years and do not intend to change.

[TalkingDog]

50. Apple is removing links to consumer reports info

from it's website.

I'll see if I can find the link for that story....

[Roland99]

27. Triple digit opening! Woooooooo! Par-tay!

Dow 10,337 +121 +1.18%
Nasdaq 2,218 +20 +0.90%
S&P 500 1,089 +11 +0.99%
GlobalDow 1,813 +19 +1.07%
Gold 1,216 +18 +1.48%
Oil 76.66 +1.71 +2.28%

[Festivito]

30. Debt: 07/09/2010 13,193,854,880,648.02 (UP 1,620,030,333.81) (Fri)

(Down a little. Good day.)

(Debt under Obama seems to jump up big then drop slowly maybe up a little and down a little for days--repeat.)
= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 8,639,253,753,800.78 + 4,554,601,126,847.24
DOWN 134,583,926.15 + UP 1,754,614,259.96

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 310-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.23 THAT'S 1B$, and $3,229.56 makes 1T$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.69, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 13 seconds we net gain another American, so at the end of the workday of the report, there should be 309,639,870 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html ON 04/09/2010 15:49 -> 309,034,742
Currently, each of these Americans owe $42,610.32.
A family of three owes $127,830.97. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 22 reports in the last 30 days.
The average for the last 22 reports is 6,713,921,130.79.
The average for the last 30 days would be 4,923,542,162.58.

There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 174 reports in 253 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging 7.33B$ per report, 5.07B$/day so far.
There were 249 reports in 365 days of FY2009 averaging 7.57B$ per report, 5.16B$/day.
There were 193 reports in 282 days of FY2010 averaging 6.65B$ per report, 4.55B$/day.
Above line should be okay

PROJECTION:
There are 926 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 14.5 and 18.0T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
07/09/2010 13,193,854,880,648.02 BHO (UP 2,566,977,831,734.94 so far since Obama took office.)

FISCAL YEAR DEBT CHANGE, Sep 30 prior year to Sep 30 named year:
(One "* " for each 40B$ reached)
FY1994 +0,281,261,026,873.94 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1995 +0,281,232,990,696.07 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1996 +0,250,828,038,426.34 ------------* * * * * * WJC
FY1997 +0,188,335,072,261.61 ------------* * * * WJC
FY1998 +0,113,046,997,500.28 ------------* * WJC
FY1999 +0,130,077,892,735.81 ------------* * * WJC
FY2000 +0,017,907,308,253.43 ------------WJC
FY2001 +0,133,285,202,313.20 ------------* * * C&B
01-WJC +0,053,598,528,417.78 ------------* WJC 31% of FY, 40% of FY-Debt
01-GWB +0,079,686,673,895.42 ------------* GWB 69% of FY, 60% of FY-Debt
FY2002 +0,420,772,553,397.10 ------------* * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2003 +0,554,995,097,146.46 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2004 +0,595,821,633,586.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2005 +0,553,656,965,393.18 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2006 +0,574,264,237,491.73 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2007 +0,500,679,473,047.25 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2008 +1,017,071,524,649.92 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2009 +1,885,104,106,599.30 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * B&O
09GWB +0,602,152,152,000.60 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB 31% of FY, 32% of FY-Debt
09-BHO +1,282,951,954,598.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO 69% of FY, 68% of FY-Debt
FY2010 +1,284,025,877,136.30 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO
Endof10 +1,661,948,387,073.58 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Linear Projection

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
06/18/2010 +000,218,467,463.90 ------------********
06/21/2010 -000,091,646,713.41 ---- Mon
06/22/2010 -000,064,399,407.68 ----
06/23/2010 +000,605,957,540.69 ------------********
06/24/2010 -003,383,268,122.91 --
06/25/2010 +000,258,141,060.04 ------------********
06/28/2010 -000,856,644,286.03 --- Mon
06/29/2010 +000,753,506,197.45 ------------********
06/30/2010 +077,231,903,487.92 ------------**********
07/01/2010 -006,671,631,742.50 --
07/02/2010 +000,460,030,174.48 ------------********
07/06/2010 +000,075,213,990.44 ------------******* Tue
07/07/2010 +000,013,416,608.65 ------------*******
07/08/2010 +011,830,915,605.93 ------------**********
07/09/2010 -000,134,583,926.15 ---

80,245,377,930.82 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008 while Bush was in power JUST BEFORE fiscal year end.
Bush admin borrowed $962,245,245,654.01 in those last 124 days in office crossing two fiscal years.
$360,093,093,653.42 in last 12 days of FY2008, and $602,152,152,000.59 in subsequent 112 days before leaving office.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
DUer primer on National debt

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4461188&mesg_id=4461217

[Festivito]

54. Debt: 07/12/2010 13,194,523,014,378.23 (UP 668,133,730.21) (Mon)

(Down a little. Good day.)

(Debt under Obama seems to jump up big then drop slowly maybe up a little and down a little for days--repeat.)
= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 8,639,110,153,263.24 + 4,555,412,861,114.99
DOWN 143,600,537.54 + UP 811,734,267.75

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 310-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.23 THAT'S 1B$, and $3,229.35 makes 1T$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.69, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 13 seconds we net gain another American, so at the end of the workday of the report, there should be 309,659,808 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html ON 04/09/2010 15:49 -> 309,034,742
Currently, each of these Americans owe $42,609.74.
A family of three owes $127,829.21. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 21 reports in the last 30 to 31 days.
The average for the last 21 reports is 7,300,690,175.29.
The average for the last 30 days would be 5,110,483,122.70.
The average for the last 31 days would be 4,945,628,828.42.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 174 reports in 253 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging 7.33B$ per report, 5.07B$/day so far.
There were 249 reports in 365 days of FY2009 averaging 7.57B$ per report, 5.16B$/day.
There were 194 reports in 285 days of FY2010 averaging 6.62B$ per report, 4.51B$/day.
Above line should be okay

PROJECTION:
There are 923 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 14.5 and 18.0T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
07/12/2010 13,194,523,014,378.23 BHO (UP 2,567,645,965,465.15 so far since Obama took office.)

FISCAL YEAR DEBT CHANGE, Sep 30 prior year to Sep 30 named year:
(One "* " for each 40B$ reached)
FY1994 +0,281,261,026,873.94 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1995 +0,281,232,990,696.07 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1996 +0,250,828,038,426.34 ------------* * * * * * WJC
FY1997 +0,188,335,072,261.61 ------------* * * * WJC
FY1998 +0,113,046,997,500.28 ------------* * WJC
FY1999 +0,130,077,892,735.81 ------------* * * WJC
FY2000 +0,017,907,308,253.43 ------------WJC
FY2001 +0,133,285,202,313.20 ------------* * * C&B
01-WJC +0,053,598,528,417.78 ------------* WJC 31% of FY, 40% of FY-Debt
01-GWB +0,079,686,673,895.42 ------------* GWB 69% of FY, 60% of FY-Debt
FY2002 +0,420,772,553,397.10 ------------* * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2003 +0,554,995,097,146.46 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2004 +0,595,821,633,586.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2005 +0,553,656,965,393.18 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2006 +0,574,264,237,491.73 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2007 +0,500,679,473,047.25 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2008 +1,017,071,524,649.92 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2009 +1,885,104,106,599.30 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * B&O
09GWB +0,602,152,152,000.60 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB 31% of FY, 32% of FY-Debt
09-BHO +1,282,951,954,598.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO 69% of FY, 68% of FY-Debt
FY2010 +1,284,694,010,866.50 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO
Endof10 +1,645,309,873,565.87 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Linear Projection

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
06/21/2010 -000,091,646,713.41 ---- Mon
06/22/2010 -000,064,399,407.68 ----
06/23/2010 +000,605,957,540.69 ------------********
06/24/2010 -003,383,268,122.91 --
06/25/2010 +000,258,141,060.04 ------------********
06/28/2010 -000,856,644,286.03 --- Mon
06/29/2010 +000,753,506,197.45 ------------********
06/30/2010 +077,231,903,487.92 ------------**********
07/01/2010 -006,671,631,742.50 --
07/02/2010 +000,460,030,174.48 ------------********
07/06/2010 +000,075,213,990.44 ------------******* Tue
07/07/2010 +000,013,416,608.65 ------------*******
07/08/2010 +011,830,915,605.93 ------------**********
07/09/2010 -000,134,583,926.15 ---
07/12/2010 -000,143,600,537.54 --- Mon

79,883,309,929.38 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008 while Bush was in power JUST BEFORE fiscal year end.
Bush admin borrowed $962,245,245,654.01 in those last 124 days in office crossing two fiscal years.
$360,093,093,653.42 in last 12 days of FY2008, and $602,152,152,000.59 in subsequent 112 days before leaving office.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
DUer primer on National debt

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4462721&mesg_id=4462881

[TalkingDog]

34. Yesterday: Here and Now on NPR did a story on the wheat (commodities) bubble

http://www.hereandnow.org/2010/07/rundown-712/#2 (freee podcast)

Between 2005 and 2008, the price of food worldwide rose by 80 percent, causing food riots in more than 30 countries. Frederick Kaufman writes in July’s cover story in Harper’s Magazine that Goldman Sachs and other Wall Street banks may have had something to do with it- by causing a food bubble by creating new commodities index fund in the 1990s that may have led to excessive speculation. Kaufman is a contributing editor at Harper’s Magazine, he’s also professor at the city University of New York Graduate School of Journalism


http://harpers.org/archive/2010/07/0083022 You can't read it here unless you are a subscriber.....
But here is a link to a portion of Goldman's response to the story: http://frederickkaufman.typepad.com/

A 2009 Harper's story (free to read) from the same author that is has the seed elements (if you will) for this story: Let Them Eat Cash. http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/06/0082533



We were going to the bank and listening and the thing that made the Spouse screw his face up (and he's not a scrunchy type) was the projection of an over 400% increase in food prices due to this type of trading.

[DemReadingDU]

37. I found the direct link to The Food Bubble

I followed your links above to Kaufman's website. He is getting noticed around the world. Thanks!

direct link to Kaufman's article (PDF) that was in Harpers
http://frederickkaufman.typepad.com/files/the-food-bubble-pdf.pdf


7/12/10
Here's a link to Goldman's self-serving response to "The Food Bubble," a simmering serving of swill concocted by Steve Strongin, Goldman's Head of Global Investment Research.
http://frederickkaufman.typepad.com/frederick_kaufman/2010/07/link-to-goldmans-letter.html
direct link to letter
http://www2.goldmansachs.com/our-firm/on-the-issues/viewpoint/viewpoint-articles/letter-harpers.print.html

[Dr.Phool]

39. In 2007-08, when we bought our pizza joint in Tampa

We started out paying between $7.25-$7.50 for a 50# bag of high gluten flour. We made all of our pizza dough, rolls, buns and bread from it. We went through about 6-700 pounds per week.

Within about 3 months the price had risen to $33-35 per bag. Almost a 500% increase in the price of flour. That was also right at the time when gas shot up to over $4.00 per gallon, and all of our suppliers started adding on fuel surcharges for deliveries.

At that time, the dollar was also tanking in relation to every other currency on earth. We used a lot of imported products, such as canned tomatoes from Italy to make our sauce. That skyrocketed too. I even switched to a cheaper vodka to ease the pain because the price of Stoli kept going up!

I got out of the business, and my partner sold it about 8 months later. I don't know what the prices are now, but, if they're going up another 400%, we're truly screwn.

[AnneD]

47. I know from the ag end of the problem.....

there is no way short of catastrophic harvests that will cause flour to go up that much in that short a time frame.

But here is something for you to chew on. There was a organic dairy farmer down the road from my brother. The government came down and strong armed him into selling his cows. Seems like they were emitting too much methane. So for the sake of the staying within the air quality limits, he had to pack up and move to New Mexico. All the cattle the government bought had to be destroyed. He could keep the farm-he just couldn't have a dairy operation. So much for going local. He hasn't sold the land yet but it should be great farmland.

One of the reasons for the trip to Oklahoma is to look for farmland. He will be selling his farm, Dallas is too close. If this country goes to crap, I would rather be out of the country but if not there, I would rather be under tribal law

[wordpix]

64. just keep selling the farmland near cities to keep BigOil happy

you've got to truck in the food from long distances. Grow local, buy local and turn those empty lots into community gardens. That's the way to save the country---go back to our agrarian roots

[AnneD]

68. No argument here.....

we are considering going out further.

[Hawkowl]

48. Very good program

I only listened to part of it, because I knew the story and it was making me an angry driver. It was a very well done, easily comprehensible story that squarely made the case against Goldman et al.

I would certainly volunteer for the firing squad assigned to meet out justice on GS.

[Po_d Mainiac]

46. Dollar vs Euro down...markets up....yawn

[hamerfan]

67. At the close

Dow... Up 147 to 10,363
NASDAQ... Up 44 to 2,242
S&P 500... Up 17 to 1,095

Par-Tay is right. The hangover comes soon....