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Ed Barrow Donating Member (585 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 06:25 PM
Original message
Pope battles secularization, 'eclipse of the sense of God'
Source: USA Today

Pope Benedict XVI is creating a new Vatican office to fight secularization and "re-evangelize" the West — a tacit acknowledgment that his attempts to reinvigorate Christianity in Europe haven't succeeded and need a new boost.

Benedict announced the new office during a vespers' service Monday, confirming reports in the Italian media of a handful of new Vatican appointments expected to be announced before the pope goes on summer holiday and the Vatican bureaucracy slows down.

Benedict said parts of the world are still missionary territory, where the Catholic Church is still relatively unknown. But in other parts of the world like Europe, Christianity has existed for centuries yet "the process of secularization has produced a serious crisis of the sense of the Christian faith and role of the Church."

The new pontifical council, he said, would "promote a renewed evangelization" in countries where the Church has long existed "but which are living a progressive secularization of society and a sort of 'eclipse of the sense of God.'"



Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-06-30-secular29_ST_N.htm?csp=15
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Haven't succeeded? Ha! His and his Church's response to the child abuse scandal has made it worse.
Keep it coming, popey. The seeds of your destruction are contained within you.
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. if they'd kept their seed within them, perhaps they wouldn't be self-destructing!
:evilgrin:

(sorry - couldn't help it...)
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. LOL! Clever!
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
28. Yes-- Mounting Up on 6 years old boys
That's the key Ratzo !!!
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brooklynite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Why does he need an Office?
Can't he pray for we heathens to be converted?
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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. And clowns like Phoney Mahoney ain't helping!
Ol Cardinal Mahoney even admits in a deposition that he did the pedophile shuffle. And because he's a solid Republican he gets off scot free. He SHOULD be in jail for the rest of his life...
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. Perhaps the world no longer wants your type of god
and your narrow views of the world.
Secular and religion are two different things,
his church has a very hard time understanding that concept.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. Too bad that Curch-State thingy hasn't worked out for ya'
Perhaps he should sell some of that expensive kitcsh brik-a-brac laying around the Vatican instead.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. More little boys!
We must have more little boys!

And if they survive the Church, the military can have a crack at them.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. To fulfill the cannon-fodder requests of the Princes
and to do those menial chores that are beneath the elites.
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lanlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. yeah, that'll work
As if creating a new office headed by yet another old Italian guy will solve everything.
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Moostache Donating Member (905 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. Suggestions to the Pope:
1) STOP molesting little boys and turn over anyone who did for summary justice!
2) QUIT gay-bashing and homophobic edicts WHILE CROSS-DRESSING YOURSELF!
3) REALIZE that women (about 52% of the total population) are EQUALS to men!

If you cannot fully implement 1,2 & 3 quickly and permanently then you are 2 generations away from small freakish cult status. My parents were raised Catholic in the 1950's and 1960's (Pre-Vatican II and immediately after). They were the last generation in my experience to really buy into the church's teachings.

I was raised Catholic in the 1970's and 1980's and NO ONE I know REALLY believed ANY of it after the 5th grade...right about the same time we all stopped believing in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. I would not bring my children to a Catholic Church or a Catholic School unless the Public schools were shut down and I was unable to home school them.

I went to Catholic schools all my life.
I heard all the whispered insinuations that we were getting a "better" education than the Public school kids.
I eventually went to college and learned that this was (along with everything else taught and discussed inside the church) a load of crap.

I had sex when I was 14. I knew people who had sex when they were 12 and 13. We stole cigarettes and booze in the 7th grade - my best friend getting so intoxicated that he urinated on the foot of his parents bed and myself coming home and falling down the stairs to my room, then vomitting on myself and scaring the hell out of my then 7 year old sister (who thought I was dying instead of baby-sitting). In both cases, we had drinking binges and unprotected, pre-martial sex because of the nauseating phobias surrounding both in school.

We saw out parents get liquored up. We knew that drinking alone would not kill you any more than breathing. We knew about sex and had a natural curiosity about it. But instead of finding frank and open discussions about it, we had the stone wall of "mortal sin" and celibate priests to discuss it. The entire thing is insulting. My eighth grade class was so bad that the school canceled the annual trip to Washington D.C. for fear that we would do things that would embarrass the church. We did not care. All of us, every single one, was so bored by church lies and doctrine and myth that it was a joke.

To this day, 25 years later, I have absolutely nothing but contempt for the Catholic church. It is a part of my immigrant history and heritage, but it will NEVER again be part of my life. And until they address the 3 complaints I lodged at the very top of this pointless rant, I will actively dress them down at every single opportunity.
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activa8tr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. I love your post. Yes, your suggestions are all what he needs to do
if he expects the church to survive another 100 years.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #9
26. Oops - posted in wrong spot n/t
Edited on Fri Jul-02-10 05:41 AM by myrna minx
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
34. couldn't agree more
your three points are exactly why I am not interested in the church and haven't been since, well about 7th to 8th grade (same as you).
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-04-10 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
36. +666 nt
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
10. He is just pissed off that...
The Vatican does not have the authority to cover up crimes committed by the church like CHILD RAPE! And like many if not most Christians in this country they want to control the education systems in this country that cause people to think!

I would say the Pope is losing the battle in Europe but the Christians in America are definitely winning the battle for minds in America!

Just look at the recent poll that showed more than 40% of Americans believing that their demi-god will return by 2050! And the poll that clearly shows the tens if not hundreds of million dollars spent by Christian groups to capture the minds of Americans is working as planned...The annual poll that shows what % of Americans understand that all life on planet Earth evolved going from 41% denying evolution in 1994 to over 60% today!

We are clearly going backward in America! Or if you are like most Christians in America then we are headed in the right direction. Next to go will be women's rights and then it will be like a snowball rolling downhill getting bigger every foot it travels with no way to stop it!
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harry_pothead Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
12. When's the pope gonna start battling pederasty?
Edited on Tue Jun-29-10 08:15 PM by harry_pothead
That would be a nice start.

EDIT: The Catholic Church is a business. Nothing more, nothing less. From the article:

"On Monday, the Vatican sought to clarify the role of the Congregation, acknowledging that with such a complicated portfolio of real estate there could be "errors of valuation and fluctuations in the international market."

In a statement, the Vatican said it had over the years realized the need to improve profitability and run the office more professionally and with higher standards."
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. What is Ratzo planning for us now? A new Crusade?
Kill all the infidels? The RCC has done that already, several times over!
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
14. As long as the west supports public eduction
and research and scholarship, the pope will lose more and more power and control, because educated people can examine the issues themselves and find out about the lies of the pope.

a link to a post with a link about this very issue.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8622538&mesg_id=8624991

this is a good thing.

Scalia called Europe "post-Christian" in his lamentation about the reasons European nations don't put people to death. man, all the fun goes out of it when you can't have the inquisition, I guess.

what's happening now is ever so much nicer than what happened when the church's corruption brought a huge backlash in France during their revolution.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
15. By "secularization" does he mean "democracy" by any chance?
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. That's the code word alright.
To be more explicit, Freemasonry. Since Freemasons were very prominent in the founding of the US, the vatican has a special place in it's heart for us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaesitum_est


More detail here:

http://www.masonicdictionary.com/humanum.html

-snip-

13. In those matters which regard religion let it be seen how the sect of the Freemasons acts, especially where it is more free to act without restraint, and then let any one judge whether in fact it does not wish to carry out the policy of the naturalists. By a long and persevering labor, they endeavor to bring about this result-namely, that the teaching office and authority of the Church may become of no account in the civil State; and for this same reason they declare to the people and contend that Church and State ought to be altogether disunited. By this means they reject from the laws and from the commonwealth thewholesome influence of the Catholic religion; and they consequently imagine that States ought to be constituted without any regard for the laws and precepts of the Church.
-snip-

22. Then come their doctrines of politics, in which the naturalists lay down that all men have the same right, and are in every respect of equal and like condition; that each one is naturally free; that no one has the right to command another; that it is an act of violence to require men to obey any authority other than that which is obtained from themselves. According to this, therefore, all things belong to the free people; power is held by the command or permission of the people, so that, when the popular will changes, rulers may lawfully be deposed and the source of all rights and civil duties is either in the multitude or in the governing authority when this is constituted according to the latest doctrines. It is held also that the State should be without God; that in the various forms of religion there is no reason why one should have precedence of another; and that they are all to occupy the same place.
23. That these doctrines are equally acceptable to the Freemasons, and that they would wish to constitute States according to this example and model, is too well known to require proof. For some time past they have openly endeavoured to bring this about with all their strength and resources; and in this they prepare the way for not a few bolder men who are hurrying on even to worse things, in their endeavor to obtain equality and community of all goods by the destruction of every distinction of rank and property.

-snip-

26. In like manner, no one doubts that all men are equal one to another, so far as regards their common origin and nature, or the last end which each one has to attain, or the rights and duties which are thence derived. But, as the abilities of all are not equal, as one differs from another in the powers of mind or body, and as there are very many dissimilarities of manner, disposition, and character, it is most repugnant to reason to endeavor to confine all within the same measure, and to extend complete equality to the institutions of civic life. Just as a perfect condition of the body results from the conjunction and composition of its various members, which, though differing in form and purpose, make, by their union and the distribution of each one to its proper place, a combination beautiful to behole, firm in strength, and necessary for use; so, in the commonwealth, there is an almost infinite dissimilarity of men, as parts of the whole. If they are to be all equal, and each is to follow his own will, the State will appear most deformed; but if, with a distinction of degrees of dignity, of pursuits and employments, all aptly conspire for the common good, they will present the image of a State both well constituted and conformable to nature.

-snip-

35. In the third place, there is a matter wisely instituted by our forefathers, but in course of time laid aside, which may now be used as a pattern and form of something similar. We mean the associations of guilds of workmen, for the protection, under the guidance of religion, both of their temporal interests and of their morality. If our ancestors, by long use and experience, felt the benefit of these guilds, our age perhaps will feel it the more by reason of the opportunity which they will give of crushing the power of the sects. Those who support themselves by the labour of their hands, besides being, by their very condition, most worthy above all others of charity and consolation, are also especially exposed to the allurements of men whose ways lie in fraud and deceit. Therefore, they ought to be helped with the greatest possible kindness, and to be invited to join associations that are good, lest they be drawn away to others that are evil. For this reason, We greatly wish, for the salvation of the people, that, under the auspices and patronage of the bishops, and at convenient times, these gilds may be generally restored. To Our great delight, sodialities of this kind and also associations of masters have in many places already been established, having, each class of them, for their object to help the honest workman, to protect and guard his children and family, and to promote in them piety, Christian knowledge, and a moral life. And in this matter We cannot omit mentioning that exemplary society, named after its founder, St. Vincent, which has deserved so well of the lower classes. Its acts and its aims are well known. Its whole object is to give relief to the poor and miserable. This it does with singular prudence and modesty; and the less it wishes to be seen, the better is it fitted for the exercise of Christian charity, and for the relief of suffering.

-snip-

Lots more in the document and other Papal Bulls.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Love those Papal Bulls--!! UN and others are still trying to get Vatican to rescind . . .!!!
Also trying to get them to sign the "Confession of Guilt and Co-Responsibility for

the Jewish Holocaust in Germany" --

simply based on their 1,100 year oppression of Jews in the Papal States by isolating them

in Jewish Ghettos, barring them from education, careers, professions -- and not permitting

them to mingle with other citizens freely!

The French -- "all are created equal" -- began to close Jewish Ghettos -- and finally the

Italians came in and closed the remainder of the Jewish ghettos and moved the Vatican back

into the area they now occupy -- 1 square mile -- all male dominated nation.

After stewing for a while and steaming over "democracy" . . . the Pope emerged and set

himself up as "infallible." Democracy is still the enemy of the church -- as was until

Pope John XXIII and Vatican II.

Anyway after the throwback by Italy, the Vatican raged on against the Jews for another

100 years of some of the vilest and most sickening propaganda ever written!

And then we wonder why Europeans were so anti-Jewish and how the Holocaust could have

happened there?

I will save the links you gave me for another time -- thank you!

Freemasons, etal -- do you read Jim Marrs?
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. "do you read Jim Marrs?"
Not familiar with his work, but I will look him up, Thanks.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. Actually, I think from time to time Discovery Channel has him
on when they do some of the Freemason type stuff -- etal --

He has a book in paperback now -- "Rule by Ritual" -- came out about 10 years ago, I think!

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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
17. Ratzo is just pissed the RCC --
can't rule the governments and lives of people the way they did for hundreds of years.

Many of us have disovered the Church is irrelevant to true spirtuality and connection to "god". Tough nuts, Ratzo.
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Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
19. Translation from pope-ese: Where all the little WHITE boys at? n/t

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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
20. Pope defends his job and the business organization he runs. nt
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AngryOldDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
21. All he needs to do is this.
Teach Christ's simple message of "love thy Lord thy God with all thy soul, and love thy neighbor as thyself." That's it. That is Christ's message.

The rest is crap. Which is why the Catholic Church is failing to get anywhere anymore trying to sway the masses.
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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
23. Catholic Church is well-known all over the world for pedophile crime, Mr. Pope.
Until you yourself start accepting your own sexuality, Mr. Pope, your flock will suffer from twisted manifestation of repression and suppression and oppression. God is greater than what you can imagine, because God is Love and you have no idea what that is! Amen....
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 05:42 AM
Response to Original message
27. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition. n/t
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callous taoboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
29. "Progresssive secularization?" Music to my ears.
I didn't used to be as anti-religion as I am now in my 40's, and my own progression is due, in large part, to having to deal with a lot of underhanded garbage from colleagues who can't get over the fact that I am a non-believer.
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Politicub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
30. Nice use of the word "Eclipse" with the new Twilight movie out
Would the pedophile priests be team Edward or team Jacob?
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
31. It may be more accurate to say the Catholic Church
is not felt to represent the emotional and spiritual needs of people and that in their increasing awareness of that failure, people have rejected the authority of the Church.

The Church asserts moral authority but retains an inflexible and rigid world view to which they demand followers adhere, but the day-to-day, moment-to-moment, person-to-person world is more urgent. In many cases, people will do what they have to do before they will do what an abstract authority tells them to do.

The Church, as usual, seeks to demonize "secularism" as an encroaching evil which undermines the authority of the Church. But there are god-seekers (small 'g') who have found a sense of the divine (small 'd') in alleyways and abandoned lots and exiled wayfarers.

Until the Church includes all venues and all persons, it hasn't earned the authority it says it's owed.
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Blue For You Donating Member (466 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
33. Breaking KNN (Khemet News Network) 7/2/2010 b.c.e. :
"Pharaoh Ben-edict-hotep XVI battles secularization, fears eclipse of sun God Re." Stay tuned for hieroglyphs at 11.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-03-10 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
35. As if his Diabolic Majesty, Biggie Ratz, would have any real concept of godliness or divinity.
Hitler must be so proud of his little follower.
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