Utah firing squad executes convicted killer

[Divine Discontent]

Source: AP

DRAPER, Utah – Utah prison officials say a firing squad has executed convicted killer Ronnie Lee Gardner.

The 49-year-old Gardner was shot by a team of five anonymous marksmen with a matched set of .30-caliber rifles early Friday. Gardner, who had a white target pinned to his chest and was strapped to a chair, was pronounced dead at 12:17 a.m. A corrections spokesman had earlier said Gardner's time of death was 12:20 a.m. but corrections department Director Thomas Patterson later corrected the record.

Gardner is the first person to be executed by a firing squad in the United States in 14 years.

Gardner was sentenced to death for a 1985 capital murder conviction stemming from the fatal courthouse shooting of attorney Michael Burdell during a failed escape attempt. He was at the Salt Lake City court facing a 1984 murder charge in the shooting death of a bartender.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100618/ap_on_re_us/us_utah_firing_squad;_ylt=AgMWQ3HOq_l9pvpmQ.v.ZsNv24cA;_ylu=X3oDMTM5ZjFkMDAyBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwNjE4L3VzX3V0YWhfZmlyaW5nX3NxdWFkBGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bGFyBGNwb3MDNARwb3MDNARzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3JpZXMEc2xrA3

---

hope all involved in the execution enjoy those shiny coins that'll be minted for them!

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10547305

[bliss_eternal]

1. so what, we're a turn of the century, european country now...?

:wtf:

a firing squad? bloody firggin' hell...!

[Divine Discontent]

2. he chose that type of death. Utah's the only state that does it. he said it had less room for error

still, I am anti-death penalty. I find it abhorrent what he did, yes. But I also find it disgusting that as a culture we execute people. Also, it's comical that state funds are used to design commemorative coins and pins to give to the staff who does a bang up job of killing people!

[saigon68]

4. the staff who does a bang up job of killing people

sick fucks

[Divine Discontent]

6. exactly. what a morbid job. I would hope they don't enjoy it, but I know better. :(

I know several guys who took others lives in wars, they did not enjoy it, but sadly, there's plenty out there who love killing when they know they're expected to kill, or are given approval to kill - like these riflemen. My Vietnam buddy gets a bit emo about what he saw in action, and I would think a good man or woman would care about what they saw or did.

To give them coins to commemorate their jobs is bizarre.

[pattmarty]

26. No, not bizarre. It is fucking Alice in Wonderland insane.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

5. I heard he chose it because

He wanted someone to clean up the mess.

(Also, he's succeeded in exposing this barbaric practice, which is something he wanted to do as well)

[Ilsa]

73. That's what I read on BBC World News. Utah offered this form of execution as "Blood Atonement"

per LDS beliefs:

"In Mormonism, blood atonement is a controversial doctrine that teaches that murder is so heinous that the atonement of Jesus does not apply. Thus, for a person who has committed these sins to achieve godhood, they must have their blood shed upon the ground as a sacrificial offering. Originally taught by Brigham Young, possibly constructed from teachings of Joseph Smith, Jr., the doctrine is still recognized within Mormon fundamentalism; however, the doctrine is not presently in force within mainstream Mormonism." -- Wikipedia (yeah, I know, they aren't experts, but this is a decent writeup and it is consistent with what I read about it ages ago from a good source.)

[bliss_eternal]

94. ah, well...

...if that's the case, that's actually quite brilliant. i'm shocked, appalled and very unhappy that this form of execution was resurrected. though it may have been more effective to have all the pro-dp folks clean the mess. ;)

[bliss_eternal]

91. thanks, Divine Disconnect....

....i hadn't had a chance to read about the situation as of yet. i appreciate hearing it was the request of the prisoner. but i'm still appalled. and like you, i don't support the dp.

commemerative coins...?! egad. (sigh)

[KDLarsen]

3. Try mid-20th century..

I get the point, but just to be pedantic: Denmark and Norway both used firing squads to execute those sentenced to the highest penalty in the post-war legal purges.



That was one of the two sheds they used in Denmark.

[bliss_eternal]

92. oh my...

:scared: ...i do appreciate the correction and information. (sigh) this is incredibly disturbing to me. :(

[jmowreader]

7. I think EVERY state should change to the firing squad. Seriously.

We now have the lethal injection. You know, they give you a shot and you drift silently to sleep, never to return. (Which is total bullshit and we all know it; they never seem to be able to give you enough of the first drug to keep you asleep while the other two drugs are killing you, so you wake up not being able to move or breathe. That'd have to be some scary-ass shit.) Jurors don't seem too troubled by it.

If we blew fist-size holes in the middle of people's ribcages, like they did with this asshole, juries are going to pay more attention...or they'll decide the guy should wash sheets for the rest of his life instead. Remember, France kept the guillotine right up until they abolished capital punishment for just this reason: to make the jury really think hard about whether the convict needed to die. Moreover, they explained to the jury exactly what was going to happen in very graphic detail. No one got sentenced to death in something like forty years.

Incidentally, I would MUCH rather be shot than injected if I had to be executed: they strap you in a chair, stick a target on your chest and blow you away. There's no way to fuck it up (unless four guys all miss, and that's not likely--the five men who pull the triggers are all chosen for their ability to shoot), and there are PLENTY of ways to fuck up lethal injection.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

8. Also, televise all executions -- and in prime time, not at midnight

An execution is the state acting as an agent for its citizens, being directed to do what they have told it to do. Any citizen should be willing to step up and pull the trigger, inject the poison, throw the switch, play the Kenny G. CDs -- whatever the preferred form of execution is for that jurisdiction. To say, "I'm all for the death penalty," and then not be willing to do the deed yourself is the height of hypocrisy. It's like the chicken hawks in Congress who are more than willing to make others fight in their wars. It's so much easier to talk about the nobility of war when you don't have your ass on the line.

[Jamastiene]

12. The Kenny G. CDs would be cruel and unusual punishment.

The rest of those options would look MUCH LESS cruel compared to THAT. :wow:

[Javaman]

30. I dated someone years ago that loved that crap...

that's why she's an ex.

[pattmarty]

28. Don't delude yourself. There would be a lot of fucking people............

..........that would watch on TV and probably just as many sick fucks "volunteering" to do the deed. Jesusfuckingchrist, with all the RW nuts (teaparty-ers?) walking around today the government would have to start a fucking lottery for the shooters.

[Historic NY]

32. It would have high Nielson ratings...this isn't any different than the blood & gore movies...

of Hollywood fantasy world. Old Star Trek did an episode on televising an execution.

[Hubert Flottz]

9. I think lions would be a far better deterrent.

[Kringle]

11. juries are well aware of the consquences of their actions . nt

[Theobald]

22. Not Quite

The last time someone was executed in France by the Guillotine was 1977 and capital punishment was outlawed in 1981, so I don't no where you got your 'like forty years' from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillotine

If I were to be executed I would prefer the guillotine; quick and relatively painless.

[superconnected]

45. I'd go for freezing to death - the victim feels hot and gets happy at the end.

[pjt7]

10. Justice was served.

taxpayers $$ was saved. A murder was removed from the Earth.

[OnlinePoker]

15. Nonsense.

The cost for going through the whole process, from trial through appeal to execution, with extra costs associated with guarding death row prisoners is astronomical compared to spending a full life sentence in general population. Gardner spent 26 years on death row. Think how much extra money it cost to keep him segregated for that length of time.

http://deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

The death penalty is state sponsored murder.

[Loki]

19. State sponsored murder

killing is killing...period. The only reason the religious right loves the death penalty, is they need more fuel for their state sponsored killing machines like we have here in Texas in Huntsville, the Execution Capitol of the World. We have probably executed more innocent people than we have guilty in this country throughout it's history before DNA testing. I'm not sure we have a moral compass any more. When I hear the eye for an eye crowd wailing and gnashing their teeth, I remember the quiet voices of those who have lost loved ones to violence and speak of forgiveness and taking another life isn't justice it's revenge and they choose not to live with that on their conscience or soul. I often wonder why Christ preached about forgiveness and turn the other cheek and love those who hate you ,when those who profess to follow him act as if those ideas and words were never spoken.

[saigon68]

34. There's a lot of sick fucks on this website

[bliss_eternal]

95. didn't gw have a lot to do w/the stats in texas...?

...he executed quite a few while he was governor, didn't he?

i recall the cosby's specifically requested that the dp not be sought for the murder of their only son. they don't believe in dp.

[burnsei sensei]

17. Vengeance was served.

Justice was wronged.

[geek tragedy]

18. The guy killed someone while trying to escape from prison.

How is his death unfair?

[burnsei sensei]

21. There are people who

oppose the death penalty on principle, not on contingency.
I'm one of them.
To me, it's like torture.
Wrong in this case. Wrong in every case. Period.

[geek tragedy]

67. Wrong, but not unfair. nt

[daleo]

107. How can something be wrong yet still fair?

Your statement cries out for explanation.

[stevekatz]

23. +1

[lynne]

13. At least he had the option of choosing how to die. His victims didn't have that luxury -

- I hope that the families and friends of the victims find some measure of peace now that it is over. Hard to feel sympathy for someone who chose to kill and then chose how he wished to die.

[Zoeisright]

40. Thanks for posting the standard response from the other side.

Do you have anything original to add?

[Llewlladdwr]

42. Do you?

Or simply more handwringing for violent criminals society is frankly better off without?

[lynne]

65. Obviously what I posted was true -

- as you chose to throw a cheap shot instead of debating what I posted. Hard to debate the truth, isn't it? :crazy:

[emilyg]

102. What other side.?

[daleo]

108. It won't bring back the dead.

This notion of closure or peace seems very unlikely to me. I believe Jesus thought so too.

[2Design]

14. boy and we are called an advanced nation - gawd - killing in any form is killing n/t

[burnsei sensei]

16. Another day of state-sponsored killing.

And another instance of the mis-reading of blood atonement by the ever-imaginative Mormons.

[customerserviceguy]

20. And another day of hand-wringing

by people who put cold-blooded murderers in the same category as the victims of those murderers.

Anyway, the reason he got this sentence is that he committed his last crime in a courtroom. Bleeding heart judges often feel they're immune from the violence perpetrated by the scum whose sentences they have to decide, but Gardner's crime hit a little too close to home.

[BR_Parkway]

24. I wonder how an anti-choice, all life is sacred sort of person can be

involved in this?

To know that you may have been one out of the five....

[eowyn_of_rohan]

25. Why do Dick Cheney and Tony Hayward come to my mind...

shame on me

[Buenaventura]

27. how 'bout stoning? die stoned!

[Javaman]

29. Gary Gilmore's eyes - The Adverts.

I'm lying in a hospital,
I'm pinned against the bed.
A stethoscope upon my heart,
A hand against my head.
They're peeling off the bandages.
I'm wincing in the light.
The nurse is looking anxious,
And she's quivering in fright...

I'm looking through Gary Gilmore's eyes.

The doctors are avoiding me.
My vision is confused.
I listen to my earphones,
And I catch the evening news.
A murderer's been killed,
And he donates his sight to science.
I'm locked into a private ward.
I realise that I must be...

Looking through Gary Gilmore's eyes.

Looking through Gary Gilmore's eyes.

I smash the light in anger.
Push my bed against the door.
I close my lids across my eyes,
And wish to see no more.
The eye receives the messages,
And sends them to the brain.
No guarantee the stimuli must be perceived the same...

When looking through Gary Gilmore's eyes.

Gary don't need his eyes to see.
Gary and his eyes have parted company.

[Bluenorthwest]

31. I recommend the book 'Shot In the Heart'

By Mikal Gilmore, brother of Utah executed murderer Gary Gilmore. It is a brilliant book on may levels, and it gives insight into the concept of 'blood atonement' which is the main reason Utah retains firing squad executions, and most likely what was at play here.

[proteus_lives]

33. His choice.

Bye-bye, scumbag.

[revolution breeze]

35. Ronnie Lee Gardner was a Mormon

Older Mormons were taught the only way to atone for the sin of murder was for the murderer to shed blood. This is why Utah sanctioned the firing squad. Although it is no longer preached from the Latter Day Saints pulpit, may people maintain these beliefs.

[leftyladyfrommo]

36. Blood Atonement.

I posted that once before. I think its the reason Utah still has the firing squad. Its the only way the blood can flow back into the earth and make it possible for the person to atone for their sins.

B. Young discussed this several times. I don't know how many Mormons actually still believe in this. But it might be a more commonly held belief than one would expect in this day and age.

Goes right along with B. Youn's Avenging Angels - the Danites.

[Blue_Tires]

44. the NPR story said Utah banned the firing squad years ago

but five (now four) inmates were grandfathered in and have that choice available to them...after that, no more...

[bliss_eternal]

99. wow...

:scared: ...i'm surprised anyone would want that as an option. i guess if one is attempting to make a death penality statement, then perhaps, this would do it (dramatic effect, etc.) but i'm still blown away (no pun intended) by this.

[Froward69]

37. I favor bullets as the execution method and I will tell you why,

lethal injection renders all of the body's organs unusable for transplant.

A single Bullet to the back of the head does the same job Quickly and dare I say painlessly. while preserving the rest of the body's organs fit for transplant.

I seriously wonder why it is so macabre and abhorrent to society to harvest the organs of the condemned? seriously? Their are many other (non felons) who could go on to have productive lives if the simply had a newer kidney, Liver, eyes or Lungs.


I am all for exhausting any and all methods to prove innocence, DNA, fair trial, full appeals, etc.

then give the condemned the chance to actually do some good with their remains.

[Heywood J]

41. Given the environment in most of our prisons,

I'd have to wonder about fitness for organ transplant. US prisons have all manner of jail tattooists, hepatitis, HIV, etc. I doubt there would be much of a way to certify health with the massive liability issues involved.

[Froward69]

93. Granted

but America (even the rethuglicans) is too squeamish to even think about harvesting Organs from the condemned. even if the condemned person agreed and were in perfect health.

yet will legally ship 40-60 human heads cross-country for "research".

[SKKY]

106. I hadn't thought about this from that perspective...

...it's an interesting argument. Provided the measures are in place to ensure the safety of those organs, It seems like a decent option.

[daleo]

109. In China it is said they harvest the organs of the executed

Your opinion is mainstream there.

[superconnected]

38. Well, I won't defend the guy, but I do feel we are a step more barbaric today for doing it.

[leftyladyfrommo]

39. The death penalty - however its done - is just barbaric.

We don't lob off heads but that doesn't make our death penalty any less barbaric than anyone elses.

[Pavulon]

43. Cant escape from a coffin..Just sayin.

he wont kill anyone again trying to get out.

[daleo]

110. Nor would an innocent person, wrongly convicted. n/t

[ProudDad]

46. Utah prisoner faces death by firing squad

Source: Guardian, UK

Barring a last-minute reprieve, Ronnie Lee Gardner will tomorrow night be strapped into a chair, hooded and executed with a blast of gunfire from five rifles in the first death by firing squad to take place in the US in 14 years.

Gardner, 49, will be taken at midnight into a specially designed execution chamber in Utah state prison in Draper, Utah. A target will be placed over his heart, and then in the first minutes of Friday five unidentified law enforcement officers will line up in front of him with .30-calibre rifles. After Gardner is allowed to say his last words, they will be ordered to fire at the target.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/16/utah-prisoner-death-firing-squad

---

More proof, if any was needed, of the barbaric states of USAmerika!

[ProudDad]

47. 10 Reasons to Abolish the Death Penalty

By 2004, 118 countries had abolished the death penalty, in law or practice. An average of three countries abolish the death penalty every year. The worldwide trend towards abolition of the death penalty is reflected in the Africa region, where 24 members of the African Union had abolished the death penalty, in law or practice, by 1 October 2004.(1) Here are ten reasons for the total abolition of this degrading and inhuman punishment:

1 - the death penalty violates the right to life.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) recognises each person’s right to life. Article 4 of the African Charter on Human and Peoples´ Rights (ACHPR) states that "human beings are inviolable. Every human being shall be entitled to respect for his life and the physical and moral integrity of his person." This view is reinforced by the existence of international and regional treaties providing for the abolition of the death penalty, notably the second optional protocol of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, adopted by the General Assembly of the United Nations in 1989.

2 - the death penalty is a cruel and inhuman death.

The UDHR categorically states that "No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment."All forms of execution are inhuman. No government can guarantee a dignified and painless death to condemned prisoners, who also suffer psychological pain in the period between their sentence and execution.

3 - the death penalty has no dissuasive effect.

No scientific study has proved that the death penalty has a more dissuasive effect on crime than other punishments. The most recent investigation into the links of cause and effect between capital punishment and the murder rate, was conducted by the United Nations in 1988 and updated in 2002. It came to the following conclusion: "...it is not prudent to accept the hypothesis that capital punishment deters murder to a marginally greater extent than does the threat and application of the supposedly lesser punishment of life imprisonment."

4 - the death penalty is premeditated murder, demeans the state and makes society more violent.

By executing a person, the state commits a murder and shows the same readiness to use physical violence against its victim as the criminal. Moreover, studies have shown that the murder rate increases immediately after executions. Researchers have suggested that this increase is similar to that caused by other violent public events, such as massacres and assassinations.

5 - the death penalty is discriminatory in its application.

Throughout the world, the death penalty is disproportionately used against disadvantaged people. Some condemned prisoners from the most impoverished social classes would not have been sentenced to death if they were from wealthier sectors of society. In these cases, either the accused are less able to find their way through the maze of the judicial system (because of a lack of knowledge, confidence or financial means), or the system reflects the generally negative attitude of society and the powerful towards them. It has also been proved that certain criminals run a greater risk of being condemned to death if their victims come from higher social classes.

6 - the death penalty denies the capacity of people to mend their ways and become a better person.

Defenders of the death penalty consider that anyone sentenced to death is unable to mend their ways and could re-offend at any time if they are released. However, there are many examples of offenders who have been reintegrated and who have not re-offended. Amnesty International believes that the way to prevent re-offending is to review procedures for conditional release and the psychological monitoring of prisoners during detention, and under no circumstances to increase the number of executions. In addition, the death penalty removes any possibility for the condemned person to repent.

7 - the death penalty cannot provide social stability nor bring peace to the victims.

An execution cannot give the victim his or her life back nor ease the suffering felt by their family. Far from reducing the pain, the length of the trial and the appeal procedure often prolong the family’s suffering.

8 - the death penalty denies the fallibility of human institutions.

The risk of executing innocent people remains indissolubly linked to the use of the death penalty. Since 1973, 116 people condemned to death in the United States have been released after proof of their innocence has been established. Some of them have only just escaped execution, after having passed years on death row. These repeated judicial errors have been especially due to irregularities committed by prosecution or police officers, recourse to doubtful evidence, material information or confessions, or the incompetence of defence lawyers. Other prisoners have been sent to their deaths when serious doubts existed about their guilt.

9 - the death penalty is a collective punishment.

This punishment affects all the family, friends and those sympathising with the condemned person. The close relatives of an executed prisoner, who generally do not have anything to do with the crime, could feel, as a result of the death penalty, the same dreadful sense of loss as the victim’s parents felt at the death of their loved one.

10 - the death penalty goes against the religious and humanist values that are common to all humanity.

Human rights are universal, indivisible and interdependent. They are based on many traditions that can be found in all civilisations. All religions advocate clemency, compassion and forgiveness and it is on these values that Amnesty International bases its opposition to the death penalty.

[daleo]

111. That's a great post. n/t

[alp227]

48. But didn't he specifically ASK for it?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and_canada/10347166.stm

"Gardner, 49, chose the firing squad as his method of execution before it was banned by Utah in 2004." --BBC

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36742560/

"Utah is set to execute a convicted killer by firing squad in June after a judge agreed Friday to the inmate's request for the method..." --Associated Press from April

[ProudDad]

49. He didn't ask to be murdered by the State

He asked for the firing squad because it's quicker and less likely to be botched than "lethal injection"...

[emilyg]

50. Did his victims ask to be murdered?

[proteus_lives]

52. You probably won't get an answer for that.

Doesn't fit into the "Amerika is bad" theme.

[Hissyspit]

56. Actually, it doesn't fit into the "Capital Punishment is Wrong" theme

clearly outlined in the first response. But by all means ignore it so that you can get in a snarky dig.

[proteus_lives]

57. Works with the "Amerika" theme in the OP.

[ProudDad]

76. When the USAmerican state does evil

It's spelled USAmerika...

When it's just identified, to differentiate it from the numerous other nations on the American continents it's spelled USAmerica...

But, I guess you're just too dense to figure that out, eh?

[proteus_lives]

84. You calling someone dense?

:rofl:

What evil? A punishment was applied to someone who chose it and richly deserved it.

[ProudDad]

75. Your post is, as usual, irrelevant as well.

:rofl:

[Bill McBlueState]

77. That can't possibly be the 'theme'

Fifteen states have outlawed the death penalty, so at best, it could be "Some fraction of Amerika (sic) is bad."

I think the theme is really one of opposition to the death penalty, no matter the country.

[Bill McBlueState]

69. No.

So what?

[ProudDad]

74. Not relevant

A more relevant question is "How do you feel about the State murdering in your name?"

[emilyg]

80. For someone like him - I feel fine.

[ProudDad]

82. Then you're part of the problem...

A good, dues paying member of the death culture...

Way to go!

[proteus_lives]

86. "Death culture"

That was actually Mr. Gardener.

[emilyg]

101. Right on. Let's feel sorry for

the bad guys.

[proteus_lives]

85. I'd hate that.

If they committed murder. But since an execution isn't murder, I'm fine with it.

[The Magistrate]

53. He Begged To Be Killed, Sir, When He Killed

There is an odd element to the 'Golden Rule', when viewed in the round: if one is to do to others as you would have others do to you, then the way you treat others, the things you do to others, are open requests to be treated in a similar fashion. A man who kills someone over the contents of a till, or an access of frustrated rage of some sort, is stating clearly he wants to be killed, and should be killed, by the very treatment he deals out to others. A decent person really ought to comply with such a request....

[RogueBandit]

54. And then the executioner...

The person executing must be asking for the same thing, since they are killing as well. And the Judge, too. Talk about a round-robin!!

[The Magistrate]

55. Not Really, Sir

The person who made the request is the one who establishes the terms of his own treatment. Those who accede to the request are simply being obliging, and thus indicating they consider granting a heartfelt request is the proper way to treat people, and the treatment they would want for themselves.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

60. Do you think that it's not quite punishment

If you grant a prisoner something he wants?

[The Magistrate]

61. That Concept, Ma'am, is Quite To One Side Of This Line Of Analysis

[daleo]

112. Your argument strikes me as sophism

And you are generally better than that.

You have recast "the golden rule" into a version of "an eye for an eye". I don't think Jesus, Plato or the Buddha meant that.

[The Magistrate]

113. Quite The Contrary, Sir: Merely Treating It Seriously

For, obviously, if a person treats others well, with fairness, with benevolence, he or she is indicating that is how people should be treated, and is asking to be treated with fairness and benevolence. If that were the chosen line of illustration for the principle, you would find no ground to disagree and argue with it, but rather would acknowledge that yes, that is how things ought to work. Why you think the principle should not apply similarly when a person treats others with cruelty, with complete disregard for their very being, quite escapes me.

The names you mention are rather odd in this context, it seems worth observing. The Christ preached condemnation to eternal hell-fire as punishment for a variety of things, some serious, some trifles. Plato was hardly an opponent of capital punishment, but believed instead that criminals who could not be cured ought to executed, on grounds of both humane treatment to one so disordered, and utility to the society as a whole. The Buddha, doubtless, would ask you why you bothered with such attachment to illusion as to take this for a matter of any importance, since by doing so you were only trapping yourself more firmly in the unreal world of desire and suffering, and behaving in a manner which did not tend towards enlightenment.

[proteus_lives]

51. His choice.

Bye-Bye scumbag.

[Socal31]

58. One of the more "humane" deaths.

A single shot to the brain stem would be "better", but the public can't stomach that.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

59. I think this is disgusting

I feel sorry for the victim's families regarding with how they died but the way they cheered his death-



Makes me incredibly sick to my stomach.

It would have been better for him to rot in prison.

[proteus_lives]

63. Well, if anyone can sit in judgment of a grieving family, it's you.

:eyes:

[FunkyLeprechaun]

68. BTW

I am anti-death penalty and cheering for a death is a bit barbaric. Have these Americans gone back to Roman times?

BTW Proteus... what do you think of Donna Nu (Michael Burdell's fiance)? She begged for Gardner's life to be spared.

[proteus_lives]

83. So, your beliefs give you the right to judge their grief and how they express it?

BTW, it's her choice. There's nothing wrong with that.

But society felt different.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

88. Are you sure?

I think the way he was executed put people off the death penalty.

Are you for the death penalty?

[proteus_lives]

104. I don't.

Since they've been using that method for a long, long time. Plus we dropped the DP in the '70s and they brought it back.

Yes, I am, on a case by case basis.

[ProudDad]

78. And if they find closure from State Murder, then they're the sick ones! (n/t)

[Ter]

90. I'd cheer too if the guy put to death had killed a family member

Ef him.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

98. Are you human?

Wishing death on a fellow human being? I'd rather him have died a natural death in prison than this barbaric execution. Many people, including one of the victim's family did not want him put to death.

[bliss_eternal]

96. agreed.

it's sick, imo. maybe after some time and reflection, they'll realize (maybe not)...this can't bring their loved one back. :(

[LARED]

62. Speaking of barbaric

Gardner's death sentence relates to the shooting in 1985 of Michael Burdell, a defence lawyer. Gardner was in court in Salt Lake City, facing trial for murdering a barman called Melvyn Otterstrom, when he tried to escape from the courthouse and in the process shot and killed Burdell. He also shot a bailiff, Nick Kirk, who died from his injuries 10 years later.

[superconnected]

64. So that's 3 people he killed right there.

One person, okay, accident - but 3? Sorry, I don't believe his life is worth 3 others. I don't even put my life at the cost of 1 other.

[Old Vet]

66. Conclusion.............

There are consequences to such horrible actions, Obviously murder hasn't been felt or witnessed by many.

[Bill McBlueState]

70. I don't understand why this is a standard tactic.

We *know* what the guy did. And we're still opposed to the death penalty. It's not like opposition to the death penalty is some fringe position, either. It's outlawed in 15 states and most of the world.

on edit: Even more states have outlawed the death penalty since I last checked! I said 13, but it's 15.

[ProudDad]

71. Intersting that National Propaganda Radio (and some here) didn't mention

that the family of the defense lawyer he killed did NOT want his execution...

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/10/utah.firing.squad.victim/index.html


Just the cop's family...

Hmm, what does that tell ya', eh?

[proteus_lives]

103. What does that tell you?

This should be good.

[ProudDad]

72. 10 Reasons to Abolish the Death Penalty

By 2004, 118 countries had abolished the death penalty, in law or practice. An average of three countries abolish the death penalty every year. The worldwide trend towards abolition of the death penalty is reflected in the Africa region, where 24 members of the African Union had abolished the death penalty, in law or practice, by 1 October 2004.(1) Here are ten reasons for the total abolition of this degrading and inhuman punishment:

1 - the death penalty violates the right to life.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) recognises each person’s right to life. Article 4 of the African Charter on Human and Peoples´ Rights (ACHPR) states that "human beings are inviolable. Every human being shall be entitled to respect for his life and the physical and moral integrity of his person." This view is reinforced by the existence of international and regional treaties providing for the abolition of the death penalty, notably the second optional protocol of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, adopted by the General Assembly of the United Nations in 1989.

2 - the death penalty is a cruel and inhuman death.

The UDHR categorically states that "No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment."All forms of execution are inhuman. No government can guarantee a dignified and painless death to condemned prisoners, who also suffer psychological pain in the period between their sentence and execution.

3 - the death penalty has no dissuasive effect.

No scientific study has proved that the death penalty has a more dissuasive effect on crime than other punishments. The most recent investigation into the links of cause and effect between capital punishment and the murder rate, was conducted by the United Nations in 1988 and updated in 2002. It came to the following conclusion: "...it is not prudent to accept the hypothesis that capital punishment deters murder to a marginally greater extent than does the threat and application of the supposedly lesser punishment of life imprisonment."

4 - the death penalty is premeditated murder, demeans the state and makes society more violent.

By executing a person, the state commits a murder and shows the same readiness to use physical violence against its victim as the criminal. Moreover, studies have shown that the murder rate increases immediately after executions. Researchers have suggested that this increase is similar to that caused by other violent public events, such as massacres and assassinations.

5 - the death penalty is discriminatory in its application.

Throughout the world, the death penalty is disproportionately used against disadvantaged people. Some condemned prisoners from the most impoverished social classes would not have been sentenced to death if they were from wealthier sectors of society. In these cases, either the accused are less able to find their way through the maze of the judicial system (because of a lack of knowledge, confidence or financial means), or the system reflects the generally negative attitude of society and the powerful towards them. It has also been proved that certain criminals run a greater risk of being condemned to death if their victims come from higher social classes.

6 - the death penalty denies the capacity of people to mend their ways and become a better person.

Defenders of the death penalty consider that anyone sentenced to death is unable to mend their ways and could re-offend at any time if they are released. However, there are many examples of offenders who have been reintegrated and who have not re-offended. Amnesty International believes that the way to prevent re-offending is to review procedures for conditional release and the psychological monitoring of prisoners during detention, and under no circumstances to increase the number of executions. In addition, the death penalty removes any possibility for the condemned person to repent.

7 - the death penalty cannot provide social stability nor bring peace to the victims.

An execution cannot give the victim his or her life back nor ease the suffering felt by their family. Far from reducing the pain, the length of the trial and the appeal procedure often prolong the family’s suffering.

8 - the death penalty denies the fallibility of human institutions.

The risk of executing innocent people remains indissolubly linked to the use of the death penalty. Since 1973, 116 people condemned to death in the United States have been released after proof of their innocence has been established. Some of them have only just escaped execution, after having passed years on death row. These repeated judicial errors have been especially due to irregularities committed by prosecution or police officers, recourse to doubtful evidence, material information or confessions, or the incompetence of defence lawyers. Other prisoners have been sent to their deaths when serious doubts existed about their guilt.

9 - the death penalty is a collective punishment.

This punishment affects all the family, friends and those sympathising with the condemned person. The close relatives of an executed prisoner, who generally do not have anything to do with the crime, could feel, as a result of the death penalty, the same dreadful sense of loss as the victim’s parents felt at the death of their loved one.

10 - the death penalty goes against the religious and humanist values that are common to all humanity.

Human rights are universal, indivisible and interdependent. They are based on many traditions that can be found in all civilisations. All religions advocate clemency, compassion and forgiveness and it is on these values that Amnesty International bases its opposition to the death penalty.

[fishbulb703]

79. As an atheist, life in prison would be infinitely better than the death penalty.

Non-existance is the ultimate punishment, and I do happen to think it should be used on those who commit ultimate acts of inhumanity

[Bill McBlueState]

81. How is non-existence a punishment?

It's not like you're floating around, regretting the fact that you don't exist.

[fishbulb703]

87. imo, any existence is better than non-existence nt

I'm a philosophy major though, so I'm crazy.

[laureloak]

89. The man killed 2 people. I have no pity for him. nt

[Old Vet]

97. That would be three people...............

The cop he shot died a short time later.

[truthisfreedom]

100. Four, if you figure that he killed himself by killing the other three.

It's a sort of drawn-out suicide by cop.

[Divine Discontent]

105. no one asked you to have pity on him. the fact is you are all for extinguishing life as a means of

enacting punishment, and do not believe in imprisonment away from freedom as just.

There are mighty good reasons why they shouldn't kill people for punishment, many are listed above. One of the biggest is the fact that innocent people are put to death for crimes they didn't commit - that should never occur - and stopping capital punishment is one way to solve that, other reasons include it's incredibly barbaric and doesn't deter people from murdering people - thinking of being put to death apparently doesn't matter when people are just flawed/sick.