Turkey close to severing ties with Israel over flotilla deaths

[IScreamSundays]

Source: WaPo

Turkey is on the brink of severing relations with Israel in the wake of killings of Turkish activists on board a Gaza-bound flotilla, the Turkish ambassador to the United States said Friday.

"Israel cannot find any better friend in the region than Turkey," Namik Tan, the ambassador, told a small group of reporters. "And Israel is about to lose that friend."

Asked if he was saying Turkey would cut the ties it has had with Israel since shortly after the founding of the Jewish state, Tan referred to the massive protests in Turkey against the Israeli actions. Because of the emotions, he said, "the government might be forced to take such an action."

To prevent such a break between two close U.S. allies, Tan said that "first and foremost" Israel needed to apologize for the deaths. He said Israel also must agree to an international probe of the incident and end its blockade of Gaza, which is controlled by the Hamas militant group.

snip>

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/04/AR2010060403088.html

[Ian David]

1. Because Turkey is so humanitarian...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8484887

They probably just want a better deal on the Israeli drones they want to use for massacring the Kurds.

[jayfish]

2. Did you read the part where they were convicted and sentenced in Turkey buy the Turks?

Compare that to this:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/16/florida.boot.camp.death/index.html


Sounds more humanitarian than the U.S.

FSH

[Ian David]

5. Good point, but this is a first for them. n/t

[Tempest]

4. hyperbole

There is no massacring of the Kurds occurring.

What is happening is that Turkey is retaliating against the PKK for their terrorist attacks.

[aquart]

15. Ah. A perfect description of Israel.

God, I love irony.

[Tempest]

19. Your irony meter is broken

Turkey is targeting PKK training camps and locations, not civilian populations.

Also, Turkey doesn't engage in collective punishment the way Israel does.

[aquart]

22. Saints, they are.

Ask the Armenians. Oh, wait.

[proteus_lives]

33. Me too.

;-)

[Violet_Crumble]

37. There was no irony there at all n/t

[movonne]

6. So that gives Israel a pass??

[aquart]

14. On what? A legal military action?

The flotilla organizers were morons who improperly briefed the participants in international law.

You can fluff this up any way you want, but once they announced an intention to break a blockade, Israel had the right to board and the right to defend its people.

The flotilla had planned a demonstration of token resistance. On one ship, they did more than that and nine of them died. Nobody died on any ship that stuck to the plan.

This is a PR nightmare for Israel but bloody little for international courts.

And since EVERY non-Israeli witness was a committed ardent pro-Palestinian...what makes their word worth more than spit, anyway?

Now me, I accept the statements of the Al Jazeera reporter and the Al Jazeera cameraman. But the statement by the guy who wrote the Wallender books is full of contradictions, as is the very odd statement by the American pro-Palestinian Salon featured. You cannot make me believe that Israel arrived intending to murder people and in the next breath tell me they used stun guns and rubber bullets. Uh no. That's riot control equipment. That isn't battle gear. You cannot tell me how cruel and evil the Israelis are and in the next breath tell me you jumped overboard BECAUSE YOU KNEW THEY WOULD STOP EVERYTHING TO HAUL YOUR ASS OUT OF THE WATER TO KEEP YOU FROM DROWNING. Then the guy bitched about being tied to the mast which is a reasonable thing to do with an idiot who likes to jump into the water very far from land. The guy claims to be black and blue because he was horribly beaten...a belly flop into an ocean can do that, too. Did they hit him at all? People say they did and I hope it's true.

[Tempest]

21. An illegal military operation in international waters

You Israeli apologists are all the same. Willing to lie through your teeth.

[aquart]

10. I was about to say.

When they cancel the drone shipment, I'll believe they're serious. Until then, I'll just keep wondering how on earth they wound up in the middle of this.

I really feel like a baby trying to figure out MidEast machinations. They all invented devious before America was ever born...hell, before America was even colonized.

[Violet_Crumble]

36. Yeah, just like Israel!

Turkey doesn't have the greatest humanitarian record, but neither does Israel. Turkey has every right to sever ties with Israel after what Israel did to a Turkish ship...

[EFerrari]

3. It looks like the Turks have all the cards. This could be huge.n/t

[leftynyc]

7. Watch Europe

use that to deny them EU status.

[EFerrari]

9. Or, this could be how they get it.

It's hard to say where the weight is right now or which deal is more important to them.

[Wizard777]

28. No Europe is pissed at them too over that Dubai assassination.

Israel has been pissing into a fan for quite a while now. They couldn't grant Obama's request to do nothing. Just stop building in the west bank. Nothing should be the easiest thing in the world to do. But look at all the hoops they have Obama and Biden are jumping through for them. They can't even give us nothing and expect us to give them everything. Bibi might as well have slapped Obama in the face and called him a black bastard during that press conference. If Obama doesn't demand that Israel give Palestine a bulldozer and allow them to demolish Israeli homes in the West Bank to make room for more Palestinian homes. I'm done with him! His Administration was supposed to be all about the American people. Now It's all about Israel. Fuck them and their slave Barack Obama too!

[leftynyc]

29. I'm sure the republicans

appreciate your thoughts.

[Wizard777]

30. Don't think Bibi isn't coordinating with the Republican through AIPAC

[Hardrada]

50. Oh no, another apologist!

Makes 11. Let's go for a dozen, you people. I think there are enough ass-covering lies to go around!

[Pavulon]

34. NO they could give a fuck about a dead hamas member, they care about them getting caught.

these people are supposed to die of natural causes and no notice paid.

[Wizard777]

35. The point is they are getting sloppy all around. Hopefully they won't get sloppy with their nukes.

That's not easily covered up.

[Pavulon]

39. You mean like flying AGM weapons from ND to LA and not knowing they

were fully capable weapons that would have caused a radiological disaster in a crash? Like that sloppy?

[Wizard777]

46. Yeah. Apparently AIPAC won't let me discuss Israels nukes here.

Or even mention them as Far as that does. That Topic wasn't locked. It was deleted. So I'm discussing it big time else where and on the down low here.

[boppers]

52. You have a funny definition of "fully capable".

Seeing as in this case, it means "not capable" of being used.

Oh, and you know what happens when there is such an accident or crash? I'll give you a hint:
It's already happened at least 6 times, in 1950, 1956, 1958, 1965, 1966, and 1968.

So, tell me where those six "radiological disasters" were, please. Shouldn't be hard to find, if the comment about "disaster" isn't more than just excessive, uneducated, hyperbole.

[Violet_Crumble]

38. No, they give a fuck about their passports being forged...

That's what the problem is. Do you really think the UK and Australia would have expelled an Israeli official from their countries if Israel hadn't forged passports of countries that were supposed to be their friends?

[Pavulon]

40. Caught forging. Hand in cookie jar..

you are aware there is a large group of folks at CIA who specialize in this?

[Violet_Crumble]

41. They specialise in forging Australian passports? What a load of bullshit...

They don't need to...

[Pavulon]

42. We forge the fuck out of documents. CIA

does the same shit and kills the same poons, they just haven't been caught in a while. Or we just splatter them all over the desert in yemen.

[Violet_Crumble]

43. Passports from friendly countries aren't forged. Stop trying to justify what Israel did...

There's no need for Australian passports to be forged by allies as the real thing will be created on request for intelligence services. Of course if a country like Israel turns up and asks for the real thing so they can go assassinate someone and in the process put Australian citizens at risk and destroy the good reputation Australia has with most countries, then the answer's going to be no.

[Pavulon]

44. Why would we ask? You outlined it.

there is no real reason a passport needs to be forged unless you are up to something that should stay quiet.

[Violet_Crumble]

45. Because that's how it's done...

Despite yr protestations to the contrary, the US and other allies have requested the real thing and do NOT forge passports. Israel is the only country that has done that to us while claiming to be our friend, and what they did wasn't the action of a friendly country and they don't deserve to be treated like one...

[Pavulon]

48. ok. you are right. the cia does not forge documents

they are all very nice people and play by all the rules that the ACLU would want.

[Violet_Crumble]

49. That's not what I said. I said they don't forge Australian passports...

Israel, OTOH, did exactly that, which is the problem.

[mikita]

8. I don't see an apology or international probe coming any time soon,

so I do hope Turkey will sever relations with Israel. An apology and international inquiry are extremely reasonable expectations.






edit: corrected typo.

[harun]

12. Agree, Turkey wants to cut relations, which is good.

[aquart]

17. HAVE THEY?

Have they withdrawn their ambassador? Have they canceled the drone shipment?

Some idiots screwed up a publicity stunt but now there's even more publicity. There HAS to be a public posture because morons who happened to be Turkish got killed.

You honestly think this will alter the trajectory of state policy?

There are a whole bunch of steps here that will have to be taken to mollify the outraged Turkish public.

Also, Turkey seems to be sucking up more heavily to the Muslim world. The danger in making an enemy of Israel is that Israel also has a relationship with the Kurds. Chew on that one for a while.

Turkey is helping the Palestinians defy Israel. Israel is helping the Kurds defy Turkey. Buying the Israeli drones may have been a way to cool Israeli/Kurd relations. Cancel the order and there ain't reason for them not to be best buds again.

And then there's Iran. Turkey doesn't want Iran to have nukes. Neither does Israel. It's been a common bond.

I love people who think things are as simple as right and wrong.

[Tempest]

23. Yes they have

Recalled their ambassador, check.

Put a hold on new contracts, check.

Looking into existing contracts, check.

[harun]

26. Turkey knows exactly what they are doing

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/06/03/barkey.turkey.israel/index.html?hpt=T2

I've been to Turkey, have you? When walking through ripped up streets I asked them what all the construction was for? It is for natural gas lines. So they can transition over to natural gas heating. Where do you think they plan on getting all this cheap natural gas from? The answer: Iran.

Iran is no threat to Turkey or Israel.

[Ignis]

31. Blaming the victim is disgusting and the antithesis of liberalism.

:thumbsdown:

[aquart]

13. LOL!

But what can I expect from someone who doesn't know that Israel ends in "el" because "El" was the speakable name of Israel's god. Like the other biblical names: Rachel, Nathaniel, Samuel, Gabriel, Raphael, Lemuel, Daniel.

And the next time Turkey murders Kurds, I expect to see you front and center demanding we sever relations with them.

[atreides1]

16. Regular Kurds yes

The PKK, not so much.

[aquart]

18. Hamas and Hezbullah, not so much.

[Tempest]

24. You won't get him to admit there's a difference

He probably considers the PKK to be freedom fighters, despite the fact that their first act as a group was to wipe out a rival Kurd leadership and purged the area of its followers.

[IndianaGreen]

11. Turkey's demands are reasonable and just

which is why Israel will reject them outright. Why should Israel worry when it has the United States as a co-dependent.

[aquart]

20. Ah, the joys of simplicity.

[Tempest]

25. Is he wrong?

If so, point it out.

Otherwise, you're just flame baiting.

[Wizard777]

27. They should wait to see how the next ship is received by Egypt.

Israeli intervention could make ending diplomatic relations a moot point.

[lumpy]

32. Sounds like Turkey's leadership listens to it's constituency.

Wish Obama wouild listen to his.

[New Dawn]

47. K&R

[Catherina]

51. Rec'd. Set the example Turkey. n/t