Greek unions hold new general strike against cuts

[maddezmom]

Source: AP

ATHENS, Greece — Unions plan to protest the painful austerity measures of Greece's cash-strapped government by holding a general strike Thursday that will close much of the country's public sector and shut down the country's ferries, trains and public transport.

Protest marches also are planned in Athens, and police are bracing for violence.

During Greece's last general strike on May 5, three workers — including a pregnant woman — died while trapped in a bank that rioters set ablaze. That occurred as 100,000 people demonstrated in the capital against the austerity measures. That caused widespread shock and condemnation, but it remains unclear whether that will deter new riots.

Unions have staged a series of walkouts in recent months against deep pension and salary cuts, as well as steep increases in consumer taxes.



Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iXUJvBknZVGqsBenIusBgBvWj5WQD9FQD9R00

[villager]

1. This has made one furtive (pro-bank?) unreccer very unhappy..

n/t

[Kringle]

2. is there a downside to any of this? .nt

[readmoreoften]

4. No.

[dipsydoodle]

11. Not at present

given that the loans have been agreed. That has simply moved the shit hitting the fan to a future date. I wouldn't mind betting that their tourist industry will now tank this year and make matters even worse.

[dkf]

3. Why aren't they protesting against tax cheats?

If people don't pay their taxes then workers don't get paid. Railing at the government won't get anything done.

[readmoreoften]

5. "Tax Cheats" aren't the problem. Banks and neoliberal policies are the problem.

And they're protesting their SINO government--- socialists in name only.

[dkf]

8. Actually they are the problem.

About a third of greece's economy escapes taxes. The average doctor supposedly makes 40,000 a year. That is a joke.

[girl gone mad]

15. Agin, that's not the cause of this crisis.

and it is fundamentally beside the point here, because some level of tax evasion has in place for decades in Greece. Their economy was perfectly functional until they entered into a badly structured monetary system.

Tax evasion is not the reason Greece finds itself in this current dilemma and I have yet to hear a plausible explanation as to how any country can tax its way out of a recession caused by collapse in private spending and exports.

[dkf]

25. If there are no taxes collected obviously you can't fund a public sector.

Sometimes it is about taxes.

And they weren't fine up to now. They have a history of defaults. The difference between before and now is the debt has compounded to a breaking point where investors don't want to loan money any more.

[Kringle]

6. nobody protests against themselves .nt

[girl gone mad]

7. That would be about as useful as potesting our tax cheats in response to our banking crisis..

IOW, it's a dead end.

I'd like for any of the deficit terrorists to explain how Greece can get out of a financial crisis caused primarily by failed monetary policy and a serious recession driven by loss of private capital by increasing everyone's taxes. How did that work when Hoover tried it?

[hack89]

13. You are right in a sense

they still have to collect all the taxes that people legally own - it may not be necessary to raise taxes. But they still have to stop deficit spending - if all their debt was to disappear, they still have a large structural deficit to deal with. If taxes are not raised then spending must be cut. Basic economic - don't spend more then you make.

[girl gone mad]

17. Spending was already cut. The deficit only grew.

Greece is constrained because they are chained to the EMU.

Sovereign currency nations don't need to run their budgets the way a household does. See Japan, for example. They have deficits and public debt ratios much higher that Greece, yet they are in no danger of insolvency.

Monetary theory is a bit more complex than basic economics, but it plays a fundamental role in modern life and I wish people understood it a bit better.

[hack89]

20. The Greek government conspired with Goldman Sachs

to hide their debt so they could continue to borrow at low interest rates. No one in their right mind would lend money to Greece - how can they be trusted?

It is irrelevant that Japan has a higher debt ratio - they can pay their interest payments. Debt is not inherently bad if you can make the payments - Greece can't and is in danger of default.

[girl gone mad]

27. Greece should default.

They will have less problems selling debt after a default, imho, because they will be in a better fiscal position. I know what the IMF fear mongers would say, but history is not on their side.

[boppers]

9. They need to think further.

Instead of complaining that 14 months of wages will be handed to themselves, and then their daughters, when they retire at 40... they should demand that 24 months of salary should be paid, in perpetuity, to all of their descendants, regardless of income, each and every month.

After all, doesn't having any government job, for a while, ensure that you (and your descendants) should never have to work again?

:sarcasm:

[dipsydoodle]

10. I have a feeling that some here

are not fully aware of some of the previous goings on regarding public sector pay over there in Greece like for example forestry workers getting bonus's when required to work outside and clerical staff being paid bonus's for actually turning up for work.

[boppers]

16. Some folks hear "union" and assume the cause is just.

It's a side effect of being shafted, methinks.

[girl gone mad]

12. You're just repeating jibberish.

The IMF is demanding wage cuts in the private sector now. Care to explain why that is, if this is a crisis caused by government overspending? Do you think all those greedy private employees and business owners hate their grandchildren, too, and just want to get fat and rich doing nothing?

It should be clear by now to anyone who has been paying attention that the kind of austerity measures you're pushing can only increase the deficit, not reduce it. Greece cut back government spending pretty drastically in recent years and, of course, that only intensified their woes.

[boppers]

14. Well, if the private sector is great....

They can also "get fat and rich doing nothing".

Greece, from what I can tell, has a problem where they stand guilty of the worst of accusations of US republicans.

[girl gone mad]

18. I guess I don't get what you are saying.

What is it, exactly, that Greece is guilty of? What else are US Republicans right about?

If the problem is supposedly one of too much government spending and fat, lazy pensioners, then why is the IMF demanding cuts in pay for private sector workers, too?

How can a country tax and slash its way out of recession caused by collapse in private spending and capital? How did that work when Hoover tried it?

I hope people will think about this one on a deeper level. We could have a world where every person who wants to work gets to work for honest pay, and a chance at a decent retirement, or we can keep spiraling further into this neo-feudalist, neo-liberal nightmare while our wealth is plundered and our worth devalued.

[boppers]

19. Imagine a world (or nation) where people work for 20 years, but get paid for 40 years.

This is the problem.

Everybody wants to be an aristocrat.

[girl gone mad]

28. Don't have to imagine. I can just walk down Wall Street..

and see people who don't work at all, but get paid more than the average American worker could make in 50 lifetimes.

Not sure what that has to do with Greece, though.

Still don't see anyone explaining how a country can tax and slash its way out of a consumer, private capital and export decline driven recession.

[boppers]

30. The recession isn't the only problem.

Even if there was *no* recession, they still couldn't afford to keep treating their citizens like Wall Street aristocrats, unless they find some massive new revenue streams, or cut their benefits. The recession simply aggravated the problem, because the revenue streams dropped enough for people to realize how much borrowed credit they were living on (and not able to pay back).

[girl gone mad]

35. No, the real problem is the Maastricht straitjacket..

Greece is confined to.

Really bad monetary policy is what it boils down to.

With a sovereign currency, they would be free to pay their citizens whatever living wage they consider fair.

The 4% across the board paycut being demanded of private and public workers ought to be a wake up call to you and other deficit terrorists that this is not about lazy, overpaid government employees.

[boppers]

36. They should totally leave the EU, and give themselves a 300% pay raise, then.

They'll all be rich!

(For about 10 seconds)

[FLPanhandle]

21. Strike all year long, what's their solution that doesn't involve cuts in government spending?

Fine and dandy to complain about something, but what's their solution?

Accept the EU bailout and cut spending.
Default and cut spending.

I've yet to see a solution proposed that doesn't involve cuts in spending. Until they propose something, they come off as spoiled children whining.

[David__77]

22. Write off the debt.

Leave EU and NATO. That's the solution. Debt moratorium - no austerity. KKE has it right.

[FLPanhandle]

23. and even the KKE admits that cuts will still be required.

So, at the end of the day, even the best solution requires government spending cuts. I agree that Greece should bail out of the EU, restructure their loans, and have control of their own currency. Combined with redoing and enforcing their tax codes to increase revenue.

BUT, even with all that, government spending cuts are coming. There isn't one solution that doesn't involve the types of cuts that people there are protesting. The best solutions still involves cuts that just aren't as deep, but serious cuts nonetheless.

[Bragi]

24. I like the social cohesion this shows

Whatever be the merits of the various positions, I am impressed that Greek citizens are not just prepared to roll over, play dead and let the government cut services.

This stands in stark contrast to the easily-scared-off people in the great docile nation that is America.

[ShortnFiery]

26. You're correct. The Greeks know how to put on Grade A protests.

Sadly, the Thai and Chinese governments merely KILL the organizers and squelch all open dissent.

We can only hope the Greek Government Officials are more civilized? :scared:

[unkachuck]

29. "Unions plan to protest the painful austerity measures..."

....they are setting a very good example, for Greece and the world....seriously....

....the world needs to balance the global economic meltdown on the backs of the global capitalists who created it....

[Imajika]

31. Laughable...

Cuts are coming no matter what. Greece could default on all their debt and they'd still have to make cuts.

Still, I agree with the idea Greece should probably leave the EU, reinstate its own currency and default.

The cuts are going to be painful either way, but it may be better for Greece to blow the whole thing up and essentially start over. No one will loan them money for awhile, so Greece will have to make deep budget cuts and do something about their tax evasion problems anyway. The unions are not going to escape pay and benefit cuts no matter how many people they can get into the streets. At this point, these protesters come off as spoiled children throwing a temper tantrum.

The big downside is that if Greece defaults and leaves the EU, it could start a chain reaction that brings down the whole EU monetary zone.

People seem to believe that if the current system falls apart that leftist economic policies will replace the existing order. There is just no reason to believe this based on the way Europeans seem to be voting. It is just as, or perhaps more, likely that right wing, anti-immigrant, fascist leaning party's will rise to power.

[Prometheus Bound]

37. Go ahead and laugh. I doubt they give a shit.

[New Dawn]

32. K&R - Down with the neo-liberal "EU"!

[customerserviceguy]

33. It doesn't matter what they do

they will either stay as members of the European Union with the euro as their currency, and IMF austerity measures imposed, or they will leave it, and deal with the austerity that drachma inflation will wreak upon their economy.

The free lunch is over.

[Imajika]

34. Bingo!

"The free lunch is over."

Exactly. The jig is up. The cuts are coming and there is not a single thing the Greek unions, communists, public sector employees, pensioners, students, etc, etc, can do about it.

[Odin2005]

38. Good!