Black clergy to rally versus gay marriage

[JoFerret]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-3891781,00.html
<<From the cradle of the civil rights movement, several hundred black pastors are coming out against gay marriage and objecting to comparisons between the campaign for racial equality and the push for same-sex weddings.

....

Many black clergy say they are offended by the gay rights movement's claim that their struggle is the same as the effort for equal racial rights.

``The civil rights movement was a positive freedom for African-Americans to experience our capabilities as men and women created in the image of God,'' said Bishop Donn Thomas of Messiah's World Outreach Ministries. ``The homosexual lobby is seeking a negative freedom rooted in the sexual revolution, and it's a negative freedom from the restraint of morality.'' >>>

[Cannikin]

1. Hmm...seems to be a bit of disagreement

Black Religious Leaders Denounce Anti-Gay Amendment
http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/03/031904blackMarriage.htm

"This issue is not a gay issue, it's a human issue," said Rev. Leslie Burke of the non-denominational Unity Fellowship in Church of Christ.

Burke told the rally at the historic Leimert Park that her descendants were slaves who were forbidden to marry and "had to jump the broom," a reference to a ritual created by black slaves who could not legally marry.

Supporters carried signs saying "We all deserve the freedom to marry." The rally was organized by the National Black Justice Coalition, and included members of the National Alliance of Positive Action, the Los Angeles Gay & Lesbian Center and the United Lesbians of African Heritage.
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Could someone wake me when everyone makes up their mind?

[klook]

2. Yep, this was one of the main goals

of the strategy--split the Dems by getting black clergy riled up about gay marriage. Disgusting cynical ploy. In other words, Republican business as usual. :puke:

[xultar]

3. Black folk are very conservative where this is concerned. Personally

I am not. IT is equally frustrating to try and explain to Gay Marriage to Black religious and Religious Right people.

Who'd a thought. :shrug:

I'm very saddened to believe that they feel that being Gay or Lesbian is a choice. Many Blacks feel that way. I've argued with MANY family and friends on the issue and they aren't budging. That is why they don't want it compaired to the Civil Rights movement.

But I keep thinking, Duh that is what CIVIL Rights is all about. Protecting your RIGHTS! Dear Lord what is happening to this country. I'm moving to Australia!

It makes me ANGRY!!! :grr:

[tom_paine]

4. What a surprise -- organized by a Lily White Bushevik

I don't mean to insult African-Americans, but doesn't it seem a trifle odd that directly behind every "Black Bushevik" from OJ Watts to Rev. Jesse Peterson to this groupt urns out to be funded and "organized" by White Bushevik with handfuls of $100s?

(It is important to note here that EVERY race, creed, and color of human beings carries with them member who will appily sell out their own people for 30 pieces of silver)

Which shows, IMHO, how savvy African-Americans are in general that soooo much Bushevik Booty has to funnel down even to get the small numbers of Quislings they buy off.

However, I bring this up merely to say that I KNEW that a White Bushevik would be behind this rally, even before I read it.

That is because Busheviks, like, Stalinists, Nazis, Ferdinand Marcos, and all the other Totalitarian Scum who came before them, are extremely predictable.

Some info on the White Guy who's "organizing" (read, proffering fistfuls of under-the=tabel Bushevik $100s) the "rally":

http://www.gafam.org/publication.aspx?a=8

[David__77]

5. One Black Rev.'s "ride with the KKK"

One Black Rev. said in a widely published quote that "if the Klan is opposed to gay marriage, I'll ride with them."

He might saddle up, but that will be one of the world's shortest rides, because Black people are the No. 1 target of the fascist forces opposed to marriage equality and civil rights in general.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[msmcghee]

7. So . . .

. . . what does equality under the law have to do with political correctness?

Saving my welcome until I know where you're coming from.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[msmcghee]

10. That has nothing to do with political correctness.

It is an example of bigotry - no matter how you look at it. Blacks can be bigots just as much as anyone else.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[msmcghee]

12. Ooops, the moderator beat me to it. But here's my reply anyway.

Groups are not politically correct (or politically incorrect). To claim that (all) members of some group are, is not only wrong, it is an example of bigotry.

Racial equality is not an example of political correctness - it is the law.

Equal rights for sexual minorities is not an example of political correctness - it is the spirit of the US Constitution. The law will be clarified to that end in the future.

Political correctness is not "an assault on free thought and free speech and the first amendment". It is going a little bit out of your way not to offend someone.

I understand that pisses off some bigots who enjoy offending others. Too bad.

If someone uses words like "fagot" or "nigger" (or tries to pass laws that limit the rights of gays or blacks) and I object, it is not because they are being politically incorrect. It is because they are being hateful assholes. I will be using my first amendment rights to tell them so - and make sure everyone else knows about it too.

Try using a spell checker and punctuation. At least your delivery will make sense.

Why not let your true political feelings loose here? Go for it. You can't hold them back forever. In the meantime, it's easy enough to see where you're coming from.

[Cannikin]

25. Just to clarify....

Bigot :\Big"ot\, n. 2. A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.- www.dictionary.com

[sendero]

9. It makes me a bit ill...

.... to see this. This absolutely is a civil rights issue and it takes being blinded by their version of "morality" and/or "religion" to not see that.

Too bad so many are so easily manipulated to think that since they've gotten on the lifeboat it is ok to step on the fingers of those still in the water.

[truthspeaker]

13. what the hell is "negative freedom"?

Assholes.

[goclark]

14. As much As I See It Differently

I don't think anyone wants to get the Black Ministers upset.
They are the backbone of our community and when they say "Vote This Way" the congregations generally listen.

IMO, the Democrats should let this issue ride, as painful as it may be to some of us. If the Black preachers tell their congregations that Democrats are mad at them because of their position on gay marriage,that could cause more problems. Ultimately, I believe that we will get to the promise land on this issue.

The feelings do run deep in many churches. I think, when most African Americans go to the ballot box they will vote first for jobs and Medicare and health issues. Good schools for their children is important. That all adds up to Kerry!

Beat me up if you will but somehow many,not just African Americans, don't see the enormous civil rights implications involved in this issue.

One thing for sure, if Bush gets elected,that will open the flood gates for all the bigots to continue their evil spirited campaigns.

If Kerry gets elected,
I pray that the divisions in this country will heal.
I see a day,a day that comes quickly, when the Mayor of San Francisco will be hailed far and wide as a hero. He, and the brave same sex couples will all go down in the history books as Heroes.

[theHandpuppet]

16. The civil rights implications involved....

"Beat me up if you will but somehow many,not just African Americans, don't see the enormous civil rights implications involved in this issue."

This is a good place to start for those wishing to know why there are enormous civil rights issues involved in the gay marriage debate: http://www.hrc.org (The website for the Human Rights Campaign)

Go to the Issues: Marriage Center link you will find under "Features" on the right side of the page. There are even printouts you can distribute for others wishing to find out what's really at stake.

Hope this helps.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

20. That's precisely the stand Stephen Douglass took

with regard to women's rights; despite the fact that early feminists were staunch abolitionists.

If the AME Church chooses not to marry gays and lesbians, that's their right; but it's not the government's place to define marriage.

I think the black religious community needs to rethink its position.
Settling for less than equal rights for all human beings NOW is an inappropriate option.

[Occulus]

22. OK then

Why not exted federal protections and totally equal status to ALL groups persecuted by, say, Hitler? After all, that seems to be the "gold standard" of repression, at least for our time.

That would include gays, by the way.

[stepnw1f]

15. Unfortunately...

Religion/Church are safe havens for bigotry and discrimination. Just like everything else, the church becomes corrupted and used as a tool to herd the faithful into very narrow points of view. Some churchs are actually evolving, so are some people. Those that follow this way of thinking, do so voluntarily, using the word of their ministers/priests as an excuse for their own resolve.

[playahata1]

17. I am black.

However, I for the life of me cannot understand how an oppressed group can justify the oppression of another group.

I quote the well-known black intellectual Michael Eric Dyson, who, BTW, is an ordained Baptist minister who has championed gay rights -- to the dismay of many black Christians: "If I had to choose, I'd rather sink with atheists who say they don't believe in God, yet love God's children, and show it with the work they do and in their compassion for the vulnerable, than rise with believers whose view of God is shriveled and vicious, and who punish others, and themselves, ultimately, with hard-hearted moralizing, and a cruel indifference to the suffering of the unwashed that grows from the ill-temperedness of the self-righteous."

[fortyfeetunder]

18. My speculation

(I too am also black...)

I think some blacks view the gay agenda as some kind of threat to their own civil rights. And speculate the black religious community who are anti-gay endorse the Bible's position on homosexuality as a sin....though they conveniently forget the Bible also *endorsed* slavery.

[goclark]

24. Gpod point

We shall overcome!

[playahata1]

29. I agree.

Some blacks see the gay movement as a "white" thing, ignoring the fact that there are black gays and lesbians, many of whom are forced to stay in the closet, and just as many of whom are out. It's all about competition for power and resources.

[theHandpuppet]

19. Thanks very much for that quote....

Truer words were never spoken. I'm saving this one!

[playahata1]

28. for puppet, darkstar, deseo, and others who are interested:

Check out Dyson's works:

"Reflecting Black"
"Making Malcolm"
"Between God and Gangsta Rap"
"Race Rules"
"I May Not Get There With You" (about MLK)
"Holler if You Hear Me: Searching for Tupac Shakur"
"Open Mike"
"Why I Love Black Women"
"The Michael Eric Dyson Reader"

Dyson is currently working on a book about Marvin Gaye. (In addition to religion and philosophy, he studies and teaches popular culture, BTW.) He has also appeared on numerous TV programs, including "Politically Incorrect," "Real Time with Bill Maher," "Montel Williams," "Charlie Rose," and C-SPAN.

[darkstar]

21. hey playahata1, great quote!

Thanks and see ya round!

:toast:

[sendero]

27. What...

... an incredible quote. Beautifully said.

[Democat]

23. This is so sad

If there is any group who you would think would be understanding of the stuggle, black American would be the group.

[Vladimir]

26. This just reaffirms

that blacks, gays, and green people with polka dots all in fact have the same potential to be progressive or reactionary. These clergy are both obviously wrong and reactionary, yet in their actions they prove themselves no different from any other group. Ironic, don't you think?

V