Hung Parliament: Brown to resign as prime minister

[muriel_volestrangler]

Source: BBC

Gordon Brown has announced he is to resign as prime minister.

His decision comes as the Tories and Liberal Democrats are poised to agree a deal to form a government.

Labour's attempts to negotiate a deal of their own with the Lib Dems, after last week's inconclusive election result, ended in failure on Tuesday.

Mr Brown is expected to officially tender his resignation to the Queen, after which he will be succeeded by Conservative leader David Cameron.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8675913.stm

---

He's just gone in to Buckingham Palace, so the official resignation is happening now.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. How the mighty are fallen...

[bigworld]

2. Here's your live link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/election2010/liveevent/

[abelenkpe]

3. So they're going with the conservatives?

Are British conservatives like our conservatives? If so, I'd like to send my condolences.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

5. No

That's one thing I've learned since moving here that they aren't the same as the Republican party. Center right maybe but not as loony as the Republicans are.

[abelenkpe]

58. Good to know. Thanks! :)

[BooScout]

9. Thankfully no....

The Tories are left of American Democrats if you ask me.

[Mark Baker]

32. Some are

but fortunately most are not.

Or at least, if they are they know that few in the population would agree with them and hide it.

That doesn't mean I'm looking forward to a Conservative-led government.

[Ter]

42. They may not be anti-abortion or pro-gun or prayer in school

But a lot are pro-war and anti-civil liberties. They are just not on the Christian-Right like here.

[LeftishBrit]

59. Thanks for the condolences; we need them!

On average, our Tories are not as bad as your Republicans, especially the current Palinesque variety, but they are still quite bad enough.

[EmilyKent]

4. Brown has just pulled the rug out from under Clegg then.

Cameron can now tell Clegg to sod off and Clegg has nowhere else to go.

[Oregone]

7. Then Cameron has no where else to go

Minority government have to play nice or they wont last through the first confidence measure.

Yeah, Cameron doesn't need Clegg to rule, but he needs to be careful about how he goes about that. And he needs to still cater to Clegg or the Liberals the next time the a confidence measure is up for a vote.

[EmilyKent]

13. He's PM.

It was in the news some time ago that the Queen can disallow an election.

[Oregone]

16. So? You understand what a confidence measure is, right?

Either he can strike a deal with Clegg and guarantee that he stays in office for a while, or he is going to have to kowtow to the opposition constantly.

The parliament is ultimately sovereign, not the PM.

[EmilyKent]

19. As I said, the Queen can prevent an early election.

[Spider Jerusalem]

21. Not without causing a constitutional crisis.

The monarch is above politics, and any action to keep in government a party which could not command the confidence of a Commons majority, while in theory one of the monarch's reserve powers, in practise would not happen.

[EmilyKent]

22. Yes, there is a process in place to do so.

This was all worked out before the election because they expected a hung parliament.

[Spider Jerusalem]

24. The process you're thinking of is a minority government.

Which has happened before. But if a minority government fails to get the votes of a majority of the Commons on a Queen's Speech or a budget, they've lost the confidence of the House; the leader of a minority government in such a situation has no choice but to tender his resignation to the Queen, who will then dissolve Parliament and call a new election.

[EmilyKent]

26. No, the Lascelles principles.

Conventions allow the Sovereign to decline a request from a prime minister heading a minority government for a dissolution of Parliament and a quick second election.

If the Queen is advised that a general election would be 'detrimental to the national economy', she can refuse to allow one.

'The monarch is not bound to accept such a request, especially when such a request is made soon after a previous dissolution,' says guidance drawn up by Cabinet Secretary Sir Gus O'Donnell.

[Spider Jerusalem]

29. Except there's not really any choice if the passage of a budget can't muster a majority.

[EmilyKent]

33. If she doesn't allow an election then they'd

either have to pass it, or go back to the drawing board.

Since I doubt any party wants another election right away, anyway, a budget would go through.

[Spider Jerusalem]

36. Except in reality the Queen doesn't allow anything, she'd act on the advice of the Privy Council.

And senior Whitehall civil servants.

[EmilyKent]

45. She has reserve powers she can use.

Of course she can take advice, however since she's been around longer than any of them, I hardly think it necessary.

[Oregone]

23. Happens often, right?

:)

Look...*IF* it ends up being a minority government that wants to have any lifespan, it will not go it alone. Its impossible. As of now, it may be a coalition still.

[EmilyKent]

25. It may well be a coalition, or any variation thereof.

However, it's not impossible to be a minority government. The UK may not have such a thing often, but Canada has. In fact they've had one for the last 4 years.

[Oregone]

28. Yes, its lasted 4 years....BUT

It had to last through many confidence measures. When the Liberals were not folding (simply because they were too weak for an election), Harper has had to make concessions to them, the Bloc, and the NDP, time and again. You have to play nice with a minority, as I originally said.

[EmilyKent]

31. They've had them many times before.

[Oregone]

38. Yes, and they often don't last long at all because they don't play nice

Harper is the longest standing minority PM in Canada's history. Hell, they had one government only sit for 39 days.

[EmilyKent]

47. They last 18 months on average apparently.

From what my Canadian friends tell me, Harper is incapable of playing nice.

[Oregone]

50. Yeah, big deal

Harper is a dick but he does what he needs to stay in power, and this includes catering to the other parties.

The others don't often have the balls to go into an election anyway right now.

[EmilyKent]

53. There is no other option at the moment.

No one is ahead in the polls, so there is no point in forcing an election to get the same results. Apparently they've done this before.

[BooScout]

11. Rumour has it....

Clegg will be Deputy Prime Minister.

[EmilyKent]

14. 6 cabinet positions as well apparently.

[Oregone]

17. So looks like he is striking a deal

See, he knows whats best for him. Hopefully Clegg gets electoral reform through. Some people theorize that if he does, Canada is next to follow

[EmilyKent]

20. If it goes to a referendum in the UK

there won't be any PR. And from what I've discovered about it here so far, it's already been turned down 3 times.

[defendandprotect]

6. Confusing . . . what the hell are the Liberal Dems saying about the Tories . . . ???

that they are further to the left than Labour?

Confusing -- !!!

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. I'm not sure where you're getting that from

I don't think anyone would have said that.

The talks between Labour and Lib Dems never seemed to get very far - Labour didn't seem to want to move from their position much, many Labour MPs thought they'd be seen as clinging on to power when the electorate didn't like them, and the Lib Dems thought they were getting just as good offers of compromise from the Tories, with whom they have more than enough votes to win divisions in the Commons (with Labour, they'd need some of the small parties too).

[defendandprotect]

12. You've just repeated the basis of my question . . .

Lib Dems thought they were getting just as good offers of compromise from the Tories, with whom they have more than enough votes to win divisions in the Commons (with Labour, they'd need some of the small parties too).

Of course, I presume these are no longer the days of . . . was his name Patty Armstrong? . . .

which I am familiar with as to Liberal Dem stands.

So the first thought was to go with Labour . . . but they wouldn't move to the left, compromise.

So they moved to Tories where "they were getting just as good offers of compromise" . . .

Think we're close to agreement here?


I could also interpret this that Labour blocked an overall move to the left by forcing

Liberal Dems to negotiate with Tories where the Tory compromise to the left would have been

LESS than the Labour move to the left?

And why were Liberal Dems trying to negotiate with Brown?

How about David Cameron?

[muriel_volestrangler]

56. it wasn't a matter of getting Labour to move to the left

but getting them to agree on things like proportional representation, which isn't a left/right thing. The Tories agreed to hold a referendum on a change to the voting system (to instant-runoff voting, which isn't proportional representation, but some see as making things a little fairer); Labour had already had that in their manifesto, but wouldn't go any further, so the Tories had equaled them in that respect.

The Lib Dems and Labour overlap a lot on what can be called 'left' and 'right'. For instance, the Lib Dems want to raise the personal allowance for income tax a lot, so that many people will stop paying income tax; but Labour says their tax credit system does that by directing tax credits to people who really need it, because they have children. But both can be said to be to the left of the Tories (who, for instance, want to raise the threshold for inheritance tax from £325,000 to £1 million per person - benefiting the rich. But rum our has it that will be dropped as part of the coalition deal - again, the Tories seem to have been willing to compromise).

The sticking point seems to have been that many Labour MPs just don't want to be in a vulnerable coalition (they would have needed additional parties to get a majority anyway), while the Tories and Lib Dems won't need any more votes to get things passed in parliament.

Here's the blog of the BBC's political editor - the entries from 10:26 and 15:13 may explain this better than I have: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/nickrobinson/

Since the Tories got more votes and seats, Clegg started negotiations with them first. Clegg had said before the election that he'd do that if they got the most votes and seats, since otherwise he felt he'd just be seen as an automatic junior partner of Brown. The Tories offered some compromises, and Clegg then talked to Labour to see if they'd go for anything notably better - proportional representation probably being the big one. But Labour have seemed to be lukewarm about a coalition. They may even agree with the governor of the Bank of England, who has said "whoever wins the election will not get back into power for a generation", because the economy is in such a mess.

Labour and Conservatives never tried to negotiate with each other. There's just too much antipathy between them.

[dipsydoodle]

35. Those talks

seem to have been instigated by Mandelson and Campbell neither of whom now appear to be very popular, according to reports, with many Labour MPs especially given that neither hold of them elected postitions. Hopefully that will encoursge Labour to be more reserved about seeking their help or advice in the future.

[defendandprotect]

52. How would you sum up . . .

Brown's unpopularity and how that relates to older Labour party agenda?

[dipsydoodle]

55. Brown was victim of cirucmstances

Blair hung on for far too long with the inevitable outcome that Brown got the blame for everything. I may not have particularly liked Brown as a person but his position did have my respect. In comparison with old Labour New Labour are/were right wing and they drove out all the good people.

Just leaves the new King to suck up to the USA but they I'm guessing they can forget any more wars.

[defendandprotect]

57. Well, Blair obviously moved party to the right . . . .

how much of that was Bush influence and how much he had already done in Clinton era

I don't really know? That would be aside from the war. Just domestic policy.

Presume also that you are saying that New Labor is kinda like our "New Dems" . . .

DLC-corporate wing of Dem party?

And, so too, over decades right wing has targeted their own moderate/liberal Republicans

and certainly also targeted liberal/progressive Dems by pushing issues such as NRA/gun

control and anti-abortion positions. NRA and Catholic legislators were a big help there!

In both cases, working in their own interests, not in public's.

In the campaigns, did Cameron outline anything specific re domestic policy?

Did he attack any of Brown's policies?

Used to love to watch you Liberal Dems on C-span long time ago!

[Oregone]

10. No. It doesn't matter what their alignment is

Clegg is the kingmaker, and he will make whoever the "king" that bows to his whims. He wants electoral reform to change the entire system, and I hate to say it, Cons or Libs, the Means justifies the Ends.

[defendandprotect]

15. Wait . . . Clegg can make the "king" but neither Brown nor Cameron were interested???

And, the electoral reform stuff is very interesting -- do you favor the changes or oppose?

What are they intended to do --???

Our representation here is very low . . . very l o w --

As I recall yours is something like 1 rep for every ... how many citizens?

Do you know?

I've worked ours out before and we have huge differences --

Founders weren't happy with it either which shows you how far behind we really are in reps!!

[Oregone]

18. I am in favor of electoral reform, yes

UK and Canada are lagging the parliamentary globe here

Essentially, the point is that the system will better gage the will of the people and the government created will better reflect that. Votes will no longer be "thrown away" on smaller parties so people can vote on issues, rather than pragmatically (by ranking candidates by preference). So when the liberal vote is split between the Lib Dems and Liberals, and the Conservatives win, this will no longer happen, in theory

BTW, Clegg might be deputy PM under Cameron.

[defendandprotect]

27. OK . . . so you're talking about joining Europe in an IRV system . . .

instant runoff . . . ranking candidates by preference --

that's exactly what we need but both Dems and Repugs blocking!!

Do you call it "IRV" ... ???

Hope Clegg gets it and didn't bargain it away to Tories --


Long time since I've had the figures on your per citizen representation ---

I think with our 500 members of House of Reps we get about one rep per 375,000 citizens?

Think you have much better situation? Do you recall numbers?

Tried a search on this and haven't been successful so far --

But we certainly need remedy for these situations!!

And good luck to you all -- hope you get the election changes!!

And thanks for the info!



:)


PS: From news at moment, looks like Cameron PM --

[Oregone]

34. Essentially, yes...

Now there are some distinctions with some of these reforms that I don't fully grasp--I am not sure precisely what Clegg is exactly in favor of, but I thought he mentioned preferential voting

In BC, we just had a vote on "Single Transferable Voting" (which was turned down, unforts, due to some heavy propaganda).

Id like to think that if every government pursued these types of reforms, the world would swing left. You never know though....

In the US, some people would be able to vote for Teabag extremists and secondly for Republicans. Thatd not be good. :)

[defendandprotect]

49. I also believe world would move to the left . . .

we are all liberals --

If that weren't true, the rw wouldn't have to control everything -- buying government

and MSM -- CIA/Pentagon controls!

Good luck to you all!

[Sanity Claws]

30. What happens if the Lib-dems pull out of a coalition government?

Does that mean elections will have to follow?
I ask because I have a feeling that this coalition is very unstable.

[Oregone]

40. I think they normally agree, on paper, to a contract with an expiration date

As long as the terms of the contract are being upheld, it may look incredibly bad publicly to not support a confidence measure you agreed earlier to support in order to share power

[ShortnFiery]

37. If Gordon Brown now chooses to ...

switch religions from the Church of Scotland to the Roman Catholic Church, he's sure to enjoy an Opus Dei in the near future. :evilgrin: :tinfoilhat:

[onehandle]

39. Thatcherism returns. nt

[defendandprotect]

54. And do you think this is really what everyone wanted . . . ??? More Thatcherism?

What happened -- did they hit the target --

or was it a misfire?

[Prophet 451]

41. David "Tory-Boy" Cameron is fucking Prime Minister. We're all fucking doomed.

fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fucking fuck-a-doodle-doo.

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:
:puke: :puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:
:cry: :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

[Oregone]

46. Bollocks

Youll be fine. The sun will come up tomorrow. Its not like putting Bush in the oval office for a full 4 years, with no recourse.

[Prophet 451]

51. I'm unemployed and disabled

I'm one of the people on the bottom of the social pile that the Tories always like to stomp on. I very much doubt I'll be "fine".

[FunkyLeprechaun]

60. Me too (still looking for a job and profoundly deaf)

But I don't think it's all doom and gloom. I'm sure Cameron has changed his position on disability due to his severely disabled son, but still not sure.

[Prophet 451]

62. I'm not sure he has

There's a tremendous disconnect in the minds of the powerful between their persnal circumstances and those of the people.

[happygoluckytoyou]

43. FOX NEWS HEADLINES... conservatives head up well-hung parliament

[happygoluckytoyou]

44. Cameron given pass on producing Birth Certificate

[Oregone]

48. LOL

[dipsydoodle]

61. Very droll

:rofl:

Aside from which I don't think we've actually got a requirement for our PM to have been born here anyway.