Afghan woman, 18, slain in fear campaign

[Robb]

Source: MSNBC

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - A gunman lying in wait shot and killed an 18-year-old woman as she left her job at a U.S.-based development company Tuesday, casting a spotlight on a stepped-up campaign of Taliban intimidation against women in this southern city where U.S. troops plan a major operation in the coming weeks.

Although there was no claim of responsibility and police said the motive for the attack was unclear, Taliban militants have been particularly harsh with women who work for foreign organizations or attend school. Bands of thugs are increasingly harassing women who want jobs, education and their own style of clothing, women and aid workers say.

In Tuesday's attack, the gunman emerged from a hiding place and shot the woman, whose first name was Hossai, after she stepped out of her office building, said deputy police chief Fazle Ahmed Shehzad. Hossai died at the hospital, and the assailant escaped.

Hossai worked for Development Alternatives, Inc., a Washington-based global consulting firm that "provides social and economic development solutions to business, government, and civil society in developing and transitioning countries," according to its Web site.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36476327/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/

---

Of course the women will be fine if we just leave.

[dionysus]

1. but i read on here that the taliban are victims, and we're uh, being insensitive about their

culture. or something.

;)

[sui generis]

7. yep. I've had some recent experience with pitchfork bearing villagers

in that very regard.

It really is quite simple: culture be damned if it impinges upon human rights. If preservation of human rights is our ethos and values standard, then it's quite easy to judge a group that removes those rights by violence and intimidation.

We are so afraid to say something is "wrong" and therefore criticize "faith", when we need to say it's wrong if it impacts human rights, regardless of one's faith.

[dionysus]

10. my concern with this war is that we have to leave eventually, and that the taliban will

simply come back and slaughter people then. but, we can't stay forever either. so it's a paradox.

[sui generis]

11. The thing with religions in general

is they're not made out of whole cloth. Islam in particular is a very "young" religion, and in each of our canonical changes (across all modern faith) that happen without violent schism, a social driver becomes a value that is incorporated into the practice, teachings, and interpretation of that faith.

So when slavery was abolished in the U.S. protestant christianity quietly followed suit in the churches in the south . . .

We have to instill a value system that places the value of human life higher than the practice of religion. And the way to do that traditionally is to make Sharia (or any religious law) law unlawful if it conflicts with the law of the land, and the law of the land must center on preserving equality and human rights through a constitutional statement.

If the U.S. exists to promote democracy instead of human rights, we fail by imagination and in practice. A democracy is not a majority vote, and is perhaps a convenient means to an end ONLY if we first have an end in mind. Establishing democracy is not an end in and of itself, unless we can state WHY we're doing it.

Establishing a standard for human rights, regardless of religious or political doctrine prevents the means from becoming the end.

[dionysus]

12. nicely stated

[tsstranger]

2. Taliban

It sure is a good thing the Bush gang wiped out the Taliban before diverting US resources to his personal family vendetta in Iraq.

What?

Shit, never mind.

[leftynyc]

3. I'm assuming your last line is sarcasm

The only reason I'm still supportive of our adventure in Afghanistan is because I know it will be the women who will suffer most when we leave. Fucking taliban makes me want to scream.

[Downwinder]

4. Development Alternatives, Inc., aren't they the ones who sent

the fellow to Cuba with a bag of communications gear?

[mvd]

5. Unfortunately, there is no perfect answer

Bush screwed it up so badly. If we stay, we waste money and lives and tread water with a corrupt government - with it possibly getting worse. Like when we accidentally killed 3 Afghan women in Feb. I think the Afghans have to improve women's rights on their own - we can't do it for them and be the world's police. We leave, and there goes the safety blanket, which we have to consider. I still support a PHASED withdrawal starting now and want our presence in the ME to be stopped. Peace is the biggest enemy of terror, and I am proud to support peace and not war.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

6. My solution to that problem -

Offer any Afghan woman (and her children if she has them) who wants it asylum in the US. They can leave, we can leave.

[Hestia]

8. Agreed HHNF - I was thinking the same thing - get out of there and come

back when sanity rules again. Of course that may not be in her lifetime, but her children lifetime.

[ShortnFiery]

28. White Man's Burden Complex?

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.

-- Rudyard Kipling

[mvd]

9. Interesting idea

:thumbsup:

[grantcart]

14. How many million are you willing to bring here?

[ShortnFiery]

17. There wouldn't be too many takers. Living in abject poverty is preferable to losing one's soul.

:shrug:

[dionysus]

19. you really love it here don't you.

:rofl:

[ShortnFiery]

23. I'm serious, would YOU want to leave your native land and people? No, I don't think so.

Further, we don't even know if this story is TRUE? I don't believe any article PA that can't be independently confirmed.

[dionysus]

25. lot's of people have left their native lands to come here. even if their native land

wasn't war torn rubble.

so yes, many would, enthusiastically.

[ShortnFiery]

26. No, not this way. Not with the aid of the INVADERS. If you wish to sell out your native ...

people and are afraid of being assassinated, then "yes" you should defect to the invader's foreign land. However, while the battle continues, it's not unusual for people not to want to co-operate with their oppressor. Go figure.

[Robb]

29. History disagrees with you.

[dionysus]

30. once again, you don't have the foggiest clue of what you're talking about.

[grantcart]

31. Seeing a long thread trailing with ignores I clicked off to see what the response was

http://www.everyculture.com/multi/A-Br/Afghan-Americans.html

Large numbers of Afghan refugees began arriving in the United States in 1980 in the wake of the Soviet invasion. Some were officially designated as refugees, while others were granted political asylum. Others arrived through a family reunification program or by illegal entry. About 2,000 to 4,000 Afghans arrived every year until 1989, when the Soviet Union withdrew its troops. Estimates of the number of Afghan refugees in the United States ranged from 45,000 to 75,000.

Read more: Afghan Americans - History, Modern era, The first afghans in america, Significant immigration waves, Settlement patterns http://www.everyculture.com/multi/A-Br/Afghan-Americans.html#ixzz0l6kXcy1D




In addition to the refugees that were parolled into the US there were another 20,000 that were issued visas.

So following the Soviet invasion where the US had little contact or involvement roughly 100,000 Afghans were taken into the US over a 9 year period because the annual number allocate for Afghan refugees was very low creating a long waiting line of several years for some. In fact out of the world wide numbers allocated by the State Department Afghan refugees were given a very small allocation and in the screening process only about 1 out of 5 of those that applied were able to get a resettlement number.

Most refugees do not want to resettle to the US for ideological reasons and I have seen Viet Cong leaders beg to be allowed entry into the US. Their motives reflect the motives of most people who are parents, stability, electricity, schools, clean water and food. Everytime the US has initiated efforts to resettle refugees the system is swamped with people who want to be taken. many who have no ties to the US at all. When people have had an association with the US those numbers go up by a large factor.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

18. As many as wanted to come.

As Short & Feiry says, many would not like to come here due to their hatred of us. I think there are others who would stay because they are true religious believers. And there are those who would view this as their way out of insanity and take the plunge.

If "what about the women?" is a rationalization for our continued involvement there, then we can work to free us from that problem. Besides, I think it is the least our country can do for all the death and horror we have done there.

[grantcart]

20. Atleast a million would come in the first wave

Now I say that having resettled 20,000 Afghans in 1981-2 before the civil war when only the strictest guidelines allowed only a fraction of those in camps to even apply and the numbers were filled within days of the allotments being announced.

Prior to the collapse of Cambodia Prince Siahonouk predicted that not many Cambodians would want to leave and that the Khmer Rouge were agrarian reformers. He encouraged thousands of them to come back and they were virtually killed including dozens of his own family members.

[ShortnFiery]

24. Bull! You don't think that Afghan women have a strong sense of national pride? Think again. eom

[ShortnFiery]

16. Most of the Women hate the invaders who kill their men and children MORE than they hate either

the men who beat them OR the taliban who oppress and use them as human shields.

It's called nationalism and it exists strong in EVERY country, not just OURS.

http://yorick.infinitejest.org:81/1/img/card-afghan_citizens.jpg

[Flaneur]

13. Okay, we get it: Taliban bad. That still doesn't justify our occupation.

Let the Afghans solve their problems themselves. At least then we can stop killing them.

[Robb]

21. Sitting it out is working well in the Sudan.. nt

[ShortnFiery]

27. If they had oil, we'd be in there in a heartbeat as well as North Korea. eom

[dflprincess]

22. Anyway, we're not there to fight the Taliban

and, in the very recent past, offered money to any of them who will renounce ties to Al Qeada.

When push comses to shove, the U.S. doesn't give a damn about the rights of women anywhere in the world. In the past we made it very difficult for women from Afghanistan to gain asylum and we continue to do so for women in other parts of the world as we fail to acknowledge that enslavement and sexual abuse of women are human rights violations that are severe enough to warrent granting asylym.

[ShortnFiery]

15. They won't be fine either way. But the women don't appreciate the invading forces any more ....

than the men.

http://yorick.infinitejest.org:81/1/img/card-women_taliban.jpg http://yorick.infinitejest.org:81/1/img/card-women_n_alliance.jpg