S.C. pol wants to ban U.S. currency

[my2sense]

Source: UPI

COLUMBIA, S.C., Feb. 17 (UPI) -- A lawmaker who introduced a bill to ban the use of Federal Reserve Notes in South Carolina says he doubts colleagues have the "intestinal fortitude" to pass it.

The measure, introduced this month by Republican state Rep. Mike Pitts, would ban what Pitts called "the unconstitutional substitution of Federal Reserve Notes for silver and gold coin" in his state, The Palmetto Scoop reported Wednesday. Pitts said the idea is to allow South Carolina to "function through gold and silver coinage" and allow the state to have a "base of currency" if the U.S. economy collapses.

Legal experts doubt the measure would pass constitutional muster, The Scoop said. One expert, whose name was not reported, said gold and silver coins cannot be used as currency anyway.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2010/02/17/SC-pol-wants-to-ban-US-currency/UPI-33051266457336/

[Pirate Smile]

1. South Carolina. Here you go again....

[neverforget]

2. I'm at a loss for words......

:crazy:

[MaineDem]

3. What???

Good grief!

[sharesunited]

4. The U.S. mint produces gold and silver coinage which you could try to circulate.

But they would be hoarded and quickly disappear from commerce. This is called Gresham's Law.

[dencol]

8. This would quickly bankrupt the state.

Gold and silver would be flowing out of there so fast! Even I would be tempted to go over there and melt down coins after being unemployed for over a year!

[MicaelS]

21. There is not enough gold and silver in existence

To return to the "gold standard". Not unless people want to start paying $15,000 / oz or for gold.

The math works this way:

161,000 tons mined though all of history http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/01/gold/larmer-text/3

times 2,000 pounds per tons = 322,000,000 pounds

times 12 troy oz per pound = 3,864,000,000 troy oz of gold ever mined, say 4,000,000,000 as a round number

So at this point you have to decide what the total "worth" of everything on earth is. I have seen numbers as high as 60,000,000,000,000 bandied about. That is 60 trillion USD. So 60 trillion divided by 4 billion is 15 thousand.

And yes you are right, people would soon start to hoard gold.

[Randall Flagg]

5. Is there something in the water? The air?

Idiots seem to be coming out of the woodwork every time I blink my eyes.

[LiberalFighter]

6. They are probably drinking water from Indiana.

[No Elephants]

13. Please stop blinking then.

[KILL THE WISE ONE]

18. no it's the Gene pool

[Skip Intro]

38. yeah, we all jest a bunch a inbreds down here...

:eyes:

[Tunkamerica]

46. yeah! almost as inbred as all those heroin junkies in seattle.

[LiberalFighter]

7. I would like them to pass the bill and try to make it work. And fail.

Sorry SC

[Renew Deal]

9. Who elects these nuts?

:wtf:

[my2sense]

11. You would think folks

would kick him to the curb already! Just as I thought Perry would have been run out of Texas for suggesting secession?

[No Elephants]

16. You would think a secessionist would not have made it to the VP slot, either.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Supposedly, it was only Tawd and she was just being a hospitable Governor.

Then again, supposedly, she said "thanks but no thanks" no to the bridge to nowhere, and that turned out not to be the whole story, either.

[tbredbeck]

10. I think Comedy Central must be behind this.

[No Elephants]

27. S.C. is Colbert's state, but I did not realize he still had that much juice there!

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1573288/20071101/id_0.jhtml

[dkf]

12. Classic doomsday mentality.

Which isn't very crazy after you see how fragile our economic system is.

[rasputin1952]

48. In a real "Doomsday", an apple would be worth more than gold...

or silver, you can't eat them...;)

[Lucky Luciano]

14. LOL!! nt

[seg]

15. I never understood

Why gold and silver stolen from native peoples all over the world is considered more legitimate than government printed money.

[defendandprotect]

17. We should at the least move from Fed Reserve notes -- let Treasury print our money ....

[No Elephants]

26. Sounds good to me.

[onenote]

68. can you explain what difference that would make?

[Suji to Seoul]

19. So, we fought a Civil War to bring these assclowns back into the Union why?

South Carolina. . .this isn't 1776 ot 1861. You do not have veto power anymore. In fact, you barely have voters anymore.

Please. . .just SHUT THE FUCK UP!!! Go away and take that asshole Jim DeMint with you.

[aquart]

24. Why? So we wouldn't be Europe.

We have had ONE civil war. How many have they had?

[No Elephants]

30. I'm glad we fought the Civil War, but maybe we could invite some states to leave the U.S..

Trouble is, the states that pay the most in federal taxes without getting all of it back in federal aid might be the first to go; and I'd be sad about them. And then, there's the problem of the good folks in South Carolina.

These things often have unintended consequences.

So, "united we stand," it is, I guess.

Your "STFU" solution sounds pretty good, though.

[Skip Intro]

39. The ability to equate one man to the entire population of a state amazes me.

Really, it baffles my mind that you would make a comment like the one above with any seriousness. "I see this guy as a moron, therefore the entire state must be full of morons." Didn't take any effort at all to form that opinion, did it?

[Suji to Seoul]

40. Dude. . .grow some thicker skin.

[CTLawGuy]

51. take into account that he is an elected official.

i.e. other people in that state voted for him to have political power.

[RaleighNCDUer]

42. The civil war was lost the day that congress relplaced 'E Pluribus Unum' with

'In god we trust'.

It replaced the concept of a united republic with that of a religiously ordained state.

Everything since has been movement to make that change complete.

[defendandprotect]

63. Interesting --- and I agree --

[Uncle Joe]

64. Ironically, I believe using that term in such a context subliminally projects money as God.

Jesus threw the money-changers out of the Temple because they were corrupting the religious authority and what also passed as the government of the day, now we print "In God We Trust" on our money.

When Jesus said "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's" he prefaced that statement with a question as to 'Whose name and inscription were on it?' He believed in a separation.

It was first used by the Union on a 2 cent coin in 1864 during the Civil War, another irony both sides cited God and the Bible as justification for their point of view, this was also the birth of the Robber Baron Era and ultimately the Gilded Age.

In both cases 1864 and the official adoption of 1956, religion was the motivating context whether it be from the division of bloody Civil War or the Red Scare Fear of atheism.

In short I believe printing that motto on money violates the First Amendment and the teachings of Jesus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust

<snip>

As excerpted from the United States Treasury Department's public education website:<5>

The motto In God We Trust was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the American Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout Christians throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize God on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861. It was written to Secretary Salmon P. Chase by Reverend M. R. Watkinson, Minister of the Gospel from Ridley Township, Pennsylvania, and read:

Dear Sir: You are about to submit your annual report to the Congress respecting the affairs of the national finances. One fact touching our currency has hitherto been seriously overlooked. I mean the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins. You are probably a Christian. What if our Republic were not shattered beyond reconstruction? Would not the antiquaries of succeeding centuries rightly reason from our past that we were a heathen nation? What I propose is that instead of the goddess of liberty we shall have next inside the 13 stars a ring inscribed with the words PERPETUAL UNION; within the ring the allseeing eye, crowned with a halo; beneath this eye the American flag, bearing in its field stars equal to the number of the States united; in the folds of the bars the words GOD, LIBERTY, LAW. This would make a beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object. This would relieve us from the ignominy of heathenism. This would place us openly under the Divine protection we have personally claimed. From my heart I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters.

To you first I address a subject that must be agitated.

As a result, Secretary Chase instructed James Pollock, Director of the Mint at Philadelphia, to prepare a motto, in a letter dated November 20, 1861:

Dear Sir: No nation can be strong except in the strength of God, or safe except in His defense. The trust of our people in God should be declared on our national coins. You will cause a device to be prepared without unnecessary delay with a motto expressing in the fewest and tersest words possible this national recognition.

It was found that the Act of Congress dated January 18, 1837, prescribed the mottoes and devices that should be placed upon the coins of the United States. This meant that the mint could make no changes without the enactment of additional legislation by Congress. In December 1863, the Director of the Mint submitted designs for a new one-cent coin, two-cent coin, and three-cent coin to Secretary Chase for approval. He proposed that upon the designs either OUR COUNTRY, OUR GOD or GOD, OUR TRUST should appear as the motto on the coins. In a letter to the Mint Director on December 9, 1863, Secretary Chase stated:

I approve your mottoes, only suggesting that on that with the Washington obverse the motto should begin with the word OUR, so as to read OUR GOD AND OUR COUNTRY. And on that with the shield, it should be changed so as to read: IN GOD WE TRUST.


1864 two cent coin with mottoCongress passed the Coinage Act (1864) on April 22, 1864. This legislation changed the composition of the one-cent coin and authorized the minting of the two-cent coin. The Mint Director was directed to develop the designs for these coins for final approval of the Secretary. In God We Trust first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin.

<snip>

[mitchum]

20. Not sandlappers, but mouthbreathers

[aquart]

22. Has he even glanced at the constitution?

[CherokeeDem]

23. I Simply Cannot Believe This...

This is my home state...a state where at the high school I went to, I got the equivalent of associate degree; where NASA scientists came to lecture. The English department took us to meet Arthur C. Clark...what the hell happened to the intelligence in that state. It used to be there. It was never as racist or backward as some other states I have been to; believe I saw more racism in the midwest than I ever did in SC then.

This state is now an embarrassment to the nation and I am ashamed. I am no longer from SC, I am going to claim my birth certificate is from Hawaii.

[rpannier]

29. There was a period in the late 80's and early 90's

where a lot of the nuttiest of the fundies moved to South Carolina to turn it into a land governed by God's laws.
Many who moved talked about the possibility of seceding to make their dream come true

I don't know how many actually made the move, but it appears it was quite a few

[mitchum]

31. I'm with you; I grew up in Greenville during a shockingly progressive and welcome time...

but I guess it has all gone to hell since Max Heller left public office. A damned shame.

[Mopar151]

44. I worked with a guy

Who had a 4-year degree from Bob Jones University. Devout baptist, but a good egg. Got married, family on the way, cost of living high in NH.... Took a job in the same industry, in good ol' Greenville.
3 years later, I'm walkin' into work, he's strollin in like he never left. "Good to have you back! What's up?"
I'll never forget his reply - "I wish to raise my children in their native culture." The stories around the lunch table went on for days....Panic like domestic turkeys at the sight of a snowflake,polarization by race, class, religion, yankee or rebel - pretty sad.

[obxhead]

36. I recently left SC

Only lived there for 3 years (05-08). Not sure when you went to school there, but I think it's a little different now.

During my short time there I viewed several PBS documentaries on the SC school system. They are currently one of the worst in the country, ranked 49th I believe. Some schools there have become structurally unsafe and toxic to the students that attend them. They showed students listening to their teacher with a bucket next to their desks catching watter from the leaking ceilings, vermin caught on tape on several schools, and some schools setting up trailers next to the buildings not because of a lack of space, but due to the buildings being flat out condemned. It was a terribly disturbing program.

Not all the people in SC are bad or nutters as the news would have you believe, but I will say after my 3 year stay there, that the general intellect of a good portion of people in SC is odd at the very least.

[Bette Noir]

25. Wouldn't this be tantamount to secession?

They did that before. How'd that work out?

[Lasher]

47. Yes, it's a dog whistle for secessionists.

More about Pitts here:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2009/0327/p02s01-usgn.html

[DBoon]

55. I think it's also a dog whistle for anti-semitism

Federal Reserve = proxy for "Jewish controlled financial system"

[Lasher]

59. Hmm. I didn't think of it that way but you could have a point.

For wont of a better label, this is the teabagger crowd we're talking about. They are a mixed bag of hate and greed.

[ProudDad]

28. He's on the right track...

This article is MUCH closer to Truth than fiction...

U.S. Economy Grinds To Halt As Nation Realizes Money Just A Symbolic, Mutually Shared Illusion

WASHINGTON—The U.S. economy ceased to function this week after unexpected existential remarks by Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke shocked Americans into realizing that money is, in fact, just a meaningless and intangible social construct.

Calling it "basically no more than five rectangular strips of paper," Fed chairman Ben Bernanke illustrates how much "$200" is actually worth.

What began as a routine report before the Senate Finance Committee Tuesday ended with Bernanke passionately disavowing the entire concept of currency, and negating in an instant the very foundation of the world's largest economy.

"Though raising interest rates is unlikely at the moment, the Fed will of course act appropriately if we…if we…" said Bernanke, who then paused for a moment, looked down at his prepared statement, and shook his head in utter disbelief. "You know what? It doesn't matter. None of this—this so-called 'money'—really matters at all."

"It's just an illusion," a wide-eyed Bernanke added as he removed bills from his wallet and slowly spread them out before him. "Just look at it: Meaningless pieces of paper with numbers printed on them. Worthless."

According to witnesses, Finance Committee members sat in thunderstruck silence for several moments until Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) finally shouted out, "Oh my God, he's right. It's all a mirage. All of it—the money, our whole economy—it's all a lie!"

Screams then filled the Senate Chamber as lawmakers and members of the press ran for the exits, leaving in their wake aisles littered with the remains of torn currency.

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/u_s_economy_grinds_to_halt_as

[Downwinder]

41. +

[rasputin1952]

49. All "money" is fiat...

it has no inherent value, only the value that a human being is willing to accept it has.

Gold, silver, platinum, diamonds....by themselves, have zero inherent value. It's value is merely a perceived value because of it's scarcity.

Real value is established by necessity, one can eat food, so it has an inherent value. One can build shelter and make clothing for survival, out of natural resources, so they have inherent value. The value of fiat currency is only that which the faith of the individual in it's ability to purchase goods and services is what makes it desirable as a medium of exchange.

Only consumables that sustain life have any inherent value, everything else is extraneous...:hi:

[Lasher]

60. Oh yeah, well I could build a shelter out of diamonds if I had enough of them.

I kid, hee hee!

You have a good point, I agree with you.

[rasputin1952]

62. That would be one fantastic shelter!

Impervious to many of natures "problems"...:D

Of course, you'd now have to upgrade to defend said shelter...Let the Arms War begin!...

[CTLawGuy]

52. yeah

no shock here. Paper and coin money has value because you know everyone else in your country will take it and give it that same value.

That "money" that Republicans love so much, is nothing more than a creation of the big bad government!

[Blue_Tires]

54. lol...back in the day my dad and i used to kick around that discussion

on true value versus percieved value...

[Arkana]

32. First nullification, then secession, now this.

You know what, SC? Go. Just LEAVE.

GET OUT.

Even Andrew Jackson, one of our most racist Presidents, would not tolerate your shit.

[struggle4progress]

33. Hey, Mike! If ye ain't like dollars, why ain't ye jest barter? Home brew wud make

good money, cuz ye'd got somethin to guzzle when yer secessionist butt gets dropped kicked

[Aristus]

34. Hey, South Carolina! Try this!:

Good luck with that, by the way...

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Wizard]

43. Wasn't South Carolina the last state

to ratify the 13th Amendment, sometime in the late 20th Century?
If they pass this legislation the federal government might be justified in cutting off all federal funds going to the state. You get what you pay for and the government you deserve.

[ozymandius]

58. Not quite.

Every state had to ratify the 13th Amendment in order to be re-admitted to the Union after the Civil War. South Carolina ratified the 13th on November 13, 1865.

[Hubert Flottz]

45. If I was on Fort Sumter I'd be digging a bomb shelter.

I wouldn't vacation in that Rebel state if they paid me.

Edit...Mike Hunt might be in South Carolina, but my @$$ will stay right here in West Bye Gawd!

http://shunn.livejournal.com/305668.html

[truthisfreedom]

50. Fascinating.

[bamacrat]

53. Why do so many want us to return to the 1600s.

Gold and silver coinage? Only the rich would have enough money for that to convert. Oh I see why they want it now. What a bunch of Sarah Palins (my new euphemism for retard(s, ed). "Intestinal fortitude"? Lack of brains do not mean more guts.

[panzerfaust]

56. Yep. The Civil War WAS a mistake

Truly

[unblock]

57. s.c. republicans: leading the way forward into the 19th century!

[47of74]

61. The Stupid, it Burns

[Unvanguard]

65. Blatantly unconstitutional and ludicrously stupid. n/t

[izquierdista]

66. Tips for visiting South Carolina

1) Wait to fill your gas tank until you get there. They have yet to learn how to collect revenue from "gasoline taxes".
1a) Don't say the phrase "gasoline taxes" to them. It's like saying "fox" to a bunch of clucking hens.

2) Buy yourself a Boomhauer-English dictionary for use in traveling off paved roads.

3) Bring a pair of binoculars so that liquor bottles will appear to be their proper size.

4) Bring extra toiletries, drinks, and snacks to last you until "after church is out".

5) Don't assume that a blue crescent moon denotes an outhouse nearby.

6) Bargain with the natives without smiling; more than 1 or 2 teeth is seen as a sign of extreme wealth.

7) Gift certificates to Maurice's BBQ can be used judiciously to pacify the xenophobic natives.

8) Be confident that you can fool them. Lindsey Graham has been doing so for years....

[Historic NY]

67. Confederate dollars? Where's the gold & silver mine?.............

Do there jackass's ever play back what they say? They really want to go back to a time when states coined their own money.

[and-justice-for-all]

69. Pukes sure do know how to do one thing right...

waste time and money on shit that is not important.

[jmowreader]

70. If only Mike Pitts knew how bad his idea would fuck his state

Among other things, there are several Michelin facilities (Michelin USA is headquartered in Greenville) and an Owens-Corning chopped-strand fiberglass plant in South Carolina. Banning the use of Federal Reserve Notes, and presumably electronic representations of them, would do nothing but cause Michelin and O-C to remove their factories to sane states.

[DemoTex]

72. Don't forget the hugh! BMW plant in the Upstate.

I hope Mike Pitts' mommy is proud of her little boy. My mom taught me to engage my mind before opening my mouth.

[jmowreader]

73. Yes, you are very correct. Thank you.

BMW has a European Delivery Program for some of its fine automobiles...you travel to Munich, pick up the car, drive around Europe for two weeks then drive it to Bremerhaven where it is bagged up and sent to the US. In the rules: "Not available on (list of cars made by BMW USA)." Apparently they decided anyone willing to travel a long distance to meet his or her new BMW would NOT want to travel to Spartanburg--one of the blandest cities in the South. There's nothing intrinsically WRONG with Spartanburg, it is what it is; it's just that what it is ain't what someone wants to fly three thousand miles to experience. Well, there IS that Krystal stand at the Kangaroo Express truck stop in Greenville...

[maseman]

71. Let's do away with SC instead of currency