Anti-whaling activist 'boards Japanese ship'

[The Traveler]

Source: SYDNEY(AFP) via Yahoo News

An anti-whaling activist has boarded a Japanese security ship to make a citizen's arrest of its captain over last month's sinking of a high-tech boat, an animal rights group said on Monday.

New Zealand's Pete Bethune, captain of the futuristic Ady Gil powerboat which was smashed in two on January 6, jumped aboard the Japanese ship from a jetski under the cover of darkness, the Sea Shepherd group said.


Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/australianzealandjapanwhaling

---

Sea Shepherd accuses the Japanese whalers of attempted murder due to the ramming of their high speed vessel the Ady Gil. Based on footage taken by both parties, I have to say it sure looks to me like they might have a case ... it will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

Trav

** edited for typos **

[MercutioATC]

1. Well, he'll be their "guest" until they decide to dump him somewhere.

If I was the captain of the Shonan Maru 2, I'd douse him with butyric acid before I threw him in the brig.

[proteus_lives]

2. +1

[The Traveler]

3. Something along those lines, I would imagine

But it does create certain problems for the blighters. Watson is something of a drama queen ... but sometimes that works out ...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

5. They pulled that same stunt last year and the Aussie government intervened to get them released

that may not work this time around. He may be their guest for the duration of the season.

[Violet_Crumble]

95. I'm sure that captain isn't a complete wanker, coz it'd take one to do that. n/t

[zonkers]

4. Boarded the boat at night?! From a jetski? This man is insane. He's like 007. Wow.

[MercutioATC]

8. Maybe 006 1/2

Bond's developmentally challenged cousin.

[DissedByBush]

6. Finally maybe somebody will throw one of these guys jail

Flying a pirate flag, interfering with legal fishing (detestable, but legal), attempting to strand boats via prop fouling, attacking boats, illegally boarding boats, ramming boats.

Too bad it's not Watson.

I've seen the video of the Steve Irwin. The Japanese vessel was cruising straight, firing its water cannons to keep the Steve Irwin away, when the Steve Irwin suddenly turns hard to the right and rams the Japanese vessel with the right side of its bow about a quarter of the way up on the left side of the Japanese vessel.

The Ady Gil collision looked damning to the ICR from both the ICR and Sea Shepherd videos. I thought it was the whaler's fault. Then I realized there's no context for motion in the ocean. You can't really tell who is doing what.

Until I saw the wake behind the Ady Gil in the seconds before the impact.

They took off straight ahead into the path of the whaler.

[The Traveler]

9. Can't agree with your analysis

There are references. Watch the angle on the bow ... the Shonan definitely turned to starboard. The Gil throttles up a few seconds after bow aspect changes, but there isn't enough time to avoid the strike. If she hadn't tried to scamper out the way, the Gil might have gotten by with a close hair cut ... but that is hard to determine fer sure from either footage.

What would be damning in court would be the footage of continued water cannon operation against the Ady Gil as the crew tried to recover from the shock of the impact. The strike itself ... hey, maybe that's just what happens when you play bumper tag on the high seas. But a good prosecutor could make the case that continued water cannon operation after the strike indicated hostile intent.

Trav

[AtheistCrusader]

14. If the Ady Gil had remained still

It wouldn't have been hit, or would have been lightly scraped. Unfortunately they moved forward (clear from the wake of the Gil, as they powered up and moved forward) just prior to impact, which makes the contact something of a mutual 'at fault'. Had this simply been a ship as deceptively manouverable as the Shonan Maru 2 (it is a fast, nimble ship, despite it's size) overtaking a motionless ship and hit, it would be clear cut at-fault.

Skipper of the Gil screwed up too. Reverse was the correct solution, or remain motionless and trust to nautical law to sort it out.

But the skipper of the Shonan Maru 2 has something to answer for as well, having put both ships in that situation. The Gil WAS motionless as the Shonan Maru 2 approached from miles off, and they were clearly aware of it's presence, LRAD's and water cannon blasting away at it.

[baldguy]

37. Bullshit.

There are three videos of the incident available on YouTube: from the Ady Gil, from the Bob Barker & from the attacking whaler. They ALL show the Ady Gil being stationary while the whaler intentionally alters it's course and runs over the Ady Gil.

Any other characterization of the incident is a distortion of the facts.

[AtheistCrusader]

40. The wake does not lie.

Watch the video from the deck of the Shonan Maru 2. look at the water directly astern of the Ady Gil. Cry bullshit all you want, the Ady Gil was at full flank ahead at the time of impact. Period. It moved TOWARD the path of the Shonan Maru 2.

Would they have hit otherwise? Possibly. Did the skipper of the Shonan Maru 2 put both ships in danger? Certainly. Did the skipper of the Shonan Maru 2 improperly overtake a stationary ship? Certainly.

But the Gil DOES move forward, and seals it's fate. Skipper of the Ady Gil shares some responsibility, even if it was 'oh shit I panicked because I thought we were going to get run over'. A reasonable response, but useless emotion when apportioning blame.


Edit: 14 seconds in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anXPPTk-jY8&feature=related A stationary ship does not kick up a wake like that. The 'Gil was stationary as the Shonan Maru 2 approached. 14 seconds into that video, it's engines go from idle to full flank.

Again, I cannot say they would not have made contact without that motion. It certainly seems to me they took a situation where the two ships might have shared some paint, and turned it into a total wreck.

Some allowance should also be made for the skipper of the Ady Gil being subjected to the harrasment of the LRAD's I suppose. If that doesn't impact decision making processes, nothing will.

[baldguy]

42. When you assume prop wash is a wake, it does.

(Interesting that you chose the video from the whaling ship.)

When the capt of the Ady Gil realized the 500 tn ship was bearing down on him with the obvious intention of ramming him, he engaged his propellers. But you can't make the assumption he was able to move his vessel any distance in that short time and retain any credibility.

[AtheistCrusader]

43. You assume a lot.

First off, it clearly moves quite a bit. Second, you assume they were going to run the Ady Gil over. This sort of encounter had happened before. Before THIS incident, they just pasted the 'gil, and other Sea Shepard vessels with the water cannons and LRAD's at close range. Dangerous to be sure, but there's been tons of that. Entirely possible that's what was about to happen here.

And it's not just prop wash, it's wake too. The 'Gil is moving. Considerably. As is the Shonan Maru 2. Both vessels, and particularly the Shonan Maru 2 are deceptively fast and agile.j If the Gil's transmissions were in reverse, the prop wash would be pretty much invisible on this video.

Edit: Are you kidding? Are you actually implying something because I chose the only video that clearly shows the stern of the Ady Gil?

[baldguy]

47. I guess you live in a world with no momentum.

You know: "an object at rest will tend to stay at rest; an object in motion will tend to stay in motion." This concept has been well understood for thousands of years, and was fully quantified almost 350 years ago.

If you ever looked at the video shot from the Ady Gil, you'd see that she was stationary. The crew was not preparing to collide with the Shonan Maru 2. The larger ship came upon them very quickly; they barely had time to react. A two-second burst from their propellers made no difference in her position: they were under the Shanon Maru's bow before, and they were under it after.

On the other hand, the Shonan Maru was well-prepared for the ramming: they were obscuring the view of their ship by the Ady Gill with water cannons well before contact. They had plenty of time to avoid a collision, but did nothing to widen the gap between the two vessels. Instead they set their course to with deliberation to collide with the Ady Gill long before.

The capt of the Ady Gil may be guilty of not paying attention to the traffic around her, but the capt of the Shonan Maru is guilty of attempted murder.

[DissedByBush]

49. I do live in a world with inertia

That's what you're thinking about. Not momentum.

Two 540 hp marine engines can overcome the inertia of a 13-ton trimaran and get it moving forward rather quickly.

That gave it forward momentum, straight into the larger ship.

If they had relied on inertia, sitting still, the Sonan Maru 2 would have missed them.

The Maru isn't completely guiltless. They were doing what the Shepherd people do all the time -- make a buzzing pass on the other ship to scare it or change its course.

The Ady Gil's pilot turned a close buzz into a collision.

[AtheistCrusader]

57. Or possibly

a minor collision into 'oh crap bail out'.

It was going to be close, but we'll never know just how close I guess.

[AtheistCrusader]

56. The Earthrace was equipped with significant motive power.

What you see behind the Ady Gil is prop wash AND wake. Meaning the ship is in motion. We don't have a solid frame of reference, but to me, the wake indicates significant motion. Twin 540bhp Cummins Mercruiser engines can motivate. In fact, I'm saddened I don't have the capability to undertake salvage operations on what remains of the ship. (Last known, it's still afloat)

I never said the crew of the Ady Gil intended to collide. That would be a silly thing to do, their hull isn't even metal. Clearly they did not intend to make contact. As I said, the skipper of the Ady Gil may have made a mistake (when in doubt, power out(TM)), or may have been pressed into a bad decision by the LRADs and water cannon. Plus, the pilot has somewhat limited visibility in the cockpit, and it's not clear if the ship was being controlled from the cockpit, or from flying bridge controls on the deck. On deck the crew has better visibility, but greater exposure to the LRAD's and water cannon.

Again, you assume the Shonan Maru 2 intended to make contact. You cannot prove this. I think it's reasonable to conclude they wanted close range for the water cannons, which have a range of about 50m.

On 'attempted murder', you have to prove intent. You have not. If anyone could, they would have done so by now. Both sides are engaged in dangerous practices that make this sort of contact likely. It does not prove murderous intent.


For what it's worth, I'd like to see the 'Gil salvaged, repaired, and back in action, under Sea Shepard. (if it's wreck is still floating, it may not be by now)

[DissedByBush]

44. As I said, the appearance of stationary made me believe too

Stationary is hard to tell with flat seas, no point of reference to see what is stationary and what is moving.

You can see the Maru isn't stationary because of the waves around the ship. It turned towards, but not directly at, the Gil. Its path would have it miss the Gil by some distance.

You can clearly see the Gil isn't stationary because of the wake it kicks up before the impact. They were accelerating towards the Maru before the impact.

It's a guy who jumps in front of a moving bus. The bus in the road would have missed him by a couple of feet, but he jumped, placing himself in front of the bus.

[ro1942]

24. Wow are you serious

[24601]

27. I used to watch this show and rooted for the Sea Shepherds; however,

the crap Watson pulls strips his credibility. He is an unsafe skipper and his ticket needs to be pulled before a human is killed.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

39. Actually, being willing to die to save a whale is one of Watsons KEY requirement to join em

About a third into the video clip: http://www.scoop.co.nz/multimedia/tv/world/31261.html

I also love how he defends sinking whaling ships in that clip :p

[24601]

58. He lies (for example, fake "saved by the badge" scam) and has

no credibility left. Regardless of his motive, his intent is to operate his ship in violation of the laws of the sea and his license should be revoked.

Willing to die is fine as long as he dies obeying the laws of the sea. Just because he's willing doesn't give him the right to endanger others.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

59. i fully agree with ya

Just wanted to point out that he more or less require anybody on his ship to agree that they are willing to die to save a whale to be permitted aboard(according to his own words)

The truth or lies behind it is his business; i don't trust him at all personally

[jmowreader]

62. Watson has no captain's papers

And right now, the Japanese whalers have Peter Bethune sitting ramrod straight in a chair as they read to him the law of the sea regarding punishments for pirates. I believe walking the plank is still an acceptable sentence for piracy...and Bethune's actions, including prop fouling and boarding, qualify as acts of piracy.

[RexDart]

79. Do they still have yardarms?

Just wondering.

[jmowreader]

83. They can find somewhere in the antenna system to serve as a yardarm

Of course, the Japanese have had the "seppuku" tradition for many years. It would be safer to do that than to string Bethune up from the antenna array.

'Course, nothing is preventing them from sinking his feet in a bucket of concrete, taking him to Cape Hatteras (which is infested with large pelagic sharks), and dropping him in.

[TheMadMonk]

7. And that would be piracy on the high seas. nt

[The Traveler]

10. Nope

Other charges, to be sure ... but not piracy. Not unless he tried to take control of the ship or its cargo by force.

[Lance_Boyle]

36. He attempted to arrest the captain. That's attempting to gain control. n/t

[Arrowhead2k1]

11. Of course it's Sea Shepherd, who else? Those guys are out of control.

They are provocateurs at best.

[Duppers]

17. more people should be that "out of control"

it's the only way some things get done.

on edit:
I'll not reply if you happen to comment on my post.
You're on my ignore list now (as if you'd give a flying.....).

[Arrowhead2k1]

19. What have they got done exactly anyways? They bring more negative attention to themselves.

I for one am less likely to sympathize with their cause because of the way they do business, and I know many others feel that way too.

Also, if you wish to shut your ears to me and be ignorant to contrary opinions, then you're absolutely right, I couldn't give a flying fuck. Says more about what type of person you are anyways. :shrug:

[JoeyT]

52. Do you always base your support for a cause on the actions of some of the people that support it?

That seems like a pretty flaky way of deciding what to support. I tend to agree with their cause, just not their theatrics.

They're not really "out of control" either. Out of control would be kidnapping a bunch of whalers and shooting one every time a whale is killed. Mostly what they are is drama queens that are occasionally funny. The mental image of a hippie ninja-flipping from a jet ski to a whaling ship is kind of funny, and if he'd missed he wouldn't have hurt anyone but himself.

Edited to add: Plus if the whalers have to feed him he may find they only have whale meat on board. Ten bucks says he eats it.

[Posteritatis]

60. I'm a fan of supporting effective actions

I haven't seen many from these guys. "Raising awareness" doesn't count, as that's the standard activist copout.

[TheMadMonk]

66. Japanese whaling was on the decline when Green Peace and then...

...this bunch of dickheads jumped in and demanded an immediate stop then and there, turning what was an ecconomic issue as market demand fell, into one of face where price becomes unimportant.

[Duppers]

88. oh, grief.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_Japan

http://www.cgeorgemuller.com/summary.htm

[TheMadMonk]

89. Good grief right back at you.

Nothing there invalidates the argument that left to their own devices, Japan would have abandoned whaling for economic reasons. There is not sufficient commercial demand for the whale meat they currently produce and there has not been for many years. However, backing down in the face of direct opposition that labels them monsters would be a great loss of face. And with face involved economic arguments become moot.

[Duppers]

92. So, you're defending a country who'd rather kill intelligent animals than 'Lose Face.'

Even though they're losing money! Terrific.

Yep, that deserves respect ok. :sarcasm:




Are you of Japanese descent? And before you accuse me for racism, I must tell you that one of our best, LONG-time friends is Chinese. In fact, we're going back to China to spend a month this Sept. So, no, I do not dislike most Asians, only those who kill intelligent animals.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7404206&mesg_id=7404552


Scientists say dolphins should be treated as 'non-human persons'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/article6973994.ece

[TreasonousBastard]

12. The Sea Shepherd must be part of one of the biggest scams...

us treehuggers have ever fallen for.

Millions raised and spent, lives and property endangered playing "chicken on the sea" and not only has not one lousy whale been saved, the Japanese and Norwegians are convincing other countries that minke whales are overpopulated and need to be hunted, so whatever controls there are now may be lifted at the next convention.

I hate the thought of whaling, and don't buy the minke whale argument, but these clowns on the Sea Shepehrd are the very defnition of counterproductive. I suspect they're hoping one of them dies-- the publicity would be awesome.

[flvegan]

13. Hold on..."not one lousy whale" Really?

Yeah, I'm calling you out.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. I think that's a over-broad absoute, but for the most part

Sea Shepard has been ineffective lately. Fast security ships like the Shonan Maru 2 have been keeping the Steve Irwin and others at bay, while the fishing fleet goes about it's business, largely uninterfered with. That's part of why the EarthRace/Ady Gil was so important. It was their one vessle capable of dealing with the Shonan Maru 2 (which is not a freighter, it's a VERY fast very nimble ship), and it was to allow the Barker and the Irwin to get into range of the fishing vessles, which are NOT fast or nimble.

[TreasonousBastard]

33. OK, maybe a few here and there, but among those that count..

like anyone involved in the next whaling conference, the whalers themselves, the governments supporting whaling... nothing but publicity stunts. Dangerous and expensive publicity stunts.

This will keep ramping up until someone dies. Then what?

There are over 30 nations out there whaling, and then there's those exemptions for Esquimeau who insist on keeping to the old ways-- exemptions no one but me seems to object to. But, find a way to convince Japan to stop subsidizing its fleet and whaling pretty much stops.

(Internally, the anti-whaling movement seems to be growing in Japan-- they end up freezing more whale meat than they sell.)

[TLM]

69. They stop nothing....

These sea shepherd idiots have done ZIP to save whales... NOTHING.

Unless you think the Japanese whalers are going to somehow be moved to stop, after seeing footage of a bunch of spoiled trust fund hippies crying on the bridge of their ship over whales being killed...

The most these morons have been able to accomplish is possibly spoiling some of the whale meat, after they've been slaughtered.

And what's worse is they make efforts of groups like green peace, less credible and less effective.

They act like pirates, and should be treated as such...

[Number9Dream]

32. Unsubstantiated statements

"...not one lousy whale..." Interesting choice of adjective... lousy. Also a totally unsubstantiated claim.
These "lousy" marine mammals are sentient beings which have complex social structures, and use communication that we are just beginning to comprehend.

http://www.whaletrust.org/whales/whale_social_organization.html

Also unsubstantiated: "the Japanese and Norwegians are convincing other countries that minke whales are overpopulated and need to be hunted..."

It seems the opposite is true. Chile recently turned all of its Pacific Ocean waters into a whale sanctuary.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/topstories/2008-10-15-3809440330_x.htm

http://www.acsonline.org/issues/whaling/index.html

snip> "There is no agreement within the IWC regarding the number of whales in the world's oceans, particularly the Southern Ocean minke whale stocks, Japan's prime target. It is scientifically unsound to base any kind of hunt on essentially unknown population numbers."

snip> "In May 2002, 21 prominent scientists, including 3 Nobel Prize winners, challenged the scientific credibility of Japan's whaling program."

[TreasonousBastard]

34. Last year's IWC had over 30 nations voting as a bloc...

lead by Japan, to widen whaling. IIRC, it barely managed to stop Japan from going after humpbacks.

The IWC is being torn apart, and the whaling nations complain that it was started to control whaling, not eliminate it, but the addition of countries like Switzerland tilted it toward abolition. I'd have to check to see if Iceland and a few others who left are back in. Even Canada flounced off a while back. Lessee how the next meeting goes, and who manages to buy off the small island vote this year.

I'm aware of the science involved in whale counting, and don't agree with Japan's stance, nor do I have to google articles about it, but the point is that international politics rule, not my understanding of a science I'm not an expert in.

In all of this, a few few publicity seekers and fundraisers just don't matter.

(Unless someone dies-- but that probably won't save many whales, either.)

[Number9Dream]

41. IWC members admit to Japanese bribes

snip> In 2000, the Government of Dominica was thrown into crisis when the Minister of Environment, Agriculture and Fisheries, Atherton Martin, resigned in protest over the decision by Prime Minister Roosevelt Douglas to override a Cabinet decision to abstain on the IWC vote on creating a South Pacific whale sanctuary.
"They (Japan) announced that if they couldn't get Dominica to come along with them, they would have to place Dominican projects under review," Martin stated on BBC's Newsnight program. "If that is not extortion by the Japanese government, I don't know what it is. They are saying 'You either go with us or we pull the aid.'

snip> Martin, the former Environment and Fisheries Minister of Dominica, commented to the Observer that, "Small nations are enormously vulnerable to offers of aid. Through extortion with aid, Japan has been able to get many island nations to join the International Whaling Commission and vote its way."

snip> Later in 2001, the official newsletter of the Antigua and Barbuda government published an article entitled "Antigua Government Getting Returns." It cited a US $17 million fisheries grant from Japan as having come "as a direct result of its pro-whaling stance." Planning Minister Gaston Browne, when asked if Antigua's vote at the IWC was a factor in the grant, stated that, "If we were to antagonize them, I imagine that they would not be so anxious to assist us."

Link to more examples:

http://www.earthisland.org/immp/eco2004_issue4.html

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[berttheturk]

30. I don't know. If I intentionally pulled my car out in front of you while you were

driving down the road, the police would write ME the ticket. This is exactly what the sea-shepherd did. If anything, they should be cited for reckless conduct on the open seas.

[baldguy]

35. That's not what happened.

The people in the wrong here are the whalers.

[ZombieHorde]

84. The video seems to show SS pulling out in front of the other ship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anXPPTk-jY8&feature=related

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Arrowhead2k1]

20. I'm sorry, but this isn't a cut and dry right or left issue.

You either support extreme eco-activism or you don't.

Their cause may be just, but their methods are sometimes abhorrent, dangerous, and counter-productive.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zeemike]

23. you are ether for us or against us.

Where have I heard that before.
I mean you ether supported the radical activist sitting in at the lunch counter or not.
It seems we always have someone that hates anything different or activism in the name of justice.

[TLM]

70. Oh please....

Are you seriously trying to compare sitting at a lunch counter with ramming a ship at sea?

Were the racists at the segregated lunch counter lunch counter going to have their lives put in jeopardy by the black guy crashing into their stools?

Oh yeah and remember that time MLK broke into the racist governor's mansion under the cover of darkness to make a citizens arrest?

Calling it activism is not a blanket excuse for criminal behavior.

And trying to use the civil rights fight for some kind of cover is just embarrassing.

[zeemike]

85. Well not as embarrassing as the number of black people killed

for wanting to sit at that counter.
Or the many black churches that were bombed and burned in the 60s as a result of it.
The Japanese had no problem with hitting the green peace boat and were not at all worried about killing them. and apparently neither were you.
After all they were trying to stop them from doing something illegal and imoral....just like sitting at a lunch counter for whites only.
Sometimes you have to fight back in any way you can.

[mbperrin]

29. Activist methods often are. I would suggest that Adams, Washington,

and Jefferson were looked upon by their "civilized" betters in England as abhorrent, dangerous, and counter-productive.

After all, some of the Brits were trying to get the right to meet to beg for approval of colonial laws for those ungrateful bastards!

[TLM]

73. That excuse cuts both ways....

The whalers could argue they're activists too, fighting against unjust attempts by a group with no authority, to deny them their right to harvest a food supply for their people. Simply because some people from another country place more value on some sea life than other sea life.

Imagine if some group from Japan started ramming and harassing US tuna boats because they felt tuna was sentient or sacred and it was wrong to eat tuna? Their actions would negate the validity of any point their so called activism was trying to impart.

Which is exactly what these idiots in the sea shepheard are doing by acting like pirates.

[AngryAmish]

22. ahem

[Omaha Steve]

25. R for the whales

[baldguy]

26. The whalers need someone to go Capt Nemo on their ass.

The Sea Shepherd is too liberal.

[GliderGuider]

28. And off the the Greatest page you go, in honour of Watson and the SSCS

And of course in honour of Pete Bethune's brass bollocks.

[Odin2005]

31. KICK THIER ASSES!!!

[Xenotime]

38. Should make for a good episode of Whale Wars.

[hogwyld]

45. Go Sea Shepard!!!!!

Love to see them buy a tanker plane and drop a shitload of Butyric Acid on the whalers asses! It's all about economics, and if we can make whaling unprofitable, they'll eventually have to stop.

[Goldstein1984]

46. My wife and I support Sea Shepherd

We wear Sea Shepherd sweatshirts when out and about in Alaska. We enjoy the negative feedback we receive, because it's always so predictable, and always reinforces our beliefs--like being condemned by a teabagger. Conflict and controversy to raise public awareness is the tactic Sea Shepherd and supporters use.

Ironically, the negative consequences many posts in this thread promote are exactly the consequences Watson and his crew desire. They know harsh treatment is likely when they board a vessel--that's what they want. Civilized treatment would contradict the image they want to create for their adversaries. They know that Japan will accuse them of piracy--their financial supporters want that publicity, it's what they are paying for, or they'd be supporting Greenpeace. It's been interesting to watch the character of Watson's crews change over several years. They are becoming more dedicated; more willing to take risks to save whales; more aggressive. Financial support for Sea Shepherd grows as their tactics become more aggressive.

Sea Shepherd isn't too aggressive; they aren't aggressive enough. The Japanese lie about the commercial purpose of their whaling to exploit the research provision of a treaty banning commercial whaling. Sea Shepherd is acting within the law to enforce the spirit of the treaty. Enforcement of international treaties on the high seas isn't restricted to action by nations. Sea Shepherd is within the law when they interfere with commercial whaling hiding behind a lie; they're willing to let their tactics be judged by the court of world public opinion; they're gambling that the human species is more civilized than the anachronistic practices of a few subcultures suggests.

Sea Shepherd speaks and acts for those of us who view whales as more than just a food source with a population to be managed. When human culture is more evolved and no longer burdened with anachronistic and primitive cultural practices, we'll look back on the slaughter of sentient non-humans with shame.

Until then, Sea Shepherd has my family's financial support. The more aggressive they are, the more support they will receive.

My wife comes from a culture that still practices whaling. She has relatives who are whalers. She believes whaling is as anachronistic as cannibalism and placing unwanted newborn females children out in the cold to perish. Cultures must evolve to remain relevant.

Disagree all you want. These are the views of many who support Sea Shepherd. There are a lot of us--more every day.

[baldguy]

48. +1000

Why can't I rec an individual post?

[GliderGuider]

50. Your post just prompted me to buy a bunch of Sea Shepherd gear

I think I'll look quite stylish soon.

Thanks for the reminder about their sweatshirts.

[Goldstein1984]

51. The sweatshirts are spendy

But they're very practical in Alaska. They seem to attract more attention because of our age, and because one of us is Inuit (Eskimo).

Anti-whaling Inuit are relatively rare.

[GliderGuider]

55. I met Paul Watson at a function that also featured Sheila Watt-Cloutier

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheila_Watt-Cloutier

Watson's contempt for her acquiescence to her role as a Canadian government pawn over the seal hunt was vitriolic.

[flvegan]

53. How I wish I could Rec this response.

Well said.

[Merchant Marine]

63. Yeahno

Ramming ships in the whale sanctuary is counterproductive. The risk of loss of life and serious pollution is too great, in my opinion.

Sea Shepherd would have a better chance of claiming the moral high ground if they weren't also engaged in blatantly illegal acts. Rammings, boardings, operation of an unregistered, stateless vessel (the Bob Barker), the unauthorized flying of a nation's flag (The BB has been flying the Norwegian flag as some sort of clever ruse), all serious offenses if they had been committed by profession mariners held to international regulations. They're lucky that they skirt international maritime regulations by registering their ships as yachts, or not registering them at all. If they had to hold STCW licenses, maybe they'd know how to drive a ship worth a damn.

Speaking of international law, it'd be nice if the Sea Shepherds respected some more of them. The SOLAS Convention and the International ColRegs come to mind.

[Goldstein1984]

67. It's called activism and civil disobedience...

and it's supposed to offend the squeamish and upset the status quo.

Sea Shepherd is doing what people like me contribute money to support; they're being what people like me pay them to be; they're doing something less barbaric than the whaling they're trying to stop.

For people like me, who consider whales to be sentient social creatures who understand what is happening to them, not just another species placed on earth by a god for human exploitation, what Sea Shepherd is doing is necessary.

I've dived with whales and dolphins in the wild; when my wife and I go birding in Alaska coastal waters our boats are routinely escorted by dolphins; and those experiences make me ashamed of the violence done against these peaceful and intelligent animals by humans. In my opinion, Sea Shepherd should worry less about rules and more about doing whatever it takes to save whales and ruin the Japanese commercial whaling industry.

I support PETA for the same reason--they don't let things like good manners and social norms get in the way of their mission.

[Merchant Marine]

68. I've said it once, and I've said it again

It's all fun and games until somebody punctures a bunker tank, and thousands of gallons of heavy fuel oil or diesel flow into the ocean.

That or until somebody gets killed. Going to sea is dangerous enough as it is without activists deciding to play bumper boats.

Civil Disobedience ends when you're intentionally ramming and boarding ships on the high seas. That's piracy, and the Sea Shepherds are lucky that the Japanese have chosen to limit their use of force. If those were American fishermen down there Paul Watson would have gotten shot for real.

Understand I'm not trying to attack you or your beliefs, those are personal and none of my business. I take issue with the methods of the organization. The core of their message is sensible, but I have no sympathy for pirates.

[TLM]

71. Exactly.... sooner or later these morons will CAUSE whales to die....

...by contaminating their waters and food supply with a massive spills... or as someone ignorantly suggested, a tanker plane full of acid. ( yeah that's going to be real nice for the whales and other sea life as it ALL runs off the ship and into the surrounding water.)

This self serving crap hasn't helped save one whale. Because it's never been about the whales... it's about the drama and the attention and money. These morons are no more activists, than Sarah Palin is an activist. They're opportunists, and manipulative scam artists who play to a base of clueless rubes who can't wait to line up and fork over their money to fight the good fight.

They're sea baggers.

[MindPilot]

75. heh! "sea baggers" nice! n/t

[Goldstein1984]

77. No, it's war. The authorities are not doing their job. The system

is failing. Vigilantes are stepping in to do what is necessary when governments fail. It's happened before. That's how it should be.

Condemnation from those comfortable with how things are is just part of the process.

I'm amused about the concerns that the actions of Sea Shepherd might result in killing whales, while the people they are trying to stop are, in fact, killing whales. I'll leave others to come up with comparable situations in life where something bad happens because those who would stop it fail to act out of fear that something bad will happen.

Piracy?...Terrorism?...Irresponsible?...Dangerous?...

Their purpose is to interfere with Japanese commercial whaling, reduce its profitability, and keep public attention on the barbaric practice. They are doing that. I call that Effective. My money is well spent.

I know this post isn't going to change any minds. Those minds are already made up. But this thread does remind me I need to send more money to Sea Shepherd.

[Merchant Marine]

80. Vigilantism is never justified.

And all the objectives you listed could be done without deliberate and dangerous rammings. The Bob Barker's shell plating was fractured in the last collision, one more bump is all that's needed to bust that wide open. Small ships like that go down fast. Even a big ship can capsize in a matter of seconds if its stability is compromised enough. Will you cheer when people are dying?

The SSCS is engaging in violent acts of piracy, not protest.

[Goldstein1984]

We're going to have to agree that we disagree

Vigilantism is often justified. Review the history of the silver mining towns in Nevada. Then add the Antarctic Whale Wars to the same list.

"Piracy"..."Vigilantism"..."Terrorism"... SSCS is doing what needs to be done, and what millions of people like me want them to do. If they were officially declared a terrorist organization tomorrow, I'd still support them by whatever means I could find.

This isn't a debate about the law or about tactics, it's a disagreement about the value and rights of sentient creatures with whom we share the planet. We see exactly the same events, and we reach different conclusions, based solely on our different views in regards to the value of whales.

My only complaint about SSCS is that they are not aggressive enough.

[Merchant Marine]

86. Here's some more international law

Article 97, Part 9 on the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea

"Article97

Penal jurisdiction in matters of collision or any other incident of navigation

1. In the event of a collision or any other incident of navigation concerning a ship on the high seas, involving the penal or disciplinary responsibility of the master or of any other person in the service of the ship, no penal or disciplinary proceedings may be instituted against such person except before the judicial or administrative authorities either of the flag State or of the State of which such person is a national.

2. In disciplinary matters, the State which has issued a master's certificate or a certificate of competence or licence shall alone be competent, after due legal process, to pronounce the withdrawal of such certificates, even if the holder is not a national of the State which issued them.

3. No arrest or detention of the ship, even as a measure of investigation, shall be ordered by any authorities other than those of the flag State."

Too bad Mr. Bethune didn't bother to read this. He'd of saved himself several months in a locked stateroom.

[Goldstein1984]

82. We're going to have to agree that we disagree

Vigilantism is often justified. Review the history of the silver mining towns in Nevada. Then add the Antarctic Whale Wars to the same list.

"Piracy"..."Vigilantism"..."Terrorism"... SSCS is doing what needs to be done, and what millions of people like me want them to do. If they were officially declared a terrorist organization tomorrow, I'd still support them by whatever means I could find.

This isn't a debate about the law or about tactics, it's a disagreement about the value and rights of sentient creatures with whom we share the planet. We see exactly the same events, and we reach different conclusions, based solely on our different views in regards to the value of whales.

My only complaint about SSCS is that they are not aggressive enough.

[Seedersandleechers]

81. Thank You

For your post.

[and-justice-for-all]

54. GOOD! nt

[boppers]

61. PETA of the seas.

If nothing else, the activism industry gets a boost in publicity and donations.

[Merchant Marine]

64. A citizen's arrest?

Seriously? That's shaky enough on land, but they're going to try it on the high seas? Is Mr. Bethune aware that a ship is considered part of the state it is flagged under? He's not a citizen of Japan.

Hope he enjoys a locked stateroom, bread and water, and the cost of his passage, because that's all the law of the sea provides for stowaways.

[petronius]

65. Could be a good strategy - if enough SS folks climb aboard Japanese ships

and get locked up, then perhaps the Japanese will run out of food and water and need to go home early. Of course, they'd have to assume that they wouldn't end up in a Japanese jail once they got there...

:)

[TLM]

72. Why just whales?

I notice whales are the cause d'jour for a lot of this trendy coffee shop trust fund hippie set. You know, the white kid who grew up in the suburbs, but has dreads and a rasta cap... who rants about the evils of corporate America on his new I-phone while breaking in his new pre-faded factory torn jeans and his new sea shepherd t-shirt.

But what about all the rest of the sea life we consume? What about the tuna or the salmon? Are they any less alive? Where is the boatload of jackasses ramming into the crab fishing boats, to save the lowly crab from it's torturous journey to your dinner table? Cuttlefish are extremely intelligent, having a brain to body mass, very close to humans, and elaborate communication systems. Yet whens the last sea shepherd crew member that cried over the senseless evil calamari harvest?

Just as on land, these phony activists only give a crap about the popular creatures, the cute and cuddly creatures.... you'll never see one of these brats chain themselves to an escargot cannery or the gates of an ostrich farm. Because that's not cool and trendy activism and it won't sell bumper stickers and sweatshirts.

It's all a giant pile of self serving BS. Both on the part of those perpetrating the scam, and those who sooth their own conscience by throwing a few bucks at the biggest noise maker and telling themselves they're making a difference.

I hate seeing whales get killed, but I love seeing these bogus trust fund hippie frauds fail... their ineffectual posturing on display for all to see.

[Dappleganger]

76. All good points.

And where are the activists going to jail for poor people and the middle class? I wanna t-shirt, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

[WriteDown]

78. When's the last time you saw people fighting for snakes or lizards?

People tend to only want to save the "cute" animals.

[Number9Dream]

90. Hateful Stereotyping

So... anyone who objects to the slaughter of marine mammals is a "bogus trust fund hippie fraud". That is hateful stereotyping of the worst kind. Everyone who supports a cause you don't fits into your neat little "dreads and rasta cap brats" stereotype. I'm sure widely respected naturalists like Dr. Roger Payne, and Terri Irwin, wouldn't appreciate being called, "bogus trust fund hippie frauds". Bet if someone here stereotyped Japanese whalers, you'd scream foul.

A great many people recognize the many differences between marine mammals and fish. They breathe air, give live birth, complex communication... look it up. Is it so hard to understand why humans can relate more to a whale than to a crab or a fluke? Relate more to a dog than to a salamander? Does it have to be one extreme or the other? Total vegan or slaughter everything? Human causes only? If you're showing compassion for animals, that means you don't care about humans? These things are not mutually exclusive.

Then you state, "I hate seeing whales get killed, BUT I love seeing these bogus trust fund hippie frauds fail". So, a mother whale watching her calf get hit with a harpoon is worth your enjoyment from "hippie frauds failing". We sure have different priorities.

[Duppers]

93. Thanks for your voice of reason.

I was going to post to this jerk, but just decided just to put him on ignore. Sounds as if he has some real personal issues to deal with. I bet he just hates college grads too.

Compassion for animals = spoiled brats. Geeesh!

There are some people on this thread that seem as if they'd be more comfortable over at freeperville. Reallllly sensitive, compassionate folks, they are.

[GliderGuider]

91. It's not just whales

For instance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Butterfly_Hill

Julia Butterfly Hill (born February 18, 1974) is an American activist and environmentalist. Hill is best known for living in a 180-foot (55 m)-tall, roughly 1500-year-old California Redwood tree (age based on first-hand ring count of a slightly smaller neighboring ancient redwood that had been cut down) for 738 days between December 10, 1997 to December 18, 1999. Hill lived in the tree, affectionately known as "Luna," to prevent loggers of the Pacific Lumber Company from cutting it down.

Direct action has a long history in both the ecological, peace and social justice movements, across the western world.

The reasons they don't protest escargot or ostrich production is because those species aren't endangered yet. Whales and old-growth forests are.

Whenever corporations flagrantly disregard the intention of the law and legal remedies are ineffective, we can expect direct action to become a possibility. If corporations took on the ethical responsibilities of personhood instead of just the economic and legal rights of personhood, there would be much less need for ALF, PETA, EarthFirst! SSCS, CND, Friends of the Earth etc.

You may not like it, but direct action is here to stay. Until the need no longer exists, I support it.

[U4ikLefty]

94. Thank you for your courageous postion amonst these haters.

It made my heart feel good.

[Gecko6400]

74. There is a term for this.

Piracy.

[petronius]

87. Probably closer to 'trespassing' or 'stowing away' than piracy

Now if he clubbed down the captain, locked the crew below decks, and ran away with the ship - that would be piracy...

Welcome to DU! :hi: