Threats to seize SA farms

[dArKeR]

Jason Lloyd

Kirkwood - "We will not vote on April 14, but we will take farms and chase away white farmers like dogs."

The Landless People's Movement (LPM) confirmed over the weekend that the organisation was still planning to violently take over farms on election day.

Mangaliso Kubheko, national organiser of the LPM, said on Saturday that the organisation was "sick and tired" of government's delays in completing land claims.

Khubeka did not want to say which areas the LPM would target.

"No, we will not say where we will hit. It could mess up our plans because then police will know how to stop us."

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1498097,00.html

[aquart]

1. Not good.

[beanball]

2. Land reform

if the people can prove that the land was stolen from their ancestors there should be some type of payment or granting of land,stealing land is the same as murder their is no time limit on righting a wrong.

[tkmorris]

3. On a completely emotional level

I agree with you. It is completely impractical though.

Every single acre of inhabited land on this planet has been stolen from someone at some time or another. Most areas in Europe, East Asia, and northern Africa have transferred hands by force many dozens of times. So whose are they? Which interested party gets to claim original ownership and the right to the land or compensation?

No, it's impossible. Although clearly, if someone stole your land last week, you have just cause to complain. The issue is where to draw the line. And frankly, I have no answer to that. What was done to Native Americans pisses me right off and I will support any claim they bring. The issue of slave reparations seems more complex to me and I have no idea what to do with it. It seems to me Palestinians have a reasonable complaint versus Israel. How far back do you go though? Is it an issue solely of time passed or are there other factors? Beats the hell outta me.

[AP]

4. You can't reward colonialism though. Furthermore, we should apply the law

to SA'ns and others the same way we'd expect it applied to us.

Do you think that you can get good chain in title to land which you've murdered to get, or that someone has murdered to get?

Some countries require that chains in title be clear back 30 or 50 years. People have been murdering to get land in Africa as recently as 40 years ago, it if there were a law that extended that back farther, would that really be outrageous? There's no statute of limitation on murder, and if you were buying land from someone who got it through murder and genocide, do you REALLY think that that title would be free and clear of defects?

Be honest.

If I bought a farm from somone and there was genocide in the chain of title at any time in the previous 100 years, I HONESTLY would not expect to have good chain of title. If I did buy that land, I would fully expect that someday I might have to give up that title.

[struggle4progress]

5. This issue isn't going away

The political compromises involved in abolishing apartheid did not address the structural inequities involved and the way those inequities arose. Apartheid's Bantustan scheme involved uprooting old communities by force (ie go in with machine guns, tell folks to wrap up whatever they want in a blanket, and get out the house). This is not ancient history. It went on almost until the apartheid system collapsed. I agree that a legal solution is preferable, but I think it will meet with some resistence from the "landowners" who might argue that promises made for the new constitution are being broken.

[kysrsoze]

6. That was one of the most sensible posts I've seen so far

How do you right what has been so wrong? You have to give something. This is why I feel affirmative action is a must. There has to be a way to bring prosperity to everyone, but you can't just give away the keys. As unfair as it is, things don't run that way and they shouldn't. There has to be some structure in society and you can't just oust everyone who is there, many who had nothing personal to do with it, other than being related to someone. That would just revolt in mass bloodletting. B ut something has to be done.

The scariest thing I see about S. Africa is how difficult it is to get medicine for HIV/AIDS. Women get it for themselves, then give it to their children because they cannot get it for them. Bush et al waltzed through these places for photo ops and promised $15B, but all they got was a bunch of preaching about abstinence. What a bunch of sick fucks.

Africa is messed up and needs some serious help. They can't even get clean water in many spots. Hell, even if they have to let us drill, we should be in there doing something to improve these nations. As bad as it sounds, it's obvious we don't do a whole lot for people unless it financially benefits us. As long as we don't try to rape them for what we get out of it, provide good guidance on building a strong country and pay a fair price (Capitalism at its best), I think it's good.

However, our only idea is to try and topple governments.