EXCLUSIVE: Photos of the Northwest Airlines Bomb

[kpete]

Source: ABC News

EXCLUSIVE: Photos of the Northwest Airlines Bomb
Accused Bomber Abdulmutallab's Underwear, Explosive Packet and Detonator

A singed pair of underwear with a packet of powder sewn into the crotch, seen in government photos obtained exclusively by ABC News, is all that remains of al Qaeda's attempt to down an American passenger plane over Detroit.

As seen in these photos, the alleged bomb consisted of a packet of powder sewn into the briefs of Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, a 23-year-old Nigerian. Al Qaeda took credit Monday for the attempted bombing, boasted of its ability to overcome U.S. intelligence and airport security, and promised new attacks.

The first photo, to the left, shows the slightly charred and singed underpants with the bomb packet still in place. All photos include a ruler to provide scale.



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/northwest-airlines-bomb-photos/story?id=9436297

[notadmblnd]

1. Looks like just enough to blow the terrorist a new asshole

I don't see how that much of anything could blow up a plane. Does anyone know what the powder was yet?

on edit: read the story, something called PETN, never heard of before. Anyone know about this substance?

Ah well guess there's one terrorist who isn't going to be able to perform for those 72 young virgins:shrug:

[WriteDown]

9. You can't be serious?

How much explosive do you really think is needed?

[Pavulon]

30. I know enough

to tell you that military and commercial explosives are very effective and it does not take much to do massive damage. Explosives do work with overpressure.

[Thor_MN]

143. Makes me wonder if planes could be retrofitted with burst disks

If panels could be designed that would safely blow out in an overpressure situation. Controlling the the overpressure in a manner that would not destroy the structural integrity of the plane. Obviously, the plane would depressurize, but having a blown out eardrum is preferable to spending a couple minutes screaming as you free fall amid plane debris...

[jmowreader]

34. PETN is good stuff, if a little unstable

The press has been calling it "similar to nitroglycerin" which is pretty accurate--there's a heart pill called Cartrax which contains PETN.

PETN is a very fast-burning explosive. It's mostly found in detonating cord, but it's also used in "composition" explosives. The infamous Czech explosive Semtex is made from it.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

46. I didn't know it until of late that det cord burns/explodes at 7,777

meters per second. I find that a tad unbelievable.

[Big_Mike]

65. The number is approximately correct. Generally look for

between 7,000 - 8,000 m/s (23,000-26,000 fps) depending upon exact explosive composition, density of explosive per meter, as well as other factors.

We used to cut softwood trees simply by wrapping loops of det cord around the bole of the tree. Palms would only take a couple wraps, pine trees between 10-12, depending upon thickness, and narrow oak would take lots (never tried on thick oak - it would be a waste of det cord. In that case, dynamite or TNT would be the choice.)

PETN burns so fast, that you could lay one strand from Los Angeles and New York, it would take between 8 and 9 minutes to travel from one end to the other.

UFA (the terrorist, as I will NOT attempt to spell his name correctly) and his handlers chose PETN because it is very concentrated; however, explosives that burn faster than about 600 fps are cutting charges, in that they detonate in a plane of force and shear through material that comes in contact with the plane. Slower charges burst more than cut, and if his aim was to blow out the wall of the aircraft, his choice of material was not very good.

But given his material and his choice of seat, cutting vertically would be preferred. Since he was sitting on his "charge" the path of least resistance would have been downward from his seat. Since he was in the window seat, had the charge detonated as desired, there is a fair chance that he could have gotten the fuel tanks or fuel lines, as they are located in that vicinity of the aircraft. I've heard that he was trying to sever a wing root, but that is structurally one of the strongest points on the aircraft, so this is not likely.

This is the second attempt using explosives with PETN; the first, of course, was Richard Reed aka the "Shoe Bomber" of 2002. The aviation authorities need to do better at locating explosives. Dogs are the best bet, but there aren't nearly enough to use in screening. I had one alert one time on a (very) old satchel charge sack. There had been no explosives in it for at least 3 years, but they still picked it up. More effective measures need to be implemented, but I have no idea what would work.

[Hekate]

82. Thank you, Big Mike, that's very informative. Would it have worked if he'd slapped it on the wall...

... next to his seat?

Hekate

[Big_Mike]

141. If he found a way to brace it or affix it to the cabin wall

it would likely have punched a hole through. The problem again is the "path of least resistance" in that there is nothing to force the explosive to act against the wall of the aircraft. His leg would move away too quickly, and nothing else would be readily available to use as a brace.

What is amazing is that this man is a trained engineer, yet is so stupid as to try to destroy the aircraft in this manner. With the proper experience levels, a person can walk out of any supermarket or Rite-Aid with the necessary components to make a bomb. Thank goodness or the deity of your choice that he and the terrorists who trained him were so inept. There are so very many methods that would have led to this having worked properly, we were unbelievably lucky that it failed as it did.

Please excuse the lack of full answer to your question in this post. Trying to reply without providing information that could lead to someone successfully trying this is difficult, and so I severely limit what I write. I had described how and why I believed that his method failed, but to list those causes/effects would only provide a critique that would allow the next s***head to be successful, so I deleted almost all of what I had written.

[Hekate]

144. I very much appreciate you holding back info!! What I find strange...

... is that this is a branch of the same bunch that cleverly invented IEDs, which are devastating. I know, an IED wouldn't make it onto a plane, but you get the idea.

I remember that the guys who hung out in Canada and tried to carry out a Millennium Bomb plot for the LA Airport also found what they needed at supermarkets and drugstores. And of course our own white Christian terrorist McVeigh found his among farming supplies...

It certainly gives me pause for thought that after 9-11 we were given to understand that the terrorists were mostly primitives who knew nothing but the Koran, virtual illiterates of the modern world. I remember in trying to understand what the hell had just happened to us, trying to fit that into a picture. It becomes clearer all the time that the leaders are very sophisticated, and good at recruiting lonely and disaffected university youths in Europe. To this day when American op ed writers, tv talking heads, and cartoonists want to portray Osama Bin Ladin they have a lazy shortcut that shows the man in a cave, reduced to nothing. How foolish our leaders would be if they believed that themselves.

Hekate

[Big_Mike]

147. Well, it is easy for someone who is not in the "trade" to think

that IEDs were invented by the opposition. However, they have had numerous names over the years, and I was interested in portions of that and studied what I could. There have been many names for these types of devices over the years, and the official nomenclature shifts from time to time. The use of the term Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs) has come about due to the publicity of these being used in Iraq and now Afganistan. But 25-30 years ago, when I was a young 'un in uniform, I started working with these types of explosives. I was interested in the use of explosives in mechanical ambushes (mechanical in that there are few or no soldiers present to activate the device as it is radio or trip-wire initiated). The applications are limited only by the imagination and the practical limits of what one person or a small team can install.

As far as McVeigh, farmers have been using ANFO for decades, and blasting stones and stumps for now almost 200 years. Fortunately, McVeigh did a poor job in his design and implementation. Oklahoma City could have been MUCH worse. Books like "The Anarchist's Cookbook" have been around since the 60s, and anyone who can read a recipe and create an edible dinner could work from those documents to create destruction.

As far as the terrorists are concerned, I remember reading of a physicist whose family was killed by an Israeli retaliation bombing. He had been apolitical, but afterwards was firmly in the Fatah camp. It is a gross exaggeration of our media to state that the people involved are in the stone age simply due to their living conditions. By that measure, our forces around the world who dig holes in the ground to live and fight are no better than hunter/gatherers.

While the politicians may think that these folks are unsophisticated, believe me that is not the fact within the military. They know whom they are facing and just how quickly both sides adjust to ever changing conditions. After eight years, Darwin has been hard at work, and the stupid from both sides have long since been eradicated. The inexperienced may or may not survive to gain the requisite experience, but the stupid have definitely passed on.

[hlthe2b]

54. Supposedly second only to dynamite in explosive power...

at least that's what the "expert" on NPR said.

[jmowreader]

131. Then the "expert" isn't much of an expert

Explosives are compared by Relative Effectiveness factor--the explosive power of the product compared to TNT.

Dynamite has an R.E. factor of 0.92. TNT is rated as 1. PETN is rated at 1.66. It's second to HMX at 1.7. (Ammonium nitrate and fuel oil has an R.E. of 0.80. If you want to get a big boom with ANFO, you just make the hole bigger--it's so fucking cheap you can afford to use dump truck loads of it.)

[bigworld]

2. Here's the correct link

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/northwest-airlines-bomb-photos/story?id=9436297

[elleng]

48. RICHARD CLARKE:

Yemen is the new Afghanistan. It is the new sanctuary, the new al Qaeda base where people from around the world, who want to be trained are sent. No longer to Afghanistan, but to Yemen.a

In its statement today, the al Qaeda group said the attempt to bring down the jet was retaliation for U.S. air strikes in Yemen.

[katkat]

59. Christ

Richard Clarke, neocon, there's no enemy of Israel he wouldn't like to see the US are war with. No matter how many US lives and billions of dollars it costs us, or how much ruinous debt it puts the US in.

Isn't it about time Israel took care of its own security? It's a disgrace that we're helping that ethnic cleansing shame of a country.

[elleng]

61. I think you're confusing Mr. Clarke with someone else.

He's NOTHING like a neocon.

[Hekate]

83. Richard Clarke was the guy who tried to prevent 9-11 and got shut down by the Bushies...

He's the one who "ran around with his hair on fire" trying to make the idiot Bushites pay attention to the information that the Clinton admin left behind in such abundance.

Hekate

[aquart]

66. Great. Let's leave Afghanistan and crowd into Yemen.

This reminds me of my sister's cat Beast. Sara had bought over 20 little furry fake mice for her multiple cats, but every time she threw one to the cats, Beast leapt up and caught it. He was tucking them under things and then running back to catch the next, sometimes with one still in his mouth, finally, by stepping up her speed, she forced Beast to grab the next without letting go of the last till he finally had three mice in his mouth and she threw a fourth...

America is about to have three mice in its mouth. Isn't it time we let go of a few so the other cats can have a chance to play with them?

[grahamhgreen]

75. The bomber bought his tix BEFORE The airstrike. nt

[MisterP]

3. wasn't it a "liquid explosive" just this morning? or is this another mise en abyme like the

Brazilian they executed in the Underground in 2005?

[foxfeet]

4. Gives "skid marks" a whole new meaning.

[marmar]

5. Will the silliness never end?

Did they get a one-on-one interview with the bomb?

[Bobbieo]

27. The 'silliness' will end when people quit flying!!!!

[tekisui]

6. That doesn't look scary at all. Had it 'detonated',

what could it have done?

[WriteDown]

10. Sent the entire plane crashing to Earth. nt

[BootinUp]

136. Its amazing that you even have to post that.

I am more frequently questioning the average intelligence around here.

[OttavaKarhu]

17. "Doesn't look scary"?

Can only scary-looking things kill? Ever seen a sphere of enriched uranium? Shiniest, pleasantest thing you ever saw. A vial of Ebola? Practically invisible. What do you think explosives look like? Big round black things with fizzy fuses marked BOMB and carried by moustachioed guys in stripey shirts?

[tekisui]

22. I doesn't look like a very well made bomb.

It looks like my 7 year old niece sewed it together. What detonation is needed for it to actually down a plane? We know the shoe-bomber's design was shit, as it this one. The evidence is id didn't work. Sorry, I am not scared by these idiot wannabes. Certainly not enough to support wars in response.

[TheModernTerrorist]

80. well...

I'm sure these guys didn't get degrees in Packaging or Marketing. All they have to do is make a bomb that goes "boom".

Maybe they should go get those degrees :-)

[tekisui]

85. Yeah, well, they couldn't get the boom either.

He may have had some dangerous stuff, but clearly didn't have the training to use it.

[varelse]

58. you, sir

made me laugh out loud. Thanks - I needed that :)

[Divine Discontent]

81. ha!! they think all bombs have to look like this -

[Pavulon]

21. created an overpressure , real explosives dont have fire like movies

that overpresssure could combined with a pressurized cabin cause the airframe to fail. a blasting cap alone can cause massive injury.

[tekisui]

26. So the bomb, if detonated, would cause the plane to fall

due to changes in pressurization? I am genuinely asking.

[Pavulon]

35. Explosions in a confined space

do damage with overpressure. An over pressure in an already pressurized cabin, could cause the hull to rupture. This could cause a situation like the one with a jet in route to hawaii where the airplane was not destroyed, cabin decompresses and unsecured people are blown out. It could cause a pan am type failure where the hull becomes weak enough to break apart. Loss of control due to damage to mechanical or electrical systems is possible. I generally deal with failure scenarios in aircraft engines. Engines are designed to contain rotor and stator parts as well as heat in the event of fire.

[tekisui]

47. Interesting.

So, the amount he had was sufficient to bring the plane down. And, this would be at least the second time this attempt was tried, the shoe-bomber being the other. Thank god they can't figure out how to light their packages. It does seem this one got a little closer than the shoe guy.

[marshall]

132. I guess they used up all the smart people with 9/11

The ones since then have been far from competent. Thank goodness!

[AtheistCrusader]

77. Well, when the FBI tested the 'shoe bomber's' bomb

sitting on a table, it made an impressive bang, and wrecked the table pretty good, but didn't seem all that threatening.

Then they put it in a decommissioned aircraft that MIT and other groups have been testing materials on to help set TSA policy on what materials you can bring on a plane, and in what quantity.

They put the same sized bomb on the floor about where his foot would be, and then pressurized the aircraft as it would be at 10,000 feet and higher. It cut the plane in half. These aircraft simply aren't designed to take that kind of sudden overpressurization. Even sudden DE-compression can cause structural failures.

I would not want to be in a plane with that crotch-bomb at 9,000 feet or higher. Techncially, most planes are pressurized on the tarmac, so frankly, I wouldn't want to be in that plane at all. Best case scenario, you'd probably lose your hearing. Probably forever.

[tabasco]

138. Flunked chemistry, eh?

[GreenStormCloud]

7. That is enough to blow a hole in the side of an airliner.

From the story: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/northwest-airlines-bomb-photos/story?id=9436297

It is a six-inch long packet of the high explosive chemical called PETN, less than a half cup in volume, weighing about 80 grams.

A government test with 50 grams of PETN blew a hole in the side of an airliner. That was the amount in the bomb carried by the so-called shoe bomber Richard Reid over Christmas 2001.

The underpants bomb would have been one and a half times as powerful.


Thanks to poster #2 for the link.

It could depend upon where he sat in the plane. Any window seat would likely be enough.

So now are we going to have to be strip searched?

[OttavaKarhu]

16. Jockey Jihadi was seated over the wing/fuel tanks.

GSC is correct--it would have taken the plane down. And in the closing minutes of a flight, over a large and thickly populated area...most likely of poor people, since they tend to live the closet to airports in the old Rust Belt cities. (Speaking from experience there.)

I have to wonder why, when these suicide attacks fail, we don't save ourselves a lot of time, money, and trouble and just give the perps what they want: a quick ticket to Paradise.

The Alex Jonesians are already blaming the US for the attack ("False flag!" "CIA!" "FBI!") and letting radical Islam off the hook entirely.

[8 track mind]

33. Alex Jones

Yep the shortwave bands are active tonight, no joke.

[alfredo]

74. The Detroit Airport is well out of the city.

[tekisui]

18. Were tests based on the same design?

Did the government tests test it in the same form and under the same conditions?

[OttavaKarhu]

20. Oh of course not.

At least not in any set of empirical conditions that would change the mind of someone determined to believe what they believe because they believe it.

[tekisui]

25. I'm just asking questions. How was the government test conducted?

Did it involve trying to light a condom full of the powder form in one's crotch?

[Pavulon]

24. Yep, with the last fucknut they tested the shoe charge

and determined it capable of destroying the airplane.

[tekisui]

28. Well, we have dodged two bullets then.

Lucky for us, would-be suicide bombers are idiots.

[goclark]

37. For sure window seats will be going to people

that fit a certain safe profile.

[bbinacan]

49. Good n/t.

[jmowreader]

38. A hole in the side of the plane wouldn't necessarily have taken it down

I seem to recall an Aloha Airlines flight that got a big hole in the side of it at a much higher altitude than this plane was, and it landed.

[CreekDog]

60. But it was a miracle that it landed

:shrug:

[Hekate]

84. Several stewardesses and passengers were blown out at high altitude from the Aloha flight...

Needless to say they did not survive the experience.

Hekate

[marshall]

134. One flight attendant was blown out of the plane

The other two were held down by people in their seats. Certainly anyone who didn't have their belts fastened would have gone flying. As it was there was lots of ear drum damage, flying debris hitting people, and severe wind burn.

That happened because of fatigue on the metal from constant take offs and landings for short inter island flights. It aged the plane much faster than longer flights would have done.

[Hekate]

135. Thanks for the correction. Point is, a sudden blowout at high altitude is very dangerous...

... which for some mysterious reason seems to escape a few people in this thread.

Just reading about that accident made me nauseous and cold with an atavistic fear of falling from great heights.

Hekate

[dixiegrrrrl]

51. Here is video of what much less PETN can do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZENvUVG6TE

[santamargarita]

8. First our shoes and now our underwear...

I'm getting a Bus Schedule.

[WriteDown]

11. The knickerbomber. nt

[Th1onein]

70. Oh my god.

This beats it all. I'm sorry, but I can't help but laugh when I see those singed undies. I KNOW there was enough explosive to do some real harm, but just to look at 'em makes me giggle uncontrollably.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

12. so what was the flame all about? A white firecracker?

PETN has to be detonated

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126195987401406861.html?mod=article-outset-box

[Pavulon]

31. failed cap?

without posting stuff that does not need to be posted a flame ignited fused blasting cap is not all that common any more. Could be he had an older one that did not detonate.

[notadmblnd]

40. how would a syringe of acid set it off?

[Pavulon]

44. There are chemicals that can become unstable

when mixed with others or when exposed to air. I will not post IED instructions, but there is plenty of information on how to make explosives detonate without blasting caps.

[The abyss]

56. syringe of acid or base would not set off PETN

Explosive compounds don't work that way.

PETN requires a shock wave that can only be provided by an initiator explosive.

Acids & Bases will provide heat if mixed with organic material.

No shock wave.

PETN is not heat sensitive.

Look up "detonation velocity"

Look up "deflagration velocity"

[SergeStorms]

79. Is this PETN the same as "Tannerite"?

Because you can do just about anything to Tannerite and it won't explode. It's legal to buy and possess (at least the last time I knew) because it's a binary explosive. It takes a high powered shock wave to set it off. Something like a high powered rifle slug. A .22 caliber wouldn't phase it. It has to be a .306 or higher to create enough of a shock wave to detonate it. My brother had some of that stuff that he bought legally on the internet. It does pack a hell of a wallop, but it's very stable, until the correct shock wave is provided to detonate it anyway. :shrug:

[The abyss]

36. Exactly!

PETN is the explosive compound used most commonly in Primer cord or Det Cord.

These explosive cords are used normally to create an initiating wave in less sensitive but even higher velocity explosives such as C compounds or TNT.

PETN itself requires a vigorous and sudden shock to detonate. A primary: blasting cap, detonator something containing a compound like mercury fulminate or lead azide.

In other words you ain’t going to set off PETN by applying heat from a match or a lighter or any other flame source. What you get is what you see, scorched panties.

And no, an acid reaction isn’t going to do anything but break down the compound; PETN is not re-active to acids. It is a very stable compound handled the world over by people with less intelligence than your average garden gnome.

He, our stellar suspect, needed a blasting cap. Something he seems to have been lacking.

Rather reminds me of our crazed shoe bomber. He tried, supposedly, to light off Det cord leading into a tennis shoe, supposedly, packed with the dreaded C4.

Holding a burning match/lighter whatever to primer cord or Det cord will simply provide you with a thrilling puddle of goo.

[Pavulon]

42. There are lots of ways to fire a charge

a boost does not have to come from a cap. Although that is the preferred method. Was it determined that he did not have a cap or a compound that can be used as a cap?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZENvUVG6TE

[The abyss]

52. An initiating boost can be created in many ways.

Detonators used in aerial bombs during the second world war normally contained a trifecta of compounds in order to burst the charge: primer, boost, and gain.

Years ago “lacing” was a fairly common practice with straight weight dynamites. However you can’t straight lace PETN, not enough mass. Besides which PETN is not heat sensitive

However, I digress…

The common knowledge of commercial and military demolition people the world over appears to be lacking in these individuals.

Where oh where do they manage to find such?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

64. if it happened at all?

[The abyss]

67. Oh – it happed all right.

[mstinamotorcity]

145. I don't know much about PETN

But since i have been reading all the post i think i got some valuable information that brings me to a question. If this PETN needed a cap to make the charge and you couldn't mix it with another chemical to ignite it then could the reports of this explosive being PETN be false. Because according to witnesses on the plane his clothes and seat were on fire after they heard a popping noise. I mean it won't be the first time we were told a lie. Could he have used something else to generate a heat source to cause flame when mixed.Still learning about this one.

[winyanstaz]

68. yup.....

I am still waiting for the final story as it seems to be changing a lot.
What is amazing to me is how every time we want to start a war...that country is sitting on oil and they are stupid enough to try to attack us with some bomb attempt or something right when we start thinking about war with them. Like they are just begging us to go invade them or something. Amazing.

[Goldstein1984]

13. Am I wrong...

or was this guy wearing panties?

I'm guessing that he couldn't add the oxidizer fast enough to detonate the 80 gm of explosive all at once. He probably got a series of smaller detonations and he was in too much pain to continue injecting the oxidizer.

He's lucky Bush/Cheney is gone. This would have given them a great idea for another form of torture: "Interrogation by progressive testicular detonation"

Just guessing.

[El Supremo]

14. I can see the future of airline security now. >>

[flamingdem]

15. OMG now we'll have to take off our undies for inspection too! nt

[OttavaKarhu]

19. Jump the meme: wear a Utilikilt, regimental style.

Speaking from experience.

[boppers]

62. I wear kilts all the time through security, and approve of this message.

http://www.utilikilts.com/

In case you're wondering, the mocker has the 2nd least amount of metal on it.

[bfarq]

39. We'll all have to wear kilts

[L0oniX]

23. That is certainly not the way to get a blow job.

[Techn0Girl]

29. Why is this underwear not burnt and charred???

The reports were that he sufferred extensive burns to his groin anf that there were flames.

Why are THESE , apparently ladies panties, not burnt or otherwise soiled?

[Pavulon]

32. No nuts may have tried to set off an unstable compound

by burning it. Maybe he lit his clothes, maybe he did not get the blasting cap in his cock bomb. i was hoping to see little bits of his charred sack.

[Paladin]

41. Found Your Own Level Of Entertainment, Have You? (n/t)

[Pavulon]

45. I appreciate the irony

involved when a guy tries to kill 250+ people and just fucks himself up in the process. I would have been entertained by a blasting cap firing between his balls.

[Paladin]

139. Better Luck Next Time. Try To Bear Up Under The Disappointment....(n/t)

[wordpix]

140. thinking the same thing--charred organs would have been a nice touch

[Snarkoleptic]

43. He won't have the balls to try that again...

[Th1onein]

71. Hahahaha!

eom

[Politicub]

50. "Fire crotch" took on a whole new meaning this Xmas

Was the would be bomber wearing silky ecru panties or is that just a dirty pair of drawers?

[NJCher]

73. how did he have the guts to do this?

Just how nuts do you have to be to nuzzle explosives next to your nuts?

And as noted by you and other posters upthread, these are not boxers or briefs, these are PANTIES.

For the first time, I am starting to think this stuff is genuinely made up by a real Islamic terrorist. No CIA guy has the creativity to think this up.


Cher

[Prometheus Bound]

53. Gotta be from "The Onion".

[niyad]

55. is it just my sick and twisted imagination--or does that image look vaguely like an angel?

[Robb]

57. Heh. I saw an eagle.

I think there's a psychology dissertation in here somewhere. :D

[undeterred]

69. I thought I saw the Virgin Mary.

[Sultana]

63. Gawd, that's some ugly underwear

:puke:

[denem]

72. Great Balls of Fire

nt.

[JCMach1]

76. Time to DEMAND the bomb material sniffing machines at airports

:wtf: have they been doing all of these years?

[Ter]

78. Looks like it's just enough to blow his penis off!

:D

[Christa]

86. 'There are many more like me': Jet bomber's chilling warning as MI5 hunt terror cell behind failed a

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1238802/The-boy-grew-bomber-Flight-chaos-investigators-check

The would-be bomber accused of trying to blow up a flight to the U.S. on Christmas Day has declared there are 'many more like me' who are ready to strike.

Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, who has been charged with the attempting bombing of the Amsterdam-Detroit flight, warned FBI agents there are other terrorists waiting in Yemen, according to ABC News in the U.S.

His claims bolster fears of a link to a wider terrorist cell operating out of the Arabian country.

U.S. officials, who today released the first picture of Abdulmutallab since his arrest, say he told them he was trained on how to detonate explosives by Al Qaeda operatives in Yemen.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1238802/The-boy-grew-bomber-Flight-chaos-investigators-check-London-links.html#ixzz0b1RLZSMT

ETA link.





Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1238802/The-boy-grew-bomber-Flight-chaos-investigators-check-London-links.html

[valerief]

87. How come they don't bomb busses? nt

[Pavulon]

89. Umm..

they do

[valerief]

91. Oh, yeah, they do!!! Thanks. Just not over here. Yet, I guess. nt

[Mz Pip]

88. They all say that.

these guys seem to love to babble on about how they're all lined up and ready to go.

While I do believe there are people out there who wish to harm us I suspect there are far fewer than this guy would like us to believe. If it were try this kind of thing would be happening far more frequently.

[Christa]

90. True, but I don't doubt

that the stupid wars are creating more terrorists.

[valerief]

92. Or the terrorists are all part of the warmonger's project plan. nt

[Mz Pip]

95. I agree with that

but even if we ended both wars there would still be crazies out there.

Which is why the focus on getting these guys should be more about good intelligence/police work and not just bombing the crap out of some country.

[glinda]

96. and more Countries should help..... this is a massive problem all over.

[Plucketeer]

97. I've yet to hear what a "WIN" would look like in this

"War on Terror". The idea of a win is as stupid as the wars we're waging in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere (covert).

[Christa]

98. Wise words!

We are fighting an ideology - no why it can be won.

[christx30]

124. A "WIN" would

obviously include the total and complete end of terrorism everywhere in the world. Al Queda would be forced to sign a treaty with us. No more crazies mucking things up. As long as there are people out there that bomb planes, the war will continue. A bus gets bombed? A small city will be bombed. Billions will be spent. And as long as the war goes on, our political heroes will be able to justify curtailments to our civil rights.
And all we have to do to stop it is to win the war on terror.

[Plucketeer]

129. It's more extensive than that...

As long as there's some prankster that throws a firecracker behind someone with the intent of finding entertainment in seeing their "mark" jump - terrorism continues. Doesn't matter, the provocation. Fear and frantic response is the aim.

[fishnfla]

93. Well, they need to practice more

'cuz they suck at crotch bombs

[snagglepuss]

94. Seems he was influenced by the same iman that influenced the Ft Hood gunner.

[niyad]

99. this is the talkative one, yes? of course, I believe everything the gov't tells us is going on.

[TheWatcher]

115. Indeed! They only want to "keep you safe" and "have your best interests at heart"

Have they not proven as much to you by their actions these past few decades?

Oh, wait....

[ret5hd]

100. What if it was just his laptop battery exploding and all we're being told is lies?

[Thickasabrick]

109. They published pictures of his underwear with the device. nt

[damntexdem]

101. Oh, there can't be many more that incompetent and stupid.

The chilling thought is that someday there may be a competent suicide plane bomber.

[HipChick]

102. There are more..

There is, of course, no real control of how accurate the visa applications are, with hundreds of fake ‘universities’ and colleges, many of them just single rooms claiming to be educational institutions, granting the necessary papers to bogus students to enter the UK for a fee. Most famously, a number of would-be Islamist terrorists arrested recently on the Merseyside had all entered the UK on the basis of these fake university visas. They were all deported and the fake college which had arranged their visas was closed down. .

[Bitwit1234]

103. Hope they don't know any more about bomb making and blowing

up then the info they gave this creep.

[marshall]

104. If they're all as stupid as this one, we're on the upswing

Even his promoters have got to be embarassed at his ineptitude. And somewhere an Al Qaeda trainer is gettting reamed out for doing a piss poor job on getting this stooge ready for battle.

What's next in their bag of tricks? Exploding suppositories?

[daleo]

108. It has been tried

According to a story I read today, somebody tried killing a Saudi prince by a suicide bomb placed in his rectum just this summer.

Here's a related article.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/28/eveningnews/main5347847.shtml

[mac56]

113. old joke, needs to be used....

"Rectum?! Nearly killed 'im!"

:evilgrin:

[mac56]

105. Liar, liar....

pants on fire.

:evilgrin:

[zippy890]

125. LOL - thanks for the laugh

:spray:

[Regret My New Name]

130. *giggles*

[MetaTrope]

106. I still wonder why nobody in al-Qaeda has been canny enough to claim Bush & Cheney backed them

Then again, if the U.S. did have the terrorist swarms alive in neocon wet dreams, we'd already be seeing how vulnerable our ground-level passenger systems are.

[slackmaster]

107. That should help security people with their profiling efforts

It's real white of the guy to help out.

[Thickasabrick]

110. I've never understood that expression..."real white of them". What

does that mean?

[slackmaster]

112. I'm not sure of the origin but I'll try to look it up and post info if I can find it

I first heard it from a native of Virginia who I met in college back in the '70s. He told me it was a common expression where he grew up.

ETA the origin is clearly murky. Apparently it was originally a genuine, non-sarcastic compliment.

[happyslug]

116. The oldest report I have ever heard of that expression was 1919, so it is quite old

A news reporter found the former leader of the Homestead (1892) strike working in a Mexican mine (Iron if I remember right) dieing of black lung (or a related aliment). He wrote a report on it and brought it to the attention of Andrew Carnegie (Who was still alive at the time of the report but who had sold off his steel holdings around 1900 when US Steel was formed). Andrew Carnegie offered the ex strike leader a pension. The reporter went back to the Mexican mine and told this to the ex-strike leader. Upon hearing it the leaders said that was "That was mighty white of him" (paraphrased, the exact quote might be different) and went back into the mine.

That is how it was used when I heard the term, never aimed at a non-white always aimed at a white person implying that person was no better then the popular impression of non-whites of that time period (i.e. the Mexicans he was working with was better then Carnegie).

When used on a non-white the phase just falls flat (as can be seen when the Charter of "Dirty Harry" in the Clint Eastwood movie "Dirty Harry" uses the phase as to a black man). Maybe its my upbring, we never used terms like "That was mighty white of you" or calling someone who was tight with money a "Jew" unless that person was a White Christian (Calling a Jew a Jew is not an insult, calling someone who is a non-Jew a Jew do to the fact he is tight with money is an insult to that person for being tight with money).

Since my youth I have stopped hearing such phases, mostly do to the fact people can interpret them in a way that was never intended by the speaker (one phase I heard growing up was the phase "White N--ger" to describe a low down scheming no good white man. The same people who used the tern "White N--ger" did NOT use the term "N--ger" at all (those people tend to work with African-Americas so saw no need to insult them without good cause and rarely had good cause for the African-Americans never stabbed them in the back).

When you see such phases, look at who is using them against whom. These terms are almost never used against non-whites, these terms are used against white people who are NOT acting to the ideas of our society (i.e white people who are NOT acting as the ideal person is our society should be acting). When used otherwise the terms just fall flat, as seen in the Movie Dirty Harry, but when used against white Anglo-Saxon Protestants males (WASP) were effective but mostly used pre-1970 and we have seen a decline is such usage of such terms since that time.

Side note: In the book "King Solomon Mines" the author goes into almost two pages of why he hated and refused to use the common term for blacks for he had worked with them to long to hold such a negative opinion of them (You quickly know what term he means, but he NEVER uses the actual word). The author wrote his book in the 1880s, at about the same time Huckleberry Finn came out (Mark Twain was a much better writer and thus could use the term is such a way that it is clearly more a comment on the person using the term then the person is is aimed at). That the writer of "King Solomon Mines" had to write WHY he did not use the term is a comment on how prevalent that term was among whites (and one of the reason Twain did such an attack on the term in his books).

[Thickasabrick]

128. That was fascinating - thank you!! nt

[shadowknows69]

111. And we've earned every one of them.

[high density]

117. Yes the people on that Northwest flight were to blame for all the evil in the world NM

[shadowknows69]

118. NM is right. Our country reaps what it has sown, and innocents pay on both sides.

Not happy about it, but that's what I believe. We'll never end the hatred as long as our "leaders" on both sides keep perpetuating it.

[high density]

119. Yeah. So where does it end?

It definitely doesn't end with random people blowing up other random people on airplanes. In fact that just continues the cycle of the USA acting belligerent. These nuts are perpetuating the very thing that they hate.

[shadowknows69]

120. This doesn't help end it either.

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4202283>

Afghan civilian casualties up 10%: UN

By Sardar Ahmad (AFP) – 4 hours ago

KABUL — Civilian deaths in Afghanistan rose more than 10 percent in the first 10 months of 2009, UN figures showed Tuesday, amid anger over the alleged killing of children in a Western military operation.

Figures released to AFP by the UN Assistance Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA) put civilian deaths in the Afghan war at 2,038 for the first 10 months of 2009, up from 1,838 for the same period of 2008 -- an increase of 10.8 percent.

The figures were released a day after President Hamid Karzai launched an investigation into reports that 10 people, most of them school children, were killed in a raid by foreign troops near the Pakistan border.

The UN calculations show the vast majority, or 1,404 civilians, were killed by insurgents fighting for the overthrow of Karzai's government and to eject Western troops.

[high density]

123. OK. I still fail to see how that justifies bombing an airplane

Because I also see:

The UN calculations show the vast majority, or 1,404 civilians, were killed by insurgents fighting for the overthrow of Karzai's government and to eject Western troops.

Yes, they want us out, but we can't stop them from killing themselves.

I also seem to recall that we weren't messing around much in Afghanistan for a decade or two until we suddenly had planes being used as missiles against our civilians. If that country wants to harbor terrorists who plan to kill US citizens, then of course the USA is going to respond.

[shadowknows69]

127. So why didn't we invade Saudi Arabia again?

[TheWatcher]

114. Of COURSE THERE ARE.

And they will show up whenever the rabble needs to be reminded that there is an invisible "boogeyman" "out to get them", that "hates them for their freedoms", so the Oligarchs can continue to rob, loot, steal, expand their Police State, curtail Civil Rights, advance narrow, private agendas that have nothing to do with the interests of the people, rule of law,or any greater good, and wreak general havoc, all the in the name of continuing their phantom "War" on an "idea".

And the sheep of this country will continue to fall for it, because they can't be bothered to look beyond the surface, and see what is really going on.

But hey, at least The Playoffs will be on soon.

[Javaman]

121. "yes, there are many more like me!!! clueless lonely morons with bombs strapped to our nuts!!" nt

[yellowcanine]

122. Well one hopes they are "just like me". Because this guy was relatively clueless, as "terra-ists"

go. Not only should we be able to fairly easily figure out how to stop guys like this but it is also an indication of the quality of your average terra recruit these days.

[AzDar]

126. Can anyone tell me *why* he didn't just blast off in the lav?

He was apparently in there a long time, before returning to his seat.

There wouldn't be any interference from other passengers, really, in the john... so why?:shrug:

[jmowreader]

133. It certainly would have made sense...

For one thing, he could have taken the magic underwear off and retained his dick in the blast--73 virgins don't do you much good if you don't have any sex organs.

[BootinUp]

137. FYI (for the doubters)

There was a video at CNN main page this morning that showed what 1/13th the amount of PETN could do sitting on top of a metal plate thicker than the airplane fuselage. A large depression was made in the plate. The simulation clearly demonstrated this shit could have brought the plane down in my opinion and in the explosive experts opinion in the clip.

[BrightKnight]

142. world's biggest dumb-ass - n/t

[Ken Burch]

146. That's the last place I'd EVER wear a bomb

(...Not that I ever DO wear them, let me hasten to point out...)

:eyes: