"Meaningful Agreement" Reached on Climate

[jefferson_dem]

Source: CBS/AP

CBS/ AP) Updated at 3:49 p.m. EST

The U.S. reached a "meaningful agreement" with China, India and South Africa at the U.N. Climate Summit in Copenhagen, an official said.

The news came after a diplomatic frenzy enveloped the final scheduled day of the U.N. climate conference Friday, with President Barack Obama meeting with China's premier twice, once privately and another with other world leaders present, in hopes of sweeping aside some of the disputes that have barred a final deal.

"We are ready to get this done today but there has to be movement on all sides to recognize that is better for us to act rather than talk," Mr. Obama said earlier, insisting on a transparent way to monitor each nation's pledges to cut emissions.

Wen told delegates that China's voluntary targets of reducing its carbon intensity by 40 to 45 percent will require "tremendous efforts." The target refers to China's rate of emissions per unit of economic growth.

"We will honor our word with real action," Wen said.

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/18/politics/main5996598.shtml

[valerief]

1. The US can promise not to buy China's shit. We can start making our own.

Fat chance that will happen.

[WriteDown]

2. Will only happen..

if the dollar keeps dropping.

[endless october]

5. a return to manufacturing is the only real permanent solution

to our economic crisis. i support doing that as soon as possible.

[Igel]

7. It would be good.

We're more carbon efficient than China by a wide margin. Shift GDP to the US and watch the carbon emission per GDP drop.

[valerief]

25. Yeah, and it puts people here to work, too. (Not that I don't want to see

Chinese people work, too.)

[whosinpower]

3. Gee I wonder what Steven Harper is thinking now

He was so good at hiding behind China. Now what to do - Mr Fossil of the year.

[fascisthunter]

6. I Have to Borrow that.... the deniers are becomeing obsolete to solutions

they themselves have turned into fossils.

something like that... hmmmmmmmm

[doc03]

4. I don't like the sound of "Meaningful Agreement" that's

what our union officials tell us with every contract. Then after the contract goes into effect we discover we gave up more jobs and took more concessions.

[Javaman]

8. If this "agreement" is anything like the "gang of 10"'s agreement on health care...

they are fucked.

[placton]

9. If Obama says it, I don't believe it. n/t

[jefferson_dem]

11. Of course you don't.

Thanks for your candor.

[FreakinDJ]

10. China's Carbon Intensity means China's CO2 output will rise

This is no Cut in Emissions at all

Simply Bull Shit Lip Service

[denem]

12. YES. YES. YES. Go to China , denounce them in Tienanmen Square,

Just take out your carefully hidden megaphone and DEMAND that they change their evil ways. Show some backbone while it's still got flesh on it. That will fix them.

Please;
pretty please;
Pretty please with Plutonium on top.

[EFerrari]

14. He'd be further ahead to go to Lafayette Square because we are

much worse offenders.

[denem]

15. He is demanding that China cut emissions.

That isn't happening anytime soon, megaphone diplomacy or otherwise.

[EFerrari]

16. We have a mote & beam problem, it seems.

[denem]

17. Not really. The US has no authority to demand China cut emmissions,

legally, let alone morally. The US has to get it's house in order FIRST because it let loose the CO2 FIRST, along with Europe.

So I took issue that anything less than China cutting it's CO2 emissions was bullshit lip service.

But if the poster wishes to express an imperial prerogative, let them do so in person, with the strongest stated DEMANDS possible.

[FreakinDJ]

19. US has done more to cut CO2 emissions then China ever will

Get a clue / Wake Up and Smell the Green House Gases

China has No EPA Standards - None Nada ZIP

China has never met a carbon belching automotive engine it didn't Love - they have NO EMISSION Controls as in NONE

China has been placing a Coal Fired Power Plant on line at a rate of 1 per week - ALL WITHOUT Emissions Controls

Your living in a Dream World build on Disinformation and PURE BULL SHIT

[denem]

20. The US has made more CO2 emmissions than China ever has.

The future? Well the US has the Senate I suppose.

[FreakinDJ]

32. China will never institute emission standards

and you'll look even worse for wear then

[denem]

34. Never say never

you lose every time.

[EFerrari]

61. That is what I meant. The beam in our own eye vs the mote in theirs. n/t

[FreakinDJ]

18. Working on the Stupidity Award - China is #1 emitter of CO2

and they will increase emissions for the next 50 years

but thanks for playing

[denem]

22. 'Playing'? " China ... will increase emissions for the next 50 years"

Now you've moved on from playing Emperor who demands China does your bidding, to God, who knows they won't. Bravo!

[FreakinDJ]

30. You forgot you were WRONG about #1 CO2 emitter

We'll just over look that little fact

riddle me this - why would anyone trust your misinformed opinion

[denem]

33. BS. Where exactly did I say that?

[denem]

60. *** Crickets ***

[EFerrari]

39. I wouldn't dream of tresspassing on your territory. nt

[EFerrari]

13. Obama: they took the bribe we offered

to stand with our screwed up offer.

Because that's what this amounts to. The US offer is to reduce emissions to about double what is needed to just break even.

USA!

[ShortnFiery]

21. No Sale ... it was bland and meaningless. eom

[denem]

23. Kyoto dies in 2012.

2012 is shaping up to be a very good year indeed.

[timo]

24. ????

how meaningful is "non-binding"????????

[TomCADem]

26. Think Many Folks Fail To Appreciate The Progress From Outright Denial

Of climate change under the Bush administration. Plus, an increasingly large segment of the left are starting to question the science behind climate change.

[TomCADem]

27. Obama says 'unprecedented' deal reached on climate

Source: Yahoo

COPENHAGEN – President Barack Obama said the United States, China and several other countries reached an "unprecedented breakthrough" Friday to curb greenhouse gas emissions — including a mechanism to verify compliance — after a frenzied day of diplomacy at the U.N. climate talks.

The agreement, which also includes the developing nations of India, South Africa and Brazil, requires each country to list the actions they will take to cut global warming pollution by specific amounts, a senior Obama administration official said. The official described the deal on the condition of anonymity because specific details had not been announced.

The deal reiterates a goal that eight leading industrialized nations set earlier this year on long-term emission cuts and provides a mechanism to help poor countries prepare for climate change, the official said.

But it falls far short of committing any nation to emissions reductions beyond a general acknowledgment that the effort should contain global temperatures along the lines agreed to by the leading economic nations in July.


Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/climate

---

I guess it is revolutionary given that the feds are not denying climate change.

[mike_c]

28. I think it's odd that they're running the spin control FIRST...

...and revealing the actual deal later. I don't think that's an accident.

God I wish politicians would just speak plainly.

[stevedeshazer]

29. That's sure a lot different than the story I posted just before you!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/18/copenhagen-deal

Makes you wonder what the truth is here, comparing the US and British media.

:crazy:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

31. This is the sentence I was looking for:

The deal struck Friday includes a method for verifying reductions of heat-trapping gases, the official said. That was a key demand by Washington of China, which has resisted international efforts to monitor its actions.


This is crucial.

[stevedeshazer]

35. Low targets, goals dropped: Copenhagen ends in failure

Source: guardian.co.uk

The UN climate summit reached a weak outline of a global agreement last night in Copenhagen, falling far short of what Britain and many poor countries were seeking and leaving months of tough negotiations to come.

After eight draft texts and all-day talks between 115 world leaders, it was left to Barack Obama and Wen Jiabao, the Chinese premier, to broker a political agreement. The so-called Copenhagen accord "recognises" the scientific case for keeping temperature rises to no more than 2C but did not contain commitments to emissions reductions to achieve that goal.

American officials spun the deal as a "meaningful agreement", but even Obama said: "This progress is not enough."

"We have come a long way, but we have much further to go," he added.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/18/copenhagen-deal

---

This is really sad.

[Systematic Chaos]

36. Hopenfailen: Mission Accomplished.

I have no words which won't get this post deleted. :grr:

[truthisfreedom]

37. Further proof that we're going to have to come up with a technological solution.

Earth engineering. Climate engineering. Lots of guesswork and experiments.

[Elmore Furth]

38. Low targets, goals dropped: Copenhagen ends in failure

Source: The Guardian

The UN climate summit reached a weak outline of a global agreement last night in Copenhagen, falling far short of what Britain and many poor countries were seeking and leaving months of tough negotiations to come.

After eight draft texts and all-day talks between 115 world leaders, it was left to Barack Obama and Wen Jiabao, the Chinese premier, to broker a political agreement. The so-called Copenhagen accord "recognises" the scientific case for keeping temperature rises to no more than 2C but did not contain commitments to emissions reductions to achieve that goal.

The agreement aims to provide $30bn in funding for poor countries to adapt to climate change from next year to 2012, and $100bn a year after 2020.

But it disappointed African and other vulnerable countries who had been holding out for far deeper emission cuts to hold the global temperature rise to 1.5C this century. As widely expected, all references to 1.5C in previous drafts were removed at the last minute, but more surprisingly, the earlier 2050 goal of reducing global CO2 emissions by 80% was also dropped.



Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/18/copenhagen-deal

---

So something is better than nothing?

[saigon68]

64. Kick

[sabra]

40. U.S., China, India, S. Africa reach climate deal

Source: MSNBC

COPENHAGEN - The U.S., China, India and South Africa reached a “meaningful agreement” aimed at breaking the logjam on a broader international framework on climate, a senior Obama administration official said Friday.

The official characterized the deal as a first step, but said it was not enough to combat the threat of a warming planet.

Details of the deal with these emerging economies were not immediately clear.

The agreement was reached after a meeting among President Barack Obama, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and South African President Jacob Zuma.

The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the agreement had not yet been officially announced.

The agreement was with the smaller group of countries, but was being worked by Obama and various negotiating teams with a larger number of countries, the official said.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34475636/ns/us_news-environment/

[Renew Deal]

41. This success is clearly another Obama failure!

:evilgrin:

It's amazing how seemingly good and meaningful news is ignored.

[fascisthunter]

42. I think people are wondering what "meaningful" means before jumping up and down

"No binding treaty for now

Some drafts called for a legally binding treaty within six months or no later than December 2010. Earlier, one draft completely left out the goal of a binding treaty next year."

[OregonBlue]

43. Yeah, no details yet. Hard to get very excited about a non-binding agreement we haven't even seen.

[fascisthunter]

45. historically we have been let down so why assume

now that something "meaningful" will be done after this.

[HughMoran]

44. NO! It'll only benefit teh bankas! YEah, teh bankas - oh, and da Nazzis too - yeah, dem Natzis

I hope it works out. Love how the miserable rotten haters are already guaranteeing defeat. It's a funny game that bashing game. It's awfully addictive too it seems.

[AngryAmish]

46. Another huge steaming turd for us to swallow

No enforcement, nothing to stop global warming.

[rayofreason]

47. Another 95-0 vote coming? n/t

[m3e92man8850]

48. hope it's not more window dressing

[bananas]

49. Obama Dramatically Interrupts Meeting, Negotiators Reach Final Agreement

Source: Newsweek

Late in the afternoon Friday with the clock ticking down to zero, a rather dramatic scene unfolded that surprised even several top leaders at the climate negotiations in Copenhagen. In a secret meeting between Chinese, Indian and Brazilian heads of state, the door swung open revealing President Obama, who hadn’t been invited but had arrived to crash the meeting. Several diplomats protested the intrusion, but Obama simply informed them he wouldn’t accept them negotiating in secret. He sat down and started talking.

<snip>

The most historic part of the talks, though, is the fact that heads of state engaged in direct negotiations around the same table, rather than having their bidding being done by lower-level diplomats before arriving for photo ops, which is much more common. But Obama’s personal engagement in the talks opens the White House up to increased criticism from both sides – the right from having gone too far and the left for having falling short. What comes next Stavins can anticipate. “We can expect the spin doctors in the White House and the Republican Party will be working on overdrive this weekend."

Read more: http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thegaggle/archive/2009/12/18/obama-dramatically-interrupts-meeting-negotiators-reach-final-agreement.aspx

[EFerrari]

50. This story doesn't even make sense and I think Douglas Fairbanks

already tried it.

[treestar]

51. the right for having gone too far and the left for not having gone far enough

The extremes always unhappy and getting so much attention! Meanwhile the vast majority are fine.

[santamargarita]

52. Why the fuck doesn't he do that to the Senate?

Why?

[Amonester]

57. Because he has been paid (and will be paid again) for...

NOT doing that to the Senate?

[galileoreloaded]

53. Is this "Gone With the Wind" and is Obama supposed to be Clark Gable

oooh, how very dramatic.....

[Aviation Pro]

54. Maybe the President had an "Invictus" moment....

...those who have seen the movie know what I mean.

[kestrel91316]

55. Entire nations will have drowned by 2015, the date of the next get-together. Sigh.

350. ASAP. Preferably yesterday.

[grantcart]

56. there are follow up meetings in 6 and 12 months

[kestrel91316]

58. Congress won't approve any of it. We lack the votes.

[hatrack]

65. Oh, great - they're having meetings?!? I'm sure they'll hammer out a binding agreement . . .

If only they're allowed sufficient meetings.

:puke:

[IndianaGreen]

59. China snubbed Obama by sending low level officials to negotiate with him

The day's most remarkable feature was a direct and unprecedented personal clash between the US President, Barack Obama, and the Chinese Premier, Wen Jiabao, in which Mr Wen took deep offence at Mr Obama's insistence – in public – that the Chinese should allow their promised cuts in greenhouse gases to be internationally verified. When the President, in an unyielding speech, said that without international verification "any agreement would be empty words on a page", that was too much for Mr Wen. He left the conference in Copenhagen's Bella Centre, returned to his hotel in the city, and responded with a direct snub of his own – he sent low-level delegates to take his place in the talks.

A high-level source told The Independent that the US President was amazed when he found who he was negotiating with, and clearly regarded Mr Wen's absence as a major diplomatic insult. He snapped: "It would be nice to negotiate with somebody who can make political decisions" although last night urgent diplomatic efforts were underway to try to bring the two leaders face to face for a second round of talks, to patch up the disagreement.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/obamas-climate-accord-fails-the-test-1845090.html

This story was also reported tonight by Andrea Mitchell on the Rachel Maddow show.

I may disagree with Obama's policies, but such a public insult to the President of the United States is also an insult to the nation he represents.

Oy!

[Wardoc]

62. The bread is pretty. The tomatos are ripe. But I'd like to know...

What type of meat? Steak or Bologna?

[24601]

63. Meaningful - sure, right up there with peace in our time n/t

[Uncle Joe]

66. They say a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step and I believe that's what this was.

I believe the main problem is humanity doesn't time for a thousand mile journey, the use of fossil fuel needs to go away fast.

They need to continue working through those sociological barriers to a serious solution.

Thanks for the thread, jefferson_dem.