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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 09:59 AM
Original message
Official: Obama to send 30,000 additional troops to Afghanistan
Source: Associated Oress

President Barack Obama ends three months of exacting deliberations on Tuesday to outline his new Afghan strategy — an expected 50 percent increase in the U.S. military presence to beat back an emboldened Taliban insurgency and train government troops for the day when the Americans can withdraw.

An official told the Associated Press that Obama will send 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan to be deployed over six months.

In what may be the defining speech of his presidency and a gamble that could weigh heavily on Obama's chances for a second White House term, the president will address the country in a televised speech from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, New York.



Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34218604/ns/politics-white_house/
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
1. now who gets to pay?
30,000 x 1,000,000 = $30,000,000,000 ... $30 billion take the money from Cheney, Haliburton, KBR, Exxon,
Blackwater, Rummy, Bucky Bush, and everybody else who made $ from the Iraq war
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FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
2. This story eludes to the fact that Obama even wants a second-term. n/t
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
39. LBJ passed on a second term in lieu of a surge in Vietnam
I can only guess LBJ did what he thought was right, even if it meant running again. That is a man of conscience.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. No way!?!?
He wouldn't do something so stupid!!

Man, where can you buy stock in terror? Cuz there sure is a lot of new money being put into terror.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. what a bad decision, I am waiting for the next approval ratings poll
should show a definite steep decline.
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FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Crazy thing is....
His poll numbers went up 1.3 percentage points since this story leaked 2 days ago.
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. some people don't seem to care
as they think it doesn't affect them or they have become numb to war. It's scary.
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
5. Bring 'em all home now!
We're going the wrong way.
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
26. Absolutely!
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
7. I really don't even know why he's bothering with a speech tonight.
I know it couldn't be to placate the apathetic masses who can't see farther than the glow of their television. :sarcasm:
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montanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
8. I thought
the whole point of taking all this time to think was to make sure
there was a purpose (withdrawal) to sending more troops in. Without
a commitment to getting out of there what in hell is the point of
sending more people in? Maintain statue quo? President Obama, WE CAN"T
AFFORD THIS!
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junior college Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
9. If we don't fight them over there
they will paddle wooden boats to the Gulf Coast and blow themselves up on the beaches.
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RedSock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
10. More peace!
YAY!

And the one-party war machine goes on ....



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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
12. Obama's war, Obama's folly....
:puke:
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
13. I truly do hate the man now. truly. nt
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I don't hate him personally; I hate the long, long list of betrayals.
This is just about the biggest. :mad:
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
14. Tuesday, 1 December 2009. For the future, this will be a date to remember.
A speech at West Point with the cadets as a background. Bush could not have done it better.
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. I despise using the troops for political cover!
I don't care who's doing it. It sucks, and I really expected more from Obama.:argh: :grr: :nuke:
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
16. That. Just. Sucks.
thanks a pantload, Obama. You'll not be getting my vote next time around. Had I known you were going to escalate, I wouldn't have voted for you in the first place.
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JackintheGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. I agree that it sucks but
PLEASE wait to see the field before pledging not to vote for him again.

Sure, maybe an Obama/Palin race would be a walk-off for the incumbent, but with polls showing 40% of dems saying they won't vote in 2012 I'm more than a little afear'd.

But, give me a REAL progressive candidate and I'm jumping off the boat myself.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. if I voted for him again, I am saying that I support killing people in Afghanistan, which I don't
so I can't. Sorry.
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JackintheGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. A principled stand, and I can respect that
Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.

But I can also imagine perfectly what would be the result of a republican presidency, not just in Afghanistan (where we will undoubtedly still be in 2012, fucking Obama...) but everywhere else in the world. Unless there is a viable third party candidacy (ha ha ha), actively abetting the least harm is better than passively abetting the worse.

my two cents
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. polls showing 40% of dems saying they won't vote in 2012 I'm more than a little afear'd
maybe the dems should a little scared as well.
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. To be fair,
he campaigned for the war in Afghanistan. This is not a surprise. A big disappointment, but not a surprise.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. fair enough...
Edited on Tue Dec-01-09 01:35 PM by ixion
that was one of the big reservations I had about voting for him, and was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Call me a sucker. It's a big disappointment, to be sure.
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FreeStateDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
18. Howard Dean for president in 2012, BO the DINO can run as a puke.
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FreeStateDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Video: Rove welcomes troop increase
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Great. just 'effin' great. n/t
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Dean would be good.
I'd vote for him, Bernie Sanders, DK, Grayson, or any combo of them.
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SandWalker1984 Donating Member (533 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
24. Why are we fighting a war we can't win?? Unocal needs a pipeline!
It's obvious that we can't win in Afghanistan. Christopher Booker published an excellent article covering this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/6570380/Why-we-will-lose-in-Afghanistan.html

Why we will lose in Afghanistan
What we are hardly ever told about the country is that it has been for 300 years the scene of a bitter civil war, says Christopher Booker
By Christopher Booker
Published: 6:47PM Nov 2009

As both Britain and America are plunged into an orgy of tortured introspection over what we are doing in Afghanistan, a further very important factor needs to be fed into the discussion, because it helps to explain not only why we have got into such a tragic mess but also why our armed intervention in that unhappy country is doomed.
What we are hardly ever told about Afghanistan is that it has been for 300 years the scene of a bitter civil war, between two tribal groups of Pashtuns (formerly known as Pathans). On one side are the Durranis – most of the settled population, farmers, traders, the professional middle class. On the other are the Ghilzai, traditionally nomadic, fiercely fundamentalist in religion, whose tribal homelands stretch across into Pakistan as far as Kashmir.

Ever since Afghanistan emerged as an independent nation in 1709, when the Ghilzai kicked out the Persians, its history has been written in the ancient hatred between these two groups. During most of that time, the country has been ruled by Durrani, who in 1775 moved its capital from the Ghilzai stronghold of Kandahar up to Kabul in the north. Nothing has more fired Ghilzai enmity than the many occasions when the Durrani have attempted to impose their rule from Kabul with the aid of "foreigners", either Tajiks from the north or outsiders such as the British, who invaded Afghanistan three times between 1838 and 1919 in a bid to secure the North-west Frontier of their Indian empire against the rebellious Ghilzai.

When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in 1979, after years of Durrani rule, it was to support a revolutionary Ghilzai government. But this new foreign presence inspired general Afghan resistance which was why, by the late 1980s, the Americans were supporting the almost entirely Ghilzai-run Taleban and their ally Osama bin Laden. In 1996 the Taleban-Ghilzai got their revenge, imposing their theocratic rule over almost the whole country. In 2001, we invaded to topple the Taleban, again imposing Durrani rule, now under the Durrani President Karzai.

As so often before, the Ghilzai have seen their country hijacked by a Durrani regime, supported by a largely Tajik army and by hated outsiders from the West. One reason why we find it so hard to win "hearts and minds" in Helmand is that we are up against a sullenly resentful population, fired by a timeless hatred and able to call on unlimited support, in men and materiel, from their Ghilzai brothers across the border in Pakistan.

Only in towns such as Sanguin and Garmsir are there islands of Durrani, willing to support the Durrani government in distant Kabul. No sooner have our forces "secured" a village from the Taleban, than their fighters re-emerge from the surrounding countryside to reclaim it for the Ghilzai cause. Without recognizing this, and that what the Ghilzai really want is an independent "Pashtunistan" stretching across the border, we shall never properly understand why, like so many foreigners who have become embroiled in Afghanistan before, we have stumbled into a war we can never hope to win.
************


So why are we staying and fighting? Pipelines.


Pipeline-Istan: Everything you need to know about oil, gas, Russia, China, Iran Afghanistan & Obama

http://www.bushstole04.com/Obama_Presidency.htm/obama_oil_gas.htm
excerpts:


TAPI's (Turkmenistan - Afghanistan - Pakistan - Iran Pipeline) roller-coaster history actually begins in the mid-1990s, the Clinton era, when the Taliban were dined (but not wined) by the California-based energy company Unocal and the Clinton machine. In 1995, Unocal first came up with the pipeline idea, even then a product of Washington's fatal urge to bypass both Iran and Russia. Next, Unocal talked to the Turkmenbashi, then to the Taliban, and so launched a classic New Great Game gambit that has yet to end and without which you can't understand the Afghan war Obama has inherited.

A Taliban delegation, thanks to Unocal, enjoyed Houston's hospitality in early 1997 and then Washington's in December of that year. When it came to energy negotiations, the Taliban's leadership was anything but medieval. They were tough bargainers, also cannily courting the Argentinean private oil company Bridas, which had secured the right to explore and exploit oil reserves in eastern Turkmenistan.

In August 1997, financially unstable Bridas sold 60% of its stock to Amoco, which merged the next year with British Petroleum. A key Amoco consultant happened to be that ubiquitous Eurasian player, former national security advisor Zbig Brzezinski, while another such luminary, Henry Kissinger, just happened to be a consultant for Unocal. BP-Amoco, already developing the Baku-Tblisi-Ceyhan (BTC) pipeline, now became the major player in what had already been dubbed the Trans-Afghan Pipeline or TAP. Inevitably, Unocal and BP-Amoco went to war and let the lawyers settle things in a Texas court, where, in October 1998 as the Clinton years drew to an end, BP-Amoco seemed to emerge with the upper hand.

Under newly elected president George W. Bush, however, Unocal snuck back into the game and, as early as January 2001, was cozying up to the Taliban yet again, this time supported by a star-studded governmental cast of characters, including Undersecretary of State Richard Armitage, himself a former Unocal lobbyist. The Taliban were duly invited back to Washington in March 2001 via Rahmatullah Hashimi, a top aide to "The Shadow," the movement's leader Mullah Omar.

Negotiations eventually broke down because of those pesky transit fees the Taliban demanded. Beware the Empire's fury. At a Group of Eight summit meeting in Genoa in July 2001, Western diplomats indicated that the Bush administration had decided to take the Taliban down before year's end. (Pakistani diplomats in Islamabad would later confirm this to me.)

The attacks of September 11, 2001 just slightly accelerated the schedule. Nicknamed "the kebab seller" in Kabul, Hamid Karzai, a former CIA asset and Unocal representative, who had entertained visiting Taliban members at barbecues in Houston, was soon forced down Afghan throats as the country's new leader.

Among the first fruits of Donald Rumsfeld's bombing and invasion of Afghanistan in the fall of 2001 was the signing by Karzai, Pakistani President Musharraf and Turkmenistan's Nyazov of an agreement committing themselves to build TAP, and so was formally launched a Pipelineistan extension from Central to South Asia with brand USA stamped all over it.

Russian President Vladimir Putin did nothing -- until September 2006, that is, when he delivered his counterpunch with panache. That's when Russian energy behemoth Gazprom agreed to buy Nyazov's natural gas at the 40% mark-up the dictator demanded. In return, the Russians received priceless gifts (and the Bush administration a pricey kick in the face). Nyazov turned over control of Turkmenistan's entire gas surplus to the Russian company through 2009, indicated a preference for letting Russia explore the country's new gas fields, and stated that Turkmenistan was bowing out of any U.S.-backed Trans-Caspian pipeline project. (And while he was at it, Putin also cornered much of the gas exports of Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan as well.)

*********

SO THERE YOU HAVE IT. THIS WAR IS REALLY ABOUT A PIPELINE.
OBAMA WON'T BE ALLOWED TO PULL OUT OF AFGHANISTAN UNTIL THE LAND THE PIPELINE WILL BE BUILT ON IS SECURED. SO MUCH FOR HUMAN RIGHTS -- IT'S ABOUT OIL PROFITS.
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
28. U.S. troops will start leaving region 'well before' end of first term
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34218604/ns/politics-white_house/


Official: U.S. troops will start leaving region 'well before' end of first term

President Barack Obama plans to send 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan over six months, an accelerated timetable — with an endgame built in — that would have the first Marines there as early as Christmas, a senior administration official told The Associated Press.

U.S. troops are expected to start leaving the region 'well before' the end of Obama's first term, the AP reported Tuesday. A senior government official told NBC contributor Col. Jack Jacobs that the president believes that a transition from American-led combat to Afghan leadership of the effort will begin in July 2011.

With the full complement of new troops expected to be in Afghanistan by next summer, the heightened pace of Obama's military deployment in the 8-year-old war appears to mimic the 2007 troop surge in Iraq, a 20,000-strong force addition under former President George W. Bush. Similar in strategy to that mission, Obama's Afghan surge aims to reverse gains by Taliban insurgents and to secure population centers in the volatile south and east parts of the country.

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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. We can believe THAT when it happens...
if history tells us anything...
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. More 'Light at the End of the Tunnel' nonsense
that resonates with those of us that lived through Vietnam.
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Frank Cannon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. Charlie Brown. Lucy. Football.
Don't people understand that Charles Schulz was trying to tell us something with all that?

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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
32. So he's fullfilling a campaign promise, why such surprise around here?
Was I the only one who heard him say that Afghanistan was the war we needed to win?

I wasn't an Obama supporter as most here can attest to but I support my president.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Like he fulfilled DADT and DOMA promises, heh?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-01-09 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
33. This is a sad and tragic error with long term consequences
It also buries our hopes for a better future!

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Steerpike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
37. the question you want to ask yourself is...
Do you want to dedicate your limited resources to killing people or do you want to spend it on domestic programs for the middle class?

education

health

infrastructure

jobs

or

dead babies

I guess the President has made his decision.
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DVJKB14th Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
38. Trust Your President
I am by no means in favor of war, however we MUST finish what we started. To give up now will make the thousands of lives that have been lost... they will have died for nothing. The Taliban is a lost group of people. I think it is hard for Americans and most of us in the western world to understand how dysfunctional they are. We are there for a reason: To ensure that the functional government has the power to keep the country under control without an American military presence. Until that purpose is fulfilled I believe it to be foolish to leave. I'm getting sick of Americans (including myself at times) thinking we know everything about everything. Everybody is a critic in this country, everybody knows how to do everyone else's job FAR better than the person who's job it is. Everyone knows more about our national security than our president... I think a lot of us are lying to ourselves about the fact that we may only know how to do the thing we know how to do, be it plumbing, banking, medicine, music, making a hamburger. Let the president of the United States, whom we elected to lead us and represent us and make decisions for us, DO HIS JOB. It seems that everyone in this country is so eager to point their finger and blame simply because we are used to it with our less than competent presidents of the past. President Obama IS DIFFERENT. We know he is different. Remember how happy we all were when he was elected. People were happy for a reason. Because he is an intelligent, honest and hard-working person that cares and supports that which is good. Don't forget that.
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