US delays crackdown on Internet gambling

[demoleft]

Source: afp

AFP - The US Treasury Department and Federal Reserve Board delayed for six months on Friday the enforcement of new rules designed to crack down on Internet gambling.

In a joint statement, the Treasury Department and Federal Reserve said US financial institutions were being given until June 1, 2010 to be in compliance with the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act.

The act, which would ban US banks, credit card and financial companies from handling unlawful Internet gambling bets, had been scheduled to take effect on December 1.
...
The US ban on Internet gambling has been challenged as an unfair trade restriction at the World Trade Organization and a US congressman is seeking to overturn the 2006 act with legislation that would allow online gambling.

Read more: http://www.france24.com/en/node/4935311

[valerief]

1. Internet gambling. That's credit default swaps, right? Exotic derivatives? nt

[PatrynXX]

2. Once upon a time Casino's were Native American.

When did it change? Just can't figure that out.

Just tons of Casino's popping up in Iowa alone. Figured there'd be this huge media blitz when it happened , but I can't remember it.

[mopinko]

7. meh. indian casinos are a recent development.

last 10-15 years, iirc. lots of casinos before that, vegas and elsewhere.

[Liberation Angel]

17. Native folks in precolonial contact did like to wager for cool stuff

they had a game they bet on and competed in

and

the fact is that as craftsmen and tradesmen they could replace what they lost in bets so it was a much more friendly game but still competitive.

[Lucky Luciano]

3. this law should be repealed.

I enjoy poker - I have not attempted online poker because you never know if your up against a computer algorithm or team players that can share card information - that would give people a huge edge. I would not mind trying to write some programs that analyze players with a huge history of playing styles in a database. Then I can backtest my own playing strategies strictly using probabilities and seeking small edges....either that or I can just to similar techniques for trading.

[GreenStormCloud]

23. Player profile programs already exist.

You subscribe to the service. When you play the actions of the other players are sent to the service and in real time you can see the lifetime statistics of the other players that the service has a file on. Those stats are displayed in a small windown next each player's avatar. And there are advisory programs that tell you what to do, taking those stats into account.

I quit playing online poker three years ago. I love poker when played in person because I have a strong edge, but online my edge wasn't there. It became a game of how good was my supporting software against their supporting software.

[pitohui]

33. well you're sometimes playing against teams/colluders live too...

as greenstormcloud points out, for online play, it's silly to reinvent the wheel, you can buy programs rather cheaply that give you different player stats...

my experience w. live play is that the floor does fuck-all to protect you, you're on your own and you prob. encounter more cheating than in online play...but i've been in situations where the only option was to change tables/rooms because the floor tolerated obvious collusion...it seems to happen semi-regularly live

i play an honest game and so want my team mate to be on a different table, what makes me laugh is when people complain that we're on different tables..."what difference does it make?" honey, if you don't know what difference it makes when two people, playing off the same bankroll, play on the same table, wow, just wow...there are some people out there who really know how to hurt themselves when it comes to their money

[Liberation Angel]

4. This is HUGE - Bush, Blackwater types etc involved in internet gaming and money laundering

I have unique experience in this area and what few people know is that banks in Asia also own casinos: Indonesian, Chinese and others (many with ties to Americans like Bush and to Bush himslef) can control and launder HUGE sums from human sex trafficking, heroin, illegal disposal of nuke waste in Africa and all sorts of shit including private armies and assassination squads and spooks etc through these operations. While much of internet gambling is illegal in the US with a US credit card - there are not such restrictions for foreign credit cards (or rather differing ones in differing places)

Image running a bank and a casino operation online and you issue the credit cards and the credit and keep the money in offshore banks with banking privacy laws like Vanuatu or Casyman Islands.

Imagine what hell you could engage in.

THAT is what Bush's cronies did, what the Abramoff scandal (which brought down rethug Tom Delay) and which is what makes Mitt Romney run (his top guy is the Bush gaming and intelligence operator name of Kaplan, as I recall.

This is deep stuff and which is largely unknown.

Waxman is supposed to investigate but witnesses are afraid to testify...

folks need to watch this as this is where the largest sums of dirty money flow for all manner of global evil, corruption and mass murder

Internet gambling and money laundering through secret offshore banking systems all run by monsters like Cheney can finance ANYTHING

[Fearless]

9. You'll want to cite that.

[Liberation Angel]

11. You can start here

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46671

Miers and Gtech is one main link of the chain but there are many others.

McCain, Bush and Romney are tied together through Indian Gaming corruption.

I will get more later

but the Marianas Islands were key as well...that is what was the tip of the Delay Abramoff scandal but that goes much deeper and farther

Just for starters

[Fearless]

13. I fail to see how the Texas lottery and online gambling have a thing to do with eachother

[Liberation Angel]

14. I said start there

not finish there

Miers moves from head of Texas Lottery to head the white house legal counsel

internet gaming and lotteries are very similar technologically

then follow gtech from welfare services in Texas to getting a franchise for lottery ssytems in Great Britain (beating out Branson of Virgin records/airways


.

I don't have time to lay out all of the connect the dots for you

But I am telling you what the biggest picture of all is: internet gaming ties to offshore money laundering banks and criminal enteririses which finance dirty ops for the Fourth Reich off the shelf and wherever they want. Asian mobs run a lot of it but Bush et l were complicit via support for their ops in the Marianas Islands (A US territory but with asian run operations

and casinos

labor laws got the publicity but the real story was the gaming connections between Bush, Norquist, Delay and Abramoff and Asian financiers tied to the Asian casino operators and banks which do a lot of dirty stuff.

Tan Holdings allegedly forced women to get abortions to keep their jobs (This US territoty is exempt from US regulatory controls and Bush was the titular head of government

anyway

more info here for a primer on some of the issues and the dirty businesses:


http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/jack%20abramoff%20-%20lobbying/id/5173780

[Fearless]

15. I guess if connecting the dots = giving proof of your claims then you'll have to connect the dots.

[Liberation Angel]

16. I am showing you the tip of this fascist iceberg money/murder machine

To see the iceberg in its entirety requires diving deep into it the cold cold waters in the dark....

I have.

Basically my is is just a heads up about the issues involved: BFEE murder inc uses internet and other gaming ops and banking to finance their global hegemony.

The ties to Malaysia, China, and banks and casinos in Asia and the pacific Islands (some in US territory) are all there for anyone to see if you look.

Whether Obama has a clue about this or not I have no idea.

And even if DU ers do not know details they should at least be aware that there is an iceberg and that what I am pointing out is a tip of that monster killer operation...

I do not need to prove anything here at DU, but I can point the way for those interested in this...

Being aware that the beastly machinery exists is the first step in seeing it and recognizing it when it slips into sight...

[Fearless]

18. You're right you don't need to prove anything.

But I also don't have to believe you without proof.

:tinfoilhat:

Cheers,
Fearless

[Liberation Angel]

19. Believe me, I am providing evidence. Proof is in what you believe to be true or not.

Ask any judge or jury/ Proof is relative and is only a function of what you beieve to be sufficient proof.

What I am saying is pretty simple: internet gaming can be used for massive money laundering and crooked bastards like Bush et al have been involved in it for many years.

By laundering money through internet gaming ops they can move money through offshore banks and gambling centers to do all sorts of evil, including human sex trafficking, drugs,illegal dumping of toxic waste and financing of military and intel ops globally.

I do not care if you think there is sufficient proof of that.

I just want folks to be aware that I believe there is a LOT of evidence for it that people can look at to judge for themselves.

But the first step is to be cognizant that it is happening or that it MAY be happening, then follow the money and the evidence.

Money laundering for global fascist military and intel ops...

via the internets

whatta concept!

who'd a thunk it?

[Fearless]

22. We have a very different interpretation of the word "proof"

[Liberation Angel]

25. So, enlighten me...

Prove means to demonstrate something to someone's satisfaction. But that is ALWAYS subjective (almost - depending on what you are trying to prove).

If you are not convinced that gaming can be extremely corrupt and that internet gaming and casinos can be and are used for money laundering by fascist elites, so be it.

[musicblind]

24. Proof is not what you believe to be true or not

Proof is when someone proves a certainly belief to be true by presenting an indisputable fact with no wiggle room for other interpretations.

[Liberation Angel]

26. Actually that is not true, in legal terms proof does not require undisputable facts

It requires someone ( a "trier of fact" either judge or jury) to believe something is demonstrably true BUT

there are differing standards of proof

a preponderance of the evidence is one standard and simply mans something is more likely to be true than not.

Even "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" (the criminal standard) is subjectove based on what the jury or judge believes.

In layman's terms "prove it" means "show me enough to convince me it is true"

By that standard I have shown the evidence which I believe is sufficient for people to believe it MAY be true and to investigate further as I have done. I am convinced that what i believe is true and that objective analysis by others will prove I am right.

But sometimes all the proof in the world will not convince someone who does not want to be convinced.

[Fearless]

30. You're confusing truth and justice.

Justice is not certain, truth always is.

Proof beyond a reasonable doubt isn't truth. It's justice.

Proof of truth is different however. You must give evidence, factually based. I'm not interested in SPECULATION, which could be true. There could be a god. But frankly I'd like tangible proof. The idea that a religious group says so isn't enough for me. The same goes with conspiracy theories.

It's nothing against you, honestly. You can believe anything you want. But, I need a little evidence.

[Fearless]

29. THANK YOU.

Something either is happening or isn't happening.

[Liberation Angel]

5. Highly K'd and R'd

I strongly urge folks to inform themselves and rec this

This is what finaces global fascism and the opposition to Obama and to all progressive movements

[groundloop]

6. If Bushco were so entrenched in money laundering through online gaming ...

Why is it that Bush pushed the laws to ban it? You make some terribly strong accusations, do you have links to sources to back it up?

On one hand it seems as though online gaming would be an easy conduit for money laundering. BUT, the big name online casinos (Poker Stars etc.) make a lot of money by having a reputation for a clean site, and put a lot of effort into keeping their games straight.

I haven't played for real money online in several years, but if I were so inclined wouldn't hesitate to trust any of the main sites. Personally it seems like our govt. is missing out on a huge source of tax income.

[Liberation Angel]

10. Same principle as illegal drugs

If you control the trade you want to make sure no one else can get a piece...

Legal sites aren't as much of a problem (although all gaming cab be used for money laundering) --- the problem is with lack of control and accountability.

It is a very corrupt business in any event.

[closeupready]

32. So THIS is my problem - the government saying we aren't going to regulate and you can't play

IMO, authorities have no right to prohibit people from playing online. They obviously have the power and influence to bend the industry to its will, however; that is what the UIGEA is about.

So basically, the government is okay with you spending every cent playing scratch cards that return 65% of money played to the player, but NOT with spending every cent on slots that return 96% of money played to the player. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that's because that other 30% is going out of your pocket and into the pockets of someone with a vested interest in banning online gaming.

[ThisThreadIsSatire]

8. Did you kinow that...

since the Bush Administration couldn't get enough support for an internet gambling ban -- they attached it to the Patriot Act?

Apparently that's how terrorists funnel money in and out of the country...

2-1 says the law gets repealed...

[Liberation Angel]

12. Yeah but the act by Bush also legalized offshore corporate accounts

for those companies with homeland security contracts (its an emergency y'know)

Clinton had shut down contracts with companies that had offshore accounts.

9=11 made it possible for them to reopen for US business

May have been the reason for MIHOP IMHO.

[Ter]

20. The Federal government has no right getting involved in banning gambling

The whole bill is illegal.

[Liberation Angel]

27. Oh please.

What they are doing is regulating it and prohibiting or requiring compliance with stuff that is dangerous to people and economies.

I have no problem i you want to place bets and gamble provided it is not contributing to some harm to others (chicken or dogfighting or bloodsports for example)

But regulating what banks do is a good idea, especially when the internet and casinos can be used for massive money laundering and fraud.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Liberation Angel]

28. Proof

proof (prf)
n.
1. The evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true.
2.
a. The validation of a proposition by application of specified rules, as of induction or deduction, to assumptions, axioms, and sequentially derived conclusions.
b. A statement or argument used in such a validation.
3.
a. Convincing or persuasive demonstration: was asked for proof of his identity; an employment history that was proof of her dependability.
b. The state of being convinced or persuaded by consideration of evidence.
4. Determination of the quality of something by testing; trial: put one's beliefs to the proof.
5. Law The result or effect of evidence; the establishment or denial of a fact by evidence.

...
9. Archaic Proven impenetrability: "I was clothed in Armor of proof" (John Bunyan).
adj.

Proving that BFEE uses internet casinos and offshore banks to finance global fascism is all in what you are compelled to accept as true. Believe it or not.

[defendandprotect]

31. k i c k