New H-1B hiring bill takes aim at tech firms

[Newsjock]

Source: Computerworld

The two lawmakers who successfully added H-1B hiring restrictions to the financial bailout bill earlier this year have introduced legislation that would bar any firm that lays off 50 or more workers from hiring guest workers.

This legislation, introduced by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa), could potentially affect a broad swath of tech firms that have laid off large numbers of workers but continue hiring.

The high-tech industry overall has laid off more than 345,000 workers since August 2008, according to the two senators in the unveiing of what they called the Employ America Act.

"With the unemployment rate over 10%, companies that undertake mass layoffs shouldn't need to hire foreign guest workers when there are plenty of qualified Americans looking for jobs," said Grassley, in a statement yesterday.

Read more: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9141198/New_H_1B_hiring_bill_takes_aim_at_tech_firms

[rocktivity]

1. CUE THE VONAGE THEME!

Better yet, let's get rid of it altogether. If America needs a stronger IT workforce, we should create our own.

:woohoo:
rocktivity

[sudopod]

2. Yep! That's the important theme to remember.

We can support this sort of reform even though anti-immigrant haters try to use H1Bs to foment outrage. If we must cut back on H1Bs, it is only so that we can protect our domestic capacity to make for-loops and internet tubes, rather than some animus against scary furriners commin' to steal our jorbs.

[gmpierce]

4. almost

Wrong framing. IT people are a little too smart and a little too well-educated to worry about "scary foreigners". If anything, IT people like the foreigners better than they like the SOBs who have been shipping the jobs overseas. And they feel a little sorry for the H1-B guy with long hours, relatively low wages and a visa that makes them a slave.

The legislation is a only small move in the right direction. It means that when they dump the IT workers, they will have to replace them with younger, dumber recent graduates. But at least the poor schlub with a 100,000 student loan balance might be able to get a job.

[sudopod]

5. Aye :(

[Vidar]

93. Kudos to Sanders & Grassley.

[pattmarty]

3. Well, this just shows that we need another 90 Senators like Bernie Sanders.

[AzDar]

8. What a wonderful world, no?

Loves me some Bernie!:loveya:

[UndertheOcean]

6. I am a Professor on an H1-B , and I think this is completely fair, recc'ed.

[EnviroBat]

7. Awesome!!!

The two newly hired assholes at my company have designs to do exactly that. I work for a State University, and have really enjoyed working here, but in the last year they've made the mistake of hiring a new director from outside, as well as a new CIO, (useless individual). Both of these "leaders" are from private industry where the biggest motivation is to put peopl out of work and replace them with lower paid contractors ASAP. We are already beginning to see the private industry mentality starting to infect this place like sewage from a broken line. Semi-annual "performance evaluations", which are slick ways of making you re-apply and justify your job twice a year.

This used to be a place where workers stayed until their retirement. Now, thanks to the new brain-trusts installed, they are trying to force workers into the unemployment line. I've never met a CIO that was worth a damn, and most posses less technical ability than chimpanzees. All they care about is reducing the "bottom line", and people are nothing more than a commodity. The "Palin-esque" CIO they hired here ran her last company's IT department into the ground after she effectively pissed off every worker worth a damn, and replaced them all with H1-B resume padders. I weep for the fucking future...

[daggahead]

14. CIOs all have "next quarter" - itis.

The next quarter must have cost reduction, lower overhead, blah, blah, blah.
Nevermind that quality will suffer horribly and you'll have one person doing the work that 4 or 5 used to do.

[soarsboard2]

9. Makes Sense

amazing it has passed.

Bernie Sanders Rocks!!!!!!!!

[OhioChick]

10. Good for Grassley and Sanders! What....no Dems on board? K&R n/t

[ChromeFoundry]

15. what happened to Durbin on this one?

Good news, anyway.

[tongolap]

18. that's surprising

I thought there would be a democrat co-sponsoring this

[wpsedgwick]

54. huh...

Not really a surprise about Durbin...

[StreetKnowledge]

68. Grassley doing something sane is surprising enough.

Working with Bernie Sanders is more so. :o It's a good piece of legislation, regardless of who introduces it. Maybe Grassley and some the fellow-traveling GOP idiots realize that if Americans overall get wealthier, so will their corporate masters......

[pundaint]

11. most of these guys require 1099 relationships anyway

It's a baby step in the right direction but this is a deeply entrenched problem.

[Newsjock]

12. Related: Silicon Valley jobless rate rises to 11.9 percent

Source: San Jose Mercury News

Silicon Valley's jobless rate edged up to a record 11.9 percent in October, the California Employment Development Department reported this morning.

That compares with a seasonally adjusted unemployment rate of 12.5 percent throughout California and 10.2 percent in the U.S.

In September, the jobless rate in the San Jose metropolitan area — Santa Clara and San Benito counties — was 11.8 percent; a year ago, it was 6.7 percent.

The valley actually added 3,500 jobs last month due to a seasonal increase by education employers. The total number of jobs in the valley was 878,300, down 4.9 percent from a year earlier.

Read more: http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_13832842

[Ignis]

63. Yep, excrutiatingly related. Nice tie-in.

:thumbsup:

[progressivebydesign]

13. It's a damn good start! Bill Gates will squash that, though..

he's fervently pro-H-1B, so that he can import workers while claiming that we have NO tech workers good enough to take the jobs (even tho thousands of them are unemployed in America.) Companies should have to prove that they have exhausted all attempts to hire local workers, AND create a training program to retrain fired workers into those jobs.

But.. when I see people in India with masters degrees online willing to work for $3.00 an hour (really), then I see it's all about the greed. Corporate America is destroying America. And they're too fucking stupid, even in this financial meltdown, to see that you can't take away everyone's job and expect them to buy your shitty products.

[Deja Q]

27. I see lots of Indians loitering around in front of buildings and store parking lots.

(So not all Indians are making $3/hr; plenty have the time to lallygag around and actually, you know, be happy for having time to breathe because they're making more than $3/hr. Maybe they're angry at "the man"(tm).)

[Keno76]

29. LOL, You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

LOL, You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Guess you never heard of "Prevailing Wage" Look it up and learn something before babbling nonsense.

[Garam_Masala]

60. $3 in India buys about the same as $100 in US

for almost every service and goods except imported luxury goods.

This is a good bill and kudos to Sanders and Grassley the republican
from Iowa.

[Deja Q]

75. Seconded.

[MattSh]

16. Sanity from the Senate? Holy Shit.

Oh, wait. That's only two senators. Snowball, meet hell.

.

[tongolap]

17. "That's only two senators. Snowball, meet hell"

but there's almost 60 democrats in the senate, so it's a sure thing to pass

Democrats are on the side of working people

[Mari333]

19. dems on the side of the working people?

yeah and Im the Queen of England.

[Missy Vixen]

20. Bravo

If you work in the IT industry and have any money at all, please make a donation to Sanders' campaign. I'm not enamored of the Republicans, either, but it might be worth at least a small donation to us as well.

These guys (well, not Bernie Sanders, but everyone else,) are motivated by CASH. When they see donations happening, they'll act accordingly...

[Tesha]

98. Every chance we get! You go Bernie! (NT)

[Spider Jerusalem]

21. 'Plenty of qualified Americans looking for jobs'...

there's the thing; how many of the unemployed Americans ARE qualified in specialist technical work? And if the tech industry has laid off 345,000 workers, where have they laid off? R&D? Factory workers? IT management? How skilled are the occupations that saw cuts, and how much of a pool of US labour is there to draw on for the jobs there are? The issue is not as simple as some people want to make it, unfortunately.

[ChromeFoundry]

23. How many armchair quarterbacks...

make blanket comments, outside of their element of understanding, like you just did? You obviously do not understand how US corporations have manipulated the system in their favor, at the expense of the US worker. Yes, there ARE many qualified tech workers that cannot find jobs in the US because it is less expensive to import foreign workers through the H-1b program. And yes, the issue is fairly simple... I work in this field and see it every day. Do you?

[brolific]

24. I think he probably does work in the fiield

but did you note how he spells 'labor'?

[ChromeFoundry]

26. That.. and...

a profile that lists their location as: UK.

So effectively, he couldn't work in this field. Football here and there are not exactly the same sport.

Nothing against our UK friends... But I wouldn't try telling someone from the UK, 'WHO' is unemployed in the UK. That would just be stupid.

[Spider Jerusalem]

28. Shouldn't make assumptions.

I'm an American. Some people do move abroad.

[OhioChick]

30. "Some people do move abroad. "

Yes, because there are no jobs here.

[Ignis]

64. Well played. (nt)

[ChromeFoundry]

31. Doesn't matter...you're not here

and if you are abroad and in a tech field, you should know you ain't gonna be coming back anytime soon. US companies don't want you.

[Spider Jerusalem]

32. There are 65K H1B visas issued annually.

This year 20K of those went unused. And you ARE aware that by law, H1B visa holders receive the prevailing wage for the position they're filling and can't be paid less than other employees with similar education and experience? They aren't low-paid replacements for American workers.

[ChromeFoundry]

35. Prevailing wage? Did you really just go there????

LOL...

P.W. is manipulated by the US companies even more-so than the 'need' for H-1Bs.

Yeah... I'm very aware of how the prevailing wage clause is used to lower wages even further for the H-1B employee.

It's not as popular this year since the feds are actually performing spot checks on companies...and there have already been legal actions taken against several companies... Hence the surplus!

Oh, and BTW.. Yes they are low-wage replacements to save the company a few bucks... I see that every day, even was forced to implement this charade at a previous employer.

Honestly, you don't know what you are talking about.

[Spider Jerusalem]

36. No, I do know what I'm talking about.

I also know xenophobia and scapegoating when I see it. H1B visa holders? Not responsible for high unemployment; that would be this thing called a 'recession'. And it's not a zero-sum game; skilled foreign workers pay taxes and contribute to local economies (and it's a fact that there aren't enough Americans graduating with engineering, computer science, biotech, etc degrees).

[ChromeFoundry]

37. Now you are tossing out the xenophobe card?

talk about pathetic. You say you know what you are talking about, yet you back it up with no facts from across the ocean.
...then state how they contribute to our tax-base when you clearly don't.

On graduates with CS, Engineering and Hard-science degrees... What, didn't read the Duke study on that from two years ago???

[Spider Jerusalem]

39. You ARE aware that US citizens are taxed on the basis of citizenship and not residency?

And Americans living abroad are taxed double on income above an $85K exemption level?

Not that my status is what's at issue here; it isn't. And, yes, xenophobia. Because that's what it looks like from here. And you're referring the the study that showed that China has nearly three times as many graduates with IT, computer science, or engineering degrees? Because I did see it and it kind of supports my argument.

[ChromeFoundry]

40. Actually...no

that is not the study I was referring to...

Let's take your argument into context:
United States' population is 300 million
China's is 1.3 billion

We are putting out more science and technical degrees per year, per person. What was your point again?

[Spider Jerusalem]

41. Lower in absolute terms.

Which is what matters.

[ChromeFoundry]

42. ...and quality of education

Doesn't matter? US or British degrees are the most coveted in the world.

A Volume comparison is a ridiculous barometer when comparing anything on such a vast member set differential. Kinda like.. you want to be forced to drink piss out of a shot glass or the ocean?

Maybe you ought to read some of the links in OhioChick's previous post...
You know, the one you bypassed, because you are too obtuse to deal with actual data.


God, I love the ignore feature of this site; It's like a laser beam for stupid.

[OhioChick]

38. "Xenophobia?" Get off it and educate yourself.....here's a start

The H-1B program is riddled with abuse and does depress wages...

Bush wants more young Indian minds in US

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Bush_wants_more_youn ...

Bill Gates asks US Senate panel to ease skilled-worker visas

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bill-gates-asks-us-sen ...

IBM Wins Outsourcing Work From Indian Company

http://www.forbes.com/2007/03/21/ibm-india-idea-markets ...

Corporate US wants H-1B visa, green card rules eased

http://inhome.rediff.com/money/2007/apr/13visa.htm

Senators: Companies with "mass layoffs" shouldn't hire more foreign workers

http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2007/06/senators-c ...

Video raises concern about firms' H-1B abuses

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/0 ...

US body seeks amendments to increase H1B visa

http://www.zeenews.com/news385382.html

IBM lays off 450 in Systems and Technology

http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/1017402/ibm_lay ...

Clinton woos the outsourcers that workers fear

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jul/30/nation/na-buffa ...

13 US governors urge Congress to increase H1-B visa limit

http://www.rediff.com/money/2007/sep/13us.htm

H-1B Visa Foes Join To Pressure Congress On Green Card Reforms

http://www.informationweek.com/news/internet/showArticl ...

House Democrats Pushing To Revisit H-1B Visa, Green Card Reform This Year

http://www.informationweek.com/news/global-cio/showArti ...

Companies may have found a way around H-1B visa limits

http://www.infoworld.com/d/adventures-in-it/companies-m ...

TCS wins $120 mn deal from Chrysler (TATA)

http://infotech.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2798369.cms

H-1B visa shortage again

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/H-1B_visa_shortage_a ...

Indian firms snag most H1-B visas

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indian_firms_snag_mo ...

H-1 B: Two new bills to raise cap

http://infotech.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2873376.cms

Employers Prohibited From Filing Multiple H-1B Visa Petitions For Same Worker

http://www.informationweek.com/news/global-cio/showArti ...

Recession unlikely to curb H-1B demand

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

U.S. Hits Cap On H-1B Visa Petitions For Fiscal 2009

http://www.informationweek.com/news/global-cio/h1b/show ...

US senators question 9 IT firms over H1-B visas

http://www.business-standard.com/india/storypage.php?au ...

U.S. Overwhelmed By H-1B Visa Requests

http://www.informationweek.com/news/global-cio/h1b/show ...

'Brain gain' for India as elite return

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/20/india.globa ...

Peg H-1B visa cap at 115,000: US lawmakers

http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/apr/22visa.htm

H1-B claimants 'ordinary' workers, not geniuses: Report

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/H1-B_claimants_ordi ...

DOJ settles H-1B job ad case for $45,000

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Coca-Cola may outsource some Brandon jobs to India

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/economicdevelopme ...

With H-1B in limbo, Congressional backers push Green Card fix

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Outsourcing hitting UK IT professionals salaries hard: Report

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world-news/outsourc ...

Google loses big in H-1B lottery as Congress gets new visa push

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Boxer and Gregg Introduce Bill to Reverse High-Tech Brain Drain

Measure Would Help Keep International Talent in the U.S.

http://boxer.senate.gov/news/releases/record.cfm?id=298 ...

38% rise in Indian students going to US

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/38_rise_in_Indian_st ...

AFL-CIO says student visa extension hurts tech wages

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Immigration racket run by Indian busted in US

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1171545

US expects 40 per cent rise in visa applications

http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/jul/08visa.htm

TCS pink slip to techies with fudged CVs (TATA) (Lied on resumes)

http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/jul/14it.htm

Bailout won't keep Wall Street from sending jobs offshore

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

US likely to tighten H-1B visa program

http://www.itp.net/news/534051-us-likely-to-tighten-h-1 ...

Government Study Finds 21% Of H-1B Applications Violate Rules

http://www.informationweek.com/news/global-cio/h1b/show ...

Pfizer US job cuts help Indian techies (Dodd is aware of this)

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Infotech/Techies_fr ...

Outsourcing biggest concern for India post-Bush: Report

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Infotech/Outsourcin ...

Obama's DHS pick may find support for raising H-1B cap at confirmation hearing

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Microsoft to slash 5,000 jobs, misses on second-quarter profit

http://www.cedmagazine.com/Microsoft-slash-5000-jobs-Q2 ...

Senator questions, prods Microsoft on inclusion of H-1B workers in layoffs

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

US' stricter H-1B plan may hit Indian outsourcing firms

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Visa_Power/US_stric ...

Tech offshoring now raises union hackles

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News_by_Industry/Te ...

IBM to Open Two More Offshore Development Centers in India

http://www.informationweek.com/news/global-cio/outsourc ...

IBM Offers To Move Laid Off Workers To India

http://www.informationweek.com/news/global-cio/outsourc ...

Senate approves 'strict' rules on hiring H-1B workers

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Senate bill would bar H-1B hiring at firms receiving bailout money

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

AP Investigation: Banks sought foreign workers

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=6779317

Limits on H-1B hiring by bailout recipients still in economic stimulus bill

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Indians Involved in major US H1-B racket

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/US/Indians-inv ...

Fed indictments tell how H-1B visas were used to undercut wages

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Microsoft Guest Visa Use Will Stay Same Amid Job Cuts

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=afB ...

Indian outsourcers, Microsoft top the list of H-1B users in '08

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Microsoft to hire H-1B workers, even as it lays off some visa holders

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

JP Morgan told to explain India outsourcing plan

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News-By-Indust ...

Grassley, Durbin plan to renew H-1B fight in Senate

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

White House says U.S. needs H-1B visas to avoid 'competitive disadvantage'

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

H-1B bill seeks to 'staple' green cards to Ph.D.s

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Feds count H-1B applications as engineering unemployment spikes

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

US think tank wants H1B cap raised to 195,000

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/US-think-tank-wants ...

Five reasons why the H-1B cap will be increased, revised

http://blogs.computerworld.com/five_reasons_why_the_h_1 ...

H-1B visa use cuts U.S. programmer, software engineer wages by up to 6%

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Two U.S. senators say H-1B visas allow 'legal discrimination'

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Lawmakers Introduce H1-B Visa Reform Bill

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Management/Lawmakers-Introd ... /

Microsoft lays off 3,000 employees (yet still advertises for H-1B's)

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Jobs-Full/microsoft-W/Se ...

DHS secretary, asked about H-1B, says 'top obligation' is to U.S. workers

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

'Nasscom will not demand H-1Bs' (Wants "Service" Visas)

http://infotech.indiatimes.com/News/Nasscom-will-not-de ...

No cut in H-1B visas for Indians: US Consul-General

US+Consul-General&artid=eMjm%7CXtJmxs=&SectionID=e7uPP4%7CpSiw=&MainSectionID=e7uPP4%7CpSiw=&SectionName=EH8HilNJ2uYAot5nzqumeA==&SEO=GS%20Vasu,%20Ravikanth%20Reddy,%20H-1B%20visas,%20visa,%20policy" target="_blank">http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=No+ ...

Work Visa Bill Threatens Indian Outsourcers

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jun ...

Work Visas May Work Against the U.S.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/feb ...

No stemming the tide of good U.S. jobs going overseas

Corporations whine that H-1Bs are needed because of a shortage of
Americans with skills, but major studies at the University of
California Davis and Duke University conclusively prove we have
thousands of unemployed or underemployed Americans with all the needed
technical skills.

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/resources/publication ...

Senate bill gives Americans preference for tech jobs

http://news.cnet.com/Senate-bill-gives-Americans-prefer ...

Parsing the Truths About Visas for Tech Workers

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/15/business/yourmoney/15 ...

H-1B Answer: Innovation

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Government-IT/H1B-Answer-Innov ... /

Skilled American's Jobs May Be in Jeopardy Again

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/220331/skilled ...

To H-1B Or Not To H-1B?

http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?a ...

Beware the H-1B Visa

http://www.businessweek.com/debateroom/archives/2007/07 ...

The Unending H1B Saga

http://www.embedded.com/columns/embeddedpulse/201203171

Wanted: Foreign tech workers

http://money.cnn.com/2007/09/25/smbusiness/h1b_cap.fsb /...

Tension Growing Between Tech Groups Regarding Green Card Proposals

http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?a ...

The next wave of globalisation: Offshoring R&D to India and China

http://www.cio.co.uk/article/527/the-next-wave-of-globa ... /

India now denies their prior admission that they abuse H-1b by paying
way below market wages

http://programmersguild.blogspot.com/2007/05/india-now -...

Software group says that without more foreign workers in U.S., jobs
may go overseas

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

'US needs more H-1Bs'

http://infotech.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2740803.cms

State GOP official may have violated visa law

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/0 ...

Business group seeks more visas for high-tech workers

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2008/02/25/d ...

Gates to appear again before Congress on eve of H-1B visa rush

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

U.S. worried that high H-1B demand may tempt some to 'game' visa lottery

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Guess Who's Getting the Most Work Visas?

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_11/b407 ...

Senator describes black market in H-1B visas

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Bush Administration Pressured On H-1B Visa Reform

http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?a ...

U.S. Immigration changes selection process for H-1B visas

http://www.infoworld.com/t/tech-industry-analysis/us-im ...

H-1B backers seek White House help for foreign students

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Another Wave of H-1Bs on the Way

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/mar ...

Durbin wants info on use of visa programs

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=28804 ...

Who Got H-1B Visas Petitions Approved Last Year? Look At The List

http://www.informationweek.com/news/global-cio/showArti ...

Senators’ concern over H-1B visa

http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=131889

DHS to offer backdoor increase to H-1B visas?

http://www.infoworld.com/d/security-central/dhs-offer-b ...

Workers on visas easy to exploit

http://communicatinglabourrights.wordpress.com/2008/05 /... /

H-1B scandal: New study unmasks that Cisco and Microsoft NOT using
H-1B visas to recruit the best

http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/27421

H-1Bs: Still Not the Best and the Brightest

http://www.cis.org/articles/2008/back508.html

Debating H-1B visas: A ruse exposed

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion /...

Congress seeks alternative to H-1B visas

http://www.fiercecio.com/story/congress-seeks-alternati ...

How not to hire an American Worker

http://www.youtube.com/programmersguild

IT Job Destruction

http://www.eng-i.com/E-Newsletters.htm

iGate isn't only 'villain' hiring foreign high-tech workers

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cit ...

Tech trade group spent $455,835 to lobby in 1Q

http://www.lse.co.uk/internetNews.asp?ArticleCode=mb50x ...

Hold H-1B visa? Will get green card soon

http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/jun/12visa.htm

Report refutes claims of dire need for more H-1B visas

"The aggregate data concluded: "U.S. students have generally performed
above average in comparisons with students in other industrialized
nations."

As far as a shortage in computer science graduates to fill available
jobs in the United States the study concludes that "the education
system produces qualified graduates far in excess of demand."

Finally the reports concludes that, "assessing the claims of labor
market shortages is crucial. Purported labor market shortages for
scientists and engineers are anecdotal and also not supported by the
available evidence."

But this doesn't seem to stop the steady drumbeat from high tech
executives who keep saying over and over again that there is a
shortage both in qualified computer science graduates now and in the
pipeline in our schools to meet future needs."

http://www.infoworld.com/t/tech-industry-analysis/repor ...

Steep Penalty for Alleged H-1B Scammer

http://blogs.eweek.com/careers/content001/steep_penalty ...

The H1B Visa Sham

http://frontpagemagazine.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=314 ...

H-1B visas do not create new jobs

http://www.infoworld.com/t/tech-industry-analysis/h-1b -...

Why Bill Gates likes India

http://specials.rediff.com/money/2008/jun/27sd1.htm

TCS-Nielsen outsourcing deal in the eye of a storm (TATA) (Abuse here
with tax payer dollars, yet)

http://www.business-standard.com/india/storypage.php?au ...

A computer science professor's never-ending H-1B fight

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Judge rejects student visa injunction sought by H-1B opponents

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

HP lays off 25000 and runs phony job ads

http://www.idahovaluesalliance.com/news.asp?id=895

NJ company fined for violating H1-B visa program

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/09/iselin_company ...

H-1B foes try to prove student-visa extension hurts U.S. tech workers

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Are tech firms faking job ads to avoid hiring U.S. workers?

http://www.infoworld.com/d/windows/are-tech-firms-fakin ...

High Rate of H-1B Visa Fraud

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/oct ...

U.S. Sen. Grassley: Questions immigration agency about fraud

http://www.iowapolitics.com/index.iml?Article=138527

Pfizer Accused of Using U.S. Workers to Train Foreign Replacements

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Management/Pfizer-Accused-o ... /

Obama's choice for DHS could flame tech visa battle

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

H-1B Visa Reform Takes Shape to Address Fraud, Procedural Nightmares

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Infrastructure/H1B-Visa-Ref ... /

H-1B Visas to Get More Scrutiny

http://blogs.cioinsight.com/biztech30/content/it_career ...

Congress considering two worker's rights bills

http://www.nwprogressive.org/weblog/2009/01/congress-co ...

‘Americans first’ shadow on H-1B route

http://epaper.telegraphindia.com/TT/TT/2009/01/29/Artic ...

H-1B, offshoring supporters get key Obama Administration posts

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

The H-1B visa has got to go

http://www.infoworld.com/t/tech-industry-analysis/h-1b -...

No matter what Mulford says, H1B restrictions will soon be totally illegal

http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/20508.asp

Report finds fraud in 20% of H-1B applications

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/20087 ...

While Americans lose their homes, America offers fat stipends to
foreigners/H-1B's

http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/20501.asp

H-1B visa ban for bailed-out US firms irrational: Montek

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Business/Montek-hits ...

India firing foreign workers to give jobs to locals

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Indust ...

Crisis for tech workers: Life after layoffs?

http://www.infoworld.com/d/adventures-in-it/crisis-tech ...

As U.S. IT jobs are cut, H-1B use by offshoring vendors is rising

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Bank of America forced to withdraw job offers

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/2 ... /

Programmers Guild Calls for a U.S. Job Preservation Fee of $60,000 per H-1B visa

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2009/03/prweb2215804.htm

H-1B visa holders are paid less than US counterparts

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx ?...

H-1B visa not on bilateral agenda with US

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/4257878 ...

Indian IT Group Frets over H-1B Reforms

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Management/Indian-IT-Group -... /

US H-1B visa restrictions to end in two years

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News-By-Indust ...

Dallas ISD, area firms sought worker visas amid job losses

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestne ...

Visa program for skilled workers under attack

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/apr/01/business/fi-vis ...

Indian CEOs raise H-IB visa issue with Obama Administration

http://www.itexaminer.com/indian-ceos-raise-h-ib-visa-i ...

White House says U.S. needs H-1B visas to avoid 'competitive disadvantage'

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Info Tech Unemployment Tops 5%

http://www.informationweek.com/news/global-cio/trends/s ...

It's Time to Overhaul H-1B Visas

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_15/b412 ...

US doesn’t need outsourced jobs: Obama

http://infotech.indiatimes.com/News/US-doesnt-need-outs ...

India Inc. gets White House meeting on H-1B visas

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Labor groups seeking tighter limits on H-1B visas

http://www.nextgov.com/nextgov/ng_20090416_1957.php

US adopts "fraud" prevention in H-1B visa programmes

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/US-adopts-frau ...

IBM should reveal truth about engineering layoffs

http://www.eetindia.co.in/ART_8800571563_1800001_NT_1d7 ...

Bad time to be accused of H-1B visa fraud

http://blogs.zdnet.com/sommer/?p=477

Azim Premji (Wipro/Indian IT Co.) on the H-1B visa controversy

http://business.rediff.com/report/2009/may/29/wipro-azi ...

Budget woes could boost government offshoring

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

US: H-1B workers outnumber unemployed techies

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Analysis: If N.J. sees H-1B use driving down wages, will Congress?

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command= ...

Lawyers in a how-to video: as in how to avoid hiring an American

http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/16421




The Science Education Myth
Forget the conventional wisdom. U.S. schools are turning out more
capable science and engineering grads than the job market can support

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/oct2007/sb ...

Companies/H-1B Stats

http://www.h1bstats.com/visa /

TechCrunch Layoff Tracker

http://www.h1bstats.com/visa /

H-1B issues going to court

http://www.zazona.com/NewsArchive/2002-09-26%20H-1B%20i ...

New Awakening About Free Trade (H-1B's)

http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2007/apr07/07-04-18.ht ...

Study Says H-1Bs Aren't the Best or Brightest

http://blogs.eweek.com/careers/content001/h1b_foreign_w ...

Research finds US H1B visa holders paid less

http://www.workpermit.com/news/2005_10_26/us/us_h1b_vis ...

Study: There Is No Shortage of U.S. Engineers

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Management/Study-There-Is-N ... /

IT Job Destruction

http://www.jobdestruction.com/shameh1b /

No Jobs for India (US IT)

http://www.nojobsforindia.com /

A myth called the Indian programmer

http://community.ere.net/groups/team-india/discussions /... /

India now denies their prior admission that they abuse H-1b by paying
way below market wages

http://programmersguild.blogspot.com/2007/05/india-now -...

The Scams and Problems of H-1B Visas

http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Teachers/H1B.html

H-1Bs And the Triumph of Buypartisanship

http://www.credoaction.com/sirota/2007/10/h1bs_and_the_ ...

Look Into Their Eyes (People losing jobs from Outsourcing/H-1B's)

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/81/offshore_profile ...

Indian H-1B Forum

http://infotech.indiatimes.com/opinions/4118969.cms

Less number of US students coming to India for studies (India causing
Interference)

http://www.zeenews.com/news342876.html

India slips to No. 41 in innovation (Talent coming out of India isn't
the greatest)

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/Economy/Indica ...

Companies *Only* looking for H-1B's (Jobs Posted)

http://myvisajobs.com /

India is a place where George W. Bush will be missed

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&ca ...

Nielsen layoffs, tax breaks anger Oldsmar officials

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/article458509.ece

Company, officials indicted for fraud

http://www.clintonherald.com/local/local_story_04410100 ...

How our IT firms wrecked the HIB visa program

http://churumuri.wordpress.com/2007/04/09/how-our-it-fi ... /

Video on H-1B's and Globalization

http://www.iptv.org/video/detail.cfm/3135/ittv_20081220 ...

533,000 Jobs Lost in NOV -- But the Feds Imported Another 140,000
Foreign Workers the Same Month!

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/beckr/decemb ...

PERM Fake Job Ads defraud Americans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU

College enrollment in computer science, engineering on the rise (No shortage)

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2009-03-17-engineerin ...

Wipro (Indian IT Co) finds fewer than 25% of Indian grads employable

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20 ...

Florida food stamp jobs in India aggravate recipients, officials

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2009/apr/16/florida-food-sta ... /

Hyderabad, Bangalore: India's H-1B visa fraud hubs

http://www.rediff.com/money/2007/jul/04visa.htm

[treestar]

69. You are obsessed

good god. Do you have nothing else to live for?

[OhioChick]

70. My job is what feeds my kids, but you could give a rat's ass about that.

I wouldn't expect more coming from an immigration lawyer. :eyes:

[treestar]

77. You have a job?

I would think your job was taken by an Indian you had to train?

You are unemployed due to this, aren't you? You have no interest in any other issue and are obviously obsessed. These H-1bs are ruining your life. I notice you have no interest in immigration generally. Only H-1bs. Your obsession with them it pathological. You obviously feel they are ruining your life.

Immigration lawyer - I am not one but I tried to hire an alien once and learned it was nearly impossible and expensive and I could not hire the person I wanted. Proving the crap you post to be false. You have to send them your tax returns to prove you can pay the prevailing wage, and the person has to be a professional and there are quotas and limits galore, in short, they are a tiny part of the job market and almost no one can get one.

[OhioChick]

81. You're obsessed with gloablization and free trade...

Funny, your hero Dennis Kucinich isn't. Actually, the exact opposite. (Even with the H-1B workforce!)

If you haven't paid attention, unemployment in the US is high. People NEED jobs NOW. But hell, who cares about them, because you have YOURS, right? Thought so, you're a tool.

Educate yourself...

http://cohort11.americanobserver.net/latoyaegwuekwe/multimediafinal.html

[Tesha]

99. You haven't actually worked anywhere near one of the high-tech biggies, have you?

Where Mr. Tesha works, there are probably now more H1-B workers than
American workers. It wasn't always this way, but it sure is today.

Tesha

[Deja Q]

71. Maybe if quality jobs returned, she'd take it and stop making understandable gripes about the

state of the US economy and infrastructure.

Globalization needn't have lost a single American their job. The term itself suggests expansion. Not migration. (My sig line contains a google search concerning a very insipid fact. Especially when the corporate tell everyone Americans are uneducated... which doesn't explain why Americans train their own replacements, which then means the replacements are that less bright too. ;) Gotta love it. Not really, it's all a joke. I'd rather see better quality of life for all. Lincoln and Henry Ford are heroes of mine. They understood the value of labor.)

[ChromeFoundry]

72. hummm

If providing for your family is not enough to live for...

I get it, you have no one in your life that depends on you. Therefore, cannot understand the problems faced by this corporate nation. You see the world through the loopholes of the legal system. What a lonely, selfish life that must be. Good God, I'm sure glad I'm not you.

[treestar]

78. H-1bs prevent you from providing for your family?

And personal attacks are all you have?

You can't get a job because of H-1bs? You must present very poorly to employers, who would rather pay thousands to the government and to lawyers to pay the same wage to aliens. You must have a really bad attitude if you are otherwise qualified but employers would rather go to all the trouble of getting an H-1b than hire you.

What of the US citizens you are competing with? They are far, far more numerous than the H-1bs. Why do they get the job rather than you?

[ChromeFoundry]

82. Nope.. I have a fine job

Although you may be losing out on work if this bill goes through. A few more bills like this and you may be out of a job completely. I just think it's pathetic to look at this debate from your side of the fence. You obviously are clueless about the illegal representations of the so-called prevailing wages and distortion of job titles to manipulate the system for cheaper labor. It's pretty obvious you know nothing about the field except how to work through the legal loopholes.

[Thor_MN]

45. I trained the H1B Visa holder that replaced me.. Guess what? She made a lot less than I did.

I suppose she could have lied about what she was making, but she had no reason to do that. I told her what I was making so that she knew what she could be making. Prevailing wage is a joke, most IT jobs are so unique that you can simply state that the range is $35K to $70K and replace a $70K employee with someone that earns half the salary. Even if you have 10 people working on the same project, you can claim that each one is specialized in some way that makes their wage distinct from the 9 others that are doing the exact same thing.

[Keno76]

46. She may be getting paid less......

She may be getting paid less than you but I can guarantee her H1-b sponsor is billing your company the same if not more than your salary. Your company is not saving any more money by hiring an H1-b, I can tell you that for sure.

[Grateful for Hope]

48. That is probably true,

But, there are no benefits included in the overall payment for the contractor. This is a big hunk of change, and, the figures associated with benefits are always figured into an employee's overall salary.

[Keno76]

56. Our company pays benefits for our H1-b employees

Our company pays benefits for our H1-b employees but most companies don't

[kpominville]

53. If that were true, there would be no reason to do it.

The fact that companies are hiring so many H1B workers shows that there IS a financial benefit to them for doing so. The only other possible reason would be that they just hate American workers and don't want to hire them and that makes far less sense than simple monetary gain.

[Keno76]

57. No,

The reason why is because most of those high level jobs are not being filled by qualified Americans. Not too many Java Architects out there that are American.

[OhioChick]

59. Not true...

For christ sakes, Java isn't that much different than C++!
I know of many US Java Architects AND developers that trained their H-1B replacements.

[Keno76]

61. Are you in the industry? Didn't think so

I just did a search for high level Java Architects today and the first page was nothing but foreigners. Not one American. These high level programmer jobs wouldn't be opened for so long if there were plenty of qualified Americans. Unfortunately, there are not enough QUALIFIED americans to fill these jobs.

[OhioChick]

62. I am in the industy and I call BS. n/t

[Keno76]

65. What do you do in the industry? Are you just a programmer?

[OhioChick]

66. That's really none of your business. n/t

[Keno76]

83. Figured that would be your reply!!

If you are not in the business of placing high level programmers every day like me I seriously doubt you would have any insight whatsoever into the type of talent that exists out there. Your just another typical Arm-Chair Quarterback thinking you know what's out there.

[OhioChick]

87. I figured you'd be just another annoying recruiter. n/t

[Keno76]

88. A recruiter that sure knows alot more than you do about what's going on in the market !!

Way to give your 2 cents about something you know absolutely nothing about!!

[Deja Q]

73. See my sig line for more, but Americans are tired of being ill-treated with this chicanery.

I sure as hell have lost all enthusiasm for IT.

And if you looked beyond your bias, it is about cost. Not value or quality.

Even bankers bleat that capping their salaries would have them moving out of the business (like their fucking up everything isn't bad enough before giving themselves bonuses for doing so). If they can bleat about salary caps, so the hell can the rest of us.

Some job descriptions want a list of qualifications so long, it;'s impossible for any human to fill it. Particularly if a requirement is for an application that is so new, having x years' experience is chronologically impossible. And shit like that is pulled too.

Oh, welcome to DU.

[Keno76]

84. No bias here brother!!

Trust me if I could fill these high level tech jobs with Americans I would. But the TALENT IS NOT OUT THERE!!! That is why we have to hire these H-b's.

[ChromeFoundry]

76. funny...

I just did a search for Senior-Level and higher Java Experts in the 'depressed' Cleveland, that has endured substantial and sustained brain-drain over the past eight years. I found 135... SO basically, you are full of shit.

[Keno76]

85. What job board are you using?

And what search string are you using?

I call BS.

[ChromeFoundry]

86. Your basis of assumption is on how many people

post their resumes on a public job-board? So scientific :sarcasm:

Uh, yeah... FYI- most people that are the least bit technically competent would not want that amount of SPAM.!

Here, I will give you a link that will allow you to find the exact number of JAVA professionals in the Cleveland area. All it takes is one email.

http://www.clevelandjava.org/contact.html
also
http://www.meetup.com/cleveland-java/about/

I expect you to retract your BS call when you receive your response...

[Keno76]

89. LOL, SPAM?

The last thing on an unemployed desperate Americans mind is SPAM!! LOL And most people that don't want to get spammed on a job board post their resume confidentially!

Those links show nothing. Again, What job board are you using that shows how many out of work Java Developers are mostly Americans?

[mopinko]

91. dh is a systems architect, and says you are full of it.

c++ and java are about as related as jet engine repair and chevy repair. there really are not that many us students studying java. just is.

[ChromeFoundry]

92. I beg to differ... ohiochick is spot on

First off.. a Systems Architect deals with mainly hardware and platform systems at a high-level. The architect sub-allocates the system requirements to major components or subsystems that are within the scope of a single hardware or software engineer, or engineering manager and team. But the architect never is viewed as an engineering supervisor. Not a lot of software development going on in that arena, short of an occasional maintenance script. If he is doing more development than that, he has the wrong title. So, I'd have to say your DH's skills are kind of in a questionable area here.

Maybe he thought you said JavaScript. If not, help him educate himself so he doesn't walk out of

Yes Java and C++ are very similar languages... especially when you are talking about Managed C++ in the .Net Framework. They both have their "framework" of libraries, bundling their methods and properties into common classes, and the syntax is next to identical.

Sun Microsystems: "Java is a high-level programming language developed by Sun Microsystems. Java was originally called OAK, and was designed for handheld devices and set-top boxes. Oak was unsuccessful so in 1995 Sun changed the name to Java and modified the language to take advantage of the burgeoning World Wide Web.
Java is an object-oriented language similar to C++, but simplified to eliminate language features that cause common programming errors."

From Wikipedia: "Java syntax borrows heavily from C and C++ but it eliminates certain low-level constructs such as pointers and has a very simple memory model where every object is allocated on the heap and all variables of object types are references."

A jet engine has turbines and a chevy has pistons... Java and C++ would be better compared as C++ being a Ferrari and Java being the Ferrari-like vehicle, dragging behind it a trailer, a boat, a garbage truck, a traffic cop and a whole slew of other single purpose entities, where C++ would assume that you manage your own destiny.

Even closer of a comparison language, is C# in the .Net environment. The both derived from C/C++ syntax... the both operate in a virtual machine... They are both compiled to a psudo-code binary library that executes in a protected memory space along with their library of functions.

But hey, thanks for going out of your way to post on a topic, that you know nothing about, in an attempt to belittle someone that I know has over 15 years experience in the field... I'm guessing you must have an axe to grind, too.

Here is the same method in all of the above languages, pretty similar:
// c++
WORDHDL AddHandle(const string& aWord)
{
int rc = GetHandle(aWord);
if( rc != -1 )
return rc;

myWordsLookup = myWords.size();
myWords.push_back(aWord);
return myWords.size()-1;
}

// Java
public int AddHandle(String aWord)
{
int rc = GetHandle(aWord);
if( rc != -1 )
return rc;

myWordsLookup.put(aWord,new Integer(myWords.size()));
myWords.add(aWord);
return myWords.size()-1;
}

// C#
public int AddHandle(string aWord)
{
int rc = GetHandle(aWord);
if( rc != -1 )
return rc;

myWordsLookup = myWords.Count;
myWords.Add(aWord);
return myWords.Count - 1;
}

// Managed C++
WORDHDL AddHandle(String *aWord)
{
WORDHDL rc = GetHandle(aWord);
if( rc != -1 )
return rc;

myWordsLookup->set_Item(aWord, __box ( myWords->get_Count() ));
myWords->Add(aWord);
return myWords->get_Count()-1;
}

[mopinko]

94. dude, dh has been a

presenter at java one twice. he has sun engineers on his speed dial. i think he knows what he is talking about.
you, on the other hand, have no idea what his experience is, or who he works for, and what he has done. he has been in the business for 30 years.

[ChromeFoundry]

97. dudette... B F D

Either back your shit up, or flush.
I have Microsoft engineers that have me on their speed-dial... still doesn't make me a genius. No, I don't know your husband's background... but if he truly was a presenter at JavaOne for two years in a row, and makes statements like you posted... I'm glad I stopped wasting money on that conference years ago.

[mopinko]

100. whatever. i didn't call your mother a whore, so stop acting like it.

it's a discussion board. i put in 2 cents. whatever.
i am always careful when i post things that DH tells me about this stuff, because he works for a high profile company that doesn't like pissing contests. so, take what i posted for what it is worth. that is all we have to say. readers are perfectly free to believe it or not. i couldn't possibly care less.

[OhioChick]

95. Thanks Chrome...

Don't you just love all the so-called experts that can't even provide a link or explanation......only to say that they're "the best?"

:rofl:

[ChromeFoundry]

96. Didn't you know...

...everyone on here IS, or knows someone that is the 'best' in everything. Somehow that makes them an expert through osmosis. I'm not going to try and debate a floor tile.

Funny how he cannot even provide her with a few sentences or a few lines of code to prove her point, and at least let her appear like she has half an argument to stand on.

[Thor_MN]

67. I was there as a consultant.

I made a fraction of what my company billed them. The company saved a ton of money by hiring the H1-b, but from what I heard from the people I used to work with, she was a disaster and didn't last a year.

What do I get for the failure of your guarantee?

[Juche]

50. Supposed to be paid the same and are paid the same are different

http://www.workpermit.com/news/2005_10_26/us/us_h1b_visa_holders_earn_less.htm

Nonetheless, Miano's report shows that wages paid to H-1B workers in computer programming occupations had a mean salary of $52,312, while the OES mean was $67,700; a difference of $15,388. The report also lists the OES median salary as $65,003, or $12,691 higher than the H-1B median.

When you look at computer job titles by state, California has one of the biggest differentials between OES salaries and H-1B salaries. The average salary for a programmer in California is $73,960, according to the OES. The average salary paid to an H-1B visa worker for the same job is $53,387; a difference of $20,573.

Here are some other interesting national wage comparisons: The mean salary of an H-1B computer scientist is $78,169, versus $90,146 according to the OES. For an H-1B network analyst, the mean salary is $55,358, versus the OES mean salary of $64,799. And for the title "system administrator," there was a $17,478 difference in salary between the H-1B mean and the OES mean.

H-1B visa workers were also concentrated at the bottom end of the wage scale, with the majority of H-1B visa workers in the 10-24 percentile range. "That means the largest concentration of H-1B workers make less than highest 75 percent of the U.S. wage earners," the report notes.

[kpominville]

52. Sorry - You are wrong

Unfortunately I know first hand that these Indian workers are being hired for MUCH less than the laid off American workers were getting. Usually almost half of what the Americans were making. I used to know of 9 Indian workers who shared a 3-bedroom apartment because that was the only way they could afford the rent.

[Keno76]

58. Maybe that's the case for entry level Indian programmers

Maybe that's the case for entry level Indian programmers that just came into the country but I can tell you first hand that these high level Indian guys are asking for top dollar.

[treestar]

80. they are aware of this, they just are apparently so unemployable

they could not land a job even in 2000 and the years when unemployment for professionals was practically nil, and they found the H-1bs to be scapegoats. Not even illegal aliens, legal ones!

At least Lou Dobbs blames the illegals who really do undercut wages.

But facts do not move these people. They are looking to blame someone else for the fact no one wants to hire them. Imagine the employer who wants to go to the trouble to get an H1b rather than hire them! And has to pay the prevailing wage, which is not enforceable against U.S. citizens! And they could not apparently get a job in the late 90s and early 2000s when there was 4% unemployment!

[Deja Q]

25. How many are not?

Why do companies prefer to subsidize or give education to those abroad and not here?

Hell, showing one has all the knowledge, one can't get a job because of "lack of experience" and the same people don't see volunteer database administration in a church as quite the same thing...


No, it isn't as simple as some people make it out to be.

[Spider Jerusalem]

34. Maybe because other countries produce more university graduates with technical degrees?

Hint: it's not because they can get away with paying them less (the law stipulates the prevailing wage for the occupation is to be paid to visa holders, and that they can't be paid less than American citizens employed in equivalent jobs).

[Larkspur]

43. I'm one of those qualified American IT workers who was laid off

I was laid off in November last year after working there for almost 13 years. My duties were originally given over to an H-1B visa holder from India. I don't blame the H-1B visa holder for my layoff. He's a low man on the totem poll like I was. I blame the corporate execs, who recently received their million dollar bonuses, for the decision that turned out to be a very bad one for the business group I once supported. On July 20, 2009, the business group hired me back as a contractor to do the job I once did for them because the Systems Group, where I once worked and where the H-1B visa contractor works, screwed up the environment I once supported. A couple weeks ago, I finally got the environment temporarily fixed for the business group and the business group is very happy. Now the next step is to complete the final upgrade to the environment I was working on when I got laid off.

[Deja Q]

74. You went back to them?!

Did you get more money as a contractor?

[murdoch]

49. Please...

I can't count how many times I have seen, or have been involved in, IT work where the smallest differences cost someone from gaining employment. Never mind someone who knows C++ trying to get a job that requires Java, it is more like people who have been working on a Java framework different than that of the company they're interviewing for. Or knowing Solaris Unix and not Linux Unix. Or working on a different kind of firewall than the company has.

These are all things that require a minimum of training. If you've worked with a software version control system, you can get up to speed on how to use another one very quickly.

You're talking as if this means factory workers are walking straight into a job as a programmer. Companies are cutting divisions left and right, and there are very few jobs out there. Companies don't want H1Bs for skills, they want them because they are more able to manipulate them and because they can be paid less.

[kpominville]

51. There are a LOT of qualified Americans

I have personally witnessed as one of the largest manufacturing companies in America laid off thousands of American IT workers and replaced them with a larger number of far less experienced but much cheaper workers from India. The layoffs were done with the excuse that they didn't need that many employees because of a downturn in business but they went and hired a larger numbers of people from India to replace them.

Its always all about cheap labor.

[sendero]

55. Yes it is..

... because many of the H1-B folks are totally unqualified.

[treestar]

79. There is a special form of xenophobia called H-1bophobia

It assumes the U.S. constructions workers can take professional jobs and that they would appreciate the professionals be in another country rather than here to use their services.

They want to stop the brain drain and turn us into another third world country, just all white.

[harry_pothead]

22. K&R

YES!

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Larkspur]

44. This may explain why the H-1B contractor who took over my duties

when I was laid off last year is returning to India by end of January 2010. Found out Friday that he was going back to India. He's a contractor, not the company's India employee, and the company may be chucking their India contractors in favor of fulltime India employees.

[Keno76]

47. They had to go back because

They had to go back to India because most likely their visa expired.

[Yavin4]

90. If It's Really About "Quality" Workers, Then Why Just India?

Aren't there other nations on this planet that graduate a high number of techs? What about European nations? I know several top Russian ITers. Why aren't they filling up the H1B visa quotas? Or Swedish techs? Or Japanese techs? Why just India?

The answer is 50:1. That's the Rupee to USD exchange rate. That's why. It's got nothing to do with quality and everything to do with costs.