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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 04:30 AM
Original message
Obama: Too much debt could fuel double-dip recession
Source: Reuters

President Barack Obama gave his sternest warning yet about the need to contain rising U.S. deficits, saying on Wednesday that if government debt were to pile up too much, it could lead to a double-dip recession.

With the U.S. unemployment rate at 10.2 percent, Obama told Fox News his administration faces a delicate balance of trying to boost the economy and spur job creation while putting the economy on a path toward long-term deficit reduction.

His administration was considering ways to accelerate economic growth, with tax measures among the options to give companies incentives to hire, Obama said in the interview with Fox conducted in Beijing during his nine-day trip to Asia.

"It is important though to recognize if we keep on adding to the debt, even in the midst of this recovery, that at some point, people could lose confidence in the U.S. economy in a way that could actually lead to a double-dip recession," he said.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/wtUSInvestingNews/idUSN188108620091118



This should prove interesting fodder for a certain set of economists....
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 04:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. A strange phenomena. Then: "The Government isn't strong enough to effect the Macro-Economy.
Now: The Government has f**ked the Economy in the ear!



China holds US bonds. About 800 billion. Not that f**king much considering our assets.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. This line is also curious:
"His administration was considering ways to accelerate economic growth, with tax measures among the options to give companies incentives to hire..."

So, the revenue side of the equation doesn't affect deficits?

:shrug:

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SergeStorms Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
3. I guess that depends on what.........
his definition of "too much debt" is.

Many would say we've already crossed that line.

Undoubtedly this is Bush's legacy, but Obama needs to do a better job of restraining spending as well. A 30% cut in defense spending would be a great start. :)
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. double dip recession? Who writes this shit? The"Ministry of Truth" needs new talent
Edited on Thu Nov-19-09 07:52 AM by shadowknows69
Double Dip Recession = Depression, or some delicious, but expensive, new ice cream flavor.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Double Dip recession is not a depression.
Q4 2008 = -GDP
Q1 2009 = -GDP
Q2 2009 = -GDP
Q3 2009 = +GDP (recession ends)
Q4 2009 = +GDP
Q1 2010 = -GDP (second dip in double dip)
Q2 2010 = -GDP
Q3 2010 = +GDP (double dip recession finally ends)

Technically there is no such thing as a double dip recession it is simply 2 recession seperates by a very short period of economic growth however it will "feel" like one long recession.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. As I said: "Newspeak"
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valleywine Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
5. The 600+ BILLION $ military budget passed easily in congress and
signed by the WH! And it is NOT 'pay as you go" (but health care is!!)
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. I know, right?
Do we really need a dozen aircraft carriers? It isn't like we're going to get attacked by the Zombie Soviet Union.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
6. Given EVERYTHING ELSE going on in the economy...
...he honestly thinks adding to the deficit is going to meaningfully affect peoples' confidence in the economy?

When they've lost their job, and are being foreclosed upon, and have no money for a chronic health problem they're uninsured for, they give a rat's ass about the deficit??
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ej510 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Obama isn't very liberal he is a centrist who leans left.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Doesn't lean very far.
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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. For a guy who is all form and no substance, he isn't much of anything...
But if one had to define him with a one/two word description, the most accurate would be "corporate whore" or "weak". He's a basically a speech-giver who lied his way into the presidency by promising that he would try to change things, and as soon as he was elected he did the exact opposite. He's a "status-quo" servant of the plutocracy and the corps. He's a sell-out.

So I don't really see him as a conservative, a centrist, or a liberal. I see him as nothing... as a man without an ideology, or any of the passion that goes with it (except, of course, for the faux passion that is written into his speeches). He'll morph into whatever he needs to be to serve his interests. Like everyone else here, I voted for him, but I never had any illusions that he wasn't a lightweight.
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Luciferous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. +1
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. And would be fined 50% of one year's premiums because they can't afford the insurance
(Well, in 2013 or when the "reformed" health insurance system takes effect, if they still don't have middle class-worthy jobs...)
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Bleacher Creature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
10. This is wrong and he knows better.
We went into a second slide during the Great Depression because FDR and the Congressional Democrats got skittish on the deficit and decided to cut spending and raise taxes. The removal of liquidity from the economy made things considerably worse. There may be time to reduce the deficit and the national debt in the future, but that time is certainly not now (or anytime soon).
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Here it comes:
Back in 1993, James Carville — frustrated over the way fear of rising interest rates was crimping the Clinton agenda — declared,

I used to think if there was reincarnation, I wanted to come back as the president or the pope or a .400 baseball hitter. But now I want to come back as the bond market. You can intimidate everybody.


Right now, however, the bond market seems notably unworried by deficits. Long-term interest rates are low; inflation expectations are contained (too well contained, actually, since higher expected inflation would be helpful). No problem, right?

Alas, I’m getting the sense that the Obama administration is intimidated all the same. We’ve got the president telling Fox News that he’s worried about a double-dip recession if he doesn’t reduce the deficit soon — as opposed to the concern I and other have that he’ll have a double dip if he doesn’t provide more support. (And why is Obama talking to Fox News, btw?) And the buzz is that admin economic officials are telling him that the bond market needs to be appeased, even though rates are low.

This is truly amazing. It’s one thing to be intimidated by bond market vigilantes. It’s another to be intimidated by the fear that bond market vigilantes might show up one of these days, even though you’re currently able to sell long-term bonds at an interest rate of less than 3.5%.

Yet that, according to rumors, is what’s happening.

Let’s hope the rumors are false. For we really need to be doing more about employment — and the debt outlook isn’t that dire, at least by comparison with past experience in advanced countries:



It would be a very, very bad thing if the administration is intimidated into passivity in the face of an employment disaster — or, worse, into neo-Hooverism — by the threat from invisible, and probably imaginary, enforcers.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Oops forgot the Krugman link to the above:
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. dupe
Edited on Thu Nov-19-09 07:01 PM by depakid
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TomCADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
16. * Yawn * Much ado about nothing...
President Obama has also said that we should be careful about pulling the plug on stimulus as soon as we see some signs of recovery, otherwise that would trigger a recession.

I think the point that he is making is that when the economy is recovering, inflation will start to creep back up. At that time, it makes sense to start pulling back on stimulus otherwise you will fuel inflation, which will kill the recovery.

HOWEVER, right now, there is no sign of inflation, because the recovery is not fully underway. So, don't worry about it.
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uberblonde Donating Member (993 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
17. It's odd...
That almost $7 trillion over ten years for Afghanistan is off in a corner somewhere, with no effect whatsoever on the budget.

Funny, that.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
18. So now we know what the H in BHO REALLY stands for: Hoover.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Another take might be that he's reassuring our creditors overseas
that he's not the profligate and wasteful spender that the likes of Fox "news" makes him out to be.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. How many folks overseas watch FOXnews? More to the point, how many take it seriously?
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Is Obama the New, Democratic Version of President Herbert Hoover?
By: fflambeau Friday November 13, 2009 10:14 pm


Grim news from earlier this month shows that the official unemployment number is now 10.2% and that the far more accurate underemployment number is at 17.5%. Economist David Rosenberg (who correctly forecast the mortgage problem way back in 2004) sees unemployment numbers going to 12 or 13%. Moreover, a record 5.6 million people have been unemployed for over 6 months, notes Rosenberg, with more than 9 million Americans working part-time because no full-time jobs are available. In past recessions, says Rosenberg, the number of part-time workers has rarely got much above 6 million.

What’s the Obama administration’s plan for job creation? Not much as Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman observes:

"We don’t really have a jobs policy, we have a G.D.P. policy. …we need to start doing something more than, and different from, what we’re already doing. And the experience of other countries suggests that it’s time for a policy that explicitly and directly targets job creation."

But Krugman, along with another winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics, Joe Stiglitz, correctly predicted that the Obama economic stimulus plan was too little, too late. Obama would rather listen to losers like Larry Summers who was dismissed from the Presidency of Harvard because he couldn’t run the largely self-running university. Or to Timothy Geithner, whom W. appointed to the New York Fed Presidency and who helped usher in this economic nightmare. In this sense, Obama is looking less and less like the president he admires so much (Lincoln) and more and more like Herbert Hoover. Obama’s even beginning to sound like Hoover.

A few days ago after the horrible unemployment figures came out for October, Obama announced his administration’s plan. He is going to call for a White House summit on unemployment. The summit will be held next month, the administration announced, as Obama himself was off to Japan. Now that’s really decisive leadership!

More than a year has elapsed since Obama was elected in a campaign that largely hinged on the greatest economic crisis the nation has faced since the 1930’s and other than a largely ineffective and inadequate stimulus plan, Obama has done virtually nothing to address the single most important issue that put him in office. Moreover, when describing the forthcoming White House summit, he used these words:

"We all know there are limits to what government can and should do even during such difficult times."

It’s true that he followed this up with some words about the need for job creation but this statement could have been written and delivered by Herbert Hoover. The plain truth is that Obama has been focused on the wrong model (Lincoln) while he should be looking at FDR. Instead, he’s coming off as Hoover to whom he bears lots of similarities. After all, both men were highly educated: Obama with a law degree from Harvard, Hoover with an engineering degree from Stanford. Both men share a cautious, timid approach to government. Both men failed to chose the best people available to be their advisors.

Obama has frequently said that he admires Ronald Reagan, a latter day disciple of Hooverism. But Hoover was a captive to the ideology of his party in the late 20’s and 30’s and was the first modern president to face a major economic downturn. Obama has no such excuses since his own party has plenty of voices for job creation, plenty of economic brainpower to provide the plans, and even the historical precedent of Hoover’s failed policies. But if you "look forward not backward" you miss a lot not only in the law but also in economics and history.

What will be interesting to see in the coming weeks is whether the Democratic Party begins to realize that its stranglehold on power could be swept away in a tidal wave of voter angst in 2010 unless the party comes up with a solution to the economic-unemployment problem. It’s clear that Obama is clueless about the economy and sees its problems largely from a Wall Street-banking industry perspective. Those are the two Obama sectors that received immediate and massive federal aid from Obama WITHOUT having the "need" for a summit. But they are not traditional constituencies of the Democratic Party and it is clear that organized labor’s patience with Obama is beginning to wear thin.

The base of the Democratic Party, especially those of progressives and liberals, must begin to demand changes in both Obama’s plans and his economic team. Getting rid of the ineffective duo of Summers and Geithner would be a great place to start. Putting into effect a massive jobs program (with public works at its heart) would be the logical second step.

If the Democratic Party faces voters in 2010 with unemployment over 10%, it is likely to lose the House, seats in the Senate, and many key governorships. Nor do they have much time to act since any changes will take time to kick in. So,the scheduling of a summit a month from now while the President dallies with photo ops with the Emperor and Empress of Japan looks especially foolish.

FDR understood something that Hoover and Obama do not: to attack a massive problem requires massive measures. If Obama and the Democrats fail to act quickly on this, the most serious problem facing the country, they will go the way of Hoover and they will deserve their rendevous with destiny.

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/14635
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-21-09 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. Cool does that mean we can start building our own Obamavilles?
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
20. Translation: Our Chinese creditors have us by the balls.
:scared:
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