Senate Health Plan Seeks to Add Coverage to 31 Million

[TomCADem]

Source: NY Times

WASHINGTON — Democratic leaders in the Senate on Wednesday unveiled their proposal for overhauling the health care system, outlining legislation that they said would cover most of the uninsured while reducing the federal budget deficit.

Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the majority leader, said at an evening news conference that the legislation, embodying President Obama’s signature domestic initiative, would impose new regulations on insurers, extend coverage to 31 million people who currently do not have any and add new benefits to Medicare.

Mr. Reid said the bill, despite a price tag of $848 billion over 10 years, would reduce projected budget deficits by $130 billion over a decade because the costs would be more than offset by new taxes and fees and by reductions in the growth of Medicare.

Democrats expressed confidence that they would have the votes needed to move forward when the legislation hits its first test in the Senate, probably later this week. To get past that first procedural hurdle, Mr. Reid will need the votes of all 58 Democratic senators and the two independents aligned with them.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/19/health/policy/19health.html?_r=1&hp

[New Dawn]

1. "Individual Mandate" = Fascism

The so-called "public option" will only cover a tiny percentage of the population. That means that most people will be forced to buy low-coverage, "health insurance" from private, for-profit companies. That is fascist economics. And once this becomes mandatory for all adults, there will be nothing stopping the "health insurance" vampires from increasing their prices.

[TomCADem]

22. You Really Need To Stop With The Fox News Talking Points

When you are repeating Sean Hannity's health care reform is facism talking points, you need to re-evaluate your argument.

[New Dawn]

34. You need to stop promoting right-wing legislation.

And its no surprise to me that you are familiar with Fox News. I don't watch that.

http://dailycensored.com/2009/11/01/failure-by-design-the-public-option/

[New Dawn]

41. BTW, what is your defense of the anti-women Stupak Amendment?

http://blogs.jta.org/politics/article/2009/11/18/1009292/reform-movement-dont-include-stupak-amendment-in-senate-bill

[valleywine]

2. The proposed tax on “Cadillac health plans” is among the most contentious provisions of the bill.

........Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. and Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, both former senators, were on Capitol Hill, trying to help Mr. Reid round up votes.

The proposed tax on “Cadillac health plans” is among the most contentious provisions of the bill.

Under the Finance Committee bill, the government would have levied a 40 percent tax on the value of insurance exceeding $8,000 for individual coverage and $21,000 for family coverage, with some exceptions.

Under Mr. Reid’s bill, the tax would kick in at higher thresholds, $8,500 for individuals and $23,000 for families.

[karynnj]

3. I would assume that with the increase to $23,000, most of the union disagreement with it

should disappear. When it was first brought up, it had a $25,000 limit and John Kerry had worked with the unions to get their agreement not to oppose it. Baucus pushed the limit down to $21,000 (and I think it was even lower at one point). At several points in the Finance Committee hearings Kerry, backed by Stabanow, brought up the need to raise that limit.

The fact is that provision will mostly hit people who have real Cadillac plans. They are getting a huge tax break now - the entire cost of that plan is a tax break to their employer. The fact is that many of the rest of us use taxed money for some or all of our co-pays and other medical expenses, that do not exist on this plan. This is primarily a tax break for the wealthy.

[TomCADem]

23. Wow! I Have A Cafeteria Plan and $25,000 Is Above The Most Expensive Of...

five offerings I have to choose from, which include HMOs (cheapest) all the way up to a PPO with fairly low deductibles and the ability to go in network or out of network doctors. It makes me wonder about the employers who are leaving their employees with no choice but to choose a $25K plan. Many folks do not even make $25K.

[autorank]

4. Reid: Finish line on health care overhaul 'is finally in sight'

Source: McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON — Senate Democratic leaders Wednesday unveiled a sweeping $849 billion plan to overhaul the nation's health care system, a proposal likely to trigger an epic Senate battle over how consumers will buy and maintain coverage.

The Senate could vote as early as Saturday to begin debate on the measure, which the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates should shave $127 billion from the federal deficit over the next 10 years, the biggest projected savings of any major health care bill thus far.

The legislation would require most people to obtain insurance and create a government-run insurance plan, or public option, starting in 2014, in states could choose to not participate.

It would bar insurers from denying coverage because of pre-existing conditions and set up exchanges, or marketplaces, where consumers could easily compare coverage and rates, and provide federal help for lower-income people to obtain policies.

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/79136.html?mi_pluck_action=comment_submitted&qwxq=4522467#Comments_Container

---

Harry Reid has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory so many times, he's turned it into an art form. He's never met a cause he can't undo. But in this case the "finish line" is really the embalmers studio for this lifeless health "reform" absurdity. From 10% to 40% of health care premiums are consumed by insurance company rake-offs. That's enshrined in this bill, the incumbents are retained. The insurance giants are saved. The people are left behind. Consider the case of the not so public option (From Daily Censored http://tinyurl.com/ycv4s8x ). Congress doesn't care. They don't have to.

[ihavenobias]

5. Thanks for the link. n/t

[autorank]

6. No prob Bob

My insurance bill (self employed) just went up about 25%. I buy out of state (pre-existing conditions require this) from a highly regulated state. I can't imagine what's happening elsewhere. It's a crime.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Well I got the senate committee call begging for money

and I told them, don't ask until you get the bill.

But we got the house....

I watch C-SPAN this is not the sole sum of it... lets just say the staffer was pissed that somebody actually knows the score.

But, but we give money to (list usual suspects) instead of the corp....

I wanted to explode about why these special interests SHOULD NOT even have a voice.... I ended up hanging the phone.

So lets see if Harry can break his usual record...

[pecwae]

8. "Congress doesn't care. They don't have to. "

That can't be restated often enough.

[formercia]

9. There ought to be a rule

that to qualify to serve in Congress, one must live as a homeless person for at least a year with no outside income.

Things would change very quickly.

[Me.]

10. These People Wear Me Out

Such a farce

[steven johnson]

11. At 2,074 pages and $849 billion, Senate health bill arrives

Source: cnn

Washington (CNN) -- Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid on Wednesday unveiled a sweeping health care bill that would expand health insurance coverage to 30 million more Americans at an estimated cost of $849 billion over 10 years.

Reid and other Senate Democrats cited an analysis by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office for the coverage and cost figures. The CBO estimates the proposal would reduce the federal deficit by $130 billion over the next 10 years, through 2019. Any effect on the deficit in the following decade would be "subject to substantial uncertainty," but probably would result in "small reductions in federal budget deficits," according to the CBO.

The proposal drafted from two separate bills approved by Senate committees now goes to the full Senate, where Republicans have vowed to try to block it.

Reid, D-Nevada, needs to round up 60 votes in the 100-member Senate to overcome a certain GOP filibuster attempt and open the chamber's debate on the bill. It would take another 60 votes to close debate, while final approval of the bill would require only a simple majority.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/19/health.care.bill/

---

Now comes the end game. Game on!

[zbdent]

12. the Repugs were ready in any case ...

"Look at the size of that thing! It's too big, and it's filled with pork!"

if it were 10 page long ...

"It's so vague that it will result in massive amounts of fraud!"

[Blandocyte]

13. Welcome, bouncing baby bill!

Cue the famous Schoolhouse Rock song about the bill on Capitol Hill

[rasputin1952]

14. For Pete's sake, what is this...

War & Peace and the Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire rolled into one?

A simple foolproof bill...everyone gets covered, no exceptions, regardless of current or future "problems".

KISS...Keep It Simple Stupid!

[shadowknows69]

15. You have to keep enough people without health care

So some of them will eventually have to join the military to get it for their families.

[rasputin1952]

16. Interesting thing about the military...

health care in the military, and certainly the VA, is essentially a socialized form or medical care...:D

Most of the people I served with never considered health care when the signed on the dotted line. There were many other motivators for joining, but the two that never really entered the equation were money and health care...;)

Edited: dumb typo's ...:blush:

[shadowknows69]

18. I don't know when your service was, and thank you for it BTW, but now...

I think the "economic draft" is in full force in this country. When I was talking to troops many did say they just came for the $40K signing bonus. Already had their SUV's picked out if they survived to collect it. Guys still under the delusion they would be able to leave after their 2-4 years.

[rasputin1952]

21. Bonuses have helped recruitment, as well as the new GI Bill...

and other things, there's no doubt about that.

Economics does have a lot to do w/recruitment, but not as much as other things...there is still a hefty dose of "My country needs me" and the like. Skills are also learned, (although there is little call for Combat Arms MOS's in the real world).

And you are correct about the 2-4 years, there is a minimum of a 6 year commitment, w/at least 2 active, but subject to callup for 4 years after that...and beyond in a National Emergency. One literally signs their life away to the government when they enlist.

:patriot:


BTW: I was a Medical Plt Sgt, spent active for many years/Guard for more, and I know war is hell.

[Roland99]

17. HR 676 (Medicare for All) is only 30 pages

http://www.pnhp.org/docs/nhi_bill_final1.pdf

[shadowknows69]

19. You can't slip in all kinds of pork and loopholes in thirty pages

Silly. :P

[Roland99]

20. DOH!

What was I thinking.

Thank you for that.



;-)

[BREMPRO]

25. simple answer, does NOT have the votes. 676 is a waste of time and counterproductive to earnest

efforts being made to improve health care that can actually pass the House and Senate in the real world. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

[Roland99]

26. And you think HR 3962 is.... good?

:eyes:

[BREMPRO]

29. not perfect, no legislation is, but good. The important things is it has a chance to pass congress

we may not get another shot at this since the Dems are likely to lose seats in 2010, so i say take what we can get and build on it. The important reforms are there in some form. I don't buy the rhetoric that the bill a giveaway to the insurance industry or the RW nonsense about government takeover of health care and their complaints about the budget, medicare cuts, and wiping out jobs etc.. it's all politics BS and absurd lies since both bills are estimated to save money and improve medicare. The AARP has endorsed it. It eliminates insurance abuses, covers 30-38 million more uninsured, and reduces the budget. Boener can suck it.

[Roland99]

38. Why should the AARP care? They HAVE Medicare!

This bill is a GIFT to the insurance companies.

[dflprincess]

31. HR676 is where the bargaining should have started

instead they started from the point that would have been an okay, but not good compromise and things have been going downhill ever since.

The Democrats blew the chance to get meaningful reform passed and chose instead to protect the insurance companies at our expensed. Forcing us to buy "coverage" doesn't mean our access to care will improve. They may cut the number of uninsured but the number of underinsured will continue to grow.

[BREMPRO]

37. not so sure that it would have helped at all to start with single payer.

it may have divided the congress and split the Dems in a way that they might not have been able to come to a compromise, or it would have been thrown out early in the process because it didn't have the votes. There is no certainty that we would be in a better place had it been on the table. The bills do address under-insured by eliminating lifetime caps and subsidies for lower incomes. It also has comparative effectiveness research to help reduce costs. What we REALLY need to do, and parts of the bill begin to address, is move away from "fee for service" delivery where the incentives for doc and hospitals are for often unnecessary procedures and tests. The MA experience proved you can get most covered, but if you don't address cost of delivery, insurance rates will continue to go up.

[dflprincess]

39. The House bill allows for annual out of pockets of $5 or $10K (single/family)

for singles with incomes as low as $43,000. Premiums can also be up to 11% of your income and, in addition to the out of pockets and premiums there's all those "incidentals" (like dental and vision) that you'll be paying cash for and that won't count toward your deductible. This, of course, is for the "public option" and companies participating in the exchange that won't be available for several years.

Also, the House bill does allow for the out of pockets and premiums to increase annualy, even if your income does not. There will be lots of people stuck with out of pockets that are so high they still won't be able to afford care.

Pretty much the same system we have now, except you'll be required to send money to the crooks.

The fact is they started bargaining from a weak position and it just got worse.

[BREMPRO]

24. The bill's CBO estimate saves 120 billion in the first ten years and 650 billion over the next

10, covers 31 million more uninsured Americans, has a competitive state exchange including a public option (that can be expanded over time), puts a firewall between public and private plans for abortion, eliminates denials for pre-existing conditions and rescissions, and has subsidies to help lower income pay premiums,- How could any Democratic Senator justify NOT voting for this?? I'm mean really, short of single payer (which does NOT have the votes) this is a monumental historical legislation that goes a long way to address our health care crisis. Reid might have just come up with a bill that can squeak through the obstructions and the blue dogs. Major coup if he can pull it off.

[customerserviceguy]

27. Saw something interesting about the plan on the news tonight

Apparently, they want to tax elective cosmetic surgery:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jafyZ40UW5DgQHWKDslvPNmACjtwD9C2UML80

Anybody care to guess if sex reassignment surgery is covered under the label of "elective"?

[dflprincess]

28. I like the part where they let the insurance companies sell their crap across state lines

That will allow them to move to the states with the fewest mandates and regulations. After all, it worked so well for us when the credit card companies were allowed to do the same sort of thing.

How they can call the crap they're foisting on us reform is beyond me. Apparently they think if the call it that, we'll be dumb enough to believe it. Just like Bush thought he could fool us with his "Clean Skies" bill.

[BREMPRO]

30. What bill is that in? That's a repuke dump - not in any of the Dem plans that i've read.

I agree with you about the across state lines problem, but have not seen that in either the House or Senate bill, and disagree that this is crap- it has some significant reforms and there is no comparison to the evil orwellian "clean skies" bill.

[dflprincess]

32. Wendell Potter talked about it on Olbermann's show tonight

I can't remember if Keith or Potter brought it up first and KO was the one who mentioned how well that worked with credit cards. They also said that the Senate bill allows the insurance companies to keep their antitrust exemption.

[BREMPRO]

35. they were probably talking about the repuke proposals on the across state lines

I'm almost certain that is not in either of the bills. I'd like to see the anti-trust exemption kept in the final bill- we'll see how that works when they try to combine the bills in committee. I heard Potter speak several weeks ago and he gave qualified support for the house bill. He's been an invaluable voice in this process.

[dflprincess]

36. Here's a link posted by another DUer in a thread regarding allowing the crooks

to sell across state lines (so much for "keeping them honest")

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/19/at-the-request-of-ahip-senate-bill-guts-state-health-insurance-regulations/

The Senate bill contains a provision long sought by the health insurance industry lobby AHIP. It would allow for the sale of “nationwide plans.” Theses plan would not be required to follow the state laws regarding what medical treatments must be covered.

These nationwide health plans will, in effect, gut state health insurance regulations and create a race to the bottom. What will likely happen is what happened with the credit card industry: all the card companies moved to the two states with the absolute lowest regulations...

This is a dramatic move by the federal government, forcing states to deregulate their health insurance markets. It forces states to pass another law just to make sure all the previous laws they passed will not be nullified.

This is a dramatic move by the federal government, forcing states to deregulate their health insurance markets. It forces states to pass another law just to make sure all the previous laws they passed will not be nullified.

Funny, Pelosi's rationalization for removing the amendment from the House bill that would have allowed states to work on real solutions like single payer was because "it would break Obama's promise" about keeping your insurance if you like it.

It's like they're having a contest to see which bill can screw us over the most and still have us thank them for "reform".

[BREMPRO]

40. i scanned the bill and couldn't find this provision, I'd like to see it in the actual bill

rather than rely on second hand commentary that might be biased. I would hope the dems would have enough sense, and that there is public pressure to remove it, because as potter and many others have pointed out the danger is the race to the bottom. I frankly surprised it's there because the Dems's have rejected it from day one when the repukes proposed it. It should be take out if it is actually there, but that does not mean the WHOLE bill is crap. We're still a ways from a final bill.

[DU GrovelBot]

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