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Brazil Calls on Obama to Start Dialogue with Venezuela's Hugo Chavez

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-16-09 05:48 PM
Original message
Brazil Calls on Obama to Start Dialogue with Venezuela's Hugo Chavez
Source: Brazzil Magazine

Brazil Calls on Obama to Start Dialogue with Venezuela's Hugo Chavez
Written by Newsroom
Monday, 16 November 2009

Celso Amorim, Brazil's Foreign Affairs minister is sounding the alarm that relations between the United States and Latin America are deteriorating and called on American president Barack Obama to begin a dialogue with Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez.

"It's possible that when President Obama concentrates on the region's problems relations between United States and South America will have deteriorated, let's us hope it does not happen," said Amorim in a Sunday interview with Brazilian daily Folha de S. Paulo.

"Maybe President Obama is too absorbed with Iraq and Afghanistan and that impedes him to concentrate in other issues," added Amorim.

The Brazilian minister insisted that the core issue of relations between the US and South America is the deployment of US forces in seven Colombian bases following on an agreement recently signed between the administration of President Obama and Colombian leader Alvaro Uribe.

"I believe the US should act with more frankness towards the region. President Lula proposed President Obama a meeting to address the issue (of US personnel in Colombian bases) but he did not accept," said Amorim.


Read more: http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/11432/
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-16-09 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Kicking.
:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-16-09 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bravo Lula! Recommended.
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-16-09 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. With all due respect
Edited on Mon Nov-16-09 06:21 PM by YouTakeTheSkyway
what would meeting with Chavez over this subject attain - other than boosting Chavez's status in the region? The U.S. clearly isn't going to scrap the plan in Colombia and Chavez clearly won't be satisfied with anything less than that. The U.S. has bigger fish to fry at the moment. No sense wasting time on this.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-16-09 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Your opinion vs the opinion of virtually all of South America. Who should we believe
as to what is the "core issue" to South American countries, and what is a "waste of time"?

I'd say your opinion counts for almost nothing, compared to those who are saying that this is a "core issue." And I find your dismissal of half the western hemisphere as "small fish" truly arrogant and insulting of our Latin American neighbors. "With all due respect," huh? I don't see any respect.
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-16-09 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Geez, Louise...
I didn't say this wasn't an issue to South American countries. What I said was that there's no real point in direct dialogue between Obama and Chavez on the subject because the U.S. obviously isn't going to concede and Chavez will obviously not be satisfied with anything short of a full concession. Don't you ever tire of attacking straw men?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-16-09 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Don't trouble your beautiful mind.
Didn't Lula turn out to be absolutely fabulous?

I had my doubts about him and so happy to have been so wrong. :hi:
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-16-09 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Difficult to attain any dialogue while ignoring the largest oil producer on that continent.
Obama would be wise to talk to everybody in the room as far as Latin America goes, not just one or two or half the room. All of it. This is how diplomacy is conducted. In any other case when dealing with an enemy, the rules are different, but Venezuela is no Iran, and neither is it a Soviet Union or a North Korea.
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NeoConsSuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-17-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. Pray tell, what fish are these?
Edited on Tue Nov-17-09 09:26 PM by NeoConsSuck
are these the same fish that we are fighting over there so we don't have to fight them here?

'Bigger fish to fry'. That phrase is used a lot in freeptard forums.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-16-09 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. I noticed this started with some UNrecs--the DLC aint happy!
God forbid we talk to the devil who wanted to use his oil income to help his own people.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-16-09 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. "God forbid we talk to the devil who wanted to use his oil income to help his own people"
AND used some of it to help some of our people. Bastard!!! :sarcasm:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-17-09 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. God forbid we ever get a bastard leader like that one.
:sarcasm:
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-17-09 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. it was a fiendish plot to gain sympathy here. Too bad more of our pols haven't thought of it.
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Regret My New Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-17-09 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. I still don't get the un/rec of news stories...
I forgot what it was, but there was another news story with negative recs that caught my attention...
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-17-09 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I'm mildly supportive of allowing it. Otherwise, the five DLCers here could post threads
all day, vote for each others' threads, and make it look like their ideas are the most popular here when they are not by any stretch of the imagination.
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Regret My New Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-17-09 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Well, that makes sense with non-news story topics...
but then again, most posts on here are related to current events...
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-16-09 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. "the core issue" in US/So. American relations is "deployment of US forces in 7 Colombian bases"!!!
"The Brazilian minister insisted that the core issue of relations between the US and South America is the deployment of US forces in seven Colombian bases following on an agreement recently signed between the administration of President Obama and Colombian leader Alvaro Uribe.

"'I believe the US should act with more frankness towards the region. President Lula proposed President Obama a meeting to address the issue (of US personnel in Colombian bases) but he did not accept,' said Amorim."


http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/11432

-----

What is the US military buildup in South America FOR?

The US "war on drugs' has FAILED. Many countries are kicking it out. People hate it. It is extremely corrupt and has resulted in massive brutality, death and displacement mostly aimed--and I think deliberately aimed--at small peasant farmers. And the hard drugs never stop coming--ha-ha on U.S. taxpayers. Its purpose seems to be killing the poor and their leftist advocates, including thousands of union leaders in Colombia. What infernal business does the U.S. military have doing that?

Why doesn't President Obama want to meet with South American leaders on what they consider to be the "core issue" between the U.S. and South America?

If President Obama's new US relationship with Latin America--which he has stated as peace, respect and cooperation--is sincere, why won't he meet with these leaders on the US military buildup, their "core issue" as to peace, and show respect for their views and their elected positions as heads of state, representing many millions of people, and cooperate with them in peacefully and diplomatically resolving issues?

What is he hiding? His weakness? (Chavez said that Obama is "the prisoner of the Pentagon." Is it true?) Or his agreement with the oil war plan for South America that Rumsfeld left on the desk? (I would hate to think that is true.)

I'll tell you what I think. I have never seen anything so like South Vietnam, 1963, as is happening with the U.S. in Colombia right now--the sneaky buildup (new access to seven bases, 600 more US soldiers and 600 US "contractors" to start with--remember "just a few military advisers"?--and they will have immunity from Colombian laws); the extremely corrupt, rightwing, US puppet government that can't survive on its own, but needs $6 BILLION in US military aid--and now direct support at 7 bases--to prop it up (so like the CIA-created South Vietnamese army propping up the CIA-created South Vietnamese government); a long civil war between the left (the poor majority) and the right (the rich few) in which the US has taken sides with the fascists, of course; and a brutal national military and closely tied death squads, responsible for Colombia having one of the worst human rights records on earth. The vile, corrupt, fascist South Vietnamese government and military, deja vu all over again, with the US getting in deeper and deeper, and only a small fraction of the people of the US even aware of it. South Vietnam, 1963.

And this time, the motive is OIL--the need to fuel the humungous U.S. war machine, at outlandishly inflated prices charged to US taxpayers by private US global corporate predator oil giants. The US just got done slaughtering a million innocent people to steal their oil, but it is not enough. Iran was somehow taken "off the table." Where else are they going to get that oil, and those ungodly profits?

I don't know if Obama supports this planned war, or, as Chavez says, is "a prisoner of the Pentagon." He speaks of peace. Is he lying? Or is he so tied down and powerless that he can't do anything about it? (Honduras seems to indicate the latter, but we don't know the whole story there yet; for instance, who gave the order to the US military commanders at the US base in Honduras to let the plane carrying the kidnapped president land there for refueling?) And who and what is he tied down by? Deals he made with Clinton and the Bushwhacks so as not to be Diebolded in 2008? (I think he did win--in an even bigger anti-war vote than that liar LBJ got in 1964--but I also know that a handful of far rightwing corporations control the voting machines and can easily--EASILY!--have stopped him.) Why is he being so coy about these seven new US military bases? Because Jim DeMint is blackmailing him? How did Jim DeMint--a first term senator 'elected' in THE most non-transparent voting system in the US (South Carolina's)--get so much power?

Is he refusing to meet with South American leaders because he doesn't really have control of the situation, because he doesn't really give a damn or is too busy with two on-going Bushwhack wars to worry about the next war, or because he sold us out to another oil war--with the war assets now being put in place in Colombia, in Honduras, in the Caribbean and Panama-- as the price of getting to the White House?

I'm aware of how awful a conclusion it would be if Obama has done to us what LBJ did in 1964--parading as a "peace candidate" while planning, or agreeing to, a new war. But we need to face the fact of this precedent in our history, as well as the possibility that that is the reason for Obama's failure to support restoration of democracy in Honduras, refusal to meet with South American leaders on this US military buildup and apparent approval of the military buildup (we'll see, when it gets to Congress), despite the near universal opposition of Latin American countries, and the obvious harm that it is doing to US diplomacy in the region.

But as I said, I don't know what Obama is thinking, and I don't even have a guess. He could just be beset on all sides, with not a full year yet as president, and some really bad advisers--ripe ground for Bushwhack moles and plotters to be sabotaging him in every way. I am very, very, VERY worried that they are plotting another oil war.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-17-09 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Doesn't sound good nt
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clixtox Donating Member (941 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-17-09 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. Refueling? Was it an ultralight?
Edited on Tue Nov-17-09 05:24 AM by clixtox
I keep reading about how the airplane used to kidnap and evacuate Zelaya from Honduras landed for at least a short time at a US military base while still in Honduras for fuel!

I wonder how much sense that makes to you?

The countries are small in size and the two capitals are less than 360 miles apart.

I have to wonder why the plane did stop there, planes don't generally take off without full, or nearly full, fuel tanks.

Typically the only variable would be an issue with weight requiring that the fuel tanks be "trimmed" to keep within safe load limits.

Even with a routing around Nicaragua, and out over the Pacific Ocean, which wouldn't have added that many miles to the trip.

I wonder if anyone has commented about this in depth.

How long did they "lay-over"?

Who got on or off?

Who allowed the flight to land? Why?

This whole episode stinks, and I realize this is possibly a minor issue, but this enquiring mind would like to know how deeply the USA was complicit and abetting this criminal enterprise...

Way too much, I am convinced!
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-17-09 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
13. How is the US military in Colombia and Honduras will benefit Latin America?
after many years it hasn't help at all.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-17-09 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. It benefits American business interests that have plans for exploiting resources there.
Usually, when big business leaders on Wall Street make plans to move into a certain part of the world, the US military follows not too far behind in the form of military outposts and garrisons to protect corporate interests. Then those garrisons can be used as staging posts for CIA operations to overthrow democratically elected governments or rig elections to favor corporate interests or as a funneling point for money to bribe a whole bunch of indigenous politicians to sell out their people.
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