For Some Smokers, Even Home Is Off Limits

[onehandle]

Source: New York Times

The movement to ban smoking in New York City has grown so quickly that no place seems immune — certainly not restaurants or bars, and public beaches and parks may not be far behind. Now the efforts are rapidly expanding into the living room. More landlords are moving to prohibit smoking in their apartment buildings, telling prospective tenants they can be evicted if they light up in them.

This month, the Related Companies will ban smoking at some of its downtown apartment buildings because of health concerns about secondhand smoke, according to company officials. Smokers who already live in any of these buildings will not be affected, according to Jeff Brodsky, a president of Related, which is a national developer with 17 buildings in Manhattan.

snip...

Other cities, through legislation or by initiatives of developers, have taken similar steps. In California, for example, all apartments and condos in Richmond, near San Francisco, must outlaw cigarette smoking, according to an ordinance passed in July. Across the bay in Belmont, a ban on smoking in apartments took effect in January after a 14-month grace period, with $100 fines possible for offenders.

“I think it’s a bloody good thing,” said Dale Smith, 41, a Broadway producer who formerly worked in the health care industry. A resident of Tribeca Green for nearly three years, Mr. Smith, who does not smoke, said he had complained to his landlord about secondhand smoke in his apartment. “A policy that is in place because something has proven to be hazardous in eating establishments should be effective in the home,” he said.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/16/nyregion/16smoke.html

[imdjh]

1. I'd start smoking again, just to blow it in Dale Smith's "bloody" face. Sounds like a PITA. nt

[liberalhistorian]

53. The real PITA's are inconsiderate, selfish smokers.

I wish my son's father's former landlord had had this policy for their apartment. My son has asthma, yet his father and stepmother not only refused to quit smoking around him when he visited, they also got very angry at him when he even mentioned it at all, let alone complained when it bothered him. And they refused to even discuss it with me. So I had my attorney put a stop to that shit pronto. Turns out they chose smoking over seeing my son, but, considering their stubborn selfish inconsideration, it was no loss to him, frankly.

And it was lucky for me that the timing was better. Had it happened ten or so years earlier than it did, I would have had far less legal recourse since the law at one time allowed parents to poison their children by smoking around them, even if they had asthma or other respiratory issues. Some family court judges finally started getting wise as to how damaging that was and began putting their foot down on it. I say good for them.

[imdjh]

66. Inconsiderate selfish smokers are now far outnumbered by assholes who happen to not smoke cigarettes

[liberalhistorian]

68. And I say that that's a damn good thing, too. Are you actually

telling me that my son's father and stepmother had the right to not only do that to him, but to actually get angry at him when it bothered him and to refuse to even discuss it with me? That they chose smoking over his health and that they had the right to endanger him like that? If so, then you can kindly go fuck yourself after you shove your smokers "rights" up your ass.

[imdjh]

72. What I am actually telling you is that you sound like a thoroughly disagreeable person.

[PurpleChez]

92. God damn the woman for not wanting her kid to have an asthma attack...

Have you actually been with a person suffering a full-blown attack? If 'NO', then shut up. If 'YES', how can you belittle someone who doesn't want to repeat the experience?

[liberalhistorian]

127. LOL. I'm "disagreeable" because I didn't want

my son to suffer physically or be yelled at if he complained about said suffering? LOL. My friend, I'm afraid YOU are the one who's more than a bit "disagreeable." People DO have rights, including the right to smoke, except when such rights endanger the health, safety and/or welfare of others, particularly children and particularly if they have no say in it. If my son's father and his wife want to endanger their own health and waste their money (then complain that they never had any when they spent it all on cigs), then that's their choice and their business. It becomes MY business when they endanger the health and welfare of MY son and refuse to even discuss it.

[Demit]

82. Oh my. I think your problem with your ex & his new wife go far beyond the smoking issue.

[liberalhistorian]

126. Umm.....his wife isn't "new" and we were never

married in the first place, haven't even been a couple since before our son was born and he's now eighteen. This took place several years ago, when the kid was younger. I wouldn't have had any problems with them if they hadn't both insisted on smoking around him, his health and feelings be damned, and if they hadn't gotten angry and yelled at him if he even mentioned it.

[azurnoir]

96. You seem to be confusing the problem

your problem is that your ex is a jerk and his endangerment of your son's health is a matter for custody courts the problem here is that personal rights concerning what one can legally do in ones own home is at stake would you be so quick a law that said one can not consume alcohol in ones home, certainly that too has caused as much if not more harm than cigarettes

eta I too have asthama and think the problem is your ex not the law

[harmonicon]

128. I don't think it has anything to do with that

Families make their own rules. However, I don't think you should be able to get a court order saying that your son's father's neighbours would have to quit smoking.

[PurpleChez]

90. ...which has absolutely nothing to do with the argument being made...

[imdjh]

150. That's true. My response was actually to the "about bloody time". If he's American it's affected, ..

... and if he's British, then he should go home if he's going to bitch.

[CreekDog]

136. Would you blow that smoke in her face?

[architect359]

186. I would suspect so - given the spite that was illustarted in their comments. n/t

[roguevalley]

168. if I owned a place I would forbid smokers. How can anyone complain

about not being allowed to smoke in someone else's place? Jeez. You should see the work involved in getting a place ready for someone after a smoker moves out. If you wanna smoke inside, own your own place or shut up. seems reasonable to me.

[sui generis]

2. If there is shared air handling I agree. BUT . . . .

In the absence of shared air handling, it's time for the government to get the fuck out of people's living rooms.

Where the hell do we live? Bring on the fat tax. I say make it illegal to eat cheetoes in your living room. God knows cheeto farts are the nastiest most egregious expulsion of a biological weapon possible. If it wasn't toxic our bodies would keep it, but oh noes, we blow that crap right out into the air for everyone around us to gag on.

Outlaw FARTs!!!!!!

I hate uppity non-smokers, they can all go straight to hell, and I'll be happy to hold the door open for them.

[Kievan Rus]

3. My goodness, I loathe nanny state assholes. They're even worse than the Christian Taliban

[Diane R]

13. So I take it you don't have asthma. I loathe inconsiderate smokers.

[Maraya1969]

22. You know I wrote down thread that I thought this ban was stupid but now

that you mention asthma I am thinking different. I have asthma, (and I used to smoke) and now cigarette smoke really affects my breathing. It affect my eyes too, they water and itch like heck when I am in a room with people smoking. I imagine it is much worse for little kids with asthma.

So considering that I think there is merit to the ban, unless there is a way to keep the smoke completely inside the person's apartment, (air filters?).

[imdjh]

61. Doctors used to prescribe smoking to asthmatics.

[liberalhistorian]

67. Yes, and how long ago was that? Quite awhile ago, well

before they knew all the real facts about the dangers of smoking, especially to those with respiratory issues. And those docs did a LOT of damage to asthmatics. Nice try, but try following along and getting in the right century and decade now, please.

[Diane R]

145. Not that I'm aware...and I've had asthma my entire life.

[imdjh]

149. Then you are probably under 50. Hey, give it a try, it might work.

[Zhade]

205. No, they used to prescribe POT to them. Get your history straight.

Unlike tobacco smoke, which is a bronchial constrictor, mj smoke is a bronchial DILATOR.

The difference is night and day.

[yellowcanine]

14. Not a nanny state issue. It is a landlord tenant issue. If I am paying big bucks for an apartment

I have the right not to have the clothes in my closet reeking of smoke from the next door neighbor's cigarettes.

[TheCowsCameHome]

24. +1

Who wants to smell that crap?

[liberalhistorian]

48. That's the crux of it right there; it's not

a governmental issue, it's a landlord issue. In this country, landlords, for the most part, still have the right to determine under what circumstances they will rent. For instance, they have the right to say no to pets and children and section 8 vouchers, which many do, and there isn't a damn thing the government can do about it. Same with smoking.

Landlord policies are still mostly free-market based. And the free market appears to be working in the case of smoking. IOW, smokers are in a distinct minority now and those complaining about smoking are in a strong majority. So, they're going to listen more to those who have a problem with smoking than those who smoke because they'll stand to lose more potential nonsmoking tenants than smoking tenants.

And I frankly don't blame landlords at all for this. Cleaning up an apartment after a smoker has moved out is damn near impossible, which makes it both expensive to do and difficult to rent to other tenants.

Smokers have a choice in smoking, no one forces them to light up the death sticks that bother so many others and that are downright dangerous healthwise to many. If they don't like it, then fucking quit smoking. I'm an ex-smoker, so I know how difficult it is to quit, believe me, and I do sympathize. But it CAN be done.

[PurpleChez]

87. Thanks for a lucid argument...

...and the fact that you speak as an ex-smoker makes it even more valuable.

[PurpleChez]

50. Rock on!

I do not know enough of the details of this specific issue and will not comment on the rightness or wrongness of the legislation, but I do not agree that my preference for breathing clean air should take a back seat to smokers' addictions. What really amazes me is the success that smokers have had in casting this as a human rights issue. I have friends who are lifelong non-smokers but who, as civil-rights liberals, opposed ANY restrictions on smoking, even in confined, public spaces...they even lapsed into a denial of scientific evidence that would make the global warming deniers and man-coexisting-with-dinosaurs crowd proud, insisting that there was NO conclusive evidence linking second-hand smoke with health problems. No one would suggest that the guy in the next apartment be allowed to foul my air by keeping livestock in his apartment...why should he be able to foul my air with burning cigarettes? If he is truely able to smoke without affecting the air that I breathe then I have absolutely no problem with it. But the moment that I suffer as the result of his addiction is where my empathy ends.

[Diane R]

146. Well said.

[krabigirl]

27. Yep..they are like the Christian Taliban of the left, and they drive me nuts.

I cannot stand this crap and I will not vote for any of these nanny state politicians ever again.

[imdjh]

64. Doesn't matter though, smoking will eventually die out. But the self righteous will live on forever.

The only question is what their next objective will be and how they can exploit their children to pursue it.

[Demit]

76. That's the truest thing I've read on this thread. The self-righteous will always find something

to be self-righteous about. The rest of us will always have to put up with their odor.

[onehandle]

117. Mind if I come over and release rabid, radioactive skunks into your place?

Only a nanny state asshole would have some sort of regulation against this.

They would be worse than a 'Christian Taliban.'

[Warpy]

4. Smoke deposits

a sticky brown lacquer on all surfaces: walls, windows, appliances, and drapes and the smell in carpets is resistant to even deep cleaning between tenants. I can see the landlord's point, sort of. Other human activities also stink and screw up the paint, like living on broiled meat, so it really should be considered normal wear and tear and be included in the rent.

However, in the absence of a shared, forced air heating system, I don't see why some units shouldn't be smoker units and some units smoke free. It seems pretty self defeating to refuse to rent to smokers, especially when apartments in higher end units have balconies that could easily accommodate smokers, and I sincerely doubt the policy will last long.

I hate smoking. Cig smoke in enclosed areas makes me terribly sick. It's a legal activity, though, and there should be a limit to anyone's ability to regulate anyone else's life at home.

Just ban it in public indoor spaces and we'll get along fine.

[katkat]

47. Warpy

The guy who smokes on his balcony means his neighbors have to shut their balcony doors and their windows.

[liberalhistorian]

54. Hey, as long as the smokers, who CHOOSE their "habit" and

who KNOW the dangers by now to others around them, have THEIR rights, who cares if the rest of us are unable to enjoy cleaner air and have to shut our own windows???

[joeybee12]

98. It's not a choice, it's an addiction...if they chose a habit, they could

easily give it up...they can't.

[liberalhistorian]

129. I'm more than well aware of what a powerful addiction it is.

And as an ex-smoker I know how difficult it is to quit. Hell, I quit almost twenty years ago and I still want one once in awhile. It took me three attempts before I finally quit successfully and I sympathize with those trying to quit because I know what they're up against and what they're dealing with, both physically and psychologically. I have little patience with those who've never smoked who say things like "just quit already, what's the big deal." BUT. IT CAN BE DONE. It is NOT impossible. It's called discipline and self-control.

[imdjh]

148. I disagree to some degree. Quitting smoking really wasn't all that hard, and while I miss it....

.... now and then, it's more of a memory than a longing. Quitting food is the tough one. Alcohol, cocaine, cigarettes are all pieces of cake compared to food.

[NeoConsSuck]

202. How does one quit food?

I'm assuming you are referring to overeating? If so, I've just lost 30 pounds. I just quit eating all the foods I enjoy, and now eat the healthy foods I don't enjoy. And most of my free time is spent in Golds Gym. Is it sustainable? Probably not.

And I've quit smoking, and all illegal drugs. And none were easy. Years and years in 12 step programs.

[Scout]

185. they CHOSE to start smoking and addicted themselves--duh n/t

[Psephos]

74. In the same sense that I have to close my car window when I drive behind your tailpipe? n/t

[Warpy]

94. Yes, it stinks

but it's diluted enough not to be a danger to people like me if it's outdoors.

[imdjh]

151. That's a huge part of this debate: cig odor and second hand smoke are not the same thing. . .

And there are indeed people on a crusade against cigarettes (anyplace anytime) that has nothing whatsoever to do with risk or inconvenience, they're just assholes. So, I'm an asshole. Anyone who wants to be an ass about smoking has to prove to me that he doesn't smoke pot.

[Warpy]

169. Well, I don't smoke anything

and at this point in my life, I'm certainly not interested in inhaling the smoke from burning leaves of anything into my lungs.

I would, however, enjoy some loaded brownies a couple of times a year. It's something that wouldn't be shared with unwilling people the way smoke is.

I do, however, know the difference between a bad smell and a health hazard. Smoking indoors in a confined area is a health hazard. A whiff of smoke outdoors is not.

[harmonicon]

131. welcome to society

Sometimes, some people will do some things that other people aren't completely ok with. Those who aren't ok with something have two choices: 1. fucking deal, or 2. change their behaviour ever so slightly (closing balcony doors, for instance).

I hate the smell of seafood. Does that mean that seafood should be banned?

[imdjh]

70. Smoking is a lot of work and expense, that's for sure. I used to work myself to death...

... before I stopped smoking in the house. I probably painted this house twice that it wouldn't have needed it, and spent countless hours washing floors, walls, and fabrics. I can't say that smoking ever ruined furniture, because I am rather hard on furniture anyway, so the life of a chair is about the same regardless of smoking. The reason I quit, though, is because this house has never handled smoke well, even with the windows open, and one Christmas I had worked my ass off to clean the place within an inch of its life, and the first thing my sister said on arrival from another state was, "Looks great but it's really smoky in here." when in fact I hadn't smoked for an hour or more before her arrival.

I never permitted smoking in the bedroom wing, but even so, I would have to spend a great deal of time washing covers and curtains.

[liberalhistorian]

130. I remember when I finally managed to quit for good,

I couldn't believe how much everything around me stank of smoke. My apartment and everything in it, including curtains, my car, all my clothes, even my hair and my books, my purse. I had to throw things out and start from scratch in order to deal with it 'cause I just couldn't stand the smell. I couldn't believe I'd never noticed it before until I quit.

[Warpy]

198. Some years after my mother finally quit

a wealthy friend of hers who still smoked gave her some expensive clothing she'd grown out of. My mother had to hang them outdoors on the pool deck. Even after getting them dry cleaned, she could still smell it and never wore them. I think Aunt Sally's Boutique ended up with them.

When my mother told me about this, she apologized for those years growing up I spent in my room with a towel under the door. She simply had no idea what it was like until she got those clothes.

[dugaresa]

194. i never saw how damaging cigarette smoke could be until a woman I worked with moved

she took her pictures off the wall and the wall under the pictures was a light cream and the entire office had this nasty taupe color. If it did that to the walls, what the hell did it do to her lungs?

[LeftyMom]

206. I had to get a unit cleaned after a chain smoking tenant once- the total cost was over $2000

for new carpet, sealing and painting the walls, cleaning any other surface within an inch of it's life and running an ozone machine in the unit for over a week. There was still a lingering smell of smoke, though it no longer overpowering, it still made it difficult to rent the unit out. Getting rid of it entirely would have required tearing out and replacing the freakin' drywall, making a smoking tenant as expensive and destructive as fire in the apartment. Worse really, insurance would cover a fire. Around the same time one of our tenants had to move to another unit on doctor's orders because the smoke from the neighboring unit triggered two of her children's asthma attacks and resulted in repeated visits to the ER for both of them.

After that we started converting 2/3 of our buildings to smoke free, we didn't make anybody move we just started siting all new smoking tenants in one part of the complex (where the majority of the smoking households already were) and the non-smokers in the remainder. Unfortunately charging a smoking deposit wasn't going to happen because none of the nearby competitors were doing so.

[Doremus]

5. I assume they'll also be bricking up any fireplaces and banning barbecues.

Smoke = smoke

[Zoeisright]

10. LOL - uh huh.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

:rofl:

[Occulus]

23. I remember when the first public place smoking bans were enacted

it wasn't that long ago, after all.

Every last antismoker on DU told the smokers they would never try to ban or be for a ban on smoking in one's own home.

Every. Last. One. Think about that.

They all lied. All of them, without exception. Imagine that.

[JonQ]

46. It's seems like we're moving towards an outright ban

prohibition, but of nicotine.

Except that will never happen because state governments rely so heavily on the revenue generated by tobacco.

So maybe tobacco zones designated in certain parts of the city?

[katkat]

51. Occulus

If someone wants to smoke in their own house, and the smoke doesn't get into neighbors houses or yards, they can smoke away as far as I'm concerned. Rental apartments, or condos with shared air systems, that's entirely different.

[Diane R]

147. So how do you propose making their apts airtight? Smoke goes through door cracks and vents.

[sui generis]

73. here's the test:

if they are against renting to a smoker vs. having a no-smoking policy in a rental unit.

It's a difference with a distinction, and some of them slip up and show the petticoats of their true agenda.

Just the same, I promise you there are DU'ers who are for banning cigarettes altogether across the U.S., and that's just petty control issues.

[joeybee12]

40. Amazing...continuing not to make sense...

...apparently all wood contains tar and nicotene. Apparently science ain't her strong point.

[WriteDown]

75. All sorts of good stuff in there....

http://www.ecy.wa.gov/pubs/92046.pdf

[Doremus]

153. Apparently you aren't smart enough to google

What’s in Wood Smoke?

Wood smoke contains over 100 different chemicals and compounds, including
dioxin, as well as lead, cadmium and arsenic.

Below is a partial list:
*+carbon monoxide, methane, VOCs (C2-C7),
*aldehydes, +formaldehyde, *+acrolein, +pro-
pionaldehyde, butyl aldehyde, +acetaldehyde,
furfural, substituted furans, +benzene, +alkyl
benzenes, +toluene, acetic acid, formic acid,
*nitrogen oxides (NO, NO2), *sulfur dioxide,
+methyl chloride, +naphthalene, +substituted
naphthalenes, oxygenated monoaromatics,
guaiacol (and derivatives), *+phenol (and
derivatives), syringol (and derivatives), +cat-
echol (and derivatives), *+particulate organic
carbon, oxygenated polycyclic aromatic
hydrocarbons, +PAHs: fluorene, phenanthrene,
+anthracene, methylanthracenes, +fluoran-
thene, *+pyrene, +benzo(a)anthracene, +chry-
sene, +benzofluoranthenes, *+benzo(e)pyrene,
*+benzo(a)pyrene, *perylene, +ideno(1,2,3-
cd)pyrene, *benz(ghi)perylene, *coro-
nene, +dibenzo(a,h)pyrene, retene,
dibenz(a,h)anthracene, trace elements: Na, Mg,
Al, Si, S, Cl, K, Ca, Ti, V, +Cr, +Mn, Fe, +Ni,
Cu, Zn, Br, +Pb; particulate elemental carbon,
normal alkanes (C24-C30), cyclic di-and triter-
penoids, dehydroabietic acid, isopimaric acid,
lupenone, friedelin, +chlorinated dioxins

* Indicates a chemical also found in cigarette smoke
+Indicates a chemical that is classified as toxic by U.S. Law

Breathing in wood smoke is comparable to inhaling second-hand cigarette smoke.

Many of the pollutants are similar to those produced by burning tobacco. The EPA
estimates that wood smoke is 12 times more carcinogenic than equal amounts of tobacco
smoke and attacks our body cells up to 40 times longer than tobacco smoke.

A single fireplace operating for an hour and burning 10 pounds of wood during that time
will generate 4,300 times more carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons than 30 ciga-
rettes.

http://burningissues.org/pdfs/WoodSmBroharris.pdf

[liberalhistorian]

56. Ummm.......no. Nice try, but cig smoke is MUCH

different and more dangerous and bothersome than the smoke you're talking about.

[WriteDown]

91. Pretty close

http://www.ecy.wa.gov/pubs/92046.pdf

[onehandle]

112. Not to mention that those other smokes serve a purpose.

Heat, cooking... Even car exhaust provides transportation.

Smoking serves no purpose. It only provides addiction and health risks for all.

[CreekDog]

140. they ban wood burning in many cities to reduce pollution

your post implied that such a thing would be foolhardy to even consider when in fact woodsmoke is a big contributor to wintertime air pollution on calm, clear nights and thus is regulated in countless communities.

[imdjh]

152. And they are going to ban cigarette smoking in public housing, but pot and crack will still be OK.

[mamaleah]

157. No doubt. I am sure many here would be habve their panties knotted if the article was about pot.

Because everyone knows that everyone loves the smell of that wafting into their apartment.

[Flaneur]

191. You get thrown out of public housing if you get caught with a joint.

Or if your granchild who lives with you gets caught with a joint three blocks away.

So you're just wrong with that stupid remark.

[WriteDown]

6. This is really bad news for SCHIP. nt

[cosmicone]

7. This is a great idea... will make more people quit. n/t

[krabigirl]

28. Sorry, I think it will have the opposite effect.

[walldude]

38. It will "make" people quit.

What right do you have to "make" me do anything?

[liberalhistorian]

59. What right do YOU have to "make" others

get sick from your damned smoke?

[PurpleChez]

106. You're my hero. n/t

[appleannie1]

83. Just like prohibition made people stop drinking alcohol

[demoleft]

8. i already can't. my wife would kill me.

New York without tobacco smoke is simply ridicolous.

[TheCowsCameHome]

9. Hold on a minute - I need to get more popcorn

Another classic smoking thread in the works...........

[Buns_of_Fire]

181. Don't be TOO quick on that thar popcorn, good buddy...

Popcorn Ingredient Causes Lung Cancer

If Goldman (Sachs) doesn't get ya, the popcorn will...:popcorn::smoke::beer:

Yep, we're boned.

[The2ndWheel]

11. One size must fit all

Or all must fit one size. Either way.

[Diane R]

12. I hope they succeed. Second hand smoke is a terrible problem for people with respiratory illnesses.

Smokers don't have a clue how much trouble their smoke can cause. I can honestly smell the smoke from my neighbor's backyard, 50 feet away in the open air.

I'm glad the issue of second hand smoke is finally being taken seriously. Thankfully, I live in Washington State where we banned cigarettes within 20 feet of restaurants, bars, stores and work places years ago. It's wonderful.

[liberalhistorian]

60. Not only do they not have a clue, they often don't

give a shit, either. Or they DO have a clue and they STILL don't give a shit.

[PurpleChez]

107. ...some folks who wouldn't dream of dropping an f-bomb with kids around...

...wouldn't think twice about chain smoking their way through a pack of cigarettes with their kid in the car....

[liberalhistorian]

132. No kidding And then get furious if the kids

get upset or start coughing, or if people say anything. Or wonder why they're always getting sick with colds, coughs, etc. Been there, done that.

[starroute]

15. Smoke does get through the walls

I once worked at a place where every Friday afternoon I would start to smell cigar smoke, which I'm very allergic to. It wasn't any of our people, so it had to be someone in the next unit over lighting up at the end of the work week and the smoke coming through the wall into my office.

This might not be true of older buildings with thick plaster walls -- but secondhand smoke can be an active nuisance for apartment dwellers and not merely a theoretical fear of health risks.

[WriteDown]

20. You're like me...

I am severely allergic to MJ smoke. I can't even go to parties or concerts anymore. Hopefully, the same rules will be applied to people who smoke it medicinally. They have to make sure they are no where near where anyone else may be affected.

[tsuki]

31. I am allergic to chemical smells. I have to keep a change of clothes

at work because of the people that come in stinking of some chemical with a well-funded Ad account. I say if you want to smell that stuff, get a capsule and stick it up your nose.

When you tell people that you are allergic to that stuff, they look at you like you're crazy. They are far, by far, more disrespectful of your rights than smokers are.

[WriteDown]

35. Technically, its not an allergen...

its an irritant.

[laughingliberal]

143. Correct. But save your breath

the long-suffering get so much more mileage out of professing an allergy to smoke.

[Occulus]

176. My understanding is that smoke is not an allergen n/t

[Hassin Bin Sober]

16. Come on smokers. You know you have a disgusting filthy habit that should never take place ....

.... inside in the first place. Heck, most of you won't smoke in your OWN home because you know it stinks so bad. Why shouldn't a landlord be able to protect his own property ... or another unit occupant be allowed to go without your smelly and dangerous habit affecting their lives.

[Maraya1969]

17. I wish they would make an ordinance that it is illegal to prohibit apartment

renters to have dogs or cats. Personally I think that is just unfair and unhealthy.

But the smoking thing they can shove up their asses.

[RetroLounge]

18. Here we go...

and the nanny-class will be all for the government getting into their homes.

So if I am alergic to cats, they should ban cats from all apartments.

Little danderful shits are worthless and are a health hazard.

No one could possibly disagree, right?

RL

[Manifestor_of_Light]

179. But you don't take your cat to public restaurants, or bars, do you?

Where their hair could make me sneeze?

[sinkingfeeling]

19. Yes sir, the 'home of the free'. You can spend $500,000 of your money to buy your home and then be

told what you can or cannot do within its walls. It's the American way.... so watch out, they'll be after the obese next.

[krabigirl]

29. Yep.

[liberalhistorian]

65. Um, excuse me, they're talking about apartment and condo

rentals with landlords, and not houses people buy outright. And if a condo HOA decides to forbid smoking, then it's in the bylaws that people can read BEFORE THEY BUY. No one's talking about prohibiting in houses people buy themselves. Landlords DO have the right to make these determinations, just like they do when they prohibit pets, children or section 8 vouchers.

[droidamus2]

88. Okay, but

What are the chances that somewhere down the line mortgage companies will push for a ban in any home that still has a mortgage? Which is a majority of them I would think. The fact is the anti-smokers (I don't smoke myself) want to prohibit tobacco products but they are afraid of a backlash so they will just keep tightening the screws until it is 'legal' to have cigarettes but illegal to smoke them anywhere.

[sinkingfeeling]

99. I always thought one bought a co-op apartment or condo in NYC.

[Auggie]

21. I always smoked outside

Well, almost always

[krabigirl]

25. This is ridiculous and will backfire. Can they even smoke on their balconies?

[onehandle]

114. Nope.

[Karenina]

26. Nationwide, your water is contaminated with serious shit

Your mountaintops are being blown up, your soil is being depleted, your cities are dying... I say cigarette smoke is being blown up your collected and collective asses. BTW, what the HELL did that Obama think he was doing, BOWING to Hirohito??? :rofl:

[PurpleChez]

111. Hirohito's been dead for I don't know how long....

...where's Wikipedia when I need it?

[Karenina]

178. You noticed!

:hug:

[TheCowsCameHome]

30. If the owner wants to set the rules, either conform or move.

The landlord owns the property. Period.

[Nye Bevan]

32. It seems amazing today that 20 years ago people could smoke on most airline flights,

Perhaps 20 years from now it will seem amazing that in 2009 people could smoke in most apartment buildings. And restaurant entryways. And that most companies tolerated the most addicted of the smokers huddling outside puffing away while their coworkers picked up the slack.

Grovelbot- please weigh in now if you agree. Signal that you think I am correct by posting something like "PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND".

[Flaneur]

69. I last lit up on a Mexicana flight from NYC to Mexico City in 1993.

Smoking was already banned on US domestic flights by then.

This weekend, I flew into and out of the airpot in Albuquerque. Not only can you not smoke in the airport, you can't smoke anywhere on the airport property! Isn't that a bit much? Of course, that rule is widely ignored.

We are seeing a dramatic shift in social norms around smoking. As a smoker, I'm starting to feel just a little bit harassed. Can't smoke indoors. Can't go to a bar or coffee shop and enjoy a cigarette with my beverage. Can't smoke outdoors without getting dirty looks. (Don't you self-righteous complainers realize you drove us outdoors?) Now I can't smoke at home, either?

Funny...I've been smoking for 40 years. I can feel it some, but I also do lots of physical activities and have even been known to wonder around at 13,000 feet. Yet some of you are going to drop over dead if you catch a whiff of smoke.

[Nye Bevan]

81. Do yourself and your loved ones a favor and quit.

Within 20 minutes: Your blood pressure and pulse rate drops

Within eight hours: Carbon monoxide and oxygen levels in your blood returns to normal

Within 24 hours: Your chance of heart attack decreases

Within 48 hours: Your ability to smell and taste is better

Between two weeks and three months: Your circulation and lung function improves and walking becomes easier

Within one to nine months: Cilia grow again in the lungs, fatigue, coughing, sinus congestion and shortness of breath decrease

After just a year: Your risk of heart attack is less than that of smoker

After five years: Your odds of developing lung, throat, mouth and esophagus cancer drops by almost half

Between five and 15 years: Your stroke risk is reduced to that of a non-smoker

After 10 years: Your lung cancer death rate is similar to that of non-smokers

After 15 years: You have the same risk of heart disease as a non-smoker

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

This week is our fourth quarter 2009 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

[aquart]

34. Smoke comes up thru the radiator.

Water, of course, goes down. Damn those inexplicable leaks.

[SallyMander]

36. Landlords can say you can't have cats or dogs

So what's the difference here? I'm not seeing the big deal -- it's their property.

[walldude]

37. The big deal is this is making smoking a class war.

Only people who can afford to buy a house can smoke indoors?

[Nye Bevan]

42. Only people who can afford to buy a house can play music at full volume at 3 AM

Is that also class warfare?

[walldude]

52. LMAO where do you live? I have had put up with loud parties

and music all hours of the night in many places.

And if you want to play this little game fine. I will stop smoking when everyone else stops driving. I notice that you don't keep your pollutants from your car in your home. You drive outside where those dangerous pollutants could kill other people but that doesn't seem to bother you.

[harmonicon]

137. +1

[SallyMander]

44. Is pet ownership a class war?

Just as there will always be landlords that allow you to keep a cat, there will surely always be landlords that allow you to smoke. The article isn't about legislation, just landlord preference.

[walldude]

49. No. Some places allow pets and some don't. There is no city

ordinance against pets. An ordinance would ban smoking even if the landlord wants to allow it.

[liberalhistorian]

71. Maybe if they quit smoking they could actually afford

to buy a fucking house. Smoking is horribly expensive now, yet the very people who complain about not having enough money for food or diapers or formula never seem to have any problem coming up with tons of money for smokes. Seen it a million times.

[PurpleChez]

115. I worked in residential mental health services for some time

and it was amazing what staff was expected to go through to help clients afford their cigarettes. We bought all kinds of non-essentials with program money (snacks, drinks, other personal items that clients were supposed to be buying for themselves) so that they could smoke a pack or two of cigarettes a day. Every day. There was no other situation that we handled in a like manner.

Another thing that irked me in those settings... if we had a client who had or developed diabetes we insisted that they comply with every prescribed aspect of their treatment regimen. We prohibited access to sugary drinks, desserts, etc., and responded to violations with significant consequences. But when a client was diagnosed with COPD (and we had several who were) and was told that continuing to smoke would cut years off his life...well, we just kept the cigarettes coming. I'm not saying that either situation was right or wrong, just that the double standard bugged the hell out of me....

[liberalhistorian]

135. I can certainly see why that would bug the hell out of you,

as it would have me as well. It makes no sense except that, since smoking is, indeed, s atrong addiction, it might have been easier and cheaper for the organization you worked for to let them have the cigs than to deal with the fallout from their physical and psychological withdrawal. I've been through the withdrawal. Even though it was almost twenty years ago, I still remember it vividly and it was not pleasant in the least. The thing that kept me going was how much better I began to feel physically after about a week or so. That really helped me keep it up.

[kelly1mm]

174. Smoking is not expensive. Buying cigarettes is. I grow my own

tobacco and buy cigarette tubes for $2.75 per carton. No SCHIP taxes either - sorry kids.

[JonQ]

43. Well in the CA example

it's not up to the landlords, it's a city ordinance. That concerns me.

[The Straight Story]

175. Bar owners used to be able to say who could smoke and who could not,but liberals wanted that changed

So why would we be upset if the govt forced landlords to do the opposite?

We don't really like choice anyway, we just like forcing others to do as we and our god/morals desire.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

184. OK, Rush.

[The_Commonist]

39. I'm a smoker, and a NYC real estate agent.

I don't smoke in my apartment.
I think it's pretty gross.
OK, we smoke *once in a while, when other smokers come over* and I think it's pretty gross.
As soon as the smokers leave, I empty the ashtrays and spray air freshener.
Luckily, we have a small backyard where we can go sit and smoke most of the time.

I would say that about 10 per cent of the rental listings we have here in Brooklyn won't allow smoking in the building.
And no smoking listings have begun to increase lately.
Mind you, they don't say "no smokers" only no smoking.

Personally, I think it's fine.
It's easier to rent a place that way.
I've seen WAY too many apartments where a smoker just moved out, and they tend to be completely disgusting.
One girl had about 40 old tuna cans each stuffed with butts on various shelves and across the floor in the apartment.
The landlord had to rip out the carpeting, and paint over everything. Twice.
Smoking is gross, and I love it, and I don't want to bother anyone who is sensitive to it.

[tammywammy]

41. Then there's that case where people are suing their neighbors for smoking outside

in their own backyard.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

102. Don't forget. It wasn't THEIR own backyard.

It was their mother/mother-in-law's house. She thought the habit was so disgusting and detrimental to HER home that she made her adult children and spouses use the backyard as a 24/7 smoking lounge thereby annoying the owners next door.

[katkat]

45. good for them

A neighbor down the street where I used to live used a wood stove in the winter, and even with my house as winter tight as an old house can get, it was purgatory.

Plus, when Mr. and Mrs. Chimney Renters move out, the landlord will have to have the walls painted with Klitz(sp?) or some similar coverup to seal in the odor and tar stains, so they don't bleed through the top coat of paint. That stuff takes forever to dry and is quite expensive. Plus shampooing the heck out of the carpets, dry cleaning the drapes, etc. Some of that stuff may not be salvageable, esp. if the apartment is rented furnished.

[PurpleChez]

116. it's "Kilz"...but your version is a lot funnier!!!

[laughingliberal]

55. Let's ban the use of everything that is a respiratory irritant

I have asthma. Started smoking at 12. Cigarette smoke does not trigger asthma attacks for me. But cleaning products (especially bleach), some air fresheners, and a lot of colognes and perfumes do. Haven't heard anyone talk about banning these items in public or in people's homes.

Walked into the bathroom of the office building I worked in a few years back just after housekeepers had been in to clean. Took a trip to the emergency room and a shot of epinephrine to open me up again.

[sui generis]

58. yep. I vote we ban farts too.

just sayin' :shrug:

:P

[U4ikLefty]

195. If you're allowed to fart on your balcony

your neighbors will have to close their doors & windows.

I'm allergic to farts & they trigger my asthma.

Some of us suffer from your selfish farting addiction. That is somehting you inconsiderate addicts never understand!!!

I'm done venting.

[JonQ]

63. What about cooking with certain food items?

using peanuts, shellfish and other foods in cooking can affect people who are not eating it through allergic reactions. Those should be banned.

Dander and fur from pets can be carried on the wind.

God help us if cellphones are ever tied to increased cancer rates.

[Arugula Latte]

57. Why should a landlord tolerate people permanently reeking up their property?

Makes sense to me.

Plus, if you live next door, you have to breathe the noxious smoke that seeps through all tiny spaces.

[laughingliberal]

62. I have no problem with landlords banning smoking just as some do pets.

I have a problem with passing a law telling a landlord they must ban smoking in their properties.

[Psephos]

77. Are you referring to Indian exchange students and their cooking? n/t

[architect359]

188. Sounds like a typical freeper comment. n/t

[Psephos]

190. Actually, yours is the "typical freeper comment."

And it is explicitly prohibited under DU posting rules.

My comment was good-natured (I love Indian food, btw.) Most who have lived in an off-campus apartment complex would understand. ;)

[graywarrior]

78. Ha!

[GillesDeleuze]

79. good, smoking can ruin a place.

well, that kind can.

[Robb]

84. Good. I'm glad someone brought up pot, at least tangentially.

How about pot? If we legalize it, where the hell are people gonna smoke it?

[Odin2005]

103. Pot smokers smoke pot a lot less often then nicotine addicts smoke cigs.

[mamaleah]

158. It still stinks.

Way back when we were first married, my husband and I had a teeny "bachelor" apartment. Our neighbors spent every summer evening on their balcony smoking up. It always came into our apartment. it was nasty.

[shanti]

159. but does the law address this,

or is it just tobacco that is being referred to?

[cynatnite]

80. Nothing new here...

Most houses we've rented are like this. The leases are very specific. No smoking.

When I used to smoke, I went along with it...stepped outside.

As a renter, it was not my home and I had to abide by the landlord's wish.

[CreekDog]

85. For some asthmatic children, even home is off limits for breathing if their neighbors smoke

just thought I'd put this into perspective.

one group can't smoke.

the other can't breathe.

[laughingliberal]

89. As I've said, let's be sure and ban all respiratory irritants nt

[SteveM]

86. Prediction: smoking prohis will enlist child protection services departments...

to aid in banning smoking in residences where children reside.

Smoking is already banned in public in two California cities.

Prohibition schemes similar to the ones used on illegal drugs WILL be attempted if there is no resistance to them.

[liberalhistorian]

138. I frankly would have no problem with that whatsoever.

Smoking is horribly detrimental to children and they have no say in being exposed to it. The parents' right to poison themselves does not supercede the rights of the children to clean air, especially if they have or are susceptible to respiratory problems.

[PurpleChez]

93. As it is every time this issue comes up

I am amazed to see how many people side with smokers over air-breathers, going so far as to condemn people who want to avoid asthma attacks as santimonious, self-righteous American Talibans. I trust that none of these folks would object if I established a pig farm next to their homes....

[Odin2005]

101. or avoid autistic meltdowns.

:banghead:

[PurpleChez]

104. Which side are you accusing of "autistic meltdowns"?

Either way, it's pretty damn crass...labeling a difference of opionion, even a strong one, as an "autistic meltdown" is about as insensitive toward autistics as is belittling the mom who didn't want her kid to have an asthma attack. I can't tell which side you're on...if you're on mine I'm not sure I want you there....

[Odin2005]

110. I meant that many of use on the spectrum have issues with cigarette smoke

[EFerrari]

113. Thank, you, Mullah Omar.

:silly:


Full disclosure: I'm a 2 pack a day smoker. The time I don't spend smoking is spent trying to contain smoke from irritating men, women and fish. And dogs and cats, goats, horses, jack rabbits, philodendrons and wallboard.

[PurpleChez]

120. apologies...

(on edit: my original response to the preceding comment, however heartfelt and perhaps legitimate, should have been worded more constructively. My apologies.)

The fact that you try to be considerate does nothing to change the fact that millions of your fellows are not and do not just irritate others but put some of them at risk for severe medical complications. And your attempt to marginalize someone who objects to being put at risk in such a way is pathetic.

[EFerrari]

122. I think you misread my post

which made fun of me, not you. That's all right. Except the really ugly part of your reply, anyway. lol

[PurpleChez]

124. regarding the ugly part....

...please read the edit to my original post. I hurried home to make sure I could make the edit in the alloted time. You beat me hands down in the maturity and graciousness department for the day, I don't mind saying... Have a good evening!

[EFerrari]

125. It's my fault if my post could be mistaken for a slam.

It's Monday all over. :)

[Regret My New Name]

95. I have little problem with it if it's the owners making the choice...

I see it similar to how some places do not allow cats or dogs. I'm not anti-smoker either. In fact, I dislike laws that make it illegal for bar owners to allow smoking. I think it should be up to the owners to decide who they cater to. With the environment as anti-smoking as it is now, I would bet many places would still remain smoke free even if they were not forced... However, some places would allow smoking, and smokers will go to those and people who cannot tolerate smoke will go to the ones who do not allow smoking.

Anyway, so long as it's the owners making the decisions, I fail to see the problem.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Odin2005]

100. This is a good idea. I live in an appartment and I am very sensitive to cigarette smoke.

Getting a whiff of it turns me into a rocking, hand-flapping mess. You Smokers need to respect those of use with severe sensory sensitivities.

[liberalhistorian]

139. Too many of them don't even respect their own

children, let alone others around them who may be affected.

[WillyT]

105. Man... I Sure Hope Nobody Lights Up Any Marijuana In Their Own Home\Apartment...

Somebody might just turn them in to the authorities.

Like a pissed off tobacco smoker, just to name one.

:wtf:

Authoritarian Liberals... what a concept.

:puke:

[Psephos]

108. "Authoritarian Liberals"

You nailed it.

A contradiction in terms, which can be shortened more accurately to simply "authoritarians."

[WillyT]

123. Yeah, It Should Be An Oxymoron...

But apparently it's just moronic.

I expect conservatives to be pro-authoritarian, but Liberals ???

And I've met these morons before.

I was a bartender on the north coast of CA when the ban on smoking in bars came into law. Many of my pot smoking customers thought that this development was real funny.

Until they realized that they had a joint yet no way to light it. They were used to getting their matches from the bar, but because of the law, we hid the ashtrays and the matches behind the bar.

When they realized they were going to have to ask me for a light to be able to go outside and doob up...

Let's just say I got my sweet revenge every now and again, LOL!

:evilgrin:

:hi:

[Ozymanithrax]

109. If the owner of an apartment or a house does not want people to smoke in his property

the smokers should look elsewhere to live.

We are a representative democractic republic not a nanny state. I backed and supported every progressive law and regulation promoting public health that worked to remove smoking from public places where I or my chldren breath. I have no problem with people smoking on their own property. In public areas, where non-smokers also wish to go, the air should be kept clear.

Smokers can choose to smoke or not to smoke. There is not acceptable alternative to breathing.

[laughingliberal]

133. I have no problem with a property owner making this decision about his property

I have a problem with a law which decides it for him.

[Ozymanithrax]

144. I support progressive laws that work to imporve public health standards.

Clean healthy air is a progressive goal.

[laughingliberal]

160. I support adults being allowed to make their own choices in their personal life

Also a progressive value.

[Ozymanithrax]

173. Even if another adults choice to smoke impacts my life and the lives of my children.

If so, that would not be progressive.

[nonconformist]

118. Yeah, because otherwise the air quality in the concrete jungles is PRISTINE

Go outside and take a nice, fresh big deep breath of those toxic auto fumes. Give me a fucking break. I am getting so sick of this crap. They are constantly taking this yet another step, and people who claim they wouldn't take it THAT FAR last time jump right on board.

Like it or not, smoking is LEGAL. If you want to stop people from smoking, petition to have smoking made illegal. Good luck with that.

The last time I lived in a townhouse with a shared wall, the neighbor cooked the most god-awful smelling shit on a regular basis. My favorite was when he would cook up shark steaks. The smell wouldn't leave for DAYS, and would reek up MY curtains and clothes in closets. THAT is a very permeating smell.

I once worked in an office with someone who thought that the way to wear colonge was to douse yourself in half the bottle every morning. It would make my eyes water it was so bad. Then there was the guy who wasn't too fond of personal hygiene. It was always fun to be in the elevator with him.

It's part of living in this world.

I have no issue with the banning of smoking in public buildings like restaurants and stores. No issue whatsoever, I agree with it. But then smokers went outside to smoke. People didn't like that, either, because OHNOES they had to walk past them. And they don't like it when you smoke in your car, because OHNOES they might catch a wiff when they drive past you. Now they don't like when you smoke in your own freaking home. It's going WAY too far, and anyone who says it isn't just isn't being logical. Cooking smells, burning candles, fireplaces, and just general neglect of housekeeping can ALL cause the type of stains and odors that smoking cause.

If you want to live in a pristine, odor-free environment, living in old apartment buildings in a major city probably isn't the place for you.

[alcibiades_mystery]

119. I don't smoke inside, period

Not inside a car, or a bar, or my own home.

And I live in Chicago. It's not a high bar.

[paulsby]

121. perfect example of nannystate nonsense

galloping down a slippery slope.

[dflprincess]

134. How poorly constructed is Tribeca Green that second hand smoke from

a smoker's apartment can be smelled in a nonsmokers?

The building I live in was built in the '60s. The neighbor who lives below me smokes as does one to one side of me and I don't notice any cigarette odor. I've never noticed it in the hallway coming from someone's apartment.

I have, on occasion, noticed some really awful cooking odors, will that be the next thing people go after?

[imdjh]

154. Most buildings smell funny to me.

The elevators at the Watergate smell like pizza and chinese food. The hallways of the Marina Towers smell like bacon on Sunday morning and fresh bread some other times. Hell, I live in a single family home and now and then I'll get a good whiff of someone's ham. My neighbor smokes, and when I meet her at the fence on a humid day, it's kind of nasty, but her smoke never makes it from her patio to my patio.

Almost all the "charming Victiorians" in San Francisco smell like old oil furnace and natural gas me. Others smell like cat piss.

When I lived in an Edwardian walk-up the halls and stairs smelled like pot, cigarettes, a slight touch of ammonia (to be charitable), old carpet, and whatever is cooking.

So I always find it odd when people single out cigarette smoke.

[harmonicon]

141. ...and thus New York becomes even more like one giant shitty shopping mall (nt)

[quiller4]

142. My reaction to this article was "this is news?" because the majority

of apartments in my area (Washington State) have been advertised as non-smoking for quite some time. When my parents sold their home in 1991 and were looking to move into senior apartments, The fact that my mother smoked made it difficult to find a nicer apartment. At least 2 of every 3 complexes we checked were non-smoking only. I would expect that more landlords have adopted this restriction in the intervening years.

[Hello_Kitty]

155. The irony of people living in polluted ass cities worrying about 2nd hand smoke is staggering.

The exhaust fumes you breathe just stepping onto the street are 100x worse than some random cigarette smoke.

[laughingliberal]

161. It's classic scapegoating

I smoke and I don't smoke around non-smokers. I smoke in my car, in my house, and my husband and I smoke in our workshop which is not open to the public. Otherwise, I limit my time around non-smokers who are bothered by it.

[Hello_Kitty]

162. I smoke 4 to 5 cigarettes a day. Always outside and nowhere near anyone.

What bugs me is that if you smoke at all the assumption is that you are like Patty and Selma from The Simpsons, with a cig dangling out of your mouth at all times and overflowing ashtrays.

[laughingliberal]

163. And have you noticed people who have never been exposed to your smoke

still feel some entitlement to rage at you for being a smoker? Can't speak for you but I have had this experience. I actually had a doctor tell me when I was 19 that I would not see 40 if I kept smoking and he raged at me about it. I made a few decisions based on the fact I was not supposed to be here past 40. Now, I'm 52, still smoke, and can't find a single doctor who feels I am at any risk of imminent demise from smoking related illness.

[Hello_Kitty]

165. Oh yeah. Oddly, none of my doctors have given me a hard time about it.

I explain to them that I only smoke a few a day and my BP and other indicators are excellent so it's no biggie to them. They do tend to get on my case about sun exposure since I'm fair skinned.

[onehandle]

166. Exhaust fumes are a byproduct of a useful action. Transportation.

Smoking is an addictive, pointless action.

[Hello_Kitty]

167. And that makes so much difference to the lungs breathing them.

:eyes:

Plus, I'm sure the fumes from trucks delivering $4000 handbags to exclusive boutiques are sooooo useful. :eyes:

[mamaleah]

156. They going to ban pot smoking in apartments too? Or do the other tenants have to smell that as well?

Oh wait...only cigarette smell is gross. Pot smells like daisies.

[hughee99]

164. From now on, when I hear about some neighbor complaining about the smoke

I'll have to first ask what kind of smoke, so I can quickly categorize the neighbor as either someone interested in health and their rights (if they're complaining about tobacco) or as a narc trampling the rights of good people who aren't hurting anyone.

Change this story from tobacco to pot, and this thread looks completely different.

[mamaleah]

171. Of course it would be totally different.

I think it is because pot smokers do not think these little pesky laws would ever apply to them.

[onehandle]

170. They both smell like burning shit. nt

[mamaleah]

172. Very true. nt.

[boppers]

177. ITT: self righteousness, even from people who drive cars, burn candles, or BBQ!

Nothing like a good cause to stoke the flames of being super-perfect!

[onehandle]

182. Cars provide transportation, candles light, BBQ food.

Smoking provides nothing but addiction and health problems.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

180. ANYONE who can afford ciggies these days, can afford nicotine gum.

And not harm others with their addiction. Or they could quit, even if they have to chew gum and candy the rest of their lives to do so.

My dad quit cold turkey, and said it was harder than stopping drinking whiskey cold. I don't think they had quitting programs when he stopped in the early 1960s.

My mom kept smoking till 1968 and I was permanently lung damaged by both of them smoking.

He chewed gum all his life and said he never wanted to look at another lemon drop.

Find something else to do with your hands, like knitting, crocheting, building model airplanes, working on cars, welding, polishing silver, cooking, gardening, painting, playing a musical instrument?? :D

[uberblonde]

183. I find all this fascinating.

After all, when I first developed severe reactions to smoke two decades ago, no one especially cared that I could no longer go out and socialize. No more bars, music clubs or restaurants. If I was in a smoke-filled place, my eyes would start watering so bad, I couldn't see. My ears would close up and I couldn't hear properly for a few days after. (And that's not even mentioning the sinus infections that followed like clockwork.)

I'm a musician, but performing was limited to the few low-paying coffeehouses that banned smoking. My options were greatly limited. I don't remember anyone giving a shit, frankly. As long as they could get to smoke, they didn't care about me.

Now that I can go out and about like a human being, the smokers are complaining about how they're living in a fascist nanny state. Well, I was pretty damned oppressed by your smoking anarchy.

And as to the people who say smoke is an irritant and not a true allergy: If you were the one trudging to the doctor's for yet another round of antibiotics because of this "irritant," maybe you'd understand.

I recently heard from a long-lost friend on Facebook, and she asked me to meet her at a bar. I didn't realize until I got there that it was exempted from the state smoking ban, and even though it was well ventilated, I stank like an ashtray after we left. (We only stayed an hour before I convinced her to go somewhere else.) Then I had to go home, flush my sinuses with saline, take a shower and wash my hair before I went to bed. No luck - I still had pounding sinuses and ear problems the next day.

The only friend I have who still rails against the smoking laws is a smoker. She complains that she "had to stop going to bars" because it's such an indignity that she can't have a cigarette with her beer. She doesn't acknowledge that she's only slightly inconvenienced, not actually HARMED - the way I was, all those years.

It's been my lifelong experience that people are only empathetic to these problems AFTER they've stopped smoking.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

193. I'm a musician too.

I wanted to perform but if it was not in a church, then they probably smoked and I would get sick in exactly two days with a horrible sinus infection and bronchitis. I know where you are coming from.

I love to sing too, and I can't go to karaoke nights either. I'm actually a pretty good singer.

[laughingliberal]

187. Nicotine replacement products have not worked particularly well for the hard core group

There is a group of smokers, who have been studied, that do not seem to be able to quit no matter what happens. Likely, a large number of these are the ones still smoking.

Some statistics: 90% of people with ADD and ADHD smoke. Nicotine seems to increase substances in the brain (probably dopamine) that increases their concentration.

People who have ulcerative colitis and smoke rarely have flareups of their condition due to the fact that nicotine is a smooth muscle relaxer (interestingly, this is the explanation my doctor gave for the fact that my asthma attacks stopped when I started smoking at 12).

There are other conditions smokers find get worse if they quit. Most of these fail many attempts at quitting. Some make it, eventually, others never do.

For whatever reason, the nicotine replacement products currently on the market do not hit the same receptors in the brain or the colon (or the bronchus) that are blanketed when smoking. For this reason they have not worked well for smokers in this group. I once had a doctor who had been head of neuro-psych for VA tell me that if we could find a non-fatal delivery system for nicotine that could target the same receptors we could throw all the other anti-depressants and most of the anti-anxiety drugs on the market in the dumpster.

I know the pharmaceutical companies are working diligently to find a way to target the nicotine more specifically. It is looked at as a treatment for ADD/ADHD, depression, various forms of colitis, and quite a few other problems. If they ever find a way to target specific receptors with it, they'll clean up, financially.

[beyond cynical]

189. Why not go ahead and criminalize tobacco?

After all, we certainly need another illegal drug being sold on the black market.

[laughingliberal]

192. Would be a huge boon to the for profit prison industry nt

[ZombieHorde]

196. Stuff a toilet paper tube with dryer sheets and blow your smoke through it.

The smoke will come out smelling like the dryer sheets. I have only seen this tested with marijuana, not tobacco, but this may be worth a try if you need to get around a law or rule. This definitely works for marijuana.

The problem with tobacco smoke is it is mostly consumed by cigarette, as opposed to pipe. A pipe can be "capped" with a lighter, while a cigarette continues to burn, so the cigarette smokes considerably more between inhales.

Tobacco smokers who want to smoke in forbidden places, such as their apartment, may benefit from checking out their local head shops. A pipe which is easy to cap or a pinch hitter (bat, one-hitter, dug-out) may come in handy.

[laughingliberal]

199. Yes, and the electronic cigarettes are another option

The juice vaporized in them comes in many flavors and is not generally offensive. It also dissipates well. Would be shocked to find any residual aroma survives past the time of use or that the vapor could be perceived by anyone not standing right next to the person. I find they work for me in places where I can not smoke.

[ZombieHorde]

200. Sounds like a better solution than my high school sneaky pot smoking solution.

People had to be sneaky during prohibition, people may need to be sneaky once again.

[Codeine]

203. The dryer sheet thing doesn't work.

Stoners always think it works, but they aren't as aware of the smell as others are. An old roommate of mine tried it and I smelled that shit before I even opened the front door.

[Ter]

197. The NYC Council is a dictatorship

With zero regard for the Constitution. I am tired of more and more new laws every year. Is this America?

[UnderDem]

201. No problem with this, but on one condition.

If Bloomberg is so ardently determined to have the whole city follow in his footsteps and quit smoking, he should certainly be willing to foot the bill PERSONALLY for the medical treatment necessary to help people quit. It is not easy to quit smoking. Doctors who treat heroin addicts know better than to try to get them to quit smoking because the withdrawal symptoms can kill them. I lost my mom to heart disease and she was a 3-pack-per-day smoker. It's a horrible habit and people should not smoke around children. But quitting is hard. Bloomy should put his considerable money where his considerable mouth is.

And another thing: The beach? Where the wind blows usually no less than 20 mph? I think that's a bit extreme. I could certainly see banning it from the perspective of pollution, but not really for health reasons. I think smoking/non-smoking sections of the beach might be reasonable, but not an all-out ban. At least until Mayor Bloomberg pays for everyone to quit...

[crim son]

207. Well, yeah, just as long as anybody who continues to smoke

pays in full for any medical treatment they might require as a result of their addiction. Fair's fair, right?

[IrishBuckeye]

204. First I can't cook my crystal meth and now this? Jeeze!

Sure Crystal Meth production releases chemicals that harms others even if they aren't fist hand users as does second hand cigarette smoke but what about my rights? Why can't I have the right to behavior that has no redeeming value and harms others?

[Dappleganger]

208. My smoking mother-in-law never smokes in her home.

She was taught to always keep it outside, even in freezing weather. They live in FL now so she'll smoke at the edge of their pool area, away from the door. I remember her going to her garage for years when they lived in MD and sitting in the garage door area w/it open and puffing away. Neither dh nor any of his other three brothers smoke, btw (or his dad). Grandma never, ever smokes around the grandchildren, either because she doesn't want to be a bad example and our kids are all asthmatic.