Microsoft's Bill Gates Praises Apple's Steve Jobs For 'Saving the Company'

[onehandle]

Source: CNBC

Microsoft's Bill Gates had some words of praise today for Steve Jobs, the CEO of arch-rival Apple, despite the blistering "Mac and PC" television ads that sharply, and humorously, criticize the new Windows 7 operating system.

snip...

QUESTION: If you could just comment and tell us what your thoughts are on the job Steve Jobs has done as the CEO of Apple? (Audience laughs as Gates smiles.)

GATES: Well, he's done a fantastic job. Apple is in a bit of a different business where they make hardware and software together. But when Steve was coming back to Apple, which was actually through an acquisition of NeXT that he ran, Apple was in very tough shape.

In fact, most likely it wasn't going to survive. And he brought in a team, he brought in inspiration about great products and design that's made Apple back into being an incredible force in doing good things. And it's great to have competitors like that. We write software for Apple, Microsoft does. They compete with Apple. But he, of all the leaders in the industry that I've worked with, he showed more inspiration and he saved the company.

Read more: http://www.cnbc.com/id/33896512/site/14081545

[Captain Hilts]

1. Good on Gates. nt

[GreenTea]

20. Right, after Gates stole Apple's ideas (still does) tried to bury Apple through the years-Now Gates

jumps on the bandwagon of a very sucessful, powerful Steve Jobs & Apple by pretending that he's been in Apple's corner all along....One has to ask, what does Bill Gates want for Bill Gates, by praising Steve Jobs & Apple?

[Joe Bacon]

31. Remember who stole it first

Seems Xerox had all the pieces of a Mac in their PARC before the Mac hit the market. But Xerox's management didn't have the foresight to patent things like the mouse or GUI...

[alfredo]

41. The "stole" story has been debunked for

over a decade.


http://www.mackido.com/Interface/ui_history.html

[imdjh]

36. "on"?

[Deja Q]

2. Okay, that is weird...

http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Windows_7_Inspired_from_Mac_OS_X_Microsoft/551-107462-580.html

That's even weirder, albeit non-surprising...

Maybe a little bit: Win7's GUI, at a glance, looks more like a ripoff of KDE, but whatever... The registry still exists so I know MS hasn't improved much under the hood.

[Statistical]

5. Registry while pain for home users is indispensible for enterprise support.

The ability to control a wide variety of settings, security options, configurations of not just windows but also applications via one location is indispensable in bringing down TCO.

Registry will never go away.

Microsoft should push developers to use registry only when needed. Internal settings that can't/shouldn't be changed by admin shouldn't be put in registry they should be accessed via some internal program configuration.

[cliffordu]

6. Does anyone actually know what everything in Registry does?

I read some time ago that no one did. I wonder if they got it cleaned up...

[Statistical]

8. I doubt a single person knows that every line does but that is common on any large system.

No single person has read every line of healthcare bill.
No single person knows what every wire in an aircraft carriers is for.
No single person knows what every line of code in an operating system does.

As humans build more and more complex system it becomes impossible for a single person (due to limits of our biological hardware) to be a complete expert.

I do agree though the registry needs some work both by Microsoft and by vendors however the integration between Active Directory, Security Policies and registry is very tight.
It isn't going anywhere so a more realistic solution is how to "fix" it.

[imdjh]

35. Scotty does.

[jaybeat]

21. So shouldn't the TCO of Windoze machines be less than that of OS X machines?

;-)

[Statistical]

27. Yeah they are and that is why Mac marketshare in enterprise world is essentially 0.0%

[jaybeat]

39. Bwahahaha! Please tell me you're joking!

CIO Magazine: Eight Financial Reasons Why You Should Use Mac OS

http://www.cio.com/article/127050/Eight_Financial_Reasons_Why_You_Should_Use_Mac_OS

Network World: "Owning a WinTel box for three years costs twice as much as owning a MacTel."

http://www.networkworld.com/best/2006/022706bestbreaker-schwartau.html?page=1

Roughly Drafted: Windows 5 times More Expensive than MacOS

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Home/660E746C-F388-4AC7-98F5-6CB951501472.html

Nash Networks: "Despite somewhat higher hardware costs, Mac TCO is lower than that of Windows."

http://www.nashnetworks.ca/pros-cons-and-costs-of-operating-systems.htm

Computerworld: Mac OS X 'an ideal platform' for SMBs

"the Mac's overall total cost of ownership (TCO)"

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9012003/Opinion_Mac_OS_X_an_ideal_platform_for_SMBs?pageNumber=1


:rofl:

[Regret My New Name]

14. I fail to see why MS taking the 'best' features of other desktop enviroments and using them is a bad

thing. I mean, seems like a damned if they do and damned if they don't situation for them... I see little issues with the registry, to be honest. I've personally never had any major registry problems of my own, and haven't seen anyone else have such issues in a very long time.

[jaybeat]

22. That's not what MS has done

They've generally taken good ideas (or sometimes entire products, see PC-DOS) and made gazillions off of selling them, without attributing the creators of the original ideas (or paying any royalties). Then they try and bully their superior competitors out of the market with anti-competitive tactics (see Netscape vs Internet Explorer).

And no matter what, their versions of said good ideas are almost always horrendously inferior to the originals they stole from. But when you're a monopoly you can be mediocre and still rake in the dough! (Though not always; see Zune vs iPod!)

:rofl:

[jmowreader]

24. The problem is, they DIDN'T do that

The best feature of Mac OS X is the OS's complete refusal to format the startup volume. They did this on purpose. If the same thing were implemented in Microsoft operating systems, all the viruses that wipe your hard drive would not exist.

[B3Nut]

29. Back in the DOS days, my boss was formatting floppies

and accidentally typed format C: . He blithely OK'd the prompts, then realized that he had wiped out the payroll system. He quickly booted off a restore floppy, restoring from the last night's backup tape. Sweating bullets the whole time! Fortunately, it was successful. But that should not be possible. Ah, the joys of IT Oops stories.... ;) Like the time I killed the servers bumping into the power switch on the UPS...VVVVVVVVvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv...<crickets>....FOCK! :D

[jmowreader]

37. Sounds like someone needed to give your boss a little lesson in DOS commands

"Sir, I see you're formatting floppies by inserting each one then typing 'format a:' over and over again. Doesn't typing the same shit over and over again really suck? Look: if you push F3 instead it will type 'format A:' for you."

'Oh cool! Thanks!'

Small computers like PCs and Macs need something we had long ago on the old CDC pack drives: a switch in the back to turn off the hard drive's write amplifier so you CAN'T format the hard drive.

[AnneD]

15. I suspect Steve jobs

will be dying of pancreatic cancer soon. Bill is being decent to praise him now when he can hear than at the funeral.

[Hyper_Eye]

28. KDE and OS X have obviously borrowed from each other for a long time.

It is obvious to me that Windows 7 borrows some major interface ideas from OS X. In particular I would point to Explorer (which looks amazingly like finder now) and the taskbar. I would point out that OS X came out with the modern look of Finder before Dolphin emerged with the development of KDE4. Also, with the plasma desktop the default taskbar has the standard labeled-button-with-icons look as opposed to the new look of Windows 7 taskbar which is obviously inspired by OS X. My point here is that I am certain that OS X and Linux (both KDE and Gnome) borrow from each other. Because of that Windows would naturally inherit some Linux-like interface features when borrowing from OS X. When I first fired up Windows 7 I was stunned by how much was inspired by OS X. I don't really think that Microsoft looks at Linux for inspiration because they have expressed their distaste for all things Linux time and time again. Linux scares the crap out of them for one. I also think they look down on it because of its decentralized community-based model and free availability. They respect OS X more because it more closely matches their model of software development and I think they consider their model to be superior to the open-source model (even though Apple does use open-source software and contribute back to the community particularly with the availability of their kernel.) They even develop for OS X having released a number of versions of Office for it as well as porting many of their Microsoft Games to it.

Just to note, my main desktop runs Linux and it has for the last decade. I am a Gentoo and KDE fan. Sitting next to my main desktop is a Mac that I always keep the current version of OS X on. I have not been without a Mac in the last 5 years. I also got rid of my full tower server running x86 Linux and replaced it with a G4 PowerPC Mac running ppc Linux. I do have a laptop that is a Windows 7 and Fedora 11 dual-boot. The laptop came from factory with Windows Vista but it had a lot of problems (particularly once dual-booted because Vista does not like something else being in the MBR and I had to wipe GRUB out every time I wanted to apply any updates and then boot the system with a livecd and chroot the system to recover it.) Windows 7 has solved those problems and my dual-boot configuration is working fine now. So far Windows 7 has been very solid for me and the performance is quite impressive in comparison to Vista. I am also pleased with the interface. I keep so many operating systems around because I am a software engineer and I write portable code. In order to ensure my code is portable I need all these platforms readily available. I generally do my development on Linux and then compile it on the other systems to test portability.

[meegbear]

3. Good for him!

At the WWDC in 2004, I remember Jobs talking about how he and Bill do get together at least once a year for dinner and talk. Glad their competitiveness is an asset for both.

[Ter]

19. At lunch

Do they fight over who pays the bill?

[meegbear]

26. LOL - Dunno

[boppers]

32. Steve pays for the bill.

Bill uses the food recipes.

[tularetom]

4. He should praise him since he copied the Mac GUI 20 years ago

And has been fucking it up ever since.

[Regret My New Name]

12. Shouldn't he praise PARC then?

[Statistical]

16. Exactly.

Apple heavily "copied" Xerox PARC when designing first Mac OS.

When Apple tried to sue Microsoft (unsuccessfully) for stealing GUI from Apple, Xerox counter sued Apple for "stealing" GUI from them.
The case was dismissed due to length of time Xerox took to bring a suit after the fact.

The idea that Apple was solely responsible for GUI is silly. It is like any other innovation it required the supporting hardware. The idea of GUI driven OS and applications has been in science fiction for decades. Computer Scientists theorized about it 40 years prior. However until the 1980s computer power hadn't reached a point where it was viable.

The emergence of "low cost" ($800 Intel 80286 16bit) modern CPU, graphical displays, and emergence of personal computers made that theory a reality.

By early 80s multiple companies were working of GUI for data management and application control.

Apple - Lisa
Tandy - Deskmate
Atari - GEM
Amiga - Workbench
Unix - X-windows
Sun - NEWS

None of them really caught on until mouse became mainstream in mid 1980s. A GUI without a mouse (using slow and imprecise cursor keys) is very cumbersome. Microsoft concentrated on DOS in early 80s because it was a commercial success. Try using Windows or OS X without a mouse, it is far easier to just use command line. It actually was the first mass produced computer mice got Microsoft interested in a GUI for OS control. Microsoft had done internal experiments on GUI since 1981 but saw little commercial value in it until the mouse.

It was the computer mouse that turned the GUI from a geeky toy to a productivity tool.

[Dreamer Tatum]

17. And another Hindenberg of Apple Sanctimony goes DOWN. Thanks nt

[Statistical]

18. A little more info from the court case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microsoft_Corporation

The funny thing is that neither company is really a direct competitor.

Apple does well because it is a closed system. Apple will never grow beyond say 20% marketshare without a opening the system.
To do that will costs them massive margins on their products (mac have about 40% profit margin) and add billions in costs to make OS X work on multiple hardware platforms.

On the other hand Microsoft largest problems are the complexity in dealing with billions of possible hardware combinations across thousands of hardware vendors.
Microsoft could adopt a model similar to Apple in tightly coupling hardware & software but that would destroy their relationship with vendors and reduce marketshare.

Apple = high profit per unit + low volume
Microsoft = low profit per unit + high volume

Neither company really has any interest in going after each others market.
Apple could become exclusively a software company (selling OS X on HP computers for example) tomorrow
Microsoft could become a hardware & software hybrid tomorrow.
Neither wants to.

[Dreamer Tatum]

25. Solid insights, as always nt

[boppers]

33. Icon: Xerox.

Desktop: Apple
Folder: Apple
Contextual cursor: Xerox
Mouse: Xerox
File hints to indicate an application (now known as a resource fork, or, in more broken formats under QDOS, an extension): Apple
Desktop GUI: Apple

PARC's STAR was a huge piece of shit, using massive computing to create a GUI. Apple's hardware was pathetic shit, but also created a GUI for less than 10K per machine.

Did Apple steal the STAR PARC GUI ideas? Yes. Once they did, Gates and co. stole Apple's ideas.

You see, the bone of contention is not that MS was "a thief just like Apple", but that "MS was a thief from Apple". MS didn't just steal from PARC, they stole Apple's improvements upon PARC.

[onehandle]

38. Right. Microsoft stole from Apple's innovations.

Indisputable.

Period.

[David Zephyr]

40. Yes, for those who want to learn more, see the documentary "Triumph of the Nerds."

Quite a tale.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

7. When was the last time Apple made any hardware?

Computer hardware that is...

[Statistical]

9. Very very very long time.

Even PowerPC based systems were made by IBM (for CPU, north bridge, south bridge) and various OEM for the parts.
The iPhone is made by a Chinese company.

Apple is a software services company. They simply use required proprietary hardware as a vehicle for software sales.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

10. This tells me really how much Bill Gates is "out of touch"

[Statistical]

11. One of the things Apple does well...

if they use comodity components (same motherboard, cpu, graphic card, ram, and hard drives) as other PC makers but they spend a lot of time & money on attention to detail.
I am not just talking about brushed aluminum cases but also cooling requires, power requirements, cable layouts, etc.

Some PC seem like the companies just slam a bunch of parts in a box with no consideration on amount of heat, noise, vibration, or mess it will make. Not all but enough.
Of course when you have 40% profit margins it is easy to do that. The PC companies are starting to catch on. HP Envy laptops look real nice and reviews are good.
Cost a little more but substantially better build quality.

Maybe? That is what Gates was talking about but likely you are right he is out of touch.

[Psephos]

30. Apple invents the devices, then partners with custom mfrs to design and build the hardware.

The makers of digital electronic devices are universally dependent upon multiple component suppliers. No one makes all the components themselves...it would be utter economic and technological folly. As in the auto industry, the quality and success of the end product depends upon the innovation, market sense, and logistical skill of the company as much as upon the engineering talent. It does not depend upon making all the components.

Using a 21st Century meaning of the word manufacturing, Apple is making computers and iPhones in the same sense that GM is making cars.

There are good histories of the development of the iPod or the iPhone that can illuminate how the company's internal development and manufacturing process works. It's not what you are thinking, and it is a strong example of American technical excellence. ;)

Here's a good story to start with.

http://www.wired.com/gadgets/wireless/magazine/16-02/ff_iphone

[boppers]

34. Define "made"?

Did Woz etch 68K chips, by hand?

You should clarify your point.

[Taverner]

13. Gates and Jobs have had a love hate thing forever

The wind was driving in my face
The smell of prickly pear
My rival - show me my rival
The milk truck eased into my space
Somebody screamed somewhere
I struck a match against the door
Of Anthony's Bar and Grill
I was the whining stranger
A fool in love
With time to kill

I've got detectives on his case
They filmed the whole charade
My rival - show me my rival
He's got a scar across his face
He wears a hearing aid

Sure he's a jolly roger
Until he answers for his crime
Yes I'll match him whim for whim now

I still recall when I first held
Your tiny hand in mine
My rival - show me my rival
I loved you more than I can tell
But now it's stomping time

Sure he's a jolly roger
Until he answers for his crime
Yes I'll match him whim for whim now

[phasma ex machina]

23. Re: Steve Jobs, the CEO of ??? arch-rival ??? Apple

Does Micro$oft still own Apple stock?

If so, how can Apple be an "arch-rival" of Microshaft?