In Tokyo, Obama Makes Concession on Marine Base

[bemildred]

Source: NYT

TOKYO — President Obama, seeking to mend fences with Japan, America’s most important Asian ally, announced on Friday that he would establish a high-level working group on the contentious issue of the continuing presence of a Marine base in Okinawa.

The decision, announced at a news conference just a few hours after he touched down in Tokyo to begin his first presidential trip to Asia, appears to represent a concession by the Obama administration to at least consider Japan’s concerns. It comes less than a month after Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates seemed to shut the door on renegotiating a deal reached in 2006 to relocate the United States Marine air base in Futenma to a less populated part of the island.

Mr. Obama’s visit comes at a time when the two allies are grappling with recent shifts in their overall relationship and Japan’s newly elected prime minister, Yukio Hatoyama, searches for a more “equal partnership.” On Friday, both leaders emphasized the importance of the relationship, and stressed that the two sides were seeing eye to eye. Standing beside Mr. Obama at the Japanese equivalent of the White House, the Kantei, Mr. Hatoyama said, “We’ve come to call each other Barack and Yukio, and gotten quite accustomed to calling each other by our names.”

But White House officials said that the United States had agreed only to talks “on the implementation” of the Okinawa agreement, and said they did not expect to alter the larger shape of the agreement, which also calls for relocating about 8,000 Marines to Guam. Japan policy experts indicated that the establishment of the working group is likely only a face-saving way for Mr. Hatoyama to tell the Japanese public that he is keeping his campaign promise.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/14/world/asia/14prexy.html

[apnu]

1. Is it even relevant that we have a base there anymore?

Just looking at the issue in terms of cost effectiveness... wouldn't it make more sense to close this base and bases like it? Considering how expensive our military is, and how financially strapped the Federal Government is, it seems to me that closing bases is a great way to save precious dollars that we need here at home for important things like roads, bridges, water... you know, the basics.

[arthritisR_US]

2. your logic is too sound ;-) n/t

[psychopomp]

7. No.

Japan's stratgic location lends the bases there (here) a good deal of utility. When Russia, China and NK start looking a lot friendlier then we can pull up the stakes on this side of the Pacific. The Japanese pay for most of the expenses of maintaining those bases anyhow.

[Lorien]

46. That type of logic isn't permitted in Washington

we need our 700+ bases in 200+ countries just...because. :shrug:

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

3. Ironically, on a day to day basis it isn't really the soldiers the locals hate - its their wives

who having nothing better to do just get smashed and be generally obnoxious in public,

[KansDem]

23. Really? I hadn't heard that...

It makes sense, though. I once had an uncle and an aunt who moved to the very rural hills surrounding Muskogee, OK. You had to take a dirt road off a small county road to get to their house. He was "semi-retired" and was away a lot (traveling salesman), while she stayed at home. I think when they lived in town, she had activities she could do each day, but way out in the hills with no neighbors and nothing to do, she took to drinking and wound up a terrible lush.

Its amazing what isolation and booze will do to a person.

I wonder if its the same way with the wives you described in your OP. Perhaps they feel isolated in a foreign country where they don't understand the culture and language so they drink and be obnoxious.

[ShortnFiery]

44. It makes little to no sense to me. I was with my AD husband on Okinawa for three years.

Damn if I bothered to get drunk ... even one time. :eyes: Of course, I'm an addiction certified counselor with a masters level degree. Coffee (caffeine) has always been my drug of choice.

I was busy with my a newborn baby born a few months after we arrived on Island. However, there were some wives who liked to get out and about a lot. Perhaps a few imbibed in adult beverages? :shrug:

HOWEVER, the native people resented the active duty military dating their young women. At the time there was a rape trial involving an Airman and a 16 y.o. Okinawan girl. You could say that the tensions were high.

Yes, perhaps some wives were out of line and "party animals" but by no means was this behavior rampant enough to even reach gossip level conversation among other military wives.

Methinks someone may have known some "unusual wives" ? Or has an ox to gore?

[David__77]

4. Japan would find a more respectful partner in China.

Hopefully Obama will proceed to develop bilateral relations of equality.

[WriteDown]

5. And Japanese men love Chinese women...

so that would work out well.

[David__77]

6. The human relations aspect is very important.

I don't understand why the personnel are not confined to base. That would solve most of these problems.

[WriteDown]

12. Its a base, not a prison. nt.

[psychopomp]

9. No, they don't

Speaking as someone who has spent most of his adult life in Japan I can tell you that that is not the case. There are some marriages between the two peoples but there is no major trend there.

[WriteDown]

11. You're talking nonsense....

Japanese men often "romanced" Chinese women during WWII.

[Bonobo]

20. Have you no room for anything but the TINY amount of things you know?

[WriteDown]

26. I don't think you get it.....as usual. nt

[Regret My New Name]

24. ....

[sudopod]

25. Do you have a rotation or something?

Japanese on Friday, Mexicans on the weekend?

I think you should work Swedes in on Tuesdays, what with their always being smug about their low unemployment, affordable furniture, and tallness.

[WriteDown]

27. I've often spoke about how we need a Swedish style

healthcare system if you've kept up. The real question is "do you get the joke?"


A little light reading material.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan

[sudopod]

28. What I don't get is why you don't just

have to be hateful, you want everyone else to feel the same way. Yes, I read your Wikipedia article. OH GOD HOW COULD I STAND AGAINST IT'S POWER?!

Being white in Japan is, at worst, better than being black in Mississippi. Humanity is good at being a lot of hateful assholes, do you want a Nobel Prize for figuring that one out?

And what does your personal war against Japan have to do with closing an unwanted base on Okinawa, which is itself only sort of Japanese?

[WriteDown]

29. You have it 100% backwards....

I love Japan. I would go there all the time if I could. Was supposed to bring the girlfriend before Christmas this year, but wedding plans interfered. I don't pretend like there aren't problems though. There is a reason why Japanese towns are literally disappearing.

[Bonobo]

30. Oh wise one, what is the reason why "Japanese towns are disappearing"? nt

[WriteDown]

32. Myriad

http://www.japanesestudies.org.uk/discussionpapers/Chapple.html

[Bonobo]

33. Great, another link!

Wow, you're a whiz at Google!

[Hekate]

35. You mean like the Rape of Nanking? The "comfort women"? That kind of romance?

:wtf:

What are you talking about?

Hekate

[WriteDown]

36. It was a joke pointing out the bad blood that exists

between the Japanese and Chinese.

[ShortnFiery]

45. +1

From my interactions with native Okinawans during my three years residence, FWIW, I fully concur with your perspective. :thumbsup:

[psychopomp]

8. Surely you jest

Case in point: Chinese govt-orchestated protests/attacks on Japanese embassies two years back. Chinese have a deep distrust and in many cases hate for Japanese people in general.

[David__77]

10. They don't hate Japanese people, just the right-wing miltarists.

Just the Japanese who deny their crimes during the war - they are like Holocaust revisionists. Who wouldn't hate that minority of Japanese?

[WriteDown]

13. Not sure how many Japanese you are in regular contact with...

Call it what you will Japanese nationalism, xenophobia, etc, but the Japanese consider themselves to be a cut above other races and people (especially Koreans). Take my childhood friend who has been in the US since he was 12. He went to a great college, became a wealthy doctor, but will not become an American citizen even though he lives here, married a beautiful White woman, and probably will never leave. I've asked him why a few times and he says because he is Japanese and not an American.

[sudopod]

14. :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3

Take my childhood friend who has been in France since he was 12. He went to a great college, became a wealthy doctor, but will not become a French citizen even though he lives there, married a beautiful French woman, and probably will never leave. I've asked him why a few times and he says because he is American and not French.

[ShortnFiery]

15. Too funny! My best friend was born and raised in France and now married to an American.

Although she is happily married, she will not become an American Citizen. Why? Because she is an French Citizen and not an American.

See how that works for BOTH? NATIONALISTIC PRIDE is not exclusive to Americans.

[sudopod]

16. Absolutely! nt

[ShortnFiery]

17. ...

IMO, most peoples of the world take pride in their native and/or adopted "home-land."

:toast:

[Name removed]

18. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tracer]

21. It takes all kinds.

My neice's husband is French and is in the process of becoming an American citizen.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hekate]

34. You're joking, right? China is not a benign partner to anyone on Earth.

At all.

Hekate

[David__77]

42. No I'm not.

China has done a lot to facilitate peace and development.

[Hekate]

43. Sure it has.

[proteus_lives]

49. Examples please.

[Codeine]

48. He's been an apologist for dictators for a long time.

Ignore him.

[hack89]

37. China will never forgive WWII. nt

[Romulox]

38. David_77 would find a more useful pasttime in cracking a history book!

:silly:

[David__77]

41. Please....

I've read far too many such books. The strategic perspective of China's leadership is not dictated or constrained by events from the 1930s.

[sudopod]

31. It seems pretty straightforward doesn't it?

We have a base on their island and they pay for most of it. They want to move it somewhere else on the same island. What's the problem?

[WriteDown]

47. By the way. It happened.

:)

[Romulox]

39. It's easy: Shut it down!

[Bonobo]

40. ROFLMAO!

I want to hate you, Romulux, but you make it tough ;)