Catholic Church gives D.C. ultimatum (over marriage)

[Newsjock]

Source: Washington Post

The Catholic Archdiocese of Washington said Wednesday that it will be unable to continue the social service programs it runs for the District if the city doesn't change a proposed same-sex marriage law, a threat that could affect tens of thousands of people the church helps with adoption, homelessness and health care.

Under the bill, headed for a D.C. Council vote next month, religious organizations would not be required to perform or make space available for same-sex weddings. But they would have to obey city laws prohibiting discrimination against gay men and lesbians.

Fearful that they could be forced, among other things, to extend employee benefits to same-sex married couples, church officials said they would have no choice but to abandon their contracts with the city.

... Several D.C. Council members said the Catholic Church is trying to erode the city's long-standing laws protecting gay men and lesbians from discrimination.


Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/11/AR2009111116943.html?hpid=topnews

[fascisthunter]

1. Separation of Church and State

in other words, go fuck yourselves...!And for those who want to get married, fuck the church! You don't need them, they needed you.

[lsewpershad]

17. What Hypocrites

They will stop doing their "god's" work because people CHOOSE who to LOVE. What hypocrites who claim that their god is LOVE. I guess their god hates gays.

[Angry Dragon]

19. They would tell you their god does not like gays

I read some place in the last few days that within the Bible having something to do with David that one of his sons perhaps was gay and it said god was still with him.

But when you can rewrite the bible at your whim who can say how long that will last.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

95. Jesus wouldn't like them holding people to ramsom either

the church is deplorable

[zbdent]

107. I didn't know the Conservative Bible was out yet ...

I guess that all the teachings of Jesus would be about as long as the "Republican Health Care Plan" they held up during Obama's speech ...

[AlbertCat]

116. within the Bible having something to do with David

Could that be the relationship David had with Saul's son Jonathan?

In Handel's oratorio "Saul", David sings a lament after Jonathan is killed in battle with the line "And more than woman's love was my wondrous love to thee"

[Angry Dragon]

169. I believe that is the one I ran across........

and it said then that God was still with him

[NashVegas]

99. It's Called "Interdict"

And it's perfectly within their rights as an organization. This is separation of church & state at its finest.

Personally, I think they'll lose this one, ultimately.

[derby378]

143. And even then the diocese is coming across as a gutless wonder

During the Renaissance period, when the Vatican placed your city or nation under interdict, that was it - no more Roman Catholic sermons, baptisms, marriages, funerals, ordinations, or anything else. Priests and monks had to clear out if they wanted to continue in their orders, and layman Catholics remained within the interdicted area at their own risk. Even confession for the venial sin of overeating was forbidden. The churches were locked tight, the clergy was nowhere to be seen, nothin'.

So this little threat looks rather pathetic compared to how the Vatican responded to Henry VIII.

[NashVegas]

144. Yep - And People Were a LOT More Superstitious Then

Which is why previous interdicts had more effect; Henry was lucky enough to have an alternative to give to people - some of whom were ready for it.

This might well hit the city in the pocketbook though; we'll see.

[robinlynne]

188. or the church. You can't "not honor a contract".

[Newsjock]

2. Thanks for the unrec

Glad to see that certain parts of DU still want me to sit in the back of the bus and shut up.

Edit: Also glad to see that the rest of DU disagrees with that assessment.

[Nancy Waterman]

6. This is infuriating!!!

The Church is actually threatening DC and trying to pit gay people and their supporters against the poor. I hope DC tells the Church they can take their toys and go home. It is bad enough DC has to deal with their self-absorbed congressional overlords to get anything done.

[CatholicEdHead]

80. Yes it is

Just for the record, the new Archbishop I believe came from the military diocese and is a fast climber. This is why he is threatening DC, to get attention from Rome. Notice how Catholic Charities still works in all states that do have gay marriage (MA, IA, etc...). This is a local thing to get noticed and up the ante more. I would expect because you cannot have an amendment against it in DC proper and this would break their streak of voters rejecting it they are pushing now.

[happyslug]

105. Bishop Wuerl came from Pittsburgh...

Wuerl's main job in Pittsburgh was to close down most of the Ethnic Churches in the City itself and consolidate local parishes (Pittsburgh, like most Dioceses expanded into the suburbs in the 50s, 60s, 70s and even today, while keeping its old parishes in Pittsburgh proper open, even as the parishioners moved to the suburbs). The older Ethnic Churches had extensive roots in the older parts of Allegheny County and many people went to them long after they left for the suburbs. The problem was the Catholic Church had to many churches in the older areas of Pittsburgh (It was NOT unusual to have a German Catholic Church, a Polish Catholic Church, a Lithuanian Catholic Church, a Hungarian Catholic Church and an Italian Catholic Church all within blocks of each other on the South Side of Pittsburgh and other areas of the city as while). The Catholic Church has always wanted to merge all of these ethnic churches but the parishioners always fought back. Wuerl's job was to consolidate these churches. In my opinion it was needed, but Wuerl should have made a greater effort at getting community support for the consolidation then he did (Basically he came up with a plan for all of the Catholic Church within block of each other to merge into one parish and "share" most of the Churches in that new Parish, Wuerl also sold off those Churches he thought he could sell which did not endear him to his Pittsburgh Flock).

I hate to say it again, Wuerl is up to his old ways, trying to force a change that is unpopular but a change he wants. As to the proposed regulations, nothing is in them that will affect the Catholic Church but he has decided to show the Vatican he is standing up for the Independence of the Catholic Church. Typical Wuerl grandstanding.

Anyway, the dispute as to the closing of the old churches has cause some problems for Wuerl, the traditional advancement in the United States is Pittsburgh (or some other city) to Philadelphia and then New York City (The New York City Dioceses controls which Catholic priests go into the Military NOT the DC Dioceses). Furthermore, the Vatican and the United have Diplomatic relations, so Wuerl will NOT be involved in any action in Congress that is up to the Papal Nuncio
(The Vatican Ambassador) not the Bishop of DC. While it is a technical promotion (The Diocese of DC is run by an Arch-Bishop NOT just a Bishop) but in real term there is no difference between a Bishop and an Arch-Bishop, the key is what that Bishop does as part of his Diocise. In the case of DC, it is a minor spot compared to New York City and has been made more minor since the Vatican and the US restroed relations under Reagan.

This has always brought up the question why was Wuerl was transferred to DC. On its face it is a promotion, Bishop to Arch-Bishop, but underneath it is more like lets put him someplace where he can not do any more damage. Technically the Pope can NOT remove a Bishop once a Bishop is appointed, but the Pope has the power to "promote" such bishops to positions that on their face are "promotions" but in reality burying them. The Vatican has been doing this since the time of the Roman Empire (But are NOT alone in the practice, other bureacaacy, including corporate buearcary and Government Burearachy do the same). Always been a question why he was sent to DC, the rumor I heard was the way he closed the Churches was to much even for the Vatican and they looked for a place to dump him and then DC opened up.

Washington DC Diocese Web site:
http://www.adw.org/home.asp

[mdmc]

141. thanks for the info

peace

[CatholicEdHead]

149. Thanks for the update and clarification

I must be thinking of another Archbishop, I have my hands full just trying to keep up with the RCC in the middle of the country.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

81. GOOD EXAMPLE WHY WE SHOULD NEVER HAVE RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS

MAYBE IF RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS WERE OUTLAWED WE WOULD PUT MORE INTO PUBLIC EDUCATION

YES I AM SHOUTING :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[Adsos Letter]

87. No; this is why we should fiercly guard Church/State separation...

and defund the "Faith-based" initiatives. Put that money into gopvernment agencies designed to help people in need, and make 'em accountable for how they spend the money.

Religious liberty and Church/State separation are two sides of the same coin...both are necessary for Church and State to function properly in their separate realms.

[vssmith]

167. I say tax them

[MadMaddie]

171. Ding! That is the correct answer!

They use city streets, fire, police and they don't pay taxes.

The free ride is over and they only have themselves to blame.

[Lost-in-FL]

189. +1, nt

[LynneSin]

you have 150+ plus members, 'unrecs' happen

to get upset over it is beyond useless. If the post has any merits (which yours does) it'll be wiped out within a few minutes.

DUers need to be less anal-retentive about the 'unrec' feature. It's like playing the perfect symphony but stewing over the one off-key note you did during it.

[defendandprotect]

29. It's not about being "upset" . . . it's about drawing attention to the stupidity ...

of the "UN" and the "UN'er" . . .

Now, why would someone be against DU'ers being made aware of this?

Because the issue is about how much attention a thread gets --

the "UN" is an attempt to knock a thread down.

[LynneSin]

32. What stupidity

The fact that if you gather 150k people together in one room - some asshole will disagree with you.

You have 29 recs so in a nutshell - why even worry about it.

Hell if I hadn't already recommended your thread I'd unrec it just to annoy you. Doesn't seem to take much does it?

[DWilliamsamh]

79. Tell brother....I can't stand teh big deall some people make over an un rec.

Which amounts to NOTHING if even a fraction of members like and rec a post. Just ignore it seems a much more reasonable response than to assume there is some concerted effort to "suppress information." Especially here.

[LynneSin]

102. To me I'm not worried about the one or two assholes who will get buried

by all the great recommends out there.

The system works - which is why this thread is getting so many recommendations.

[defendandprotect]

112. Why are you responding if so inconsequential?

Why are you worrying about it?

Meanwhile, the fact remains that if anyone is stupid enough to "UN" a thread

like this then attention should be drawn to it.

:think:

[LynneSin]

197. I'm not the one that compared being 'unrec' to sitting in the back of the bus

Just putting things into persepctive

[defendandprotect]

213. Why are you here if it's so inconsequential . . . ???

[mdmc]

142. worse, i didn't think of the rec for visibility

I unrecc because I didn't like what the Church was doing in the OP. I thought of it more like a like/dislike thing..

[Enthusiast]

118. It makes us feel better to

point out they are assholes.

[LynneSin]

209. Yes but if you ignore them they no longer hold power over you

:D

[defendandprotect]

214. OK . . . let's ignore the right wing . . . let's also ignore religious fanatics . . . !!!

Poof! All gone !!

:eyes:

[mike_c]

11. there is apparently a contingent of permanent butt heads around here...

...who unrec EVERYTHING automatically, or at least so it seems. Virtually every post gets unrec'd within seconds of appearing on the Latest page. Some of it is likely troll activity, some is because there is always SOMEONE who will dislike most political topics. But post something positive and apolitical-- "Puppy dogs save toddler from certain death and find suitcases full of money, too!" and some ass hat will unrec it within seconds.

[Newsjock]

15. "Suitcases full of money"!?

Damn greedy puppy dogs! Eliminate puppy-dog-personhood, I say!

:sarcasm:

[rfranklin]

75. Okay, I confess, it was me...my finger slipped...

I am flaying myself with barbed wire as I write. Keyboard is getting slippery from the blood...I think I am losing consciousnesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

[Enthusiast]

122. Stealth Republicans.

They infect the internet.

[Jester Messiah]

195. Only gutless wonders unrec and don't post to say why. [nt]

[Dogtown]

13. K&R n/t

[Arugula Latte]

23. Rec'd.

:kick:

[Zoeisright]

36. It's not always clear what to rec and unrec.

For instance, I'm really angry about those old, icky men in dresses thinking they can tie charity to hate, so I wanted to unrec, until I read this. Then I recced it.

[defendandprotect]

113. Why would you consider an "UN" on this if you were against the Church in this matter?

Wouldn't you want more people to read about the immorality of the Catholic Church

and its continuing failure to embrace "equality for all"/democracy?

Even further, it's constant efforts to create intolerance for homosexuals and to

reverse human rights recognition of homosexuals?

If you "UN" a thread, especially early on, it's more likely that fewer people will read it.

A "REC" doesn't say that that you're "with the Church" on this issue . . . it simply says,

"everyone should read this."



:)

[Techn0Girl]

82. Get over it.

People unrec.
I totally agree with your story.
But I am going to unrec you anyway just because , you know, you're not that special.

People have a right to disagree.
I agree completely with your sentiment.
I disagree copletely with you sense of entitlement.

[theHandpuppet]

90. Well aren't you special

Doesn't it make you feel all powerful to hit that unrec button?

For some of you who may not know -- or may not care, as in your case, I'm sure -- I can fully understand the poster's distress at seeing what is an important topic being downgraded by unrec'd votes. GLBT topics seem to be a favorite target and for threads in places such as the GLBT forum, even a few of these unrec trolls can completely derail a thread from the front page to the cellar. We've seen it happen over and again. So a bit of persepective on why the poster is upset by this is in order, unless you just can't wait to prove how important you are by waving the unrec'd threat beneath someone's nose.

[defendandprotect]

119. Wholeheartedly agree . . . this is only human rights being "UN'd" . . . !!!

[kenfrequed]

139. Ah

So making noise about other people trying to bury your comments is 'a sense of entitlement'?

When did we start adopting the enemies (republican) language?

[Enthusiast]

115. Newsjock, there are some

real double barreled assholes on DU and their numbers are growing daily. They are disaffected Republicans, intolerant fundies, "moderates" and corporatists. Fuck 'em, one and all.

[Raster]

200. !!!!!

:kick:

[HughBeaumont]

159. As a BIL to two and a cousin to two more lesbians . . . NEGATED!

Human rights for EVERY PERSON.

[LynneSin]

3. FUCK THEM

FUCK THEM FUCK THEM FUCK THEM

I was always tolerant of the Catholics because of organizations like Catholic Charities - which has done some amazing outreach to underprivileged. But to be so heartless, so cruel, so inhumane as to deny charity to those who needs it the most so they don't have to hand out employee benefits as part of basic human rights

Fuck them

This coming from a church filled with Child Molesters and the fact that they PROTECTED those that did the molesting

[Moonwalk]

55. Spot on Lynne! What happened to "Render unto Caesar?"

Why should a church interested, supposedly, in the spiritual welfare of its people, including the moral obligation it has to succor the poor allow what it owes to a temporal authority to interfere with that spiritual mission? Someone hasn't read their Bible.

By all means. Let some other charity take over, catering to the poor for the poor's sake, not for the sake of manipulating temporal authority--and here's hoping that the result of this is that the poor never trust the CC again, because obviously they're only catering to the poor so they have strings to pull. Which says they really don't give a shit about the poor.

[Enthusiast]

124. It is called "hypocrisy". That's what it is.

[pundaint]

133. Most Catholics I know think the Catholic leadership is weak too.

A bunch of old men trying desperately to hang on the 1930's. But I don't see many churches of any stripe offering much wisdom for out times. In this area Ayn was right, it's all about a power grab. Clearly in this case the resources expended on charity were really not charity but bribery, and that's not tax exempt.

So I would modify your epithet to FUCK THEM ALL - TAX THEM ALL

[Canuckistanian]

175. +!

I like the way you think.

[dflprincess]

185. Hang on to the 1930s?

I didn't think they'd even made it to the 19th century yet.

[T Wolf]

4. Disgust with the CC aside, if they "abandon" their CONTRACT, can they be sued?

I would hope so.

In addition, just replace them with another contractor. No loss since the church does not contribute anything to the effort except religious dogma. Let a truly caring organization provide the services.

A win-win as far as I can see.

[Bonobo]

5. They have opened the door now. We should treat them like any other lobbying group.

We should flood them with calls, letters, emails.

They are no longer sacred. They have entered the 'profane' world and now should be slimed as much as the rest.

[Angry Dragon]

35. Here is a link for you

http://www.irs.gov/irs/article/0,,id=178241,00.html

It will take you to form 13909 which is a complaint form about Tax Exempt organizations

Edit added: Perhaps if the IRS gets 10,000 of these they may sit up and notice

[Bonobo]

37. Thanks!!! nt

[Angry Dragon]

41. Maybe you could do a post using that link to get the message

out to use against other groups that use their religion to hide behind.

No one one listens to me or hears me. So I will leave it in your hands.

[Bonobo]

48. I have started a link.

See what you did now, Angry Dragon!

I listened to you... and I suspect, clever as you are, that I have been the victim of hit-and-run reverse psychology!

[Angry Dragon]

58. No.........you carry more weight here than I do

people will listen to you more than me. I try to be tolerant of others. Try to listen to their voices. It is when they start trying to force me to think, feel, believe as they do I tend to get very angry and I take no prisoners. I say that any church that wants to make policy for me should lose tax-exempt status. I have my beliefs, let me have mine and you can believe anything you want.

Edit for question: Where is this link you speak of??

[Bonobo]

64. I think you misread my post, AD.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7000240&mesg_id=7000240

I appreciated what you said to me, I am honoring your ability to have moved me to do a useful OP providing a useful link ("You started it").

In other words, you have more influence than you know.

[Angry Dragon]

76. Thank you for your kind words..........

We will see if I can move you again in the future.

Perhaps I should try to move others also. :kick: :evilgrin:

[napi21]

7. I can see where the church wouldn't want to offer it's

services to anyone participating in activities that are against their teachings, and that's fair. I can't imagine any gay couples would ever want to get married in the Church! As to employee benefits, do you relly think a gay coouple would want to work for the Church?

[jberryhill]

12. It's not work "for the church" per se

It is work for social service organizations that the church runs.

Very few realized during the campaign that the "community organizing" work that Barack Obama had done was funded by the Catholic Campaign for Human Development.

[napi21]

I was referring to the OP statement that the Church was concerned

that the DC laws would force them to pay employee benefits to gays. The only way employee benefits would apply is if the people were on the Church P/R.

[jberryhill]

60. Unless we are talking about church-owned non-profit co's

Which are separate legal entities that do hire people.

[GOTV]

18. Doesn't every living human participate in activities that are against their teachings?

It's the nature of being a sinner.

[napi21]

30. Probably many do, but not all. Since B/C is against their

teachings, there are even a lot of Catholics who use that, but the Church isn't paying for the pills.

[GOTV]

40. Some do not sin?

Or are some sins not against their teachings?

[closeupready]

56. Catholic dogma teaches that people are BORN sinful.

And further that EVERYONE sins. Not "many", "everyone".

[defendandprotect]

123. Catholics ignore birth control restrictions and get as many ABORTIONS as any other women!!!

It's about Catholic Church moving outside the church and into influencing

government to try to control their members -- and everyone else!!!


If you can't get birth control -- if you can't get an abortion -- then the

Catholic Church has succeeded in controlling their members and everyone else --


In this case it's homosexuals -- "equality for all"/democracy -- SURPRISE!! they're

also against that!

[northernlights]

53. um, the "Church's" services are a business contract to manage

government social services.

The real problem started with the deliberate blurring of the lines separating church and state, under W with his "faith based" crapola. That has led to this mess. It is, quite simply, unconstitutional. Oh yeah, that "quaint" piece of paper that W shredded.

So if you have no problem, please answer this:

1. How does a *tax-exempt* church get to have a lucrative business contract to perform services for the government...yet maintain its tax exempt status?

2. Since when does a vendor get to write the rules of the business that is offering the contract?

The church is in breach of contract, but quite frankly, they never should have been able to enter the contract to begin with.

[defendandprotect]

127. True/agree -- and the faster we get the Catholic Church out of this work, the better -- !!!

And, coincidentally, W came thru with this money for the Church - "faith-based" religious

organizations -- when they were really strapped to pay their lawsuits over priests' sexual

abuse of children!

Now, the Catholic Church is being investigated because they think the church may have used

this money to pay those lawsuits!!!!

:eyes:

[Mithreal]

128. They use PUBLIC money for public services

"The issue here is they are using public funds, and to allow people to discriminate with public money is unacceptable," Rosenstein said.

[Deep13]

8. At some point Catholics who support this sort of thing...

...with there attendance, tuition and tithes are going to have to decide whether or not they are Americans or Catholics since it is obvious that the two are incompatible with each other. For a church to take such a heavy-handed approach to public policy is plain evidence that they do not respect the Constitution or the seperation of church and state contained there in. They see nothing wrong with making others, including noncatholics, bear the burden of their irrational prejudices. It has not even occurred to them to oppose gay rights for Catholics while not interferring with those outside of their religion.

[Arugula Latte]

22. Agree completely.

:thumbsup:

[defendandprotect]

31. Great post . . . kick ---

[closeupready]

59. Completely agree. Catholics are not zombies; God gave them minds.

They are thus obligated to respect that gift and to use them. If after doing so, they come to the conclusion that the RCC is correct, then I have no further use for such people.

[glinda]

170. pressure from the Pope. uggggggh. I think there needs to be a new Church personally.

[Cleita]

9. That wouldn't be a bad thing. I'm sure other charities will be willing to

step in and plug the void. I was against giving federal money to religious organizations anyway for this reason. It's why we are supposed to have separation of Church and State. Let them go raise their money the old fashioned way with begging like they used to. btw Shouldn't the IRS be paying them a visit about their tax free status?

[Dogtown]

10. Pure blackmail

When they held a monopoly, they just excommunicated everyone that disagreed with them.

[bl968]

14. Take their tax exempt status away

Lets revoke their tax exempt status and see how much they are able to threaten then.

[nytemare]

152. Yep. They kept the tax exempt status after the sex abuse scandals..

Now, they want to preach morality, after they protected pedophiles for years. You want to get involved in the district's business, pay up your taxes, bud.

[Angry Dragon]

16. I rec'ed you

If they sever their contracts they are in direct violation of their church's teachings. Christ told the church that they are to hekp the poor. He said to depose of all your wealth and help the most needy and then you may be perfect. The church is acting no more than a spoiled little child. Are they really following Christ's teachings??

What do the poor have to do with gays?? Are all poor people gay?? It seems to me that the church has maybe lost its soul. Well to be really honest I think the church lost its soul a long time ago. I think the church is going to open itself up for a battle where they lose some of their faithful.

Since when do we let a foreign government tell us what to do??

[Zodiak]

51. Ratzinger happened to the church

This is EXACTLY what I expect a Hitler Youth Pope to do.....issue threats to hurt the helpless in order to promote a social agenda.

I know a lot of good Catholics that effectively left the church when Ratzinger was selected. The fact that Ratzinger was in change of covering up the pedophile priest business was not lost on them.

[Soylent Brice]

20. Church: waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!

:stomps feet:

:lots of pouting:

fuck'em.

[Arugula Latte]

21. Once again this fucking Church has gone too far.

I'm so bloody sick of these evil archdiocese bastards.

People have GOT to stop supporting this institution. Do not give them a dime more.

[drmeow]

24. I do not believe that I have ever

regretted leaving the Catholic Church.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

38. It's kinda funny --

12 years of Catholic education made me the left-winger I am today. :D

And ultimately made me reject the church I grew up with.

I say bomb the Vatican - it is an utterly corrupt org thats time has long past.

[LuckyLib]

94. You me, and hundreds of thousands of others.

Extortion and blackmail -- the church does it so well!

[CoffeeCat]

74. I'm constantly validated by my decision to leave the catholic church...

Their sickening and evil behavior is a constant reminder that I made the right decision.

My brother-in-law was sexually abused by a priest, when he was nine. He came forward,
as a 40-year old adult--and the "church" accused him of lying. This happened three years ago,
when everyone knew the "church" had problems with pedophile priests.

Turns out, my brother-in-law's revelations gave four other boys the courage to come
forward. The priest then admitted what he had done. My BIL sued in civil court,
and even though the priest admitted that he had sexually abused all of these children,
that didn't stop the "church" and their attorneys from raking by BIL over the coals.

My BIL is a doctor, and the "church" in open court, questioned why he waited so long
to come forward with his recollections of abuse. They suggested that since BIL was
a doctor, he is also a mandatory abuse reporter--and since he failed to report his
own abuse earlier--he is therefore an untrustworthy person. Can you believe that?

They also put his wife up on the stand. My BIL had kept the abuse secret, due to
shame. The "church" insisted that the abuse might not have been true--because he
didn't tell his wife about it.

THIS is the catholic church. This is who they are. Don't believe any of the mea
culpas and "Oh sexual abuse is so terrible" stupidity coming from the pope. This
is how they treat adult children who were victims of catholic priests. They are not
sorry. They are still victimizing these children.

This institution of evil has NO shame. They are scumbags.

[Lugnut]

199. I've never looked back.

The hypocrisy did it for me.

[maddezmom]

25. disgusting

:eyes: They are going ditch helping the homeless, babies etc because they have to obey the law. How Christian of them. :mad:

[defendandprotect]

26. Catholic Church abandoning paying contracts . . . ??? Btw . . .

The Catholic Church is being investigated in regard to the money they have gotten

for "faith-based" organizations from government/taxpayers . . .

Seems government is investigating whether RCC used the money to pay off their lawsuits

against church for pedophile priests!!!

:eyes:

No taxpayer money should go to any religion --

and we should end tax-exemptions, except for church and surround property and their

soup kitchens!!!


Though quite convenient that Bush moved money into Catholic Church hands just when they

needed it most???

Catholic "faith-based" organizations are the majority of those being funded.

[defendandprotect]

27. Well . . . maybe an opportunity for government to create some jobs here????

[kristopher]

28. Most of the social strategies we use are acquired in early youth

More at: http://atheism.about.com/od/benedictxvi/i/RatzingerNazi.htm

Was Pope Benedict XVI (Joseph Ratzinger) A Nazi? Why Join the Hitler Youth?

By Austin Cline, About.com


The question of Joseph Ratzinger’s involvement with Nazi Germany and the Hitler Youth is important: there is reason to think that Ratzinger has been less than fully candid about his past.

During much of the Nazi era, Joseph Ratzinger lived with his family in Traunstein, Germany, a small and staunchly Catholic town between Munich and Salzburg. During World War I there was a prisoner-of-war camp located here where, ironically, Adolf Hitler worked between December 1918 and March 1919. The town is located near the region of Austria which Hitler came from.

Resistance to the Nazis was dangerous and difficult, but not impossible. Elizabeth Lohner, a Traunstein resident whose brother-in-law was sent to Dachau as a conscientious objector, has been quoted as saying, “It was possible to resist, and those people set an example for others. The Ratzingers were young and had made a different choice.”

A few hundred yards away from the Ratzingers' house, a family hid Hans Braxenthaler, a local resistance fighter who shot himself rather than be captured again. The SS regularly searched local homes for resistance members, so the Ratzingers couldn’t have not known about resistance efforts.

Traunstein also saw more than its share of local violence. In his biography of Joseph Ratzinger, John L. Allen, Jr. says that anti-Semitic violence, displacement, deportation, death, and even resistance turned the town into “an over-populated lunatic asylum of hopeless inhabitants.”

It’s curious that one of the lessons which Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, draws from the experiences of German Catholics under the Nazis is that Catholics should become even more obedient to their ecclesiastical leaders rather than more free to adopt independent courses of action. Ratzinger believes that greater fidelity to Catholic doctrine, as defined by the Vatican, is necessary to counter movements like Nazism.

Background

Neither Ratzinger nor any member of his immediate family joined the NSDAP (Nazi Party). Ratzinger’s father was critical of the Nazi government, and as a result the family had to move four times before he was ten years old.

None of this is remarkable, however, because the same happened with other German Catholic families. Although many German Catholic leaders were willing to work with the Nazis, many individual Catholics and Catholic priests resisted as best they could, refusing to cooperate with a political regime they regarded as anti-Catholic at best and the embodiment of evil at worst.

Joseph Ratzinger joined the Hitler Youth in 1941 when, according to him and his supporters, it became compulsory for all German boys. Millions of Germans were in a position similar to that of Joseph Ratzinger and his family, so why spend so much time focusing on him? Because he is no longer merely Joseph Ratzinger, or even a Catholic Cardinal — he is now Pope Benedict XVI. None of the other Germans who joined the Hitler Youth, were part of the military in Nazi Germany, lived near a concentration camp, and watched Jews being rounded up for death camps has ever become pope.

The pope is supposed to be the successor of Peter, leader of the Christian Church, and symbol of unity for all Christendom. The past actions — or inactions — of such a person matter a great deal if anyone is going to treat him as any sort of moral authority. Ratzinger’s recollections of his youth in Nazi Germany makes it seem as though all the problems, violence, and hatred existed outside his local community. There is no recognition that resistance to the Nazis existed — or was needed — just outside his door...

more at: http://atheism.about.com/od/benedictxvi/i/RatzingerNazi.htm

[Lugnut]

33. How Christian of them.

Hypocrisy.

[krispos42]

34. Hate the sin, not the sinner, right?

Right?


<crickets>


Well, they can always get around this by simply not hiring anybody at all and depending entirely on community volunteers. That's the conservative mantra anyway, right? Fuck government services, the community can do it better!

[Politicub]

39. People will realize how backward and discriminatory religious institutions are

years from now when they look at the historical record and LGBT folks have achieved equality.

They will also see the barbarianism of allowing the majority to vote on the civil rights of the minority, and wonder how people could have allowed that to continue.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

42. That Was How Christ Did It, Right?

Right?

[Pisces]

43. The Catholic Church teaches us yet again how blackmail is the tool of God.

[AtheistCrusader]

44. Good, GET OUT. And don't stop at the DC border, go ALLL the way home.

Take your influence peddling, and institutionalized hate and bigotry with you.

[BattyDem]

45. I thought blackmail was illegal.

:eyes: :grr:

[Gormy Cuss]

46. Yeah, that'll be a good PR move. n/t

[ElboRuum]

47. Adding blackmail to the list of the CC's High Crimes and Misdemeanors.

It's starting to be one hell of a list.

[CoffeeCat]

49. So a "church" is willing to harm people...

...if it doesn't get its way on a political issue?

They're willing to turn their backs on thousands of people who are homeless, needing healthcare and other
essential services?

Really?

This is not the behavior of a church. It is the behavior of criminals.

Given the catholic church's deplorable record on child sexual abuse--you would think they would not
engage in such evil.

Sickening. Just sickening.

[themaguffin]

50. Bullshit, they're blulffing. Their work is not conditional

if it is, then they are not fulfilling their obligation and duty. Period.

[juno jones]

52. I'm sick of the church, any damn church, thinking that

it's the boss of me or any other human on this earth. Especially when their beliefs are toxic enough to exclude entire swathes of humanity from equal treatment under society and law.

Tax 'em all, let the IRS sort 'em out!

[closeupready]

54. This church puts hate above love.

There is no question about it.

[closeupready]

57. It's tempting to think about scenarios under which this move could be contested;

for example, if someone wanted to set up a phony church of their own, get into the adoption business, and then refuse to service members of mainstream religious churches, because "they're not Christians" "they killed Christ" "they're all terrorists" etc.

[silverweb]

61. This is what they all want.

The churches want to dictate government policy and think they are entitled to do so.

This is what the separation of church and state is all about, and it MUST be renewed and reinforced.

[Adsos Letter]

93. And THIS whole congregation shouted AMEN!!!

and amen.

[silverweb]

103. Doesn't surprise me.

The Church's heyday was during the good old Middle Ages, when feudalism and ecclesiastical rule kept all but the ruling elite in their place as ignorant, illiterate, and obedient servants.

The Catholic Church (and many other churches) would love to go back to those days, when it conspired with secular rulers to maintain that status quo that kept them in absolute power through threats of torture and death, both here and hereafter.

[Adsos Letter]

111. My AMEN was in response to your call for safeguarding Church/State separation...

:shrug:

[silverweb]

117. Oops... LOL

I thought you were saying that a congregation said AMEN in response to the Church's threat. It's what happens sometimes when I multitask. Sorry about that!

Thanks for you original intent. :pals:

[benld74]

62. Must be from a Made for TV movie - RIGHT? PLEASE?

[Love Bug]

63. It's really time to start taxing churches.

Other countries do it, so why don't we? If they want to meddle in politics, then it's time to make them pay up just like the rest of us do.

[Miss_Underestimated]

70. You can download form for reporting church political activities to IRS; here is link

to post with info:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6987915&mesg_id=6987915

[StreetKnowledge]

65. You'd rather abandon your work than serve homosexuals?

That says a lot about you. Take your homophobia someplace else. Preferably back up your backsides.

[Blue_Tires]

66. who would Jesus extort??

how mafia-like...

[Toasterlad]

67. I Wish the Catholic Church Had One Neck I Could Get My Hands Around.

[Guilded Lilly]

68. How proud Jesus would be....(snort)

oh, wait, this has NOTHING to do with the teaching of your Lord, does it?
Nor grace, nor goodwill, nor love, nor decency.
It has everything to do with being mean, small, vicious control freaks.

GO AWAY and let good people believe in better things.
Or pay taxes. (but then, this really COULDN'T be about the bottom line involving MONEY now could it?)

GO AWAY.

[benld74]

69. Archdiocese ARE Providing FUNDS to defeat SSM Initiatives

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/religion/story/85C1A3F72E03B4A58625766C000DDE75?OpenDocument

[defendandprotect]

131. Maine and CA's Prop 8 -- PLUS Mormon & Catholic Churches defeated ERA . . .

by running a propaganda campaign financed with tax-exempt dollars!

Church is anti-democracy -- '

[Mad_Dem_X]

71. @ssholes!

So, because they will be forced to abandon their discrimination against gays, all those other people will suffer? How very Christian of them!

Fuck them!

[radhika]

72. Religion is the Instrument of Evil

There is no fair and reasonable way to collaborate with institutional organized religion. The entire concept of religion is a device to limit and control individual consciousness, and to ensure that humans do not exercise control over their lives. There's an old saying: You can't play cards against the devil; the devil always wins. They get tax breaks we don't; they are rich enough to subvert democracy; they pretend to set the baseline for morality. And we let them do it!

Like Pelosi asking the Catholic bishops Vatican if they were OK with the wording of the Stupak amendament. And televangelists selling endorsements and votes to their minions. Let's help our DC friends push back against this blackmail.

[Bette Noir]

73. This is only one of many reasons "faith-based initiatives" are a bad idea.

[Adsos Letter]

89. Agreed...in fact, I couldn't agree more...

I would like faith-based initiatives de-funded, and turn the funding over to government agencies charged with helping those in need...AND MAKE THOSE AGENCIES ACCOUNTABLE FOR SPENDING AND RESULTS!!!

Or, at least, turn the funding over to secular, non-profit NGO's.

[RedCappedBandit]

77. What a joke the catholic church is.

Take away their tax exemption NOW.

[AsahinaKimi]

153. totally agree

Let them pay taxes like every other organization..why the hell should they be exempt?

[DWilliamsamh]

78. Blackmail (or is it extorsion?) How "Christian." Scew the Catholics. (N/T)

[ingac70]

83. The Church hates gays so much....

they'll punish everyone else? Scumbags.

[Patiod]

84. And to think I used to argue that Catholics were Christians

when fundy colleagues would say that they weren't (not that very many "christians" are very Christian, either).

I notice that paying off lawsuits and going bankrupt (like Wilmington diocese) doesn't stop social services, but giving equal rights to gays does?

Boy, and I glad I left that awful group of people I was born into.

[Locrian]

85. you know...

Well, gee golly thats ok. Dont wanna play?
Then how about we just yank all you FUCKING tax exemptions?!

[ingac70]

86. Give the contract to someone else.

and let all the people who receive help from those programs know what the Catholic Church did.

[davidthegnome]

88. A sad situation

The church just keeps on going downhill, occasionally they do something intelligent or helpful, but these incidents prove that bigotry still remains strong within certain circles. Most likely, several high ranking clergy members along with the Pope are giving these orders. If only the Cardinals had elected someone younger and more progressive, they might be able to start digging out of the mess they've put themselves in.

As a former Catholic, I have no intention of going back to the church unless or until they cease with such discrimination and bigotry. It's sad really, because there are so many great Catholics, even within the priesthood, who are just as upset by this idiocy as we are.

[closeupready]

96. I'm in the same boat as you.

Will never attend another Mass until they change, which isn't likely. Doesn't make me sad, though, just makes me angry, because they are so wealthy and influential.

[dflprincess]

91. Perhas the IRS needs to issue an ultimatum about the church's tax exempt status

Just sayin'.

[truedelphi]

206. they have huge and valuable land holdings inside DC

If those were taxed properly, many more than 68,000 people could receive services.

[JDPriestly]

92. But what about other churches such as the Unitarians, Episopalians

and Churches of Christ that support gay marriage on religious grounds? Does the Catholic Church intend to establish laws that will prevent people of those religions from following their beliefs?

[dflprincess]

186. Sshhhh

you'll put ideas in the bishops' heads.

[laughingliberal]

97. Funny, quite a few states have laws on domestic partnerships which

require companies to cover domestic partners of employees. Wonder if the church operates any social programs in those states?

[kestrel91316]

98. Revoke the Catholic Church's tax exampt status NOW.

[Odin2005]

100. Tax them! Tax them now!

:grr:

[AlbertCat]

120. A-Men!!!!

With the taxes from this richest of religious groups.... and the taxes from the businesses they own, we could pay for healthcare for everyone.... and probably get a break on personal taxes too.

The Salvation Army is the 2nd richest. Tax them too while we're at it.

[nightrain]

101. then let decent social services agencies provide the services!

[mwooldri]

104. Not exactly a biblical solution is it?

Luke 10:27.

Expand further, read the whole of Chapter 10 from Verse 25 onwards.

The Roman Catholic Church is therefore going against Jesus' own teachings in this respect and this is yet another reason why I cannot be affiliated with them.

Mark.

[mnhtnbb]

106. This kind of thing is why people were concerned about JFK as President.

Would he follow the rule of law or bow to the Catholic Church?

For my $.02, give the contracts to somebody else--and be sure that the whole damn country
knows why.

[defendandprotect]

129. Agree -- and let's worry about hundreds of Catholics we have in Congress now . . .!!!

Plus the other religious fanatics that have also piled in --

This "god" game playing has to go -- !!!

Including C Street and "The Family" --

all right wing financed, anyway -- FAKE!!

[winyanstaz]

108. K & R,,,,cause people need to know the truth of things...

And the truth is..the religious bunch have been running this nation around by the nose for far too long.

[ooglymoogly]

109. Well I have an ultimatum for the unchristian catholic church

Go to hell now or you will go on judgment day.

[rug]

110. There's a simple solution.

The government can use its public money elsewhere and the Church can run its own independent social services.

[KamaAina]

114. Don't they provide social services in Massachusetts?

And Iowa? And Connecticut, Vermont, New Hampshire?

Also I would imagine the D.C. archdiocese extends into Md. and newly homophobic Va. Why don't they just set up shop next to the Rosslyn Metro, with a great big picture of Gov.-elect McFascist outside, and discriminate to their little hearts' content? :sarcasm:

[defendandprotect]

121. k i c k

[Speciesamused]

125. Not very christian of them in these hard times.

What happen to the love. No surprise.
It is all about control. Enough said.

[katty]

126. Churchianity rules, not the teachings of Jesus-moralizing hypocrites

[kenfrequed]

130. Disgusting

So... Either change your political opinion on marriage or we will cut off these widows, orphans, and poor kids. Lovely.

[moonlady0623]

132. What The...

FUCK would Jesus do??????????? Deplorable.

[mdmc]

134. the church should also curb services for communities that

allow divorce or reproductive rights.

Of course this makes me very, very sad.

[peacetalksforall]

135. I didn't expect to be reading something that was equally disgusting and heartbreaking today.

I say that we the government should not let them change their mind, explore all legal avenues before we kick them out, repeal anything faith based in this set-up program until separation of church and state logic rules.

Do not reopen this contract to any church who rules against or excludes specific citizens in anything they do that involves charity. We need an equal opportunity platform to feed and help, not a religious moratorium on our money.

Create a separation of church and state totally non-discriminatory.

Let the Illuminati run their own charities. Let them vet their poor and hungry - file forms, hire detectives to validate what they signed to. Make them attend classes about fetuses and marriages before they are fed..

I am truly disgusted.

AS I review the context:

WE ARE THE TAXPAYERS WHO 'OWN' A PROGRAM TO GIVE HELP TO THE NEEDS OF THE HOMELESS AND HUNGRY.

WE ASSIGN TO A CHURCH.

THIS CHURCH SETS UP RELIGIOUS RULES THAT SATISFY THEIR PREJUDICES AND HATES.

THE CHURCH SETS UP RELIGIOUS RULES THAT SATISFY THEIR PREJUDICES.

THEN, THEY THREATEN US IF WE DON'T SAY YES TO THEM.

What arrogance.

The direction this points to is horrific. Attack them back with the law, if this is covered by law.

[ladywnch]

136. I wonder if we can get the Catholic Church to pack up

and leave the country entirely........?

[texastoast]

137. What about a "living in sin" law?

What about those people in our society--the ones who are divorced? (You can't be divorced and be a good Catholic.) The ones who (horrors) married outside the faith? And (OMG) are shacked up?

Why isn't the Catholic church up in arms about that?

And as long as the Bishop is going all Leviticus about it, why hasn't he bitched when fathers (mothers not allowed) haven't killed a disobient child? Or burnt their offering in a way that is pleasing to the Lord?

Oh, I think it is because of their unmitigated bigotry.

[ArbustoBuster]

138. They're using charity as a weapon.

They're threatening to break contracts.

They're declaring they will hurt the poor.

I want the government to come down on them like an avalanche.

[DeSwiss]

140. As I recall.....

...these jerks threw down that same rusty gauntlet in Massachusetts when they voted for gay marriage. I say fuck 'em. The reality is there's too much money and real estate tied up there. Not to mention how they love to be close to where the power is.

- Plus, they may leave some evidence behind unguarded.....

K&R

"Go! And don't let the doorknob, etc. etc......."

[ima_sinnic]

145. hypocritical pedophile assholes w the world's stolen treasures locked up in the vatican

have I mentioned lately how much i hate fucking hypocritical self-righteous assholes?

Even I, an atheist, have more compassion and concern for others than these stinking assholes.
Go wallow in your pathetic, smug, and petty self-righteousness while those of us who truly care for others pick up the slack and do the work of your "lord." Take your mumbo-jumbo beads and shove them up your worn-out, sagging hole.

[Solly Mack]

146. Fuck'em

[mzteris]

147. TAKE AWAY THEIR TAX EXEMPT STATUS!

f'ing hypocritical @holes.

I hate organized religion. It's all about money and power for old white guys - and the disenfranchisement of women and minorities and anyone who disagree with them.

:nuke:

[DonCoquixote]

148. Jesus

Did not withhold care from people just because they did not like him. His phrase was along the effect of "It's not the healthy that need the doctor, but the sick", which is why he was often found among lepers, prostitutes, and others society considered unseemly. He also mentioned something Christians love to forget, that as you show kindness to the "least", you show it to him, and it's corollary, that as you do NOT do things for the least, you do not do it to him.

Hey, let's just quote their own freaking website:
http://www.ewtn.com/New_library/breakfast.htm

Then Jesus will turn to those on His left hand and say, "Depart from me because I was hungry and you did not feed me, I was thirsty and you did not give me to drink, I was sick and you did not visit me." These will ask Him, "When did we see You hungry, or thirsty or sick and did not come to Your help?" And Jesus will answer them, "Whatever you neglected to do unto one of these least of these, you neglected to do unto Me!"

The point being, for a bunch of people who claim to be serving Jesus, they are sure not acting like him, especially when Jesus gave them a very clear warning about what happens to people that are able to feed the starving and do not, to heal the sick and do not. I could also get into the fact that Charity was the reason these folks got tax exempt status, but that is a separate topic that deserves several books to be written about it.

I was raised a Christian, and I have no problems with the teachings of Yeshua Ben Miriam, the Carpenter from Nazareth. I even rankle my nose when some Atheists try to shove their dogma down my throat with the same force the Catholics do, but when I see religious pigs act this way, I know that it is my duty to condemn them. I do not care if you are Jesus, Mohammed, Moses, Buddha, or even L. Ron Hubbard, chances are the people who claim to follow you and who get rich off your teachings are the same people who would kill you if they had the chance. Therefore, Blasphemy is now the only true form of Piety left.

[D23MIURG23]

150. Yay Christianity!!

:sarcasm:

edit to add unnecessary sarcasm tag.

[BobTheSubgenius]

151. F'ing BASTARDS!!!

Try to crawl out of the 11th Century and come to the light, you hypocritical, homophobic POS's.

[sofa king]

154. Then. Get. The. Hell. Out.

Jerks.

[pinto]

155. Damn, this is so very sad.

The church has the money to provide benefits, has an established tradition of providing services, to draw a line on such petty grounds is truly dispiriting.

Geez.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

156. knowingly causing suffering = evil

it would be great if the city could find a way to carry on without them...

[and-justice-for-all]

157. See ya!! No get the fuck out!!! BIGOTS!! nt

[raging_moderate]

158. Let he who has not sinned throw the first stone.

How very compassionate and "Christian" of them to refuse to help those in need unless they pass a litmus test first.

[HughMoran]

160. Next time somebody asks why we pick on these people

Remember that they're more hateful than "normal" people. :mad:

[nicky187]

161. Carefully considered response.

FUCK YOU DC Archdiocese. You just moved me firmly into being a Lapsed Catholic.

You are so chickenshit. You couldn't do the right thing for molested parisioners, but you have the nerve (I wouldn't say you have balls, eunuchs) to harm people who have done nothing to you?

Fuck you.

Respectfully submitted,

nicky187

[TygrBright]

162. hooboy. They SO picked the wrong jurisdiction to try this nonsense in.

A-ma-zing.

The DISTRICT?

They are trying to blackmail THE DISTRICT?

The orneriest, the most contrarian, the most self-willed, the most oppositional, the most EXPERIENCED at dealing with oppression from gigantic forces (paging the Federal Government) jurisdiction in the United States?

Heh. I must phone my bookie. Maybe I can still get good odds on the District collectively flipping the bird to the Pope & Co. Because they will. You want something from the District? This is EXACTLY the wrong way to go about it.

Believe me, it is not impossible to get what you want out of the District, especially if you have lots of money and a little patience, two characteristics at which I would have said the Church excels. It CAN be done. There are plenty of strings and levers to pull, plenty of fists to grease, plenty of movers and shakers who can be had for a quite reasonable exchange. Spend a couple of years spreading cash around in the right places, show up for the right civic events, get your photo taken with the right movers and shakers, and you can have 51% of the District power structure eating right out of your hand, even if you're a foreigner. Don't count on more than 51%, but 51% is enough if you know how to play your cards.

And really, it should have been a cakewalk for the Church, because there are plenty of anti-gay troglodytes in influential positions who would happily have carried their water if treated right.

Extortion, however, does not come under the category of "treated right."

Extortion lights all the oppositional fuses and puts even many natural allies solidly in the "Go Fuck Yourself and the Horse You Rode In On" camp.

tsk-tsk...

Yeh, lemme go phone my bookie. I could still get odds. Not everyone knows the District...

interestedly,
Bright

[smoogatz]

163. Now there's a shocker.

The pedophile-harboring RC church hates gay people so much that it's threatening to let poor people starve and freeze to death if forced to stop its discriminatory labor practices. Pretty much par for the course.

[xCrushx]

164. This is why...

I hate religion.

[bread_and_roses]

165. Call their bluff

I don't know why all these programs are not civil service, anyway. Let the churches keep their "charities" - the food banks etc. that band-aid but never challenge the poverty status-quo. That's what their good at, anyway - keeping the proles resigned to their lot.

[pattmarty]

166. QUIT FUCKING THE KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pleah]

168. Blackmail is supposed to be against the law, isn't it?

What can be done to bring charges against those that spoke this threat?

[Canuckistanian]

172. Blackmail of the worst kind

NO ONE is suggesting that the Catholic Church is going to be obligated or even pressured into performing gay weddings. And the Archbishop of DC damn well knows that.

And I find it HIGHLY doubtful that ANY gay person would work for the freaking Catholic Church, let alone ask for same sex benefits.

That they'd WITHHOLD social services just to formally and officially protest the RIGHT to discriminate against ANY same-sex marriage rights is appalling.

They tried this shit up here in Canada with abortion rights and were sent packing, post-haste.

Let's hope the DC Council does likewise.

[Fearless]

173. Too bad. They LOSE.

[DallasNE]

174. So The Church Of Pedophile Priest Fame

Has problems when there is no victim involved. This Pope is as bad as the last Pope. The Catholic Church has lost its moral compass. This reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw last year. I read "I like your Chirst. I can't stand your Christians. They are nothing like your Christ". That pretty much sums it up.

[Caretha]

180. Sorry

The Catholic Church could not have lost its moral compass, it never had one. Peter & Paul were the least of the disciples, if you understand how & what order disciples were listed in. The actual followers of Jesus rejected Paul & Peter's teachings - they never were a part of what it was really all about.'

The Catholic Church has always been an abomination, nothing new, just the same ol' same ol'.

[Beartracks]

176. "no choice" ?

They would jeopardize the people whom they are currently serving in order to force this issue? The needs that they currently serve through their social programs and ministries will still be there regardless of the same-sex laws. That doesn't seem right... Maybe it's a game of chicken?

[HDPaulG]

177. How fricking Christ like is that?

And the Catholic Church wonders why their "Flock" is dwindling.

Who is the Patron Saint of Extortion?

[2Design]

178. The church was part of helping hilter's rise to power by teaching

hate and discrimination against others and especially homosexuals

[silver10]

179. And they wonder why people are leaving the Catholic Church?

Why didn't they stand up strong against the wars, which are an abomination to God!

No, they provided leaflets in church to support Bush's re-election in 2004 - I was NOT around to see what they did in 2008, I was so disgusted!

[PatrynXX]

181. That sounds like the Catholics.. giving Christians a bad name.

and I'm Lutheran. Catholics and Lutheran's .. like trying to make an apple into an orange :P

[mrbarber]

182. What's wrong, they running out of little boys to fondle?

Fuck them.

[donheld]

183. It's time for them to pay taxes

[GoddessOfGuinness]

184. Does the Catholic Church pay DC property taxes?

Does anyone know if they get a break? How about Georgetown and Catholic Universities?

[ChadwickHenryWard]

187. Wow, that's low, even for the RCC.

I have always felt that it is important for charities to be secular, because religious charities have strings attached. This has always to me been a matter of principle, because I figured that there couldn't really be much harm to come from it, just more of a putative thing. But, once again, the Catholic Church goes above and beyond in being morally reprehensible.

[cleverusername]

190. Irony

This is ironic coming from the priests who couldn't keep their hands off the alter boys. Yea, a real bastion of morality.

[gtar100]

191. They are going to take their ball and leave, like a big baby.

Why is it not obvious to these people that they are acting like spoiled, selfish brats. Their stand on same-sex marriage has *nothing* to do with their outreach to the poor. Or does it? Now they want to use their "good works" as leverage. Political leverage, no less.

The Catholic church just went down another notch on respectability scale. What a pathetic group of old people.

[David Zephyr]

192. Kicking and screaming all the way into the 16th Century.

Neanderthals.

[hulka38]

193. Apparently for that diocese the mission of helping the needy is trumped by

power politics and rigid ideology.

[Jester Messiah]

194. Dear Catholic Church: Fuck You. -JM [nt]

[TheCML]

196. The love hate relationship continues.

I know so many Catholics that do amazing things for single mothers, the poor, etc, its too bad the hierarchy of the Church is so corrupt.

[bamacrat]

198. How carring and helpful.

What Would Jesus Do? I mean seriously.

[earcandle]

201. Put government workers on this immediately and drop these suckers trying to take over our lives.

[burning rain]

202. If it turns out they hate gays more than they love the needy, that will be most unflattering.

.

[Bjorn Against]

203. From this day forward I am going to consider the Catholic Church to be a hate group.

Fuck them, if they are going to use blackmail to force a city to maintain a homophobic policy they are a hate group that is every bit as vile as Fred Phelps and his minions.

[truedelphi]

204. How is it that the Catholic Church provided benefits to pedophiles for decades,

Always while pretending that what was happening was not happening??

They Have a lot of nerve worrying about the morality of gay people who are domestic partners. A lot of friggin' nerve!

[ChadwickHenryWard]

210. In the Catholic Church

if you have non-consensual sex with a young boy, you are protected from the law and angry parishioners; if you have consensual sex with an adult man you are fired and excommunicated. I wish that was an exaggeration, but it's not. I think what it comes down to is illegality - a convicted pedophile on the payroll is bad publicity. I don't think it's working though. Looking at this thread alone, their positives aren't very high.

[Ferret Annica]

205. Let the bastards go, they will be the heavies when all is said and done

about this. If you give into blackmail like this once, when does it end?

Answer: It doesn't.

[bsd13]

207. I'm confused

Why would the Catholic church be hiring same sex couples in the first place? If they're not why would they have to provide "employee" benefits to people they don't employ?

[old mark]

208. Where was the political pressure by the Catholics when there were all those pedophile

lawsuits - I don't recall any church officials standing up for the victims at all.
Tax all the churches on all their property or tell them to shut down and shut up.
Parasitical hypoctite arrogant bastards.

mark
Yes, a catholic school graduate.

[optimator]

211. good

the church can fuck off

[cap]

212. so the Catholic Church wants gay tax $ to support their social services?

Is there any way to not allow gay money to go to the Church? I mean, look what's happening with abortion.

No. How about start fining the church big time for not complying with the law.

I heard Benedict wants a smaller church any how. Now's a really good time to downsize. Just don't provide these services with DC money. Let your competition on the District's contracts take over yours... I'm sure they will oblige!

Yeah. Just walk away from the contracts and get barred from further business with the District.

Oh yeah... and you'll come to your parishioners for another bail out when the lawsuits come in. Many of whom have gay relatives and support gay rights.
Donations are down this year due to the economy and you want to pull this noise!

What planet are you on?

[Suresh]

215. It's not enough for them to be allowed to perform only opposite gender marriages!

Some churches – most notably the Catholic Church and the LDS (Mormon) Church – are not content to just not perform same sex marriages themselves. They are legislating that this position be forced upon other churches (and Synagogues). I would propose that we ask for the same. We want non-discrimination imposed on them the way they’re imposing on the rest of society!

Just as full marriages have dampened opposition to lesser “civil unions,” so too would this soften opposition to marriages that they won’t be forced to perform.

[robo50]

216. Washington to the Vatican: You don't own us!

Get your religious dogma out of our national capital.

Take your agenda of prejudice back to Rome.

We will not be intimidated by your treats.

We can manage adoption and other social services without you around just fine, and we won't exploit people doing it.

[harry_pothead]

217. The Catamite Church is at it again.