Gang Rape Witnesses Kept Silent So They Wouldn't Be Called Snitches

[RamboLiberal]

Source: ABC News

One of the witnesses of last month's gang rape of a 15-year-old girl at her homecoming dance said that while he could have stopped the attack that he watched for 20 minutes he didn't feel accountable for what happened.

"I feel like I could have done something, but I don't feel like I have any responsibility for anything that happened," the unidentified 16-year-old witness told ABC's San Francisco affiliate KGO-TV.

Two witnesses told the television station they didn't call police during the more than two-hour-long assault on the girl because they didn't want to be called a snitches.

For the first time since the Oct. 24 gang rape, details are emerging about the vicious attack on the defenseless teen. Witnesses have now said that the victim was repeatedly kicked in the head as a group of boys took turns raping her during the more than two-hour attack, even using a foreign object to penetrate her.



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Health/witnesses-california-gang-rape-scared-call-police/story?id=9054150

---

I hope there's some way jerks like this guy can be criminally charged and convicted! How sick! I can understand witnesses being scared of the thugs doing the act - but at least go down the block & make an anonymous 911 call!

[closeupready]

1. My God, what kind of high school is this exactly?

I understand that there is peer pressure, but if someone is hurting someone else or committing a violent crime, students should not feel that they will be victimized in retaliation.

[WriteDown]

4. See post #3 for clarification. nt

[noiretextatique]

6. a student was killed at a party in berkeley several years ago

many of the kids knew who pulled the knife and stabbed the boy, but none of them talked to police. it took several years before the police were able to make an arrest, in part because of monitoring facebook. these kids weren't poor either, like many kids in richmond. they were from middle class to very wealthy families.

[closeupready]

11. That's awful.

:mad:

[Matariki]

62. Reminds me of that movie, River's Edge

weird disconnect in kid's trying to deal with something horrific and emotionally beyond them(?)

[noiretextatique]

7. dupe

[EFerrari]

13. Or too afraid to call the cops, maybe even of the cops.

A lot more goes on for kids of that age than most adults ever know.

[noiretextatique]

16. especially in a place like richmond eom

[EFerrari]

18. I used to live close to the Richmond border.

It's a dangerous place.

[noiretextatique]

19. i live in north oakland...rarely go to richmond

it is a very dangerous place.

[Deja Q]

22. Screw peer pressure. I thought we were a nation of independent-thinking individuals...

Which means anybody turning in filth needs to be protected.

Then again, I still act like I've been victimized. I haven't been beaten, assaulted, molested, or mocked in 18 years... then again, if you grow up with it on a daily basis, it's going to stick with you too... it's no excuse, but students who have to endure any needless shit get to be stuck with it for the rest of our lives -- oh, and I've read recent stories where some kid brings up a lawsuit over some little thing... I don't care for the game of "I Can Top You"(tm), but I never sued (call me stupid, then) and a hell of a lot worse happened - more often too.

[slackmaster]

2. Their culture sucks

:argh:

[WriteDown]

3. Here you go!

http://www.thuglaws.com/hip-hop-and-rappers-say-don-t-snitch.html

Also Stop Snitchin'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Snitchin'

[noiretextatique]

5. unfortunately, being a coward and an asshole is not a crime

on the other hand, richmond is a notoriusly dangerous place. i can understand why some people were afraid to talk. however, i do not understand how people watched this girl being brutalized and did nothing. thank goodness at least one young man tried to help her...he got arrested for his efforts, but he was released.

[mitchum]

8. That's just community standards in Thugville

[noiretextatique]

9. it's not just in thugville

i just posted about a group of wealthy kids in berkeley who witnessed a murder and refused to talk to police because the murderer was their friend and they didn't want to be snitches. the cops used facebook and my space to crack the case.

[left coaster]

15. You're right.. it isn't just thugville...

You see it everywhere across the U.S.. It's a diminishing sense of empathy and a lack of responsibility that we really SHOULD feel towards each other.. we're losing our collective humanity as a nation, and we really have to reclaim it..

[Plucketeer]

20. I think it's disgusting too, but.....

... with lawyers on the prowl for ANY money-making angle, there's the fear of ending up being sued by some legal contortions. Maybe it's rare, but we've all heard of a burglar winning a lawsuit against a homeowner causing the burglar grief! It starts in our schools, where kids ARE NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE for being disruptive or disrespectful. What few gutless consequences faculty have to lever kids with are truly laughable. These kids have never known the sting of the "board of education". When you're raised to where everyone's worried about hurting your delicate little psyche, you don't see what or why you should be held responsible for anything.
And then what??? You instantly attain some sort of civic attentiveness when your drivers license says you're 21???

I'm surprized they haven't come up with an angle to pin this on deficient teachers. After all - it happened at a school, didn't it?!!!

[Threedifferentones]

79. Diminishing? Reclaim?

I don't buy it. This is awful, we need to change it, but people have always been assholes, or at least for a really long time, which is why I am not sure we can.

[barbtries]

26. do you have a link?

i'd like to read about it. thanks

[noiretextatique]

28. here's a link

that's the dead boy in the picture. tragic.

http://www.dailycal.org/article/104551/arrest_made_in_berkeley_party_death

[barbtries]

30. thank you

i just don't get it. i don't get it. don't these people know that it could be them next time?

[noiretextatique]

31. amazingly, there are some great people in this world

in addition to some really pathetic cowards. that boy's family has suffered all these years. yes...it could have been their families wondering why no one would speak about their murder.

[mbperrin]

64. Now you have hit the nail on the head. Forget altruism, forget the "right"

thing, and all that. The truth is, if it is okay to watch while others do evil, what do you think will happen when evil is done to you?

That's right, everyone will just stand around and watch.

This no snitch crap is really just a cowardly voyeurism, a mental deficiency.

[jmm]

14. I'd hardly consider Vermont Thugville

Unfortunately this type of thing happens everywhere

http://www.timesargus.com/article/20081130/THISJUSTIN/811300299/1002/NEWS01

.....
Wiggin, 49, was allegedly beaten to death by her boyfriend, 41-year-old David Denny, who occasionally lived with her in the first floor of the home she owned at 186 College St. He has been charged with second-degree murder.

As an argument between Wiggin and Denny escalated on Nov. 10, one of the four college students that Wiggin rented rooms to on the second floor told police she heard most of the argument, including Wiggin's repeated calls of "help please" or "help police."

But police weren't called until days after Wiggin's death, prompting outrage from some residents who wondered why the student or her roommates hadn't notified police sooner.
.....

[DrZeeLit]

23. Yes, she was a colleague of mine and it broke our hearts. She was such a kind woman,

and it seemed was attracted to a man she thought she could help. So sad.

We were all completely dumbfounded that nobody called the police. These were not students who attended our college, but still... they were renting from Linda and she wasn't the type not to know her renters. She was probably more a mother figure to them than a landlord.

Because Vermonters do consider themselves more community-driven,... YES! we felt outrage....not just for the lack of concern by the "witnesses" but for domestic violence and senseless murder.... ugh!

[barbtries]

27. she might still be alive

that's horrifying.
after i finally broke up with an abusive boyfriend, my upstairs neighbor told me he had heard us fighting and knew that my life was in danger. his wife would not let him call the police; she said tonight she's dead tomorrow you are. my ex had shown the man his guns (which i would not allow in the apt).

for myself, i have called 911 in response to domestic violence happening within my hearing. more than once. i never felt personally afraid, maybe i should have. i've also known two people who moved across country because they were witnesses to murder and their safety could not be guaranteed in CA. and a woman who would not allow her son to tell the police who had killed his father because she was too scared of the perps. i felt then and still do, lock the bad guys up and get out of town.

[WriteDown]

10. Flying off the shelves....

[jmm]

12. Were they flying off the shelves when Kitty Genovese was murdered?

Not wanting to get involved isn't exactly a new phenomenon.

[derby378]

54. Does one of those shirts have fake bullet holes?

Disgusting.

[WriteDown]

57. Yep. nt

[Flaneur]

74. Another unintended consequence of the war on drugs.

For a different take on the whole stop snitching phenomenon, check out Ethan Brown's "Snitching: Informants, Cooperators, and the Corruption of Justice." www.ethan-brown.com

[superconnected]

17. I agree, citizen of they year in this story should be charged. What a loser.

When I was 16 I would have called the cops. I'm female but I'm sure my brother would have when was 16 too.

[Deja Q]

21. go to youtube and look up "Cam'rom snitching". That is the sort of FILTH people believe in.

And it's high time attitudes change, otherwise nobody has a right to criticize the ills of society, for they readily condone it! x(



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/19/60minutes/main2704565.shtml

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=cam%27ron+snitching+60+minutes&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=MUj7SpPNPJWSNprRgJIB&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CBcQqwQwAw#

[Gin]

24. the guy who admitted he watched for 20 minutes and did nothing...just

indicted himself...tells you how dumb he is....all these kids had to do was walk away and call the police.....what creeps.

[martymar64]

32. He's not a witness, he's an accessory

He should have his name be known to the family of that poor girl so they can administer a little informal justice on his cowardly ass. Personally, I have no problem with a death sentence, formal or informal, for every last perpetrator and witness that did nothing to stop this.

[NYC Liberal]

33. You want to kill even the witnesses?

The witnesses, even if they did nothing to try to stop what was happening or refused to call for help, are not to blame here, the rapists are.

And the death penalty is in no way appropriate for non-murders (though I don't think it's right in any case). Institute the death penalty for cases like these, and the rapists will have zero reason not to kill the girl after they rape her. If the punishment is the same, why not get rid of a witness?

[martymar64]

37. That is a good question

My answer is that by witnessing but not doing anything to stop this brutal gang rape, they are enabling it. To me, that is the same as approving of it. By putting them in the firing line, it will show them that the consequences of doing nothing are far worse than the possible consequences of "snitching".

This was a violent barbaric act from which this poor girl may never recover. If they had murdered her it would have probably been more merciful. This will haunt her and likely ruin her life forever.
I say absolutely no mercy should be given to the rapist dogs and their"witnesses" that let it happen.
And since the "justice" system will do nothing in any real sense except to give these evil cretins a relative slap on the wrist, then a little vigilante justice is something that I would gladly support. Hell, I would happily lynch every last one of them from lampposts, and burn their houses down for good measure as a warning to others that may think that raping is an idea of a good time.

I know it sounds very harsh, but imagine if this was your daughter, the light of your life. Would you elect to be understanding and spare them from swift and final punishment? Or would you want to make sure that they will never be able to harm anyone ever again?

Sometimes revenge is the proper solution.

[Xicano]

39. I can't agree with that.

Requiring witnesses under punishment of law to intervene will cause more problems than it will solve. Forcing someone into harms way is going to result in more people getting hurt, a net loss of witnesses willing to testify, numerous law suits after witnesses get hurt and some people actually getting away with murder. If people are forced by law to intervene you're gonna get people who'll use that law to justify a murder they just committed by telling the police the death was a result of intervention.

Bad idea to require people to take on police duties. I know it sucks, but, forcing people into that position will make things worse.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Xicano]

41. From reading your posts it certainly looks like you did say exactly that.

Here's a quote from one of your previous posts to give an example: "Personally, I have no problem with a death sentence, formal or informal, for every last perpetrator and witness that did nothing to stop this."

Being a minority I have to tell you that I find this comment a bit disturbing as well: "Hell, I would happily lynch every last one of them from lampposts"

The reason I find that disturbing to read here on the DU is because lynching from "lampposts" is language straight out of the Turner Diaries. I am not saying you prescribe to this book, but, that is a highlighted point made in that disgusting book. Its similar to seeing somebody fly the rebel flag. Are they flying that only to express southern pride, or are they flying that to express something else.

[martymar64]

42. I see your point in that regard and share your concerns

And it is indeed a disturbing thought that somebody like myself would be drawn to advocate vigilante justice against anybody. But, since you brought up the point, I must assure you that I am dead set against those who would subscribe to the Turner Diaries worldview and would fight them with every fiber of my being. Nazis and racists are the scum of the earth and it is to the detriment of this country that we did not totally crush and liquidate them at the conclusion of the civil war.
I only advocate vigilantism as a way to address especially heinous crimes like this in which the police will do next to nothing and that polite society will only turn their heads and say "what a shame". The justice system and the law enforcement community is totally impotent in dealing with the violence that is sweeping our country and until decent people take action, nothing will change. The methods of dealing with those are similar to those that used them for racial control, but the methods were also used to deal with Mussolini and other fascist bullies and murderers with great effectiveness.
If law enforcement was able or willing to take swift action against these vermin, then none of this would be necessary.
Our culture worships the vigilante, whether it is Dirty Harry or Batman or Bernie Goetz. The people of this country cry out for somebody to take on these killers and rapists that have no fear of the law. The only thing that they will fear is their own mortality. And if they know that somebody will take deadly action against them without regard to ineffective laws, then they will pause to think twice about their actions.
I would greatly prefer that people would not commit heinous acts like gang rape of little girls or murder and that vigilantism would not be necessary, but this is not a perfect world and the solutions will certainly not be perfect.
I guess above all my wishes are for the law to take more decisive action or to step aside and let justice be done.

[Xicano]

44. I am glad you gave me some clarity on these points martymar64.

I do appreciate the time you took to post this. And sorry for any misunderstanding, its just that its a sensitive subject.

Thanks.

:hi:

[okieinpain]

70. I'm 50 / 50 I believe they should hang those that we know are

guilty, but I wouldn't do it from a lamp post.

[NYC Liberal]

45. Here's the thing.

If it was my daughter, I'd want to murder these people myself and inflict horrendous pain and suffering on them, and make them feel what they did. But that's exactly why we don't have victims and the people close to them making the decisions here. That's why people who know the victim don't sit on the jury, or prosecute the case. The justice system is supposed to be about justice, not revenge. Otherwise we have a free-for-all. Who determines what crimes are ones which are deserving of death for the perpetrators? Look at the case of the kids who doused a 15 year-old boy with rubbing alcohol and set him on fire -- because he hadn't paid them back for a video game they'd given him. You and I might think that's horrendous but if we let people settle things like that on their own, that's what is going to happen.

You cannot have a justice system based on letting victims getting whatever revenge they want, because there are no standards that way. You might want it looking at a case like this, where the perpetrators are clearly in the wrong and the victim clearly a victim. But what about cases where it isn't so clear-cut? What about cases where the victim wants to mete out a punishment that is completely disproportional to the crime? We say, "Kill the rapist" and it sounds great. Rapists are scum, they deserve to die - easy. What happens when a mugging victim thinks that the mugger deserves to die, their house burned to the ground, etc.? Should we let them do that? Or what happens when a gang member, who is a criminal and a thug himself, is beaten up by another gang member and now wants revenge by cutting off his hands or something? It's not so clear-cut then and it all descends into chaos.

So I absolutely would want to do exactly what you talk about. But that's why we have courts and juries and a system that tries to stay as neutral as possible. There are plenty of problems with the system, but this basic premise of it - its goal of impartiality and independence from the victims and their loved ones - is sound.

[martymar64]

49. I wish I shared your confidence in our justice system, but i don't

Far too often, the role of the police and courts in the US has been more about protecting the property of the wealthy and well connected than about giving justice to working people and victims of violent crime. If a rich person is a victim of violent crime, then the police will move heaven and earth to catch the perpetrator, but if the victim is poor or of color, then police are nowhere to be found or are profoundly disinterested in finding the attackers. My outrage is a result of that lack of equality for victims by the police and our court systems. The stories you see on Law and Order are just that, fictional stories that have no bearing or resemblance to what is really happening out there. Justice may be blind, but for the poor and for minorities, it is also deaf and mute.

Theoretically, I agree with you about the system of justice, but the problems with it are too many and too large to be of any real remedy for our society.

[NYC Liberal]

50. It's not even a confidence in what we have now.

What we have now is a broken system. Our system doesn't deal in justice but deals in a mixture of race, class, and who-knows-who. It needs to be fixed. But what we have now is better than what would happen if it were to become a system based on revenge and an "eye for an eye" mentality. As I said, do you really want to let victims decide punishment? Or let their loved ones? Or the public? If that's what it is going to become then the whole thing breaks down. No justice is served in a system like that. In a system where it's "anything goes," the poor get screwed to an even larger degree. It'd essentially be the legal system version of the deregulated free market that led to the financial collapse we had last year.

What is the solution? I don't know. But the broken system stems from an attitude, not from a mechanical failure, so to speak. If it were matter of some loophole in the criminal statute or some corrupt judges or corrupt officials, then we could easily fix that. The real problem is the attitude that the poor don't deserve justice, or that they deserve a "different" justice from others. Until you figure out a way to fix that, to change that attitude, any system that you contrive is going to be flawed.

The mechanics of our system work fairly well. By that I mean that the premises of it are sound. The justice system should be impartial from the judge to the jury to the prosector. The biggest thing that we do now to prevent that is to not allow victims or their loved ones to run the show. Otherwise it's a free-for-all.

Do you really want a system like the one you describe? I'll tell you what happens in that system. People, victims, get angry about being wronged, and they want "justice." Well to a gangster, maybe justice means shooting a thief in the head. To the mother of a daughter who was raped and murdered, unspeakable acts of violence inflicted on the rapist is justice. Do both of them get what they want? After all, if we allow the mother of the rape victim her vision of justice, why not the gangster?

In the system you describe, we'll face the same problem that we do now because it doesn't solve the underlying problem of the attitude of a lot of the rich toward the poor. So, instead of the poor being sent to prison (where they can hope to seek redress, at least), the poor are now subject to whatever notions of justice the rich victim has. So instead of being sent to prison, the "lower class" burglar gets executed for trying to steal from the rich man.

[martymar64]

52. You make a thoughtful argument

Chaos is not a good situation, either. I would love for our system to work, in which those who do grievous wrongs actually are called to account for their crimes and that the police and courts act with complete impartiality. However, I feel that as long as people in police or the courts are subject to biases, prejudices, greed and other human failings, then there will never be a system of justice that actually works with any measurable success or impartiality. I feel that impartiality is a myth, the human condition reigns supreme. That is why theoretical political systems never work, be they capitalism or communism or liberetarianism, but that is for another discussion.

Your stated ideal of our justice system would be admirable indeed, if it worked. But it doesn't and never will. It makes me feel that citizens' only recourse is to arm themselves and be ready to defend their lives at any time, be it in school or at work or on the street.
It is a depressing thought that this it what we are being forced into by present circumstances, but if the police cannot or will not protect them, who will?
Under the present system, the rich and powerful will always be above the law and the poor and those of color will always be at the mercy of thugs and murderers with no recourse to actual justice, as opposed to a mere slap on the wrist.

It is just one more thing that makes me grieve for our country. I suppose for the sake of my own peace of mind that I should just quit caring altogether about what happens to victims and hope that maybe one day in the far future that somebody will get it right. From now on, whenever I hear about heinous crimes like this, I should just turn my head and ignore it when it happens to others and accept death and mayhem as just another inexorable fact of life in this country and arm myself to the teeth in case someone tries to come after me.

It's a depressing situation indeed for which there is no cure.

[martymar64]

55. A postscript to our discussion

I was a victim of violent sexual crime as a child and as you can tell, it is a very sore topic for me. It colors my outlook about justice because the perpetrator was never punished in any way whatsoever. So for me, justice is something I never received for the wrongs done to me.
Incidents like this brings back a whole floods of memories and emotions that I'd rather not re-experience and my reaction sometimes can be a bit extreme verbally for a normally non-violent person like myself. I apologize to you and everyone else here for that. My reactions are not something I am proud of, but the psyche and emotions are a tricky thing.

I completely understand your arguments and intellectually agree with them. But emotionally,the trauma I experienced will never let me forget that justice is merely an abstract that will never happen. At least not for me and that is something that I have to live with every day of my life.

I appreciate your opinion and your voice of reason, but I'm afraid I must end it here for my own emotional health.

Peace

[mbperrin]

66. Witnesses who did not report to 911 prolonged the crime. It went on

longer than it would have. That means they are now part of the act, and they bear the responsibility.

They are cowards, and because they stayed to watch, they obviously enjoyed the show. Sick and responsible. They deserve whatever karma brings their way.

[Gedankenaustausch]

29. I agree but with reservations

I think your point is great, there is a definite problem with the black community with police cooperation. But, I don't think Cam'ron would be considered a 'source.' I think the bigger issue here is the history of police brutality/mistreatment/arresting on b.s. charges and charging people who were witnesses when dealing with the black community. It should come as no surprise that blacks don't jump at the opportunity to cooperate with police, especially when the person is 16 years old and probably not well versed in the ways of the legal world, relying off of (false) knowledge passed down through his community/family about the police making trouble for blacks. He probably thought that he could have been charged as an accessory for being there. I doubt he was able to access the situation adequately. Anyone that was able to access the situation adequately would have called the police.

The kid did wrong, that's clear. However, attacking him and his community using videos of artists that haven't even had cracked the top 10 since 2002 isn't going to help make any progress. The problem of blacks not 'snitchin' is well documented. I think we're focusing only on one aspect of the problem and not attacking the problem as a whole.

[Berry Cool]

25. The sad part is that kids kill other kids for snitching on them.

I served on a jury once in which we convicted a teenager for shooting another teenager in the back. Reason: he'd snitched.

[NYC Liberal]

34. They may have had a real fear for their lives, even if they called from down the block

anonymously. I'm not say that's the case, but we don't know yet.

Of course - if they didn't do anything simply because they were just scared at the whole situation (not fearing for their safety), then fuck them.

[October]

35. But they took photos... cheered... etc.

This isn't just about being AFRAID of being called a Snitch.

[mbperrin]

67. Exactly. They are PARTICIPANTS in the crime.

All anyone had to do was leave and make an anonymous 911 call. No one could possibly find out who called.

They didn't. They didn't ignore the crime, they enjoyed it! They took pleasure in it.

[flvegan]

36. I am SOOOO glad I'm not that girl's father.

There WILL come a time that I no longer need his testimony in prosecuting anyone charged.

Yeah, they're not snitches. I got FAR better names for them. Fucking cowards.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CreekDog]

43. Being called a snitch can get you killed in some places

I don't know if that is what was on some of these kids minds though.

[quakerboy]

46. Mind your own

There was a discussion of cheating here not long ago, and a number of people advocated that other kids around a cheater should mind their own. That discussion sticks with me, and i guess it will for years. With this reinforcement, all the more.

[musicblind]

47. That is so sad. We need to promote the idea that being a "snitch" or a "tattletale" is a GOOD THING

which it is. Such behavior, when appropriate, should be rewarded rather than labeled as negative by such immature children. They may be grown men, and may carry guns, but the "don't snitch" movement is still an immature mindset. I'm not saying people should encourage children to run around for no reason with useless crap like "johnny picked his nose" but when it comes to serious violations, bullying, or another person putting someone's physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual health in danger then "snitching" is the heroes way.

[kiva]

48. I remember that thread - and there was one

about seeing someone steal...both were asking whether or not you would tell, and many people who responded said they would not. Same mentality - don't tell, don't snitch - that was operating here.

[Odin2005]

51. This is what happens when kids are punished for being "tattle-tales".

Sickening! :grr:

[WriteDown]

58. Pretty sure it has more to do wtih post #3. nt

[jmm]

60. So when I had to perform CPR and several people

including a couple of country music fans who I trained with told me I was a fool for getting involved can we blame country music too? When my mom witnessed a stabbing and was called stupid by numerous people for cooperating with the police did rap play a part in that too? A few mediocre rappers like Cam'ron are only a symptom of a problem effecting every community.

[WriteDown]

61. When country music stars start appearing in video's about not snitching...

or their fans start wearing stop snitching t-shirts, we'll know more. "Stop snitching" and "fear of lawsuits" are also two different phenomenons.

[jmm]

63. Again a few mediocre rappers like Cam'ron are only a symptom

of a problem effecting every community. If we could successfully ban sayings like stop snitching, which is only a manifestation of a fear of legal involvement such as lawsuits, lack of witness protection...it still wouldn't do anything about about crimes like this where witnesses don't come forward.

http://archive.thenownews.com/issues03/062203/news/062203nn2.html

[WriteDown]

65. I don't think you really understand what stop snitching is about...

It has nothing to do with lawsuits. Its about not being a "sellout."

[jmm]

72. I don't think you really understand the fear of retribution,

lack of legal protection, and other very real concerns about getting involved that leads people not to put their own potential wellbeing before others and fear becoming sellouts.

[Le Taz Hot]

53. He stood there and WATCHED

for 20 minutes? He didn't have a cell phone (since when does a teenager NOT have a cell phone surgically attached to their ear?). He was a-skeered. What? He couldn't find a pay phone? An open business? Borrow a phone? I don't buy what he's saying and I can't believe so many here on DU would JUSTIFY watching a brutal rape because he was a-skeered. Well, guess what? I'm sure that young lady was probably convinced she was going to die that night. For 2-1/2 hours. Fuckin' loser punks. That's OK. Little punk-ass WILL end up in the prison system one way or the other and the inmates will know EXACTLY who he is and treat him accordingly. I'm guessing there will be spectators. Maybe they'll take pictures.

[mstinamotorcity]

56. Whats cold about

this story is, if that had been one of their sisters or someone they loved in that defenseless position they would have wanted someone to intervene. And how do you go to a party with a friend and something like this happens. Was the friend in on this? Why didn't the friend call someone? And what type of young men are some of us raising were they have this lack of respect for women. And does anyone warn these young women about the dangers of drinking unattended beverages at parties? And do parents tell their kids that if something starts going south at an event that they are attending to get away and tell them so it can be reported to the proper authorities. Whenever are children go out to school parties, homecoming,proms,or neighborhood event, we should tell our children how to handle themselves in case something comes up or goes down. Teach them to look for warning signs. And how to get out of particular situations. I am sorry it has to come to this but it just might save a life. Peace and Love to DU

[David Zephyr]

75. Thougtful post and good advice.

This is just a very disturbing story on so many dimensions.

[mstinamotorcity]

76. Thank you very much

Glad you saw it let children and pre teens know the dangers of being a teenager. I have been working with children all my life. The best advice i can give to parents is to be straight up with your children. No we don't want to tell them things beyond age comprehension, but with all the negative elements laying in wait for the unsuspecting child from bad advice from peers who have no more life experience than they do. Bad advice from well meaning adults. When a parent doesn't know the answers they should seek out those who do and let their child see them research for the correct facts. That way your child will not be as quick to do things with out getting all the facts and answers to their questions. And they will know that if ever they want to know something they can get an honest answer from their parent. And encourage them to tell you any thing that makes them feel uncomfortable or weird.And no matter how bad or good they are you always love them and if they do something wrong never lie to you about it because you cannot not help them with lies. And if they have a punishment for something they do don't try to alleviate the punishment go through the consequences of their actions with them so they no that their is a price to pay for everything and doing the wrong thing could cost them their freedom or life. PEACE and LOVE toDU

[Scout]

77. according to some DUers

people who worry about what's happening to our boys and girls when it comes to sex and acceptable behavior, are "hand-wringers and pearl-clutchers"

Not you specifically David.

[qanda]

59. I understand where he's coming from

I witnessed my neighbor getting beat up by her husband and I called the cops. If I had to do it over again, I would close my blinds, put on some loud music and act like I hadn't seen or heard anything. There are no benefits to being a witness-- NONE!! In fact, all you receive is punishment. Punishment from the courts in the form of threats if you don't show up to testify, punishment on the stand from the defense attorney trying to make you seem crazy, punishment in the form of having to take off from work and punishment from the system when they convict someone and let them out a week later on $100 bond. Something needs to be done to better protect the rights of witnesses and make it worth their while to do the right thing. JMHO

Editing to add: If I had witnessed something like this, I would have called the cops, anonymously. I think every monster who stood around and watched this should suffer the same penalty as the actual participants.

[LanternWaste]

68. No honor amongst thieves...

No honor amongst thieves...

[Xithras]

69. The "No Snitching" culture is very widespread. I've seen it here on DU more than once.

There's a certain mentality that views all law enforcement as the enemy, and anyone calling 911 as abetting that enemy. It isn't just an urban black thing either. The mentality is widespread among many poorer communities, and in some anarchist circles.

[raccoon]

71. I figured that they just didn't want to be "snitches." Disgusting. nt

[DebbieCDC]

73. Don't like being called a snitch?

How about obstructor of justice? Like that title any better? Or maybe accessory before (or after) the fact? Whoo, those titles come with MUCH more baggage than "snitch". You'll see.

[Scout]

78. fucking useless pieces of shit cowards, everyone who watched and did nothing n/t