UC Prof: Bay Bridge Should Be Shut Down

[Newsjock]

Source: KTVU

Caltrans has weathered no shortage controversy since the September 8 opening of the S-curve section of the problem plagued eastern span. But on Monday a UC Berkeley structural engineer issued scathing criticism against the agency, calling the reopening of the Bay Bridge “criminally negligent.”

Professor Abolhassan Astaneh said ever since the crack in the eyebar was discovered during the Labor Day inspection, the eastern span of the Bay Bridge has been unsafe.

“You have to shut down this bridge immediately,” said Professor Astaneh.”There's no doubt about it.”

The S-curve controversy aside, the professor said the bigger danger is the eyebar fix.

He said the repair means the bridge is vulnerable and that it cannot withstand 85 mph winds or a 7.3 magnitude earthquake as required under federal transportation guidelines.

Read more: http://www.ktvu.com/news/21568061/detail.html

[slackmaster]

1. Sounds like a Muslim

Don't pay any attention to him.

[yellowcanine]

5. Why does he hate America?

[CreekDog]

2. I have never thought this professor was realistic about anything

I realize he's paid to think.

But that doesn't mean he's always right.

And it should be said that we don't automatically shut things down because they aren't up to *current* seismic standards. After the 1989 earthquake, we realized that the support columns on our freeways throughout the state were a vulnerability --but we didn't close all those freeways and overpasses, the state aggressively began to bolster them.

What's frustrating about the professor is that he says "shut it down" without any discussion of whether the rest of our system should be shut down because it doesn't meet current guidelines. Can BART withstand such shaking? No, not yet. Do we shut it down now? Is that even what Federal Guidelines require? So, the professor recommends actions to meet policy requirements and then apparently, doesn't even understand how those requirements are actually implemented.

It would be as if an air pollution expert said, we have unhealthy air on one day in some random city, therefore, shut down all industry tomorrow and ban all driving because there are violations of the Clean Air Act. Though while that would be a violation of the act, the action prescribed in that case is not how it is carried out, nor is it what the act requires.

That's the way I see his advice on the bridge.

[vicman]

3. If history has anything to tell...

it may be that the pylons in the bay are sound but little else is. The San Francisco highway leading in is what failed in the earthquake and the repair seems to be suspect now. Maybe we should look at what the contractors actually did in the repair.

[CreekDog]

4. Why would the pylons be safe? They are rotting and infested as we speak

Let me state it again: The bridge foundations in the bay are the weak link in the system.

The bridge isn't being replaced because of the effing eyebars, it's being replaced because the foundation is shot, it's outlived its useful life. The foundation of the bridge are almost 100 foot tall Douglas Fir timbers pushed into the deep bay mud and not only are they out of date in terms of design, critters are eating them and even at original strength, they are not stable enough to hold the bridge up in a major earthquake.

Why doesn't this expert get it? He's ignoring the elephant in the room. You could fix the S curve, you could replace the eyebar if possible and you'd still have this bridge on a rotting foundation.

To me, it's negligent that he raises this as an issue to close the bridge when it pales in comparison to the reason it's being replaced.

Which makes me think he's just an attention hound and that attention is compromising his reporting of the actual problems and which are most significant.

[vicman]

6. They did survive the earthquake

Do you have more recent information about their vulnerability? I'd like an update. Seems to me you're also concluding the bridge should be shut down. Maybe different reasons, but same conclusion.

[CreekDog]

11. You silly rabbit! It's not my conclusion, this was the conclusion of state engineers!

IT'S WHY THE BRIDGE IS BEING REPLACED! :banghead:

do you even realize that they left the western span standing and retrofitted it? why, because they concluded it could be strengthened.

the eastern span COULD NOT meet such requirements.

Second, why are you blithely stating "it survived the earthquake".

The earthquake was a 6.9, it was 70 miles away. This was actually much weaker than the bridge is required to withstand, the Hayward Fault just miles away (not 70!) can generate a 7.0 earthquake and the San Andreas, as close as 15 miles away can generate an 8 earthquake.

I guess what's bothering me about your post is that you so blithely ignore current studies done on the bridge, the history of why the bridge is being replaced and substitute your own observation that it survived the earthquake.

[groundloop]

8. "Experts" are a dime a dozen

No matter what the issue, there always seems to be one or two gloom and doom "experts" pop up and the media eats it up.

[vicman]

10. It's all abstract until the bridge falls, ain't it? nt

[CreekDog]

12. why are you seeming to agree with one expert?

and blithely ignoring the thousands of others working and studying this issue for decades?

i just don't get it.

[vicman]

14. I'm not agreeing with anyone

I'm just talking about the reality of what's fallen and what hasn't. The bridge seems to have been built well for the technology of the age. It was never meant to last forever. Sitting here in New Mexico (and loving San Francisco as I do) the only thing seeming to be "forever" right now is Prop 13 which ensures that the California government will never, ever have enough money to do things right, ever again. The bridge certainly will need to be replaced. The Golden Gate, too. But the folks in Southern California (not nearly so dependent on bridges as the godless hippies in San Fran), love their super cheap property taxes. I wish I could help you guys, but the citizens of your state are a perfect slideshow for why the greatest political experiment in the history of the world is finally falling on the sword of human ignorance.

[CreekDog]

18. True on Proposition 13, except I'm tired of it being laid at my feet

remember, it passed 31 years ago.

most people who voted for it are not voting any more.

and we have a majority of state lawmakers willing to do whatever is needed to solve the problem, but Prop. 13 set up a 67% requirement for new taxes (after slashing the old ones) and a 67% requirement for passage of the state budget. i doubt your state or any other could withstand such requirements.

as it stands, even with the onerous 67% requirement, we actually are only short a couple of legislators to actually get responsible budgets passed --most states faced with such a requirement would not even come close.

[vicman]

20. Not at your feet

but recent polling (check digby for info) suggests that Californians don't want to give it up. Don't see how you proceed with it in place. It just makes me sad, not angry.

[CreekDog]

21. i know you weren't blaming me

lots of people on DU blame all Californians for our current woes, not you.

makes me sad too, but also angry.

[pollo poco]

22. the Jarvis amendment

made us cry so long ago, when it passed. Typical idiocy.
It is very sad and stupid.

I think people should have to pass a test to have full citizenship rights. If gay people don't get em, why should stoopid people?

[CreekDog]

13. i would be okay with coverage of this guy's assertions, IF they provided context

which they didn't.

1) he submitted his own design for the new bridge which was not selected and has been running down the new bridge and Caltrans at every opportunity ever since. he has constantly said the new design will collapse and whatnot. they should report this.

2) i believe he even suggested the foundations of the current eastern span were not the problem, which flies in the face of a lot of study of the eastern span over 20 years.

3) they should have provided some background on why the bridge is being replaced and if they had even called one spokesman at Caltrans he could have told them, "look, before the S-curve and after, a major earthquake WILL DESTROY THE EASTERN SPAN OF THE BAY BRIDGE, that is what our studies show." The new bridge is being built to deal with that. The s-curve is not the weak link in the bridge, it may in fact, be stronger than the rest of the bridge.

[vicman]

17. Thanks for the update

on the Bay Bridge replacement project. It sincerely needs to get done. I fear for the state's ability to do it all the way.

[CreekDog]

19. I get all excitable

Sorry!

:rofl:

[phasma ex machina]

24. Interesting data about Douglas Fir timbers, thanks for sharing. nt

[icymist]

32. I agree. Being in Seattle we also ignore the "dangers" of our viaduct....

So-called experts say that a big quake could bring her down. Nah, we don't believe that despite that she's sinking at some spots. Hey, don't let that get ya down ma'am, just keep commuting....
:sarcasm: Nothing to see here Ma'am, please move along.....

[salguine]

7. Nowhere in this article does it say WHICH Bay Bridge.

[vicman]

9. Bay Bridge, Golden Gate?

Is there a major arterial I don't know about?

[CreekDog]

15. "Bay Bridge" is the common name of the San Francisco Oakland Bay Bridge

on a local TV news website, locals know the "Bay Bridge" is SF to Oakland.

The Golden Gate isn't really considered a "bay" bridge and is certainly never called that.

The Richmond San Rafael Bridge is never called the "bay" bridge.

likewise, the San Mateo and Dumbarton Bridges are called by those names.

[Garbo 2004]

16. Only one bridge is referred to as the Bay Bridge in SF area:

http://baybridgeinfo.org/

[AnotherGreekDemocrat]

23. Bay Bridge not being 'replaced.'

Fyi: The new bridge being built alongside the bay bridge is not designed to replace the current bridge. The new span is meant to ease the traffic jams between San Francisco and the East Bay. The Bay Bridge will stay open, after the new bridge is built. Cheers, from a regular lurker and seldom poster.

[CreekDog]

25. Wrong. Eastern Span *IS* being replaced

This is not being done to "ease traffic", once completed the old eastern span of the Bay Bridge will be torn down.

Replacement will not result in added lane capacity for the Bay Bridge (unless you are counting the bike lane which will only go halfway).

This is being done so that the Bay Bridge will be able to withstand an earthquake and function as a transportation link immediately thereafter.

I don't understand how you can so confidently state something so drastically wrong, so completely the opposite of what's actually happening.

:shrug:

That's harsh, but wow. :wow:

And you live in Daly City and say this?

You should check out http:baybridgeinfo.org

[SFnomad]

26. Not begin 'replaced'?

I don't know where you get your information from, but yes, the eastern span is being replaced. I drive across it every day. The double decker, cantilever eastern span is being replaced by a side by side viaduct and suspension span that will connect into the existing Yerba Buena tunnel going to the western suspension bridge. After the new bridge goes into service, the old eastern span will be dismantled.

[CreekDog]

27. and the profile says they live in Daly City

a local. :shrug:

[deepplaya]

28. Give Astaneh a sandwich board sign and megaphone and put him at the tollbooth

So, the bridge is falling down. So, a big wind may make it fall over.
What more engineering fun than trying to make it say up as long as we can.
That's the American way!
What the bridge needs now is a billboard at each end that says "Cross at your own risk"
I'll still pass for the adrenaline rush.......

[PHIMG]

29. A failure of this bridge would be a huge hit to the American psyche.

[TheWatcher]

30. It would be a disaster of huge proportions and far reaching consequences

But a huge hit to the American Psyche?

You can't even get them to care about anything outside of their entertainment/Propaganda Bubble long enough to even SPELL Bay Bridge.

Maybe if the Bridge was in an episode of "Real Stepford Wives of "Insert Name Of Unfortunate City to have to bear the burden of having yet another show about Plastic, irrelevant, douchebags here", and they MIGHT think about if or thirty seconds.

But that would be pushing it.

[PHIMG]

33. It would be a symbol for a country in decline.

[Grinchie]

31. 250,000 carsTimes $4.00 = $1,000,000 /day income... +/-

Do you really think that Caltrans could even consider shutting down such a great cash machine?

When they start handing out liability releases in the Toll Booth, that's when people should start getting worried.

[Retrograde]

34. Rebuild the Berkeley pier and bring back ferries?

I don't exactly disagree with him - there's no reason to think the one cracked eyebar is the only problem with the bridge. But unless he can also come up with a way to shift the Bay Area employment and population patterns so half a million or so people don't cross it everyday it's going to stay open. I'd like to see more money put into alternatives to the bridge, but meanwhile...

[salin]

35. When I lived in the Bay Area

The only bridge that really freaked me out was the Bay Bridge. It was an irrational thing (I hated the double decker aspect, and the post earthquake pics.) Fortunately I lived south of the city, so when I had to cross the bay I always used the two more southern bridges. It wasn't a bridge thing, for six months I cross the Golden Gate twice a day, and the only thing that bothered/annoyed me was all the tunnel honking before/after the bridge.